Title: Argento Discs: Someone, Anyone
Description: Help.
Chris Stangl - November 27, 2007 12:37 PM (GMT)
So I've tried, really I have, to sort this out. For hours. I feel like a close up of a pulsing brain. I just can't keep track of the landslide of releases anymore, even as I wish to potentially upgrade.
Basically: film by film, which are the worldwide-best home video releases of every Argento title? Assume that I can play - and pay - anything, and that bonus features are a non-issue.
Michael Mackenzie - November 27, 2007 02:41 PM (GMT)
Okay, here goes. Bear in mind that these are just my own opinions, based on what I've seen for myself:
The Bird with the Crystal Plumage - Blue Underground 2-discer (US)
The Cat O' Nine Tails - Anchor Bay (US)
Profondo Rosso - Anchor Bay (US)
Suspiria - Anchor Bay (US)
Inferno - 20th Century Fox (Italy)
Tenebre - A-Film (Netherlands)
Phenomena - Cinefil Imagica (Japan) - note: some sections of dialogue in Italian even on English track
Opera - Arrow Films (UK)
Two Evil Eyes - Blue Underground 2-discer (US)
Trauma - Anchor Bay (US)
The Stendhal Syndrome - Blue Underground 2-discer (US)
The Phantom of the Opera - Medusa (Italy)
Non Ho Sonno - Medusa (Italy)
The Card Player - Hollywood Classic Entertainment (Czech Republic)
Jenifer - Anchor Bay Blu-ray release of "Masters of Horror, Season 1, Part 2" (USA)
Do You Like Hitchcock? - Studio Canal (France) for English audio, Cecchi Gori (Italy) for image quality
Pelts - Anchor Bay (USA)
Andrew Fitzpatrick - November 27, 2007 10:23 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Michael Mackenzie @ Nov 27 2007, 02:41 PM) |
The Card Player - Hollywood Classic Entertainment (Czech Republic) |
How many ways is that funny?
Chris Stangl - November 27, 2007 11:18 PM (GMT)
Well, that's exactly what I needed. Thanks! There's really no better option for TRAUMA than the Anchor Bay? Shucks. I know the Cecchi Gori release doesn't have an English dialogue track, but is it a preferable visual presentation?
Vincent Pereira - November 27, 2007 11:37 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Chris Stangl @ Nov 27 2007, 05:18 PM) |
| Well, that's exactly what I needed. Thanks! There's really no better option for TRAUMA than the Anchor Bay? Shucks. I know the Cecchi Gori release doesn't have an English dialogue track, but is it a preferable visual presentation? |
The color scheme of the Italian TRAUMA DVD is very different from the look of the Anchor Bay- much more saturated colors, and higher (some might argue boosted) contrast- and personally, I prefer that look to the colder AB look*. The German DVD of TRAUMA is a port of the Italian transfer, and offers the additional scenes from the Italian version as a supplement (like the AB release), albeit without English subtitles. I actually put together my own personal "complete" English-language version of TRAUMA by dubbing the audio from my workprint VHS over the additional scenes of the Italian version, and IMO, this home-made DVD is currently the best DVD of TRAUMA you can get :)
There's a Japanese release of INFERNO coming that uses the same master as the new Italian DVD, so it might be preferable if you're bothered by PAL speed up.
Vincent
* Although to be fair the AB look might be more the "intended" look of the film, as Raphaelle Mertes had the 35mm prints treated with the same ENR process used by Fincher on SE7EN, which results in more muted, desaturated colors along with deeper blacks.
Domenick Fraumeni - November 28, 2007 05:18 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Vincent Pereira @ Nov 27 2007, 06:37 PM) |
Vincent
* Although to be fair the AB look might be more the "intended" look of the film, as Raphaelle Mertes had the 35mm prints treated with the same ENR process used by Fincher on SE7EN, which results in more muted, desaturated colors along with deeper blacks. |
That would be correct. TRAUMA'S desaturated colour scheme is intentional, unfortunately. Shame, as it makes Minneapolis look really dull.
