This question often invades my mind. Is there a destiny? Is everything predetermined for us? Does everything happen for a reason? Is fate completely out of our hands, and what we will become iwill be in just a matter of time?

I'm trusting in fate...Though I'm beginning to believe that fate is what we make it. Which would mean that it is not fate at all. :wacko:

Tricky thoughts.

:think:

Well, I think there are definately things that happen for a reason, but I am not sure I'd go to say that it is not unchangeable. Then again, those things that "happen for a reason" are just things we experience and learn from, thus making the lesson we learn a "reason" for its occurence. Right?

My brain is starting to hurt. :wacko:

Heh my deepest appologies. My brain is hurting too... only that is from the brightness of the television--MATRIX! B) Neo...

Maybe I'd have more faith in fate or at least an inkling about it if I had faith in something....

The question which you, Beckeroo, have asked is as old as philosophy: free will, or predetermination? This question transcends religion, for it is quite possible to believe in fate if you are an atheist, or a communist, or indeed any follower of a deterministic philosophy....only you would call it by another name, such as "The inevitable course of history/progress" or "The doctrine of the First Mover Unmoved" (A little Philosophy 101 is helpful here) or even "Nature versus Nuture" or "Hard-wiring versus Dynamic Self-Programming" (and that brings us to the Philosophy of AI!)

Some basics: Let's say that you don't believe in any God or Religion, but you believe that you are what your genes are, and what your genes are is a result of evolution, and evolution is a result of chemistry, which is a result of physics, which began with the Big Bang - "The First Mover Unmoved!"
Then you are an atheistic believer in fate!

Or you believe that "Because of the Progess of Human Politics, and the movement of Society, sooner or later whatever any particular person does, my political view will prevail..." - then, you are a poltical believer in fate!
And the list goes on....and on....

No, interested readers, the final answer on that debate has not come yet, and I do not see it coming in the forseeable future. This debate began long before we were born, and will continue long after we are dead and gone...indeed, long after, I suspect, our great-grandchildren are dead and gone.

:nod: I believe everytihng you have said, Foxy, has covered everything! But none the less, it is interesting to think about. We can never know, because the end is just the end. Period. Our light blinks out and we do not have a chance to restore it. Whether or not that was the "right" moment for us to leave the conscious world is also something to think about. Would death single you out of you were to die in an instance but did not? Can you "trick" fate, so to speak?

All things are possible. It depends on your perspective.

I suppose so. So what is yours :)

i believe that there is no fate but you do what you choose. your life depends only on events that have happened, not events in the future. i think life is not decided but lived

I believe in God. I believe He plans some things, but it's up to you to make the most of it. Well, something like that.

^v^

In an unscientific way, that is what I believe, too...I believe that the Great Playwright in the Sky has already written the play, but whether that play is a hit or a flop depends upon how well we, the actors, interpret and speak the lines that have been written for us!

i personally believe only in the determination of "nature" (as a concept, not an entity) to reach perfection through evolution...

and as an offspring of that, the (subconscious) determination of humanity to reach immortality (which would be humanity in perfection)

if this is some kind of fate, then be it...

DL, on this topic, are you aware that there are some mystic interpretations to the meaning of the symbol of the cross as...the upright arm representing Good and Evil, Heaven and Hell at opposite ends, and the horizontal arm representing Man at the middle, the crossroads, free to choose between one and the other?

According to some Christian Mystics, this was the reason why the angels bowed down before Adam...for Adam was God's creation, given free will...free to choose between good or evil, whereas the angels, with the exception of one, could not do so.

Thus: Angels are fated to do good, whereas we mortals have the choice. And therein lies both our glory and our shame.

Nope, I was not aware of that. Interesting.

^v^

Wow you know Foxy, if you have not seen Dogma, you are sounding strikingly like it! I love that movie... you should watch. EVERYONE!

I believe in only one event that is fate, death.

To quote the movie Troy:

Everyone is fated to a death, but all the events that happen between birth and death are not mapped out. I do not believe that what I do tomorrow is and always has been mapped out (even though I know that I am going to be on a plane from 9:00 PM to ~11:07 PM, that was not always a certain fact to any one/anything.)

I think so as well.

Nice Troy ref!

Talking of fate....are you aware that statistical research shows that in any great disaster, the number of ACTUAL victims is always less than the number of AVERAGE-WEIGHTED POTENTIAL Victims?

Let me explain.

Let's say that on an average day, a train from X to Y will be carrying Z number of people.

