Instead of making an ITWL-only thread, I decided to make a general water launchers thread. I would rather promote all forms of water launchers rather than just one. It would be really cool to see a whole new class of weaponry debut on the field of battle and create whole new tactics for them.

First of all, you might be asking, what the heck is a water launcher? Well, it is neither a normal water gun nor a water balloon launcher. A water launcher uses power like a water balloon launcher, but shoots a solid stream like a normal soaker. The main purpose of water launchers is deadly strikes in just the right situations. In general, you get one good shot and then must either retreat or have covering fire to re-pressurize. Output can be made to be easily over 60x. You are basically shooting a firehose for a few seconds.

What options are there? Well, you can use pre-charging tech in a PCgH, simple air pressure in an ITWL, or a piston in a Super Cannon. Those are the three main designs which have come out so far. Improvements include the MS ITWL and Super Cannon II. All of these look/work different, but all do accomplish the same task.

What is the advantage to using a water launcher? These radically redefine the concept of the sidearm. No longer do you need to have a small gun for backup-style purposes. Now you can have a specially designed weapon for special uses. In stand-offs or ambushes, nothing will intimidate an enemy more than unleashing a giant stream of water that flies beyond the normal fighting range. Despite the ITWLs not being finished, I know the range will be huge. A pc of a water balloon launcher used as a water launcher can obtain 40ft range at a negative 10 degree angle. So think about a properly designed water launcher at 45 degrees!

The concept of water launchers is certainly not new. However, enough designs exist now to call it a new class of weapons, just as soakers and water balloon launchers are their own classes. Water launchers add a new dimension to the battlefield. New tactics and strategies can be created via their use. I personally will be really excited when I have time to finish ITWL and MS ITWL. The debut of a new class of weaponry on the hardcore level never fails to make a battle interesting. The debut of the Douchenator changed the way we will fight night battles from now onward. Heck, the debut of the 21K changed the way we fight any battle. However, unlike water balloon launchers, water launchers have the potential to be deadly effective anytime because leveling a wide stream full of power is different from shooting small water balloons into the air and hoping they hit their targets.

Viva La Tech!

Thanks for (finally) starting a thread about this, Duxburian. It's really appreciated. However, you might want to do a similar thing at SSC, while keeping the specifics, especially the ITWL, here at SM. No offense, but SSC might have a greater chance of sparking the popularity of these, especially since you've mainly been talking about your soon-to-come ITWL over there. You could post a link to this thread.

I like your idea of using this as long-range, wide-target artillery. The output, if you're comparing it to that of a fire hose, is simply too much and at too great a velocity for close-range shots. However, this can be even more effective than WBLs such as the Douchenator for suppressing fire way out in the enemy's formation--the range is huge for a "soaker," and what makes it better than a WBL is that it literally hurls a thick film or wave of water that should spread out immensely but still be able to cause immediate soakage. I've really seen your idea blossom in the past few days, and now I'm completely won over.

EDIT: So maybe you did start a similar thread at SSC...sorry about that :unsure: .

I'm speculating ranges above and beyond soakers, but not nearly as far as water balloon launchers. But then again, speculation is a bad thing, so I really shouldn't try to estimate ranges, I should hold off until actual testing.

Velocity is not any faster than a modded gun, really. I have yet to make anything shoot faster than my aging 21K. I wouldn't feel bad opening fire at ranges of 40ft or more. The story behind the ITWL is quite interesting. You see, I was tired of landing hits that were not good enough to be called kills. So I came up with a gun that could dump a giant amount of water over long range as a response. Instead of arguing and being bitter about hits, I started this beast so that its kills will be undisputable because the victim will be totally drenched.

Just remember, if you expect shots with such large output and possibly effective shot times, you will need an immense amount of water in the reservoir. I can only see this working with one or two shots per backpack (I know you dislike backpacks) or as a stationary weapon. Of course, these are estimates and may prove wrong.

This could be used, then, as an excellent base defence (I know you dislike bases) weapon, as that would allow for a large supply of water and because the weapon can repel any large-scale attacks due to its shear output. Clearly, this will require a backpack if used on the move, or could actually be a good option for the few soaker vehicles that have been proposed and for the even fewer such vehicles that have been made.

This sounds really cool. I hope this expirimenting goes well. I wouldn't mind having one myself.

Shoot it angled! You might have the farthest-shooting water gun ever! You could hold the record! :o Seriously, do you still have it? I'm suprised you haven't already shot it angled.

