How is it?

i bought it, but haven't had the chance to really go through it yet.

I did do a frame by frame on the 4 way death scene/car crash. that was pretty cool, but i didnt see anything new and i thought i remembered reading somewhere that there were some cuts during this scene to get an R rating.

you also get a 5 dollar off coupon for PLANET TERROR.

I got it, but haven't watched the whole thing yet. While I took a look at the crash, I'd be hesitant to say that anything was added since there's no way to compare both versions right now. Wilhelm does turn up, however, and he's prominent enought in the mix that I have to think I'd have heard him in the GRINDHOUSE cut if he'd been present.

Uh...what?

Wilhelm scream. Peter's saying that he thinks the sound effect was added to the dvd.

AAIIIIIEEEEEEEEE!

Speaking of Wilhelm, BLOODFIST 2050 must hold the record for the fastest Wilhelm -- it's heard only 16 seconds into the movie!

Trust you to have your stopwatch at the ready.

BLOODFIST 2050 isn't even out of the '80s stock footage at that point!

Last time I checked, the Wilhelm scream is a guy. So, how does this fit snugly into Death Proof? Or is it another one of those increasingly tiresome wink-winks from film-nerd directors that totally take me out of the movie?

Or... maybe it's used for the deleted scene when Russell drops Eli Roth into the Grand Canyon? A fella can dream...

As a DEATH PROOF fan and apologist, it gives me no pleasure to say that this extended cut vindicates every single complaint and criticism that people have lobbed at this movie.

I do defend the dialogue, acting and pacing, but only of the theatrical cut.

As someone who thinks that the theatrical cut of DEATH PROOF remains a pretty cool little lark of a self-conscious exploitation flick, the director's cut which Quentin is defending to the teeth as his true cut shows that he's not only completely disconnected and detached from his audience, but also from good editorial storytelling.

He says in that Salon piece that he didn't just cut to the bone, but past the bone for the theatrical cut.

Uh, no, Quentin, with that cut, you FOUND the bone! If you thought the movie was shapeless before, just you wait.

There are really neat transitions and nicely weighed "iconic" sequences in the theatrical cut which are undone by restoring the fat to this film.

Remember how Quentin cuts from that genuinely creepy moment of Butterfly stepping out into the rainy night for a smoke, catching sight of Stuntman Mike's car into Mike's actual introduction scene with him stuffing nachos and turning around to give his prey the "iconic eyeball?"

Well, that bit of slickness is totally gone. Instead, the moment is cheapened with a bad fake scare (oh, Quentin, come on, man!) and we get a looooooong arguement between Butterfly and a truly horrid Eli Roth (his acting is actually more annoying than Tarantino's) about making out. This crap goes on and on before we cut in on Stuntman Mike eating nachos.

By this point, the creepy realization by Butterfly that some guy is following them feels like it happened an hour ago.

And that's the thing with this new cut. EVERYTHING now feels like it's another hour apart! You may have read that the only two changes were the additional lap dance and the additional convenience store scene, but that's far from the truth.

It's also worth mentioning that the scene of Kurt Russell eating nachos and turning menacingly towards the camera is no longer Stuntman Mike's introductory scene. Instead, we get a long scene of him in his car watching the girls and then looking at himself in the mirror, applying eyedrops. Quentin should have just had him go ahead and comb his and pluck his eyebrows while he was at it. Not only is this scene ponderous, but it reduces Mike. Our first glimpse of him in the mirror before he whips out his eyedrops makes his face seem weak and small. This completely undercuts Stuntman Mike's presence in the the first half of the film as one cool, evil dude.

As someone who has been watching a bootleg of the theatrical cut since April, I can tell you that EVERY SINGLE DIALOGUE SCENE has been extended in some way. You read that right. And the extensions are usually not for the better. I really do think that Quentin found a relatively snappy, slick pace for his talky, slow girl flick thriller in the theatrical cut. With most of the reinstated lines, the pacing is thrown off.

For instance, I've always thought that the first car scene between the bad girls kind of hummed along right to the moment when they playfully scream at Jungle Julia's billboard and we see Stuntman Mike following them. Quentin instantly kills that scene with a painful moment of Shanna first calling Julia on swearing at her too much and then slowly, oh-so-sloooooooowly illustrating exactly what it is in Julia's syntax that counts as swearing.

