An interview with Jacques Herlin
» Posted by: Frederick Durand , 10/28/2001, 12:30:15 post reply newest index
Greetings everyone,

Sometime ago, a good friend of mine, french writer Pascal Françaix offered me to translate an exclusive interview he did with Jacques Herlin. I translated it and submitted it to Craig Ledbetter (ETC). But, as you know, ETC sadly passed away a few years ago.

I just found the file in my computer and thought you might read it. So here's my « newcomer » gift to all of you. I hope there's not too much syntax/grammatical errors there, as english is not my main language.

Enjoy....


Interview with Jacques Herlin - conducted by Pascal Françaix ; translated from french by Frédérick Durand

Jacques Herlin belongs to this european comedians family who, from Howard Vernon to Paul Muller, from Philippe Leroy to Klaus Kinski, have never hesitated to pass the frontiers to play a role. If his name is not as well known as those of the other four globe-trotters named before, his filmography is as rich as theirs, and his face is familiar to many fans of popular italian, french or german cinema. He was directed by the greatest (Bava, Fellini, Visconti, Beineix, Ferroni, Ivory) and by the most obscure ones (Lenzi, Marischka, Gottlieb). He illustrated himself in many different genres of action cinema : western (Texas, by Tinto Brass), sword & sandal (Maciste, l'eroe piu grande del mondo, by Michele Lupo), the fantastique (Mario Bava's La frusta e il corpo), the spy films (Frank Reed's Tom Dollar), the eroticism (Devils in the Convent, by Franz Antel), the prehistoric adventure film (Ironmaster, by Umberto Lenzi)... But it is in the comedy genre that he has found most of his roles, through the highly lucrative series of austrian films directed by Franz Antel and Walter Boos. Still today, Herlin profits of an enviable popularity in the german-speaking countries where these productions are regularly shown (with success) on TV.
Born in France, in Toulon, he began in the theatre, under the patronage of the notorious comedian Pierre Fresnay. He appeared in a few films destined to a limited audience, where he went by the side of many great names of french cinema, like Arletty or Simone Signoret. At the beginning of the sixties, he went to Italy for a play of Ionesco : Tueurs sans gages... He was quickly remarked by the producers of Cinecitta. A mad lover of Italy, he stayed there until the fall of the national cinematographic industry. During 20 years, he never quit the lights of the projectors, and he occupied a choice place within the circle of french actors immigrated in Rome. He reluctantly went back to Paris in the beginning of the 80's. There, he started a second career, less prolific that the first, but more diversified.
Today, Jacques Herlin appears on TV and treads the boards too. He even gained a great success in incarnating an old nazi, nostalgic of the uniform, in a videoclip that was primed at various festivals (Anne ma soeur Anne, a song written by Louis Chédid)...
I had the chance to meet this warm and enthusiastic actor in his parisian apartment, near the Montparnasse Tower...