It doesn't work angled. It's basically a small WBL PC filled with water. When you angle it the air goes to the top and no water gets shot out.

Yeah, that's what I used to test the idea. The ITWL uses the inverted-T so that the air floats to the top and it can be shot at 45 degrees. I'm going to try and finish these on Saturday after the SAT or on Sunday.

So, how will you store the water for your ITWL (also on the 4100 WL)? I don't want to repeat myself, but you're going to need quite a bit of water for every shot or partial shot. Even a backpack will have quite a few shortcomings volume-wise.

Otherwise, I'm really satisfied with where your project is going. WLs have a great deal of potential, and they will definitely change the battlefield.

The ITWL is a special use sidearm. By 3-5 shots there won't be enough water to shoot again. So, you wait for a refilling opportunity. The enemy can't tell how much water is left, or if it is even pressurized. Faking it can go quite a long way. Especially for the MS ITWL, moving the inner ball valve could make it seem like you're preparing the next shot. Every weapon has a disadvantage, and the one here is capacity. They do use a ton of water. So you use them sparingly, only at the perfect moment with perfect positioning. Water Launchers are a skill-based weapon that teach the user patience and conservation. You need that in a 1HK war. But if you can kill every time you fire one, then it has done it's job. Say if you took 3 shots and got 3 kills. 3 is a lot, especially considering that sometimes the score doesn't go higher than 3. :rolleyes:

Do you feel they are safe? Would it be bad to be hit by one at close range? I'm beginning to want one. :P Will you post instructions on the new SM site when you can? This is the kind of thing I've been thinking about for a while. I'm looking forward to the results. You should take a pic or something to show their power, and to make us jealous.

I don't see how one could get even 3-5 shots out of this thing--unless, of course, you use some pin method like I suggested earlier to automatically stop the shot quickly. Of course, faking would be extremely effective with this, considering nobody wants to be looking down the barrel. You could even go to the point of not shooting (because the reservoir would be empty) while claiming that you're just saving your water--slightly cocky, but effective and valid.

Using up half your reservoir is no problem, considering the chance that you'll get a kill is so large (mainly because you're waiting for the best moment to do so). I see the best use for this as long-range artillery fire (practically out of sight) if the range is good enough, especially with the spreading wave, and also for repelling enemy attacks, whether you are at a base or not. Either way, there is a good chance that you'll hit a few people, and if you are firing at long range, then you can refill the ITWL. As you said, if the user is skilful enough, this weapon can yield some pretty crazy results.

Instructions shouldn't really be nevessary for forum readers, but I'm sure he will write an article.

How soon are you going to get a new drill and whatever else you need? ;)

Saturday afternoon/evening. After the SAT I and after my bike trip to Piermont. Instead of doing 20 miles, I now do 30-40. :rolleyes: I will write an article, but the thing is so blatantly obvious that you could make it without even knowing what the parts are called. I mean, it is a mere 8 parts, 7 if you don't count the PVC pipe itself.

Yeah, I guess detailed instructions aren't really neccessary (although you did include them for the Douchenator). However, I think everybody still wants to see pictures of it and, with less relevance, shot statistics/pictures of it firing.

The WL seems like a great idea as far as soakage goes;

A shot image, of a Douchenator (2 inch valve, leaking air, lower than 60 psi) shooting out water. If you can get that [shot] with a design like that, a well made one would be quite intimidating in a war.

I would hope for a slightly less spread and slightly more laminated stream than that. Fortunately, the ITWC will be designed with the fact that it shoots pure water in mind.

Thanks for posting the pic...although I can't really make out what is what :D

I believe that he put the water in the barrel for that shot. When the water is in the barrel, the pressure hits it and forces it to scatter everywhere. The ITWC has the water in the pc, so the stream will be laminated. Really really big, but still laminated. I can't wait for this to be done. Unless of course the recoil is bad. If you don't hold it right, you end up on the ground. :rolleyes:

As far as putting water in barrels, do it at your own risk. It worked for Some Guy, but Wetmonkey's shot back 20 ft and Nibordude nearly killed a friend when the Douche pc shot off. It doesn't even have to be water in the barrel; anything that the air pressure can't handle, such as a lot of heavy objects.

Welcome back Some Guy! Err... were you gone? You haven't posted in a while.

These would make AWESOME base defence. You could stick it through a hole in a wall and get everyone on the outside completely soaked!