Not only is this bad writing, but it painfully spells out stuff which is already implicit. It's like Quentin took notes which should have been left for the margins and turned it into dialogue.

And, actually, that pretty much sums up almost all of the extended dialogue in DEATH PROOF. All of it spends time spelling out stuff which reasonably intelligent viewers can figure out for themselves.

This isn't to say that there aren't nice scene extensions, but for the most part, they really don't work and effectively turn DEATH PROOF into exactly the movie that haters have been accusing it of being since GRINDHOUSE was first released.

According to the Salon article, Harvey seems to want us to believe that these newly extended and individualized versions of the GRINDHOUSE movies will dwarf the original, inspired theatrical release version.

Uh, no, Harvey. By introducing GRINDHOUSE in the form of a newly bloated DEATH PROOF to a public who were too cautious to catch this theatrically, he has essentially killed GRINDHOUSE for good.

Well done.

The news isn't all bad. Both of the completely new scenes are pretty damn good. In fact, the lapdance is one of the best scenes in the movie (and is set to my favorite song on the soundtrack that didn't make it in the first time, The Coasters' "Down In Mexico"). By removing it, Quentin sort of shot himself in the foot by trying to repeat a joke that Rodriguez did better.

Had the new cut merely included these two scenes along with all the editorial decisions from the theatrical cut, it would have resulted in a much nicer, tighter little stand alone flick.

The black & white convenience store scene is actually a pretty nice introduction to the second group of girls and adds a sense of menace and atmosphere that the rest of the film really doesn't have.

Unfortunately, Quentin actually takes his foot fetish way, way too far in this scene. You read that right. WAY too far. He actually has Stuntman Mike caress, then sniff and then lick Rosario's feet.

On another board, one person wrote that he was actually embarassed for Tarantino with regards to the foot fetish stuff in DEATH PROOF. With this new scene in the new cut, I can say for the first time that I actually agree.

But, hey. Quentin should enjoy it, because he may never have enough creative control over a project to go slobbering over feet to this extent again.

Of course, he could just cut loose and start directing foot fetish porn. If Harvey every gives up on him, what else could he really do?

I know, I know. He could just start working as a writer for hire, but he's too proud and too slow a worker to do that.

With the early success he enjoyed, he may never need to work again and who knows? After GRINDHOUSE, we may watch another 5-6 years slip by in which it seems like he never will.

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Oh, and the Wilhelm scream comes just as we see the final shot of Stuntman Mike's car tumbling after colliding with the girls' car. I guess we have to assume that it's Mike doing the yelling, although it's buried so low in the mix that I don't think Quentin really cared what you thought it was.

Of course, no one complained in HELLBOY when the Wilhelm seemed to emanate from the fleshless skeleton of a NAZI who had already been dead for a couple of seconds before the scream. Of course, we could just chalk that one up to strange sound phenomena surrounding Rasputin's Lovecraftian gate portal.

Tarantino has no such cheat handy, but it's just a goofy style choice. It's just that in this instance, yes, it DOES take you out of the moment. And considering that this is the single strongest moment in DEATH PROOF that Quentin is defusing, I again submit that he edited and mixed this cut with a complete sense of detachment as to what would work for the audience.

Except that he's a better, more consistent director than writer, when you get right down to it.

I agree.

To be fair, I think I was (more than) a little harsh last night.

I'm almost inclined to suggest that the second half of the movie works much better with the added scenes. The second girl group always felt underdeveloped thanks to Quentin's need to watch the first group drink and dance and drink and talk and drink.

There's a lot more booze fetish shots in the film now and I'm certain of what I once suspected: Quentin intends for this to be a party movie or the basis for some kind of drinking game.

On the other hand, the convenience store scene ends with a particularly self-conscious negotiation between the girls of splitting the cost for a $27 issue of Italian Vogue. When Abernathy starts talking about "per diem" and Lee talks about getting the art department to do perfect color copies of any pages removed, you realize that this is a long, self-indulgent tribute to conversations that Quentin may have been party to as a filmmaker.

As before, I think that the second girl group is a loving valentine to girls who have worked on his movies, defined by the obvious casting of Zoe Bell who took a serious whupping throughout the course of KILL BILL.

I'm also approaching this cut as a geek of the theatrical cut which I've watched many, many times. It's possible that first time viewers will be fine with the pace. Well, first time viewers who would have liked the theatrical GRINDHOUSE anyway.