But on the day of the train disaster...it is carrying always LESS than the number Z!

Stastiticians have been noticing this anomaly for 10-15 years now. 9/11 also proved it. (Yes, that's right, the number of people in the Twin Towers was LESS than the average usual for that time of day.)

Makes you think, doesn't it?

Ah and now animal instincts are brought in. Whether it be instinct, really, or fate NOT to get on that train with <Z people on it is a good thought provoking question. Now, is it because the person does not want to get on the train because he/she feels uncomfortable? Is it that some otther instance prevented him/her from getting on the train? Certainly there must be some factor "forewarning" them if they did not choose to get on, thus avoiding (cheating, if you will) death!

And there are always those people whom we may refer to as "psychics" that might have come across a "vision" of what would have happened that day, preventing one or many from traveling on the train. And whether or not it is true or if we believe them, something in our head gets tweaked and we figure "eh, well, I guess I won't risk myself today." Self preservation wins again!

it's all about luck, really - bad and good luck (for the individual)

So I shall continue to sneer at the ass-trological columns in the newspapers, while still holding on surreptiously to my lucky rubber ducky

hah good plan Foxy

As for destiny, I do not think the future is already already planned or worked out for us in anyway. I don't believe I arrived where I am through some great plan. I got here by making choices. Some good ones and some bad ones. I choose most of my own roads and feel I have gotten about what I have given.
But if I think of it in a more abstract way, then there were little unforeseen tricks thrown in there from time to time that seemed out of anyones control. :shrug:
I guess in the end, I think it does not matter what one thinks of destiny if we are doing out best at all we do and make as many wise choices we can. As long as we enjoy our today's and our moments, then we are living our destiny of now.

My advise, Don't worry about it, have dessert.

Easily done :yummy:

I dont think there is anything close to fate. We are free to make any choise, to change anything about our life for better or worse when we want.

Don't be late - you may miss your fate.

(Dfoxy Ko'an)

Even God's fate can be changed according to freewill. That's the whole point of being human. Some fate cannot be denied, like the fate of beginnings: where you were born, who your parents are, your race, background, etc.. the fate of endings can be changed at will.

Fate is a loose term meant to describe that which is the result of a continuing pattern. If you live a life of hard drugs and drinking, your fate is an early death and few accomplishments. Give up those habits and strive for a better life, and the fate is changed.

I think the fact that 30,000 people in the towers on a typical morning was reduced to about 9000 is more of a coincidence, and a suspicious one at that. :think:

Aha! Now comes the revelation....Brutus is the long-lost love child of Oliver Stone!!!

how could oliver stone ever LOVE anyone - for true love is based on trust... and i think that oliver stone even distrusts his mum... "oh - thank's mum, for the nice cup of cocoa you made me *seals envelope with sample, adressed to the next CDC*"

nah - that does not compute...

Well, you see, it seems that in 1947 before he was even born, an Alien Ship appeared in the sky over his mother and abducted her. and removed two ova - one of which became Oliver, and the other which was kept by the ship....which later crashed into area 51. There the Air Force had it first, but due to a secret Navy spy at the base the ship was switched inside the hold of the demobilized Battleship Iowa, where the ova in its special container was extracted and sent to the Naval Medical Labs....only to be hijacked on the way by the FBI which was pretending to be the CIA and sent to J.E. Hoover's special lab constructed under the New York Subway. There it was the subject of a gun battle between the FBI and the Opus Dei, who on the personal orders of Rome snatched the ova, and sent it to the Vatican....but there it was taken by the Papal father himself, only it wasn't him, just a clever CIA agent looking like him who was really working for the KGB. The KGB impregnated the ova with the first nocturnal emission of the young Stone, who during that wet dream discovered all the conspiracies of the world thanks to the tele-empathic bond between him and the ova...and that is why he is both the borther AND the love child, and you are now reaching for a bottle of aspirin.

makes perfect sense to me...

If that's the case you can take my place at the ass-ylum.

sorry - i didn't know, that you have a mASSive disorder - didn't mean to make fun of you :(

My mASter is baiting me with taunts, methinks...hee hee

To prove my point a little bit, that flight was delayed and I did not get home untill 12:32. Not even a piece of paper can tell me exactly what will happen in the future.

I dont believe in fate i meen who controls your life and what happens to you?? You or some mysterious person that doesnt seem to excist?

Take a look at the parallels between the Lincoln and Kennedy assassinations, then.

Well it there is a thing such as fate.....it can kiss my arse.