First, this is my last diatribe on the subject. On to more creative things like Lego DS guns.

Second, email me offline, and I’ll tell you a valve type that will work to handle “air” flow in the ranges needed. (Note: my email provider has massive spam filtering and autokills a lot of messages if it suspects a server of spamming-- just in case you don't get a reply. I don't know what’s in the commercially made DS gas guns out there-- and it's definitely a commercial enterprise. With a minor design modification-- you’ll have to figure out-- it would work in the application you have in mind, should you choose to misapply the info. But the valve's not rated nor intended for the application you probably have in mind, or are, I suspect, the ones in the commercial DS guns. It's not safe, but then, no DS gas gun is safe.

Because none were immediately available (I'm big on instant gratification), I decided like another poster to this list to "build my own damn gun." In hindsight, I was very fortunate. I'd have spent a lot of money on something I considered to be a fun party toy, that wasn't. I'd played with my "Big Bang" canon on the forth of July, and my brother has a working miner's lamp. So the concept wasn't unknown.

The more I researched, the more alarmed I became. I worked as a pyrotech crew chief for a commercial display fireworks company for fifteen years, so I'm pretty comfortable around explosive chemical reactions.

http://home.comcast.net/~elliotts12/images/fireworksweb.jpg

I know how to build star shells, electronic firing devices, my own mortar tubes, etc. It quickly became apparent these functional DS guns are not toys. Unlike miner's lamps, they use high chamber pressures involving an explosive gas. Repeat. Explosive. Fire a Big Bang canon sometime, keeping in mind that this "toy" uses the same stuff in a DS gun. Also, a DS gun burns at thousands of degrees. You can add an additional toxic chemical to make the color pretty.

Can DS guns be made safe? No. They can't. Safety can be improved over the original design, but they can't be made safe. When I realized the level of danger it all ceased being funny or amusingly confrontational. The only people who ought to even own one are those who collect props and don't use them, or people who design and build their own and don't use them, except carried empty as part of a costume or alone in a big open field when the grass is wet. In the research, testing and construction, one will learn the nature of the beast. I freely admit I'm still in the learning and testing phase, but I already know it's criminally irresponsible to haul one of these out and fire it when there are other people in the area. People get paid for taking that risk in movies, but not at parties. It's my theory that there have been no spectacular accidents only because so few of the gas guns exist. You're trusting someone else's engineering.

Knowing what I do at this point, I can honestly state I'd never buy one except a screen used prop for its investment value (and of course, never shoot it). Really want one? Make it yourself. You'll respect it more. If you can't, then you shouldn't have one.

I'm going to make a DS gas pistol because it's an interesting challenge. Will I do all the machining? No. But I'll do some of it. (I assume you're all aware that this design could be CAM programmed for CNC machining and someone could literally do most of the metal work in his or her sleep.) I'll do it the old fashioned way, because I'm not mass-producing them, and I like working with metal. I will make the control assemblies myself, absolutely. Oh yes. It will be a whole lot cheaper than the commercial variety. Lastly, I wouldn't sell one, no way.

So my advice? Avoid putting yourself in line for a ripoff like the people who shoveled money into dsprops in their attempts to acquire a dream. Avoid putting yourself at risk with a dangerous piece of hardware that's absolutely not a fun party toy.

Get one from Richard Coyle that's stone accurate, and uses a lightbulb to fire. Or make the Wilco! Models kit. Or scratchbuild a plastic one. Lots of options. Learn the line between fantasy and real consequences. You're not Logan#-- he only exists in the movies. But a working DS gas gun is far too real.

If you get creative, for example integrating components from a Lazer Tag gun, or building a DS shell arount one, you could actually have DS shootouts that were fun and safe.

But if you see loaded gas guns come out in a room at a con, do your drinking elsewhere.

I have to agree with 3dddmanabout the risks...

If you think we are kidding, just for fun watch York firing his Sandman Flammer, watch his face adn look how low he holds it.

He is more and more afraid of it.