J. H. : I was born in 1927 so I'm now 70, unfortunately. I grew up in Toulon, and I went to Paris in 1951. I studied dramatic art for one year, in the class of Raymond Girard (he's now dead). It was a very good course - Belmondo and Françoise Fabian attended it. I've lived for 18 months in Belmondo's apartment ; I was cooking and giving him the cue to prepare his beginning at the Conservatory. We were very close friends. Then, I found myself in a young theater company, where I didn't get any money. I was living in a small chamber : the classical line of any young comedian. It was hard, but I was happy in that business. I did a lot of representations in France. We were playing « classic » plays. It lasted one or two years. I was learning my craft.
One day, I decided to play in Paris. I knocked at the door or every theater, there. Of course, everyone was laughing at me. « Are you crazy ? It's the rehearsal ! Come back in 15 days, if it flops and if we decide to prepare something else... If not, come back in 6 months. »
I had begun visiting the « middle-sized » theaters... The last one I had to try was the Michodière, that belonged to François Perier and Pierre Fresnay. When I arrived in front of the artists' entrance, I saw a dozen of guys holding manuscripts. I thought : « Something's happening...» The stage-manager appeared... Usually, I don't have plenty of cheek, but this time, it was different. The stage-manager asked me if I have an appointment. I said : « Yes, I've called Pierre Fresnay yesterday night. He told me that it would be easier to come directly to meet him here. » « Very well, come in. » I found myself backstage, and I vaguely saw, in the dark house, the head of Pierre Fresnay. The stage-manager presented me : « Here's Mr Jacques Herlin, who called you yesterday. » I arrived alone on the floor. The floodlight was turned in, and I heard, from the house, after a silence : « OK... Well... You've come on the guts ! Very good ! Come, and sit here. We will watch these young people, and you'll pass after ».
So I sat near him... You imagine ? What a stagefright, mixed with horror and excitation ! All the guys did the same scene, learned by heart (I learned, afterwards, that 300 comediansauditioned to get the part, and that it was the last day). The twelve persons I saw that day were the « finalists ». From time to time, Fresnay did a commentary : « No ! Drop that line » ; « Be more intense »... Of course, I was listening carefully. At the end, Fresnay asked me : « And you ? What do you want to do ? You can read the text quietly in a box, and come back in 20 minutes or you come back tomorrow ». I said : « I will pass in 20 minutes. Honestly, I'll never find the courage to come back tomorrow ».
I went in the box, studied the text, thinking about Fresnay's indications. 20 minutes after... The Fear ! I didn't know the text by heart, I was reading it and the stage-manager was giving me the cue. At the end of the scene, where Fresnay had interrupted the other comedians, he didn't stop me. I continued to read until the end of the first act. Then, I heard Fresnay's voice : « Well... Very good. You can send back all the others. Mr Herlin, can you come tomorrow to sign your contract ? ».
And that was my first play in Paris, with Pierre Fresnay and Yvonne Printemps.
After that, it didn't stop. I've done theater for 10 or 12 years.
In 1962, I went to Italy for a play... While I was in Rome, someone offered me a film... It was a very talented man : Elio Petri. I fell in love with Italy... I thought : « I will stay in that adorable land... I'm well paid for a nice role. »... From then, I did one role after another, I met a girl, and for 17-18 years, I never stopped. Really. One film after another. I had an enormous luck. It really started with a film of Lattuada, La Mandagora, where I had only one day of shooting. My name wasn't even on the titles... I didn't care. I loved my character, who had a completely crazy dialog. The film was a critical and commercial success.
My agent soon called to tell that I was offered a new role... And then it never stopped : Fellini, Visconti, Dino Risi...
At the time, Italy was producing more films than the USA... Almost one by day. 360 films by years... Then, in a great measure because of TV, it was a free fall. You can have access to 40 or 60 channels... The italians were suddenly only producing about thirty films a year including 15 porn flicks, in which I couldn't participate not for moral questions, but because it classifies you...
There were no longer jobs, neither for technicians, nor for actors. I decided to return in France because I was no longer doing theater, in Italy... I took 3 years to fully take my decision. I was so happy, in Italy. I had cash, a little car with folding hood, a great apartment with terrace and barbecue, my friends... I knew what was waiting for me in France, I'm not stupid ! Every year, I visited my friends in Paris, and I was seeing 80 % of unemployment, stress, sad people... And, to start all over in a small room, at the age of 50, it hurts ! But I did it as I had no choice, because the fall of the italian cinema is still continuing, 15 years after its beginning.
I call my italian period « the great holidays »... I never stopped working, but I was free. I had the sea at 20 minutes, the ski at one hour, there were 7 stations ! So excuse me but I needed balls to start all over. I did it, I don't regret it, because I haven't stopped working. Not in the same conditions, of course. When I come to Italy or to Germany, after all these years, some people still recognize me... I still exist there... In France, honestly, nobody recognizes me in the street. But I work well...