Casual viewers, those who are easily bored, will turn this movie off long, long before the first car crash. As an attempt to make GRINDHOUSE more accessible, this is a total failure.

If you're going to bash Roth as an actor, make sure you know who he is and what he looks like. That's Omar Doom as Butterfly's man.

As for the length of the "making out" section, have a look at its original form in the screenplay. You ain't seen nuthin'. :o

Does the new version do anything to support/disprove the "switched reels" theory?

Yeah, I realized my mistake when rewatching the film this morning.

Sorry about that. :unsure:

I'm going to guess that, as with the GRINDHOUSE cut, any such theory would have to be smuggled in by the viewer.

I'm surprised that the "switched reels" theory even exists at all.

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In both cuts of the movie, we see Abernathy flatten Stuntman Mike's skull with the heel of her boot.

The new cut adds a "14 Months Later" card after the Earl McGraw scene, but even without it, Stuntman Mike is clearly killed at the end of the movie. It occurs right after Quentin's writer/director credit and I did notice that other people in the theater were not looking at the screen when the film came back (despite the fact that it comes back so quickly and does so for several seconds) so I can only assume that the quick shot of Mike's head being crushed is often missed, but it's an unmistakable death blow.

For me, the theory came into existence because I think the movie is much, much stupider without it. I'm not sure it can work, although I was intrigued at the idea presented before of him returning from the dead... in fact, adding further meaning to the title.

All I know is that the Stuntman Mike character going from the way he is in the first part to who he is in the second part doesn't make sense to me, while him going from who he is in the second part to who he is in the first does make sense. I guess it's a desperate attempt to make a mediocre movie with some good bits into something that maybe actually works as a whole.

I don't understand this statement. I fully understand why some don't like the film while I enjoyed it (and the "to me" of your statement is probably the decider in this discussion anyway) but what doesn't make sense about the character from one part to the next?

Stuntman Mike is a creepy sadist/bully/coward with a death wish who preys on young women with his 'great equalizer' until he finally meets his match in professional women from his own field of expertise who beat him at his own game. What's not to make sense? I'm not assuming that the first set of girls is the first time he's done this, so I assume the long road of recovery from his particularly "perfect crime" M.O. of murder is already accepted by him as part of the price he pays. Thus, the recovery after the first crash doesn't seem like any kind of "life changing experience" or anything. The only difference between him in the first and last segments is that he was stupid enough to choose the wrong girls to mess with the second time. and finally gets the beating he's richly deserved.

Precisely. That's pretty much what I was going to post.

I actually don't dislike it. At least I certainly didn't as part of Grind House. I'm still having difficulty running to check out the extended version, as can't help thinking it will go from being a part of an exciting evening of entertainment to simply being my least favorite Tarantino movie.

As to the specifics... I just think it arcs the other way. In the second segment, his car is not death proofed... or as death proofed. His character seems more lighthearted and like this is something new, whereas he seems in the first segment like a man determined, someone for whom this sick game has become a lifestyle.

Again, those are just my impressions, but it certainly works for me as a piece better with that arc than it does with the one presented.

This is exactly how I saw the film. I really don't think DEATH PROOF is any more complicated than it appears to be.

Actually, the entire time Stuntman Mike is in the Texas Chili Parlor, he's pretty lighthearted -- you almost want to like the guy (or feel sorry for him), with the jokes and the impression of John Wayne. He doesn't turn determined until he kills Pam, IMHO.

To veer a bit off-topic for just a moment... I find the Hellboy Wilhelm one of the few artistically-justified modern uses of it, along with Kill Bill Vol 1's big battle. These are both essentially comic book action sequences that are already giving the audience some Brechtian distance with their style. It's a retro sound effect that fits best in retro sequences. Particularly with Hellboy, del Toro was reflecting the Hellboy comic and how its villians have often been reduced to a skull still screaming. "Curse you, Hellboyyyy...." and stuff like that. I think on his commentary track he mentions that he told the CGI animators "Where's my screaming skull?"

When the Wilhelm rings out in The Two Towers, after Jackson has pulled me in so close emotionally with all those little boys being armored up to go die, it really comes off immature and cheap.

