Okay, I’m moving this discussion out of the “Charles Bronson’s Back” thread because I think the problem I had is serious enough for its own thread and I want to get some reactions from Eurocult buffs familiar with these issues. I bought the new Blue Underground release of VIOLENT CITY (apparently a reissue of the Anchor Bay release) and was struck by the legend on the DVD case (and also seen onscreen prior to the movie on the disc) that says:

“This presentation of VIOLENT CITY is complete and uncut, featuring scenes omitted from all previous English language releases. Because these restored scenes were never dubbed into English, they are presented here in Italian with English subtitles.”

As I watched various scenes shuttle back and forth between English and Italian, often in the middle of a dialogue exchange, it struck me that scenes I remember from the all-English TV print (the source for the previous VHS edition of this film), the only version I’d seen before this, were being shown here in Italian only.

So, when it was finished, I dug out my VHS copy, a legit pre-record released as THE FAMILY, and compared various scenes. And I quickly learned that several scenes that had indeed been dubbed into English were being shown in the new DVD in Italian only. Which means that the explanatory legend I quoted above is a bald-faced lie.

One significant example: the scene in the bayou where Bronson holds a gun on Ireland and she begs him to make it quick because she can’t stand physical pain. She has what amounts to an important monologue here and it’s all in English on the VHS tape and all in Italian on the DVD.

I was furious. This is unacceptable to me. Does anyone here know of any possible explanation for this?

This is only the second Blue Underground disc I’ve purchased. I doubt I’ll buy anything else from this label again.

I would much rather have a DVD of THE FAMILY, the original theatrical cut as released here in the U.S. The back-and-forth between English and Italian in this edition is very annoying and essentially ruins the film for me. The indifferently dubbed Italian, by voices who sound nothing like these actors, is just as bad as indifferently dubbed English on Italian, Japanese and Hong Kong films. Besides, few of the added scenes, those that really WEREN’T in the original cut, really add anything to the movie. It really wasn’t worth all this trouble.

Or, you know, a mistake. An egregious one, even.

I don't know the DVD, but if there are indeed scenes on it that weren't in the original English dubbed cut, I can't see a "lie" at all in the quote from the cover. The note might not be the most precise but it certainly is not a lie.

My Anchor Bay (AB) DVD has blurb on the back that like the Blue Underground (BU) version states:


"This presentation of VIOLENT CITY is complete and uncut, featuring scenes omitted from all previous English language releases. Because these restored scenes were never dubbed into English, they are presented here in Italian with English subtitles.”


My guess is that BU erroniously relied on AB's prior release when it used the same statement on its current release. EuroCult fanatics know that BU has been re-releasing many of AB's prior titles, and I'm sure they've been licensing and porting over many of the same transfers AB used, though I believe BU's new two-disc release THE LIVING DEAD AT THE MANCHESTER MORGUE aka LET SLEEPING CORPSES LIE is supposed to be a new remastered version.

Though BU's info is obviously wrong, is it possible that the elements used for the AB and BU DVD releases were the best elements available, or that a print of THE FAMILY may no longer exist or is too damaged or costly to repair, regardless of their statement about the transfer, so that they had to include some lines of dialogue that had been dubbed into English for THE FAMILY, but now are only available as Italian dialogue in CITTA VIOLENTA?

Sorry that you were disappointed with the presentation, Brian. I guess I've become so accustomed to watching many of my favorite Spaghetti Westerns, Gialli, Polizieschi, Mondo and EuroErotica films - due to the international casts, post dubbing of the dialogue, and different versions with different running times and scenes for different audiences- with people, quite often, obviously speaking in a different language than the DVD's audio track and with DVD releases that switch back and forth between languages when attempting to release a "complete" version of a film.

Other times we are only offered one language, quite often English here in the States.

For example Lionsgates' recent DVD of HONOR AMONG THIEVES aka ADIEU L'AMI, starring Bronson and Alain Delon, would definitely play better in French. However, the recent release of the DVD only has an English track, despite the fact that the film takes place in Paris and Bronson, as a former French Foreign Legionnaire, should speak fluent French, albeit with an accent. The film's English track is a bit jarring and some of the translations like a child's doll saying "papa gone" when its string is pulled, when it's more likely something like "daddy go bye-bye" is a bit awkward.

Though a friend and I, who watched the with me, have been walking past each other at work the last few days saying "Papa Gone!" :D

You should send William Lustig an obscenity-laced e-mail. Because, you know, he'd send you one.

