So, which way are you leaning on this? Are you going to get both Dark Sky's and Anchor Bay's discs of KILL BABY KILL? If not, which of the two do you plan on picking up? For me, it's a simple decision. Even though I have all the titles from Image, I'll definitely be getting AB's box set for several reasons--the English versions of BLACK SABBATH and GIRL WHO KNEW TO MUCH, upgraded transfers, new extras, etc. The Dark Sky disc won't be a "must have" like the box, but I'm leaning toward getting it, mainly for the other extras. So, the box is a definite, and the Dark Sky disc is a probably/maybe. (How's that for commitment?)

You?

If I have understood all the information correctly, the Dark Sky disc will have Tim's commentary, and the AB disc will have both English and Italian audio options.

I'll have to have both, because I can't pass up one of Tim's terrific Bava commentaries and like being able to see the different versions of the film both.

I'd already pre-ordered the Dark Sky disc before the contents of the AB set were announced. I'll now be getting both.

I'll be getting both, which will make a total of 3 versions of KBK that I own as I still have the old VCI disc. I used to sell off old versions of discs when a new version would come out (and as long as all the extras were carried over), but lately I'm too lazy and I just hang on to all of 'em.

As far as the AB Bava set, the specs look great (especially the alternate soundtracks). I have all the old Image releases as well. So this will all just be a big double-dip, although with definite upgrades. I'm sure there will be some things left off of these new versions that were on the Image releases (possibly liner notes or whatnot). So I'll be holding on to the Image releases as well - and I like the cover art on them enough to want to keep them even if everything was carried over.

So how many copies of a certain movie must we own in this new double-dipping era? I think KBK may become the highest in my collection with 3 versions. It's insanity, I tell ya.

I'll be getting both. Then I'll have 5 versions. Dark Sky for the commentary (and transfer) and AB for the Italian audio with English subtitles (I really do prefer the Italian audio for this one).

Insanity is correct. Sorry, my days of buying multiple copies of a film for extras or minor upgrades in quality are gone. The DVD market burned me and burned me out some time ago, and once you get over it you can read those online DVD reviews about titles being essential repurchases for some minor supplementary material, for example an audio commentary, with a chuckle rather than feeling the need for a fix.

:o

I put a lot of effort into my audio commentaries, sometimes as much as three weeks of concentrated work to ensure that everything reads well and is scene specific. It's like scoring a film; I take it that seriously. Whether it's enough to compel you to part with $15 is your own affair, Miles, but it's not accurate to characterize such work as minor.

Since I didn't keep the VCI disc, I'll be getting both the Dark Sky and Anchor Bay versions, for reasons similar to comments that others have made here.

As someone who used to spend a huge amount back in the LD/pre-DVD days on acquiring discs with audio commentaries, I appreciate a good one as much as the next person (some of those old Criterions are as valuable today as any works of film criticism in print), but every other DVD released these days has one, and it's doubtful most commentators put three hours of thought into one beforehand, let alone three weeks.

Tim, you are in the minority, a very small minority, and we all appreciate it, and doubtless your commentary will have a large bearing on which disc(s) those like me, will buy. But while just this morning I was listening to the LONG WEEKEND commentary, and found it most rewarding, with most discs these days it frankly I"m not overly concerned if there's a commentary on it or not [as a random example, I'm a big admirer of Michael Mann, but I missed MIAMI VICE theatrically; I'll be picking up the DVD but it really doesn't bother me if it has a commentary or not, at least not to the point where I'd pay extra to get have a disc that featured one, which I would have done in the past], as the inclusion of one has become just a selling point rather than a serious attempt to offer the viewer more insight into the film, and this is especially true with regard to contemporary films where I usually feel I've wasted enough time sitting through the darned thing once, never mind giving it a second run! So I'd ultimately stick by assessment that most commentaries these days are of minor importance.