Vincent Pereira - November 28, 2007 05:27 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Domenick Fraumeni @ Nov 27 2007, 11:18 PM) |
| QUOTE (Vincent Pereira @ Nov 27 2007, 06:37 PM) | Vincent
* Although to be fair the AB look might be more the "intended" look of the film, as Raphaelle Mertes had the 35mm prints treated with the same ENR process used by Fincher on SE7EN, which results in more muted, desaturated colors along with deeper blacks. |
That would be correct. TRAUMA'S desaturated colour scheme is intentional, unfortunately. Shame, as it makes Minneapolis look really dull.
|
This is one case where I'll agree to disagree with Mr. Argento and Mr. Mertes and enjoy the more colorful and saturated Italian transfer :)
Vincent
JEFFREY ALLEN RYDELL - November 28, 2007 05:39 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Vincent Pereira @ Nov 28 2007, 12:27 AM) |
| This is one case where I'll agree to disagree with Mr. Argento and Mr. Mertes and enjoy the more colorful and saturated Italian transfer :) |
I think you meant, '- at my peril!!!', and not smiley face. :P
Domenick Fraumeni - November 28, 2007 12:52 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Vincent Pereira @ Nov 28 2007, 12:27 AM) |
This is one case where I'll agree to disagree with Mr. Argento and Mr. Mertes and enjoy the more colorful and saturated Italian transfer :)
Vincent |
Same here. I've always been personally annoyed with that choice as I'm not a fan of desaturated colour, and Minneapolis is actually quite a nice town, and to show it like that gives the wrong impression.
Vincent Pereira - November 29, 2007 01:24 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Domenick Fraumeni @ Nov 28 2007, 06:52 AM) |
| QUOTE (Vincent Pereira @ Nov 28 2007, 12:27 AM) | This is one case where I'll agree to disagree with Mr. Argento and Mr. Mertes and enjoy the more colorful and saturated Italian transfer :)
Vincent |
Same here. I've always been personally annoyed with that choice as I'm not a fan of desaturated colour, and Minneapolis is actually quite a nice town, and to show it like that gives the wrong impression.
|
What's odd about the desaturation is that Argento said during the making of TRAUMA that he loved how the light looked that far up north, that it had a yellow tint to it, and the Italian DVD has a warm look that suggest a yellow tint to the lighting.
Vincent
Terry Warrick - November 29, 2007 04:28 AM (GMT)
I would say that the US Anchor Bay version of Inferno is superior for video presentation.
Vincent Pereira - November 29, 2007 05:37 AM (GMT)
Do you have both versions? Based on the screen caps I've seen, the Italian release is not only more detailed, it has more picture information compared to the Anchor Bay, which is comparatively zoomed in thus cropping a noticeable amount from the sides of the frame.
Vincent
Chris Stangl - November 29, 2007 09:10 AM (GMT)
Re: TENEBRE. The A-Films disc has those crazy missing seconds, right? Anybody got a source for it? Or is it out of print?
Steve Guariento - November 29, 2007 09:20 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Vincent Pereira @ Nov 28 2007, 11:37 PM) |
Do you have both versions? Based on the screen caps I've seen, the Italian release is not only more detailed, it has more picture information compared to the Anchor Bay, which is comparatively zoomed in thus cropping a noticeable amount from the sides of the frame.
Vincent |
But the Italian disc also screws with the film's intense colour scheme, another of these bizarre "restorations" where heavy colour saturation is substantially dialled down by ill-informed telecine engineers (as with MGM's THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY, the early Connery Bonds etc etc). It's a supremely irritating trend that I wish could be knocked swiftly on the head; as you say, the Italian release otherwise offers a more detailed image than the AB so it's a pity they couldn't get it completely right.
Godawful colour timing is also the reason why I can't bring myself to pick up the Dutch TENEBRAE (red shoes should be red, not pink!), so will continue to stick with the imperfect-but-tolerable AB US disc of that title, too.
And I'm really quite shocked by the general cavalier attitude to the obviously-incorrect colour schemes of the Italian TRAUMA disc. It's WRONG, folks! In the "Profondo Argento" book, Argento [or his DP] is quoted to the effect that he is going for a desaturated, almost black-and-white effect to the visuals - emphatically not the garishly colour-boosted look currently evinced by the Italian release. I mean, would we be advocating this kind of artificial chroma-pumping if it were, say, LAWRENCE OF ARABIA? (I'm only half serious, but you get my meaning, hopefully...)