I'm back and forth on seeing this longer Death Proof, but what I'm reading here doesn't sound so good. One would have thought all that Jungle Julia text messaging might amount to something in a longer cut. I might see it with some buddies tonight and weigh in later.

I didn't care at all for DEATH PROOF when it was in GRINDHOUSE. The second time I saw GRINDHOUSE, my opinion of DP improved a little bit as I forgave some of its flaws (banal dialog, etc.). After seeing this extended cut, I'm back to really not liking the film all over again. The extra scenes do nothing but drag it all on even longer (yes, the impossible just happened) and the lap-dance sequence is as erotic as Zoe Bell's face. Those shorts and belly flab don't mix.

The international trailer for DP on the disc makes the film look pretty good, though, so there you go!

I've always felt chopping GRINDHOUSE in two for single DVD releases does a disservice to both Rodriguez's and Tarantino's work. Padding DEATH PROOF (and - probably - PLANET TERROR) doesn't help the cause as both of these work as partners in one film with faux trailers acting as the glue between them.

I don't fault Tarantino (or Rodruguez) for this marketing misstep but I do take issue with Tarantino's seeming lack of confidence in DEATH PROOF's original incarnation...

But...

...maybe they should have released this version of DEATH PROOF with its "original" title (I can't remember what it was) that flashes on the screen quickly before the DEATH PROOF title comes on - and then, when they do release GRINDHOUSE, this "film" - with cuts and all (its original theatrical format) - will actually make more "sense" as - perhaps - a "final cut."

It would be fitting that the "true" version of DEATH PROOF be the one just released on disc and by the time it plays as second tier on a double feature (GRINDHOUSE), its gone through all kinds of abuse including missing reels, scratches, choppy continuity, etc...

Well, over here we didn't get the pleasure of a GRINDHOUSE double feature - which is a shame because as the hype rolled out originally, the UK and Ireland were singled out for their long historical embrace of double features.

The version I saw Friday was the full length standalone version. Before you read any further, I can tell you I loved every wicked minute.....

The house was packed...The scratchy opening reels were almost as ragged as the preceding commercials and "refrain from smoking and talking" cards and as the lights dipped, the audience hushed as the "new" Tarantino flick flickered to life.

I was conscious of enjoying the talky first half. The banter was great but all the while I was thinking - "This is cool, but when is something going to happen?" In hindsight, I'm itching to see those scenes again; hear that dialogue again. It worked for me. The empathy for the girls is built up to give emotional weight to the subsequent scene(s) later. The audience was hushed. As the girls drove away, something happened that elicited a response from the audience - a knowing wink that signalled the start of the ride. You could feel the atmosphere in the auditorium crackle with anticipation.

The subsequent scenes were not a big surprise to me. I've been brought up on Grindhouse fare from an early age. The big surprise for me was Zoe Bell. I know stuntpeople have to act to integrate into a movie but this girl was acting her little socks off. I thought she was a firecracker of an actress and she completely sold me. She stole every scene with her energy and accent. I hope we see more of her as an actress. If the movie was to be taken seriously (and it's not to be as befits a "Grindhouse" bit of fluff), I'd have a hard time swallowing their vicious tableturning but I think everybody watching got the "joke". A rare thing happened as "THE END" flashed up - spontanous applause. The audience went along for the ride and got off safely at the end.

Victor

PS: The trailer for PLANET TERROR preceded the feature. I hadn't seen it before and it looks absolutely fantastic (fun). Biggest laughs went to BLACK SHEEP trailer though. Looks like more of the same "brain dead" NZ comic horror but the trailer is nicely done.

Until you see it again and you realize how much Zoe Bell can't act...

In fact - there were certain moments I felt embarassed for her...

<Don't get me wrong - I liked DEATH PROOF...loved GRINDHOUSE>

I don't think Zoe Bell is much of an actress, but she's fine in DEATH PROOF, since she's playing herself and surrounded by similarly chatty actresses. There's nothing at all embarassing about her performance; quite the contrary, her stunning stuntwork during the car chase is one of the most impressive bits I'll see in a film this year and very much something for her to be proud of. I highly doubt she's going to get many more large roles, however.

The audience I saw GRINDHOUSE with broke into applause at the end too. Almost everyone I know who saw GRINDHOUSE loved it. Apparently, the Weinsteins' problem was getting people into the theater in the first place, as word of mouth was quite good.

No doubt but her acting off the car's hood was not as adroit...