I can see where Tim and Miles are both coming from, and for my own two cents I'll probably be getting both releases. As a bit of fannish tomfoolerly I'll also likely ditch the AB KILL disc to a secondhand store (replacing it with the Dark Sky version in the box) if the DS release trumps AB's in both AV quality and extras, the latter already known but the former still up for grabs.

With probably hundreds of discs featuring still-unheard commentaries on my shelf I'm picky as to what I'll listen to - a doco usually takes preference for me these days - but I've enjoyed the commentaries by Tim that I've heard in the past and will look forward to his KILL talk. I'll probably be joining Miles in the reformed disc addict camp soon though, as with changing priorities and demands plus a way-too-big collection, I can see the end of the line approaching for a certain period of fandom and collecting for me. To be honest I'm glad these redone Bava boxes and Tim's book are both finally coming out this year, as I'm not sure I'd be in the same frame of mind to indulge them the next. Eurocult fandom and a long rack of complete VW issues all began for me in my early 20's, and with family and work responsibilities looming very large in my 30's I have to keep a watchful eye on which hobbies and indulgences get kept, and which get left behind. This isn't a slight on any of the work discussed in this thread, and I'm sure others know the feeling.

Hey, try writing for VWwith a growing family... and I'm in my mid-40s! Ha! Trumped your ass, Anthony Thorne! Call me when you get some real problems! :P

A commentary from Tim on any Bava release makes a purchase for me a no brainer. Thing is, I believe that the Bava collection from ABE is only available in a boxed set,at the moment, and KBK is included. So, unless you already have all of these titles, it's a bit less of a double dip in this case,imho.

Comparing a Tim Lucas commentary on a Mario Bava film, and a slapped-on commentary by some cast and crew as they're getting quietly (or not so quietly) drunk, just seems, well, wrong. I am resisting the double-dip whenever I can but there's no way I'm passing on these.

I bow to the master.

Even if the Dark Sky KBK didn't have a Tim Lucas commentary (which it thankfully does!!!), it can hardly be called a minor upgrade. Anyone that says it'll be a minor upgrade obviously hasn't seen the VCI disc.

Tim's commentary on the Image BLACK SUNDAY has always been one of my favorites. If all my teachers in school had made learning that much fun, I'd be one well-informed man today (about other things than gothic horror movies).

That BLACK SUNDAY disc has long been a favorite, before this century, before I moved full-time to NYC, before so many things. And I've been waiting ever since for that KILL BABY KILL commentary promised at the end. I sold off my KBK Sinister tape in anticipation. Hell, that's what first drove me to Mobius... to find out when the blazes the KBK special edition was coming!

Based on the specs, screengrabs, and the Savant review, I'd say that the Dark Sky release is definitely the pimped-out KBK ride I've been waiting seven years for. I'm getting the box set primarily for the Karloff audio version of BLACK SABBATH. Everything else on the set is either something I already own or something I consider a nice extra, including a copy of OPERAZIONE PAURA. I'd prefer it if the box set had one of the other VCI Bavas remastered and anamorphic, but I'll splurge this time. Anyone know where this $35 price tag I read about is being offered?

"the Dark Sky release is definitely the pimped-out KBK ride I've been waiting seven years for"

Now THAT'S a blurb! B)

It depends if the AB Box presents each film in its own Amray case or in some kind of fold-out digi-pack; the latter would prevent you from doing this. This wouldn't be an option for me though as I'd likely only get about $2 for the disc anyway.

Last night I got round to watching THE CANDY SNATCHERS, which seems to have become a legit cult exploitation flick, but I thought was more on the level of a TV movie. There's a commentary on the DVD, but after watching the interviews with the participants on the disc I don't really have much enthusiasm for sitting down and spending another 90 mins listening to them. The previous evenings I watched the "Emilio Miraglia Killer Queen" Box Set and was actually thankful there were no commentaries on the discs; no, of course, I wouldn't have had to listen to them if there were, but...