At least nobody has yet recommended the recent "restored" anniversary edition of SUSPIRIA. :)
JEFFREY ALLEN RYDELL - November 29, 2007 05:08 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Steve Guariento @ Nov 29 2007, 04:20 AM) |
| At least nobody has yet recommended the recent "restored" anniversary edition of SUSPIRIA. :) |
You'll have to got to DVD Maniacs Forum for that.
Michael Mackenzie - November 29, 2007 05:36 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (JEFFREY ALLEN RYDELL @ Nov 29 2007, 06:08 PM) |
| You'll have to got to DVD Maniacs Forum for that. |
:D
Seriously, avoid the "Definitive Edition" like the plague.
Vincent Pereira - November 29, 2007 09:59 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Steve Guariento @ Nov 29 2007, 03:20 AM) |
And I'm really quite shocked by the general cavalier attitude to the obviously-incorrect colour schemes of the Italian TRAUMA disc. It's WRONG, folks! In the "Profondo Argento" book, Argento [or his DP] is quoted to the effect that he is going for a desaturated, almost black-and-white effect to the visuals - emphatically not the garishly colour-boosted look currently evinced by the Italian release. I mean, would we be advocating this kind of artificial chroma-pumping if it were, say, LAWRENCE OF ARABIA? (I'm only half serious, but you get my meaning, hopefully...)
|
The DP does say he went for a desaturated look, and yet in the same piece Argento specifically mentions the yellow light in Minneapolis. I'm not convinced this isn't a case where the DP and director saw things different seeing as how the Italian DVD has that yellow look.
Vincent
Eric Cotenas - November 29, 2007 11:55 PM (GMT)
I don't remember the Argento quote about yellow light but I remember reading that he liked that "natural lighting" that Mertes used in LA SETTA (I think it was either a Cinefantastique or Fangoria piece on TRAUMA - the same one that mentioned he was doing a film about the Stendhal Syndrome with Bridget Fonda).
I'll probably get the Italian disc for the detail but I do prefer the saturation on the Anchor Bay disc.
Vincent Pereira - November 30, 2007 12:26 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (JEFFREY ALLEN RYDELL @ Nov 29 2007, 11:08 AM) |
| You'll have to got to DVD Maniacs Forum for that. |
Actually the main discussion in the DVD Maniacs thread is centering around the French release (both the Wild Side DVD and High Definition theatrical screenings), which folks who've seen it have been saying looks different than the screen caps Michael Mackenzie posted from the new Italian DVD.
| QUOTE (Eric Cotenas) |
I don't remember the Argento quote about yellow light but I remember reading that he liked that "natural lighting" that Mertes used in LA SETTA (I think it was either a Cinefantastique or Fangoria piece on TRAUMA - the same one that mentioned he was doing a film about the Stendhal Syndrome with Bridget Fonda).
I'll probably get the Italian disc for the detail but I do prefer the saturation on the Anchor Bay disc. |
Well if Argento was going for "natural" then I'd argue that the Italian version does look more natural than the washed-out Anchor Bay version. That, along with the warmer more yellowish tint to the proceedings, aligns closely to what he was saying back then regarding the light up north in Minnesota, etc.
Vincent
Eric Cotenas - December 6, 2007 06:34 PM (GMT)
How accurate are the older tape releases of TRAUMA? I remember the US tape (since its a US release, I'm guessing it was sourced from an intermediate element owned by First Look or Overseas or whatever they were at the time rather than a projection print) besides being fuzzy from the panning and scanning having a warmer look to it than my Optimum disc minus the untreated saturated colors of the Italian disc.
My Japanese tape of THE CHURCH has the prologue looking much more sepia than either DVD and just looks warmer overall.
Andras Hernadi - December 9, 2007 09:59 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Eric Cotenas @ Nov 29 2007, 05:55 PM) |
| I'll probably get the Italian disc for the detail but I do prefer the saturation on the Anchor Bay disc. |
Check the Trades on Latarnia as I'm giving away the German disc of TRAUMA which has an English option. This track sounds like a rough mix,I swear You can even hear the camera whirring. The local (Hungarian) dvdrelease was licensed from First Look and is the same print that Anchor Bay used.