P. F. : There were a lot of french actors in Italy, during the sixties.

J.H. : Yes, indeed. I arrived there after some of them I don't remember their names. I met one and we became close friends, I'm talking about Philippe Leroy-Beaulieu. I even lived in his house. We played in a Tinto Brass western, in Spain : Yankee. Brass was an extraordinary character. It was very sympathetic. Tinto Brass is an intelligent, cultured, talented guy but I'm not accusing him ! totally sexually obsessed ! We were friends, we were dining together... He was telling me : « When I send a screenplay to a producer, I always put, inside, many pictures of naked gals. With that method, I'm sure he will at least read 2 or 3 pages. The producers receive a lot of scenarii, so they don't even pay attention... But with my system, they turn a page, and they say : Oh ! Nice baby ! », and they will turn the other pages, and maybe they will be interested by the story » (Herlin laughs). He was very intelligent. As most of the italian screenwriters and directors, he was politically on the left (I'm too). One day, in a western, just for fun, he put a hammer and a sickle behind a waggon of pioneers... It was for the movie fans... Those who would see it would see it and that's all ! I find that kind of things very amusing.

P.F.: You did only one film with him ?

J.H. Yes... I was supposed to do a second one, but I refused. I don't remember what it was.

P.F. : What has Philippe Leroy become ?

J.H. : Well, I recently had some news about him from a friend, Françoise Prévost. She will maybe soon do something with him... He still lives in Italy, but often comes to France.

P.F. : You did a lot of films in Germany. Did you also lived there ?

J.H. : No. I did the voyage out and in. I had « easy » roles, with funny and crazy characters. The girl I was living with at the time was german. I brought her with me, and she did the simultaneous translation... By idleness or siliness, I've never learned german. I only know a few words. I never had any problems, as the germans were very correct : they sent the screenplay, I had two weeks of shooting, I took my money and I returned to Italy. I don't want to be cynic : that's the way that it was.

P.F. : You have played in a film directed by Mario Bava...

J.H.: I don't remember. I once received a letter from a guy who's preparing a book about B-movies and actors like Pierre Brice. I answered, I sent a photograph, and he talked about Mario Bava... I knew that name, but I don't remember having worked with him.

P.F. : It was in The Whip & The Body (aka What), with Christopher Lee... You were a pope with an enormous beard.

J.H.: It's impossible to answer... I've done so much films... To tell the truth, when I came back to France, in 1982, I had the chance to work immediately. My agent from Rome called me : « Jacques, do you want to make a film ? I must warn you, it's a piece of shit, but it's very well paid ». I said : « OK »... And I found myself with Mr. Muscles from New-York, a big but very sympathetic jerk, who was smearing himself with oil before each take. It was a prehistoric kind of film... Just before the shooting, I asked : « Please, don't make me wear only a small loin-cloth ! I'm so meagre ! » Of course, I was doing a sorcerer, with some beast skin on me ! And during the shooting of a scene, there was this terrible thing : I suddenly divided myself into two... I was seeing the scene from the outside... I was seeing that big Mr. Muscles in front of me... The Beeeaaast ! And me, in front of him, so thin, with my skinny arms... And then, I started to laugh... I excused myself, I asked to have one minute left... And I laughed ! I told to myself : « It can't be true ! What am I doing here, doing the jerk with Mr. Muscles in front of me, with a beast skin ! » I took a breath... And I continued my job !

P.F. : That film... It was Umberto Lenzi's Ironmaster

J.H. : Umberto Lenzi ! Absolutely ! It was the last big shit I've done in Italy.

P.F. : Nowadays, we realize how the B-movies of the sixties were inventive, dynamic...

J.H.: You're absolutely right. All the directors loved their job... They had an extraordinary knowledge of it... Even for a small film, it wasn't : « I do my job, I take my cash and goodbye ». No. There was research, a love, really... A lot of westerns were shot near Rome, in a small studio, representative of the « typical little town »... Someone told me that a director had a very little budget to do his film... He had to shot a fight-scene with all the town ! He had some figurants, not much... He had a scene with two horses, ass to ass, and two guys on it who were fighting. Each of them fell on a side of the horse... Then, two other guys arrived and... It was the same guys ! In five seconds, they had changed the hats, had a false-beard put on, another jacket and they began again !!! (laughs) With two guys, it was like if they were 15... It was very funny.
Another fun story : in Spain, a big american western was shot at the same time than a cheap italian B-movie. The director, during the shooting, moved his camera, and « stole » the apparition of 500 figurants who were at 2 kilometers from there : cowboys, indians... When the cavalcade was over, he turned back his camera on his own italian actors ! (mad laughs) It's genius ! The kind of thing that kills me !