Another recent viewing was the "Angel Guts" box set. The commentary on the first film was quite poor; mainly info being imparted that was largely culled from Tom Weisser's book and a failure to "read" the film that was unspooling. I don't blame the commentator (commentaries are not easy jobs, as anyone who's participated in one will tell you), more the person who gave the job to someone who wasn't really qualified or particularly interested in doing it. There was just no need for that commentary to be on there. Anyway, at least it meant I could safely ignore the commentaries on the other entries in the series.

I write this to give some insight to my current "attittude" to DVD and the "extras" that come with each release nowadays. I should add that my comment about "minor upgrades" was directed at the market in general and not at all intended to refer the upcoming KILL, BABY, KILL releases; the thread just happened to be one where I chose to air my thoughts about DVD and the endless reissuing and repackaging of some titles, and consequently how my buying habits have changed over the last 3 years.

No it wouldn't. My intention (if i go this route) is just to swap the discs, not keepcases or packaging. So, if I ditch the AB KILL disc, it'll still go to my local secondhand shop in the DS packaging. When they open the box they'll still see a disc titled KILL BABY KILL in there either way, and I doubt they'll notice or care about the different company logo. (Matter of fact, I know an employee of the store who has done this himself). I'm pretty sure my old Anchor Bay ARMY OF DARKNESS 2-DVD set has the more recent HK restored-transfer edition of the director's cut stuck inside it.

I know where Miles is coming from. Frankly, when casting my ballot for this year's Rondo Awards, I didn't feel I should vote in the Best DVD Commentary category because I hadn't heard enough of the commentaries to vote fairly, and can't take the time right now to slog through them. And I publish a video magazine! On the other hand, I should mention that the CANDY SNATCHERS commentary is one of those rare occasions when a commentary's value as insight into the production and the lives of its participants far outweighs the value of the feature itself.

I agree. I think THE CANDY SNATCHERS is a very good film, but there's almost as much drama, pathos and humanity in the commentary as in the movie. It's one of the best commentaries I've listened to.

Argh! I don't know if I should thank you guys, or not. Obviously I now have to listen to this commentary.

Sorry Marty, but I don't really understand why this film is rated so highly by some, and yes, I've read a couple of reviews by its admirers. Cinematography, music, directing, acting and story are all quite typical of an average early~mid 70's TV movie, with production values just below the level of, say, an episode of "The Rockford Files". Sure, there's a few exploitative elements thrown in, but nothing particularly edgy and certainly nothing anywhere near as disturbing as what we find in LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT, a film which perhaps inspired its production and to which it's sometimes compared.

Here's a question for the floor:

Which release (Dark Sky or Anchor Bay) do you think will be revisited on a High Def format? Would this affect your decisions on the current releases?

No disrespect to Tim, or to the others that bust their humps to provide all the bells-n-whistles (and I do respect the effort), but all I want is the best version of the film. Period. The film speaks for itself, and if I want to get some added insight on the film, I’d rather just read about it. Yay, Video Watchdog! Or use the ‘net to pull up reproductions of the lobby cards or to read the screenplay.

Bam. That’s it, save us all the double/triple/quadruple-dipping.

So the marketplace should offer us... less? Double-plus-good, citizen. Fewer choices is better! Long Live Big Brother!

I don't think the point of re-issuing KILL BABY KILL was just to add "bells-n-whistles". The original DVDs were taken from sources that were less than pristine (albeit the best available at the time), and these new DVDs were mastered from far better elements, in anamorphic widescreen to boot. I mean, look at those screen caps Tim posted on his blog- drrroooooooollllllll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it comes down to new film elements being discovered years later that can be used to create a far higher-quality end product- and, for shits and giggles, lots of nifty "bells and whistles" (which, while you might not like them, a lot of folks do, especially when it's a commentary by somebody like Tim Lucas we're talking about) are thrown into the mix to boot- would you be okay with that? 'Cause thats clearly the case here.