With good reason.

Tell you what we will make a special offer for all here, $225.00 plus $10.00 shipping with in the US.

Rich

Im' not afraid of my Working Pistol! :lol:

I will say that they do have the capibility to be dangerous in some peoples hands.

It is a prop that is not for everyone thats for sure!

i will not sell out the maker of my gun to someone intelligent,yet so dangerous!!!i doubt and hope that someone here will.how dare you steal someones perfections!!!you are a menace.you have made me decide not to post on this site anymore ,whoch is something i have enjoyed doing before you came along.you kindly asked me to post pics of inner workings,which i considered to do.until you said that you would exploit them on this website.you are in the utmost violation of this sites rules.you havew made me decide that as long as you are part of this community that i can be no longer.i will no longer post here.you are a danger to the site,the community,and all that have ever wanted a working flame pistol.good luck with your web site may you mass produce what many have sought after your own way !!!!you have ruined this comminity for myself and others.be happy in your conquest!!!!!only somone whose screws are so much out of whack would post as much as you have!!!!! :angry: :sandman: :angry: :sandman: :angry: :sandman:

Funny how we will talk about every aspect of a prop, how it was made, what the found parts are and so on, (trust me I know of this…) but ask how a working Logan’s Run flamer works here and all of this happens.

All 3dddman is saying is he feels we should be open about how these guns are made, that he feels that a person should make his own, that for someone to make and sell one to another fan leaves the builder open to major lawsuits and possible total lost of income home and belongings.

And knowing how laws are working nowadays, like the Farmer who lost his ranch in AZ for defending him self from Illegal Immigrants, IF ANY thing should go wrong with a flamer, say your little boy should play with it and burn down your house, or it blows up in his or your hand, well there could be a big lawsuit.

3dddman feels that anyone who has made one and it worked, should share how he made it work so others can learn from this information and perhaps then be able to make a safer model for them self.

Granted it is almost like asking the Government to take their taxes off gasoline so the price would roll back to around a dollar, just an’t going to happen. Neither wants to give up a good income, and sadly he should have know that and not asked.

And as none of the builders who have done so would tell, he (wrongly, perhaps) asked for pictures of the inners of these guns.

But considering the dangers and risks involved perhaps he was not so far off base asking for info. So he would not burn down his home of set himself on fire…trying to make one.

On the other hand telling may not be all that good either, as having this information might lead many into trying to make one and unless done by a machinist, a poorly done valve system even done correctly can leak and malfunction, well that can also go badly, so I see all sides.

So a sharing of infomation should not be done here in the open, where children might see, but best by email, one propmaker to another.

I can tell him I have seen most of the working flamers, JJ of Texas had a machined main body with the gas system built into it to stop the body leaks the movie gins where know to do.

DS Props just made a bigger match o lite valve styled valve and used a bigger spring, you could not pull the trigger unless there was pressure in the chamber, and in my book made it a unsafe prop, for you may not be able to burn off the last of the gas pressure, and would have to open a pressured chamber to clean and reload.

So that leaves only one builder who is still willing to make a few, he wants to keep his hard won information to himself, and I feel that is his right as well.

But I think 3dddman's heart is in the right place, he does not want to make a run, he just wants to make one working flamer for him self, safely and dislikes how no one will tell him how to do that.

And that isi what he is telling everone to do, if you want one, build it your self, than you will only have your self to blame if anything goes wrong

So I say ip529, stick around, don’t let one discussion make you so mad, make you leave, it was and is still “Only a Movie” stick around and enjoy the company.

After all this is a forum, for talking.

My 2 cents.

Rich

It's nice to see that someone can understand why I have this rule on my site. Thanks for that post, Rich. It sums up many of my own personal views on this subject, as well.

jp529 - I have talked to 3ddman and he understands the rules of this site concerning this topic and will abide by them. Please don't let what has passed ruin your experience here. I hope to see you again around here in the future...

Wow . . .I thought "flame gun" meant a prop, not controversy about a prop . . .