When Jessica leads Logan to her friends using the ankh, does Logan use his communicator to send a message to the sandmen before entering? Even though he knows Francis is after him, is he still on his mission to destroy Sanctuary at this time, and if so, when does he truly stop being a sandman, and become a runner?

I think Logan truly becomes a Runner after the Ice Cavern. He must have known at this point that none of the previous runners had escaped Box and therefore none of the runners had reached Sanctuary. His mission should have been over at this point, but he continued on, by doing so he became a real runner... :thewave:

I had this discussion with another member a few months back in this thread --

http://s8.invisionfree.com/Logans_Run_Circ...hp?showtopic=28

I agree with Guest above - that it isn't until the Ice Sculpture scene that Logan finally becomes a runner and abandons his mission to seek and destroy Sanctuary.

I'd say that sounds right, and surely by the time he and Jessica are skinny dipping in the waterfall pond and find their crystals are clear, he has ceased to be a sandman.

So, Why didn't Francis 'see the light', and realize the truth when he saw the damaged Box, the thawed out bodies, and afterwards the outside world?
Maybe if he had a chance to frolic with Jessica in the water, he would have changed his mind too! :lol:

At first I thought Logan had become a Runner earlier than the basement scene in which he contacts the Sandmen with his communicator. When he attacked Francis in New You and took off with Jessica,it seemed like he'd made up his mind.
But then he contacted the Sandmen in the basement and I realized that he was still working with the Sandmen at that point. It's just hard to believe that when he crowned Francis in New You,it was all just a rouse for Jessica.
But I believe that Logan became a Runner after the Ice Sculpture scene,too.
The thing that always makes me wonder,though,is since Logan was obviously still a Sandman up until Box,why didn't he tell Francis what he was doing? Since he contacted the other Sandmen from the basement,Francis knowing what Logan was up to would of made sense.

It seems this and a few other questions may have been answered in cut or unfilmed scenes, but we probably won't ever know for sure.

I gather that he was so shaken by the fact that the computer revealed the unaccounted runners and the truth about renewal, that Logan was weighing his options, and knew Francis well enough to expect him to look at both sides of the problem.

True. But in the basement when Francis looks through the mesh at Logan and says,"Hey,we all go crazy sometimes",Logan should of realized that Francis still didn't know what was going on,even though Francis knew that Logan had just contacted the other Sandmen on his communicater.
At the point where Francis looks at Logan through the mesh and talks to him,part of me just wishes Logan would of ran over to Francis and clued him in.
That whole idea is very confusing.

After seeing the movie several times (lost count by now), I believe that Logan became a runner when he was attacked by 'Doc' in New You #437. He knew Francis would follow him till the end. When they had reached the basement, and Jessica told Logan," they are watching us now", he automaticly, due to his training, summond his fellow Sandman for aid. Anybody who has had 'training' will know what Iam talking about, its a reflex action when he hit the panic button.
Of course, after taking 'the swim' with Jessica, I believe ,even I would become a runner!! who wouldn't?

There are so many unanswered questions regarding when Logan really became a Runner. Maybe the scenes that were cut or never filmed shed some more light on this subject.

I don't think he's ever working with the sandmen. I think from the moment his lifeclock is advanced in the debriefing, he sees himself and his assignment as separate from whatever the other sandmen are doing. I think that in his mind he feels that if he cooperates with the computer, he'll somehow still get his four years back. After the debriefing, he has all kinds of doubts about all he's ever been told or believed, as well as after he's started running to Sanctuary, but he doesn't even tell his closest friend what his assignment is because he may jeopardize his ability to complete it.

He's seen what the computer can do when it takes four years off of his life span - so he answers to it only. During the debriefing he specifically asks if he'll get those four years back. When he doesn't get an answer, he decides not to take any chances by telling anyone what's happened, or by not going through with the assignment.

He mentions it to Jessica after they have been outside a while when he says "it all seemed to make sense until Box". Even up to the ice cave, I think he still thought there was some sort of place called Sanctuary and he could destroy it for the computer - to finish his assignment - to get his four years back.

I think he becomes a runner only after he's outside. It isn’t until then that he really starts to comprehend that everything he’s ever believed may not be true.

There are just so many possibilities. Maybe even the original script before the cuts would of answered these questions. It just seems like one moment we're certain Logan has become a Runner,but then a few scenes later,it seems like he's not.

I am currently on a weeks hols and with not much else to do decided to watch LR again again.... and i am not too sure about when he became a true runner being when he met box.... he signalled for the other sandmen to come to the basement just before he went in..... but when he tried to send Jessica back to safety and she then says something along the lines of '' i just want to be with you'', i think at this point and a little after when he actually kills another sandman (when they blow the walls in) is when he becomes a true runner..... for Jessica really !!!

I think for the first while, Logan thought he'd get his lifeclock set back once he found and destroyed Sanctuary, so he definitely was working undercover for the Sandmen. And I believe that he pushed that button to alert the Sandmen because he tought that behind that door was Sanctuary - remember he sounded surprised when he got through the door and asked "so this isn't Sanctuary?". Once he found out that there was still a ways to go, it was too late - he had already called in for back-up, so he keep playing along to keep his cover.

As for why he didn't clue in his pal, maybe he couldn't without alerting Jessica. And I'm not sure when he truly became a runner - you guys are probably right about it being after the ice caves.