Vincent

Although I recognize that for some it may be a matter of principle or shelf space, for me it's a purely economic concern, so I'll get both. Nobody pays full retail price for a DVD anymore, and between online sales and used copies I'm sure I'll be able to find the Dark Sky one for ~$10 within a few months of its release. That's the same price as a movie ticket, and I'm sure the commentary will be worth that alone. I'm also going to wait till the reviews are in on both to be sure the discs are OK.

To make it clear...I wasn't being snarky towards Tim (and the other folks that put in as much thought and effort into supplementals), but towards the bloat approach (sort of like that new Re-Animator thing coming along).

I agree that the VCI version of Kill Baby Kill needed to be replaced in the market, and look forward to the release. Maybe one is coming soon (I might have missed the news) for Twitch of the Death Nerve. I welcome buying a second version of a DVD if there is a concentrated effort put into improving the quality of the film, not just using the product as a vehicle for more documentaries and the what-not.

Essentially, I'm apologizing for posting a peeve in the wrong thread...I may have my issues with the corporate approach to handling a lot of the movies I love, but that isn't the case here. Sorry.

I would think that BAY OF BLOOD (TOTDN) would be included in Vol. 2...I would hope, at least...

"I should mention that the CANDY SNATCHERS commentary is one of those rare occasions when a commentary's value as insight into the production and the lives of its participants far outweighs the value of the feature itself."

Well, then, you haven't listened to a Jim Wynorski commentary! It's a rare occassion when the film itself is worth listening to with the volume up. But seriously, with many low-budget films, I would say it's safe to say that the story of how they actually got the film up on the screen is often more compelling than the tale they're telling on-screen...

I like Retromedia's SCALPS commentary in that respect.

On the other hand, though I find EVIL DEAD and NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD compelling on their own, I also like their commentaries which I sometimes put on when I'm doing other things just for a listen without watching the screen.

For a second AB Bava set, let's hope that the AIP version of BARON BLOOD is included with the Italian version. I prefer Les Baxter's score to Cipriani's.

I try to maintain a youthful outlook, but prospects like this -- entertaining as they may be -- make me more conscious of my goof-off time's reality as precious sands in the hourglass.

I agree, Wynorski's (and Fred Olen Ray's) commentaries are consistently entertaining and often informative, but they're more like larks, like kicking back MST3K-style with the filmmakers. But CANDY SNATCHERS...well, let's just say it's the only time I've ever heard someone cry on an audio commentary.

I will buy any DVD that has commentary from Tim. His stuff is generally much more informative than than most director commentaries, which are usually off the cuff and consist of anecdotes rather than insights. And not every director/producer is as engaging a raconteur as David Friedman, the king of this kind of commentary.

In fact, Tim's tagging of Les Baxter musical cues from BLACK SUNDAY to their later incarnation on Baxter's LPs opened up a whole new world of exotica lounge music appreciation for me. It was Tim's commentary on the DVD of WHIP AND THE BODY that inspired me to substitute in my horror film class a running movie commentary for the traditional term paper assignment. The difficulty many students had with this helped to underscore just how challenging this kind of writing about movies can be.

So, cheers, Tim! Many thanks for your great work, and I can't wait to hear you on KBK.

Thanks, Kevin! That's a nice message to wake up to.

So you're saying what, Tim? That it's noon and you're just getting up? Jeez, Donna needs to keep you on a shorter leash. . . :P

Hey, the leash couldn't be any shorter! When we work until 3:30am, we feel like we've earned at least a movie together... and before you know it, it's 7:00am. We actually got a call from a worried neighbor today because our car hasn't been out of the garage in over a week.

I'm picturing the neighbour as Jimmy Stewart, and Tim as Raymond Burr.

For Aussie poster, KILL BABY KILL is on SBS TV this Thursday. I've never seen it, so I'll prolly tape it, and if it doesn't give me some sort of religious epiphany, prolly just get it on th AB boxset.

The SBS version is okay, a decent widescreen print with good Italian subtitles, but I'm sure both DVD's will look a lot nicer. The English dub track is probably worth a listen too.