I've done this before with my WBL, simply filling the PC with some water, pressurizing it, and then firing it downwards over a hill. There is minimal recoil, and it pretty much drenches everything. However the stream was far from laminated in my experience. I found it gave more of a shot gun effect, but still had a range of over 30 feet, and this is at a negative firing angle, so the range is likely to be more with an inverted PC.

Interesting...

I still don't see exactly how the design will look, but given previous experience of Duxburian's work, I'm certain that it will do what it says on the tin.

I haven't been around long enough (and probably never will be) to have anyone say anything like that about me.

I seem to believe that the air and water are mixed in the same chamber, and a length of hose extracts the water from the bottom?

On to something slightly different - What sort of output is expected? 50x? 100x?

Here's a rough design. Keep in mind that, ideally, you would want some sort of non-glued axis after the valve so that you can adjust the firing angle while keeping the PC completely vertical.

Wow, that design is very different! :P

I would post pictures right now, but I can't find my camera's USB cable! Arghhh....

Welcome to SM, joannaardway :D . Expect way more than 50X or 100X, as any homemade can easily obtain 50X--and with large PCs, their shot time is reasonable. However, they are puny when compared to ITWCs.

@ wetmonkey442: I had been thinking of having the water in the other leg of the L (or T), beyond the ball valve. That may not be as functional, but it would be easier to manage shape- and weight-wise, especially if you use a U instead of an L.

The problem with a sideways U is that it would be very awkward and bulky, much more so than a T. The inverted T is not bulky at all, in fact, it is easier to grip the gun with the T being there.

So what about the pictures? Did you finish? I'm very interested in this thing. B)

So does it look kinda like a WBL? Or different? And would it be light and small enough to carry as a sidearm?

^It is not quite finished. I still need to borrow a working drill for the schrader valve hole. The top of the T area also will be a bit shorter than that, since it is not glued yet.

A U shape would be more efficient for angled shots, and virtually the same for level shots. I don't think it would be too bulky or awkward.

My next one may implement a "partial U" with the top part half the length of the bottom. Then again, the ITWC is not designed to be used at 45 degrees as much as it is to score direct kills. It will be best used at a slight angle, like 20 or less.

Oh, so you have to use a bike pump to pressurize it. Do you just pressurize it and then get multiple shots with the valve? Or can you use it up all in one shot? Is that 3-inch PVC? And is that a ball-valve? Also, how do you load it with water? This looks pretty easy to make. Tell me how it works and how well and far it shoots, and I might just have to make one myself. :P

On the ITWC, you get one good shot and then must re-pressurize, unless you get the ball valve closed with enough air pressure left. On the MS ITWC, the shot is much smaller, but you get multiple shots.

It's 3" PVC with a metal ball valve and to fill with water you simply pour the water in through the ball valve. It looks like it would take a while, but remember, you don't fill the whole thing, in fact, more water than 3/4" is not good. The first shot of every tank is designed to be the best, second the second, etc. It is also meant to be fired just above level, hence an inverted T rather than U.

And I tried attaching an elbow to make a U today, and I did not like how it felt. Much too heavy and large, after all, this is a sidearm for my CPS 2500.

So it's a 1-inch metal ball-valve? I agree that a 45-degree shot would not be that useful for this purpose. It looks like it might be a good idea to have a funnel along when filling it. It also appears one might attach a strap to make it easier to carry as a sidearm.

This looks like it might have considerable kickback, though I have no idea about output. But the nozzle looks kind of small. How much water does yours even hold? Do you think it will have a stream or more of a riot blast? With all the pressure feeding that smaller nozzle, you'd think it would make more of a stream than anything else. But maybe not...

If it's meant to be used at a firing angle of 20 degrees or less, it won't be effective against many people, unless you're enemy commonly groups together. IMO, a water launcher would be be best used against an advancing infantry line, firing from the flanks, and hitting everyone.

Nice job on the build though! I have only one question, why did you use an invetered T? Why not just a 90 degree corner? It seems to me like the extra space it the back is kind of useless, and if anything, would provide an extra space for pressure to be exterted on water that has no where to go.

It is largely for the right arm to go on. The thing is very comfortable to hold, and it would be less so if it were an L. Plus, this can double as a nerf homemade or a water balloon launcher pc. So the extra space means extra air for those functions. I got this idea from a water balloon launcher pc in the first place. :rolleyes:

The nozzle is not that small. The pc I used to test the concept had a 3/4" valve and still produced a giant stream at 40 ft at a negative angle. The 1" ball valve was so amazing that I had to go for it. The 1 1/4" valves were really stiff, the 2" were really stiff, etc. This will have a stream. It may be quite a big one like the test pc produced, but it is still a laminated stream.