P.F. : I discovered you in « La Tante de Frankenstein » (Frankenstein's Aunt), a superb TV series that paid tribute to the great figures of the fantastique. You had a marvelous role.

J.H. : I'd like so much to have it on tape ! I didn't know when it was shown on TV... One of my sisters told me : « Jacques ! We've seen you ! It's amazing ! » I've never seen it, because I never go to the projection of the rushes... But when one does its job, one knows if it will be good or just OK. With « La tante... », I was under the impression that we were doing a great job... Everybody had that impression... The director was crazy, in the good sense of that term.... A poet... An ex-painter, a friend of Fellini... I had a lot of fun.

P.F.: When I watched that series, I had the impression that everyone had a great complicity on the set...

J.H.: It was good, except with Viveca Linfors, who hated the director, from the first day. During the dinner, she was saying : « ‘Scuse me, but as far as I'm concerned, you are a shit ! I've signed the contract, but I'm not in accord [with you]. My character will smoke the cigar during all the film, even if you don't like it. Go and fuck yourself ». As for me, I liked Viveca... She had been a huge star 30 or 40 years sooner... Now she teaches dramatic art in the USA... She liked me a lot... But her caprices !

P.F.: There was also Ferdy Mayne, in the role of Dracula...

J.H.: Yes ! A charming man... An old sympathetic homo[sexual]. The Englishman, in the good sense of the term... There was also Eddie Constantine. Very friendly, but quite jerky... We were going for dinner, and sometimes he asked me : « Why don't you say that I'm formidable ? » What could I say ? The shooting last 7 months, in Tchecoslovaquia.

P.F. : What about La lune dans le caniveau ?

J.H. : It allowed me to know Depardieu, to know director Jean-Jacques Beineix I had not a great « feel » with him, I must say. An excellent technician, but too sure of himself. He sharply said to the operator : « No ! You don't know your job ! » It's the only time I worked with Depardieu, a really sympathetic person ! He was telling me incredible stories before the takes (Jacques Herlin imitates Depardieu) : « So, ya' see, that gal has extraordinary boobs » and as soon as the director said : « motor », he was playing intensely, with tears in his eyes. After the « cut ! », he was continuing his story : « So, as I was saying, the gal has extraordinary boobs... » !!! No concentration, before the takes ! Nothing ! Just pure instinct ! I had a scene with him were he was swearing at me, I almost feared him, I was almost sure he was going to smack my face ! There also was the charming Nastassia Kinski it's quite funny, because I've known her father. I worked with him, I don't remember in which film, in Holland. He was pissing everybody off... It seems that, in the middle of the desert, where we have to be careful in order to not drain off the reserve of water, Kinski wanted champagne ! « If there's no champagne, I don't shoot anymore »... Caprices ! He was hated by the profession... I've known Nastassia when she was 5 or 6 years... Between this and La lune, she had become a huge star...

P.F. : Which of your roles do you prefer ?

J.H. : On film, it was Mondo Candido... It's Voltaire's Candide. I was doing Dr. Pangloss... Six or seven months of shooting, but the film was a mess. It wasn't bad, but there was errors during the editing...

P.F. : There were three directors : Prosperi, Jacopetti and Quarantoto.

J.H.: No ! Not Quarantoto. It was for another film... Jacopetti and Prosperi worked together... I had an hesitation before doing Mondo Candido... These guys were more or less fascists. They did a mondo flick, Africa Addio... They filmed torture scenes without intervene... It's a monstruous side : while you're tortured, I'm doing nice pictures ! The producer I knew him well was communist. We were friends. I asked him : « The role is marvelous... But these guys are slovens ! Almost fascists... » He told me : « The film has nothing to do with their ideas. I've read the screenplay there's no fascist discourse in it. I'm doing it, and I've been communist for 30 years. You can go for it. » I did it, and I don't regret it... I had fun during seven months !

P.F. : Did you ever refuse a role because of political reasons ?

J.H. : No, but that's an old question : Can you play an S.S. ? I did it, but the play wasn't fascist. If someone offered me a « lousy » thing, even with a beautiful role, I would say : « fuck you ».