That guy's a maniac.

I also hear he's a vigalante! Sometimes, he even likes to dress up like a cop.

Well, it is possible that the materials available to Anchor Bay for the scenes in question did not include the English dub track, for whatever reason, but I find it hard to believe that nobody at AB even bothered to check the earlier release version. Hell, I would have lent them my copy, for cryin' out loud. They could have found some way of digitally transferring the soundtrack for those scenes. If they did, in fact, screen the earlier version, then they would have known some of those scenes had been dubbed into English, making their statement on the DVD case an outright lie. If they didn't check, then they're guilty of criminal negligence or just plain sloppy research and preparation--just as bad, in my book. :angry:

I'm with Brian here. Such switching between languages totally takes you out of the film. I'd much rather have the extra scenes included as that, just extras, or at least have the option of watching the film in its long or short version. I feel the same when, say, lesser VHS-quality inserts are put into an otherwise high quality transfer; it's good for research purposes that people can see longer/complete versions of films but as a viewing experience, for me these have little appeal.

I have the old AB DVD of VIOLENT CITY but I confess I've never watched it. I used to have the Japanese LD, and from what I recall that was 100% in English but not sure what the running time was; I never bought the Japanese DVD (which is now OOP) so I'm not sure which version that contained...I'll try and check on it.

When Anchor Bay released CUT AND RUN in a composite version, they claimed that the restored scenes had never been dubbed in English; soon after the disc streeted, someone posted that the HK VCD of the movie included these same portions in English.

When these composites first started appearing, I found it to be a great idea. Now, I'm finding them more and more distracting and agree that it is particularly irksome with VIOLENT CITY.

On the other hand, I wouldn't have minded so much if Jill Ireland's dreadful performance had been entirely replaced with the Italian voiceover artist.

Maybe we could have "Director's cuts" of all Bronson films with Ireland's part either removed or revoiced, as she was undoubtedly forced upon them by the star? All except Michel Winner who was just as taken by Jill as Charlie was. I guess the likes of Sollima may not have been aware (or should I say, not as aware as a director whose first language was English) how bad Ireland was, though I find her very presence on-screen to be a major put-off; THE VALACHI PAPERS is one film I recall suffering badly in that respect.

Anyway, I just checked and the cover of the Japanese DVD gives a running time of just 90 minutes. It's a non-anamorphic presentation so undoubtedly utilises the same transfer as the laserdisc; due to lack of retailers selling LD's these days the latter would now be extremely hard to find.

Here's the stylish Japanese poster for the film:

I admit her performance is one-note. Her character really only starts to get interesting at the end, in that scene with the lawyer just before she enters the elevator and...well, you know. I wish they'd introduced that aspect of her character a little sooner and given her a few more good scenes like that. And, truth to tell, Bronson's performance is pretty one-note as well. I've always said that the worst thing to happen to Bronson the actor was that he became a star.

Still, I like Ireland in the film. Maybe it's those '60s fashions. Maybe it's the British accent and that beautifully clipped tone of hers, matching her sharp, pretty features. Probably, it's the Morricone music underscoring many of her scenes that gave her closeups some real power when I first saw this film in a pan-and-scan print on a b&w TV set some 30 years ago. (The film played much better for me then and hasn't really held up well when I watched it years later, first on VHS and now on this DVD.)

Besides, I have a soft spot for Ireland stemming back to seeing her on "The Man from U.N.C.L.E." back in the day when she was the wife of that show's co-star, and everybody's favorite on the show, David McCallum (Bronson's co-star in THE GREAT ESCAPE).

Who'd have thunk it? A Jill Ireland fan on Mobius! :o

Brian:

I feel your pain with regard to the subtitling of various scenes in VIOLENT CITY. I was all set to show this to my cinema club, as they enjoy all things Bronson, but many of the residents at my gig don't have the patience for all of that back and forth, nevermind the taxing of their eyesight. Indeed, I now file this under the same column as Dario Argento's DEEP RED, which also shifts between dub and subtitle from time to time, as films I'm least likely to screen for family and friends for fear of the complaints about being pulled out of the narrative by the abrupt changes.

As for Bronson's acting, I think someone should examine the quality of his acting, or degree to which he made an effort, during the time Jill Ireland was in his life. He actually did some good work late in his life and after she had passed. Perhaps marital bliss led to career complacency.