The test pc had crazy kickback, so the real deal should have it even worse. But as long as one holds it correctly, one will not be thrown to the ground like I was the first time I used the test pc. And I do intend on using a strap for this.

We've learned in wars not to send people too far from the group. Our team members usually stay close together for protection, but the ITWC is designed to make one kill at a time. It is designed to make that kill, however. Let's not get too greedy. The first shot can be long enough to hit more people and the low angles should help, since the stream velocity is very fast. The only problem is that you have to refill before the tank is 1/4" empty. The air to water ratio must be within a set range in order to get good performance.

I just think having a huge tower sticking up out of the gun isn't as desirable as a U is...but since this is much smaller than I had expected, I guess it isn't so bad after all. However, you will probably still have a problem putting that in a 41WC (a CPS 4100 Water Cannon? The name doesn't describe the WBL technology as much as ITWC does).

The T isn't even as good as an L, because as the PC empties, the water will be trapped in the back and only the air will be released. However, I'm assuming you don't intend to shoot when the PC is that empty anyway...

@ wetmonkey442: The pressure will be going back even in an L, as pressure acts in all directions. However, it's not like the water will be going to the back of the gun and then turn around and shoot out; it will just act in such a way that the pressure can only be release from the nozzle.

A U is worse than the top of a T when it comes to a huge tower sticking up from the gun. In fact, making even just part of the top half of the U makes the sidearm no longer a sidearm. It was so heavy when I tried it [empty, mind you] that I would never want to lug that around.

The ITWC should function fine for me the way it is. If you want to make a water cannon/launcher that maximizes everything without being bulky, feel free to do so. I designed this for a specific local purpose, and it should do its job quite well.

Yes, I'm aware of this. However an inverse 'T' shape means that you need more connectors which means you have more spots on the gun that have a chance to fail. An 'L' is stronger because it is a single piece. however, I understand and agree with Duxburian's agruement that the inverse 'T' would be more comfortable to hold, and also make it a more powerful nerf/potato gun.

Well, the next time I go to Lowes, I'll fit the U pieces together and see how it is. But then again, I'll also test the T, and possibly even the L, so I'll have something to compare it to. I guess I'll just have to take your word about the weight and the bulkiness for now...

Heh yeah. I'm sold to this "Water Cannon." I'll be taking a trip to OSH. I just don't quite get how all the peices fit together, and I want to hear how well it works. And it is that hard to drill, insert, and glue the shraeder (whatever!) valve? It seems like that is the weak point on it. And how many PSI do you inflate it to? And how long is this thing? It looks like it is not that long at all.

In the SM article, I will include a parts list, so if one has all the parts in front of them, where they go/how they fit together will be extremely obvious.

Insertion of the schrader valve is easy. Annoying, but easy. My old drill was terribly slow, so the hole took like 5 minutes. Screwing it in can also be annoying if it keeps popping out, but you can feel when you've hit home. The whole drill-screw in process takes 5 to 15 minutes if you do it right. And if the valve goes in straight and far enough, you need not glue it!

You can technically pump this up to whatever your pipe is pressure-rated for. 3" is typically rated at 260 PSI at 73 degrees F. To be safe, never go over 150 PSI in any situation, and not over 100 if it's cold out. You don't need more than 100 to be honest. Unlike most homemades, more pressure is not always better. You want the amount of pressure to be relative to the ideal ratio of air to water. So if the water is high, pump in as much pressure as possible! If the water is low, use less pressure to avoid breaking the stream up. Unlike an APH or CPH, the user always has to be aware of his/her ratios and to act accordingly. Each shot has to be handled in a slightly different manner. Basically, this gun makes you think, something that users don't do anymore, thanks to the manufacturers. Funny how I'm going in a more manual direction [ITWC] while companies are going in a more electronic direction? [Scorpion] I honestly prefer complete control even if it means doing a bit more of the gun's operation myself. If everything is done for us, how do we learn life's lessons? :rolleyes:

The APWL may make its battle debut tomorrow. I'm borrowing a drill today and finishing it up. If there are no air leaks tomorrow morning, it will be brought to the war. :ph43r: