I've a holiday Monday, and since I've never seen it I decided to finally watch THE EAST IS RED. I decided that if I was to do it properly, I should watch SWORDSMAN & SWORDSMAN II first. I've watched them both before, but it's been years and the discs I watched are upgrades (remastered picture/sound) from my original Mei Ah (I'm pretty sure) discs. The subs for the IVL/Fortune Star SWORDSMAN disc were pretty good, the SWORDSMAN II Mei Ah disc not so much (I wonder if they just recycled the subs from the older edition (I've still got that edition somewhere, maybe I compare someday just to satisfy my curiousity).

Upon re-viewing it (SWORDSMAN Saturday, SWORDSMAN II today), I can see how SWORDSMAN re-newed the wu xia genre that had been moribund since the end of the Shaw era/beginning of the eighties martial arts HK golden age. I just can't think of many swordplay movies (off the top of my head at least) made during the eighties. I suppose A CHINESE GHOST STORY might qualify, but other than that (and that's late eighties) I'd have to do some research.

I'm pretty sure I originally watched the first two movies months (years?) apart. Watching them back-to-back made it easier to realize that 1) Wow, SWORDSMAN II plot really isn't just a rehash for SWORDSMAN and 2) keep track of who was who, since all the major characters the two movies share were recast for the second movie, except for Blue Phoenix (well, maybe some others, but her for sure).

Sam's good in the first movie (he sings several times, him being Sam Hui, after all) and he seemed fine with all the fancy moves, but I guess they wanted someone more physically adept (or was it a matter of time, money, etc..) for the sequel. Jet kicks ass in the sequel, though I think that Sam is still the better actor. I liked Fennie Yeun (Blue Phoenix).

None of the sword play/wu xia movies today seem to have the energy these two movies or movies from the same era, exhibit. CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON, HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS, THE PROMISE, FORBIDDEN KINGDOM all seem lethargic compared to these movies. They are prettier, but that's small recompense.

Plot wise I'm wondering what became of Jackie Cheung's toady? He had the scroll at the end of the first movie? Are we to assume he sold it to the highest bidder or that Asia or Wu took it from him?

This has probably been answered elsewhere, but was Uma Thurman's Kiddo character in KILL BILL named after Kiddo in these first two movies (don't know if she's in the third, I'll find out tomorrow).

Just curious -- have you seen Ann Hui's Romance of Book and Sword (with its part 2, Princess Fragrance) (1987)? My favorite post-King Hu wu xia (despite an obviously tiny budget -- which shows occasionally).

SWORDSMAN III: THE EAST IS RED is easily the greatest Hong Kong movie ever. Well, one of them. Let us know what you think. :D

Seen it? I haven't even heard of it. Still so many woeful gaps of knowledge. Are either available on dvd? Were they the right movies at the wrong time?

Brian, I'm trying to keep my expectations in check. I wonder though, I can totally see Asia surviving the fall, but not the tons of the stone fortress that would have landed on top of her. I'm guessing it's resolved in the same way a forties serial cliffhanger was. :P

Hello,

Some general observations. First, I would argue the 1980s prior to "Swordsman" was the heyday of wuxia adaptations--just not on the silver screen. YesAsia is now offering many of the seminal TV adaptations from the period, thirty years after the fact, for the first time with English subs. These programmes first introduced people like Chow Yun-fat, Andy Lau, Stephen Chow, etc. to the viewing public and set the stage for the revival of interest in martial chivalry in the 1990s and beyond. If one insists on pointing to one seminal movie event, I'd be more comfortable with affixing credit to Jet Li's "Shaolin Temple" or Tsui Hark's "Zu, Warriors from the Magic Mountain" as trend setters instead of Sam Hui's "Swordsman." Also, don't forget the importance of "[Traditional] Culture Craze" in the PRC at the time--that is, the post-Mao, pre-Tiananmen milieu. It was then when wuxia novels were un-banned and interest in things outside the Eight Model Operas and socialist realism blossomed.

Second, the heyday of wuxia publishing in Hong Kong was the 1960s and 1970s. Martial chivalry, however, was supplanted by two other genres towards the latter half of the '70s: science fiction and romance. This was due, ironically enough, to Taiwanese wuxia novelist Ku Lung's (Gu Long) stylistic innovations. Ku, who was influenced by Ian Fleming's James Bond novels, pushed the genre away from traditionalist myth-making towards existential thriller. Ku Lung along with Ni Kuang's prolific output created demand for sci-fi and romance novels. What was popular dictated what was adapted for the big screen. When wuxia was big, studios cranked out wuxia. If you look at late 70s and early 80s movies, you'll notice a dearth of wuxia with more emphasis placed on--wait for it--sci-fi and romances.

Third, I think its unfair to wuxia as a genre to take Jin Yong's _Smiling and Proud Wanderer_ (Xiao'ao Jianghu, sometimes translated as "State and Divinity") as the standard of what the genre ought to be. It's one of the high points of the post-1949 "New Style" wuxia novels. Adaptations based on it should be considered exceptions rather than the rule to the state of the genre's quality. I should hope other wuxia movies are very different from "Swordsman"--it represents and unusual apex that isn't readily reduplicated.

Of note, "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" based on Wang Dulu's novel of a similar name, was one of the high points of the pre-1949 "Old School" wuxia novels. Stylistically, it should be quite different from "Swordsman." Many of the literary innovations of New School had yet been invented--particularly pacing and the way martial feats were described (and therefore adapted?)

The other movies cited by Terry aren't wuxia adaptations but are works that feature a mainland connection. It should be noted that martial chivalry was banned there from 1950 to 1980 (and, believe it or not, was also banned in Taiwan for much of the 1950s.) Without "New Style" wuxia influence, the preoccupations and style of mainland wuxia are substantially different. Films like He Ping's "Swordsman of Double Flag Town" and Zhang Yimou's "Hero"--with their de-mythologising agendas--are probably standard bearers of that style of continental wuxia.

This leads me to my final point. What many of us know as martial chivalry today--both films and novels--is in fact a very small segment of the genre heralding from the "New Style" period where Liang Yu-sheng, Jin Yong, and Ku Lung reigned supreme. Moreover, Shaw adaptations of their works probably shouldn't the cited as representative examples of the field as a whole. Try to see how martial chivalry evolved: Pingjiang Buxiaosheng (Xiang Kairan) and the introduction of realistic martial arts terminology (he could have written the screenplay for Jet Li's "Fearless") ; Huanzhu Louzhu and the introduction of cosmic significance (he could have penned the Star Wars films with its talk of "the Force" vs "the Dark Side"); Bai Fan who coined the term "wu lin" (his style could have produced something like Johnny To's "The Mission"); Wang Dulu where the hero kisses the girl (instead of riding off into the sunset to meditate atop a distant mountain top); Liang Yu-sheng and Jin Yong for their meticulously researched tableaux and psychologically rich characters (Liang wrote women well; Jin, the men); Ku Lung's style in spades (he could have penned "Fulltime Killer"); Hwang Yi and the introduction of sex scenes(!) to wuxia (unlike Ku Lung's suave heroes, Hwang's swordsmen really got it on with teahouse wenches and bling'ed out courtesans); etc.

Louis Cha's work is but one point on an long, evolving continuum and it's probably asking to much for the genre as a whole to conform to his sui generis accomplishment.

Yi Lee, can you give some examples of the Hong Kong science fiction movies from the late 70s and early 80s you're referring to? I know of a few in the 1990s, but I can only think of two pre-1990: SUPER INFRAMAN (1975) and I LOVE MARIA (aka ROBOFORCE, 1988). And maybe ACES GO PLACES II (1983), if you stretch things a bit. (Hey, it's got robots in it, right?) And there's a Shaw Bros. film from 1984 I still haven't seen that's supposed to be sci-fi...TWINKLE TWINKLE LITTLE STAR (1984).

Hey Brian,

I'll have to get back to you if you want something really detailed but when I was speaking about sci-fi and romances, I was thinking primarily of the Wesley adaptations based on Ni Kuang's books and all of those Qiong Yao "weepies" starring Brigitte Lin.

Hello,

I'm not really knowledgeable about sci-fi but I think some people's curiosity will be piqued by the following link. See:

http://danlai.hk/2005/12/01/mr-kwan-vs-alien/

At this point in the conversation, if one were interested in following the sci-fi lead to an informed end, one ought to page August Ragone. I know next to nothing about kaiju and if there was a sizable number of these made in Hong Kong and Taiwan, I'm sure he could shed more light on them.

The Kwan Yu pic makes me recall that Cherie Chung was in a number of sci-fi influenced films--"The Postman Strikes Back," [Superman homages] "Descendant of the Sun" and "The Flying Mr. B," and so on. Prior to Joey Wang's ascent as HK's definitive supernatural damsel, Cherie had a strong slate of sci-fi/horror/supernatural roles that showcased her well as that special gal slightly beyond the reach of all but the most persistent mortal men. How times have changed!--the best we can do now is Zhou Xun in "Ming Ming," a gal whose even thinner than Maggie Q and sounds like she's been smoking cartons of unfiltered lights since age six. Good actress? Yes. Attractive? Yes. But someone who could inspire a protagonist to throw caution to the wind and strap himself onto a rocket ship to avert alien Armageddon? Probably not.

It's funny. Sci-fi and post-"New Style" wuxia are all the rage right now in terms of popular literature but to my knowledge neither have really inspired a wave of film adaptations. Producers seem intent on sticking with the stalwarts of Jin Yong, Ku Lung, and Liang Yu-sheng or coming up with poorly thought-out box office (mis-)calculations like "The Forbidden Kingdom" and "The Myth." Technology exists to do justice to Huanzhu Louzhu, Zheng Zhengyin, Zhu Zhengmu, and Ni Kuang but no one seems interested in the prospect.

Ann Hui's Romance of Book and Sword/Princess Fragrance duo were on DVD -- but these are long out of print. The film remained available in decent enough subbed VCD form until fairly recently, not sure if the VCDs are still in print.

Oh, where to start? THE EAST IS RED starts with a recap of SWORDSMAN II which I don't think was really necessary. They were released the same year, so it seems like an odd choice, since SWORDSMAN II didn't have one and there was about a two year gap between it and SWORDSMAN. Maybe the money people made them stick it in.

Brigitte was phenomenal and Joey was no slouch either. Viewing them back-to-back like this it's easy to see how the tone went from light & playful (with a touch of seriousness) to melodrama (with a touch of playfulness) to tragedy. I know Asia's name really translates to 'The East' or 'East', so THE EAST IS RED is an ironic title for the movie. I can see why SWORDSMAN was dropped, because the characters not in the movie and there's not a whole lot of actual swordplay; most of the physical attacks are chi based.

Brigitte's Asia the Invincible is the heart of the film, an anti-hero/heroine. It seems to me that Asia wasn't played as a straight eunuch. That the sacred scroll techniques altered his physiology more than just becoming an eunuch would? Asia's downfall is that he's out of balance. It was easy to see that where Asia went, chaos and destruction followed. Also telling was Koo's admonishment that while Asia was a great martial artist, he/she would never be a greater leader.

I guess Stan Lee has said it best, "With great power there must also come — great responsibility!"

Fair enough, I agree with them being influences, but I think my point is still true. Where's all the swordplay/wu xia movies during the mid eighties? ZU is '83 and SHAOLIN TEMPLE is '82. There wasn't a real resurgence of swordplay/wu xia movies until after SWORDSMAN and it's sequels.

Yea, I was concentrating so hard on cinema I forgot about the classic TVB adaptions (and I do own all of them, the one's with English subs, currently released). I agree with you about them helping set up the nineties cinema revival, but they may have also been one of the reasons why the genre suffered on the big screen during the eighties.

To Mr. Camp:

There's only one other sci-fi HK flick I can think of from the '80's---it's called FLASH FUTURE KUNG FU aka HEALTH WARNING (1984) though the IMDB gives its release date as 1982. It's not all that,but very interesting for its at a strange,weird futuristic look and a rare starring role for Shaw Bros. heavy Wang Lung Wei (who revs up some good fighting scenes as usual).

To Terry:

Here's some good swordplay films form the early '80's--DUEL TO THE DEATH, and WOLF DEVIL WOMAN, MATCHING ESCORT & MIRACULOUS FLOWER, all directed by star Pearl Ching Ling ( IMHO, the latter film is the best out of those 3---I haven't seen the other 3 she's listed as having directed.) Also the action packed period piece JADE DAGGER NINJA (1984) is most def worth a look, just for the swordfights alone.

I just got back into old-school kung fu myself with the recent purchase of a couple off cheap VHS tapes---A 1974 actioner titled RUMBLE IN HONG KONG aka POLICE WOMAN--with a young & cute then-unknown Jackie Chan as a merciless thug) ANGEL FORCE (a good Moon Lee actioner) JACKIE CHAN'S CRIME FORCE (aka AMAZON COMMANDOS, which Chan is actually nowhere in---there's just a 10-min showing of what looks like a T.V. show with him fighting for 2 seconds in it, but it cuts off when the real movie starts) and Jackie's own classic POLICE FORCE w/big slam-dunk style fights, the smashing up of everything/everyone within a 10-mile radius and all that made a Jackie Chan flick always great fun to watch.

I also can't wait to see THE FORBIDDEN KINGDOM--even though I've read the posts about it, just the thought of seeing Jet & Jackie go at it is enough for me to want to see it, even if y'all say it's lame (which it probably is, given Hollywood's track record treatment of anything to do with Chinese history.)