Someone brought this up in the thread about the Highwind scene and I thought it deserved its own topic. They said something along the lines of: "If the Highwind scene was so romantic, then why did it not have its own FMV?" I thought about it a lot and you know what? This does make sense. :D

Highly romantic moments in FF games are usually highlighted with an FMV, especially when it is reciprocated love. The scene in the cockpit between Squall and Rinoa in FFVIII did not receive an FMV. Why? Because Squall was still uncomfortable with expressing himself to Rinoa. You could tell that he cared for her, but Rinoa was the only one openly expressing it. However, later, when Squall rescues Rinoa, and they are reunited, you have an FMV of them hugging each other-- a reciprocated love. Later, at the end, you have an FMV of them kissing on the balcony at Balamb Garden. Again, a reciprocated love.

In FFIX, Zidane and Garnet are shown hugging each other tight in the final FMV-- once again, they show that they love one another openly.

In FFX, Tidus and Yuna are shown at the spring in a highly romantic moment of reciprocated love. They kiss, embrace, and caress one another. They are openly affectionate with each other.

So, what about the Highwind scene? If it was so "romantic", where is the FMV? Is this because it is not a moment of reciprocated love? Yes, I believe so. Tifa has feelings for Cloud, but he clearly does not feel the same when he remains silent. However, at the end, we see Cloud reaching for Aerith's hand at the beginning of the final FMV. Every FF game has a final FMV. However, the creators chose to include this moment between Cloud and Aerith in the FMV. The moment we see Cloud reaching for Aerith's hand is the only time in the game in which we see Cloud reciprocating the feelings of another. Cloud reaches for Aerith first, and then Aerith's hand appears from the Lifestream, reaching for him. This was the only romantic moment in the game, IMO. After that, we see the conclusion of FFVII with the rest of the final FMV.

So, do you guys agree or disagree with this theory?

I completely agree. I thought that was a good point when it was first brought up by Cloud's Girl (I believe). The significant romantic moments in final fantasies do seem to be played out in FMV's, and reciprocated love is necessary for a moment to be romantic. If the Highwind scene was supposed to be so romantic, then why wasn't it shown in an FMV?

This has nothing to do with the Highwind scene but I'm going to bring it before any rabid half-witted Cloti does: If I were a Cloti, I would probably counter this with "But what about the final FMV? It showed Cloud and Tifa on the cliff, not Cloud and Aerith? That's an FMV of reciprocated love too!"
Oh yeah? The hand reach scene shows otherwise. And so does his final statement "I think I can meet her there" Even when he's with Tifa, even when he's just rescued her, even when he has the chance to confess his so-called love for her, he thinks of Aerith. :cleris:

Yup yup! :lol:

And if the Clotis argue about Tifa hanging onto Cloud for dear life in the end as counting as an instance of reciprocated love, there's a little thing they need to take into thought.

If it was meant as a romantic scene between Cloud and Tifa, why does Cloud talk only about Aeris and not bother asking if Tifa was even ok at the very least? Oh wow, Cloud loves Tifa. It's so clear now. :rolleyes:

If that scene showed any conclusion, it would be that Cloud's thoughts are with Aeris. If he loved Tifa like Squall loved Rinoa, his number one priority would be Tifa's health and state of mind. And what does he talk about? Meeting "her" in the promised land. Also known as a place of supreme happiness. Does he ask Tifa if they could go to the promised land together? No. He says he wants to meet Aeris there. And lastly, Tifa accepts and agrees, showing that friendship should never be overlooked.

Romantic scene? Sure. When it involves Cloud thinking of Aeris. No chance, Clotis.

Hmmmm.... good call FF_G and Cloud's Girl (I guess you two get co-credit? lol) I'd never even noticed... but that is certainly yet another notch in our corner. And good job Kusari with immediately anticipating the Cloti counter-argument.

One thing that bothers me, though: why, do you think, didn't Square have another romantically-inclined FMV with Cloud & Aerith during the game?

I completely agree. Many Clotis *coughFryingPancough* argue that the highwind scene is the ONLY romantic scene in the game comparable to Yuna and Tidus' waterfall scene or Squall and Rinoa's flower field scene. A terrible terrible comparison. Like you've all already mentioned, the reciprocated love between the couples in other FF games are shown with FMVs...not with a plain scene, and what's worse, a scene that involves the dating mech. :rolleyes: :whistle:

Well..um...Wasn't the Highwind scene all about what they were saying guys? I don't see much of an opening for an FMV unless we wanted to sit there and watch those two talk for 15 minutes.

Love wasn't one of the main themes in the game. A lot of people mistake FFVII as being a huge love story. Square wanted the player to stay on track with the whole Cloud VS Sephiroth thing and they also left the little love triangle to symbolism and hints.

In other words, developing Cloud's story with his pain and "strife" was more important than throwing the player off with Cloud all of a sudden being capable of having a relationship with a girl, when he isn't in his state of mind.

And yes Sefie, it was all about Cloud getting over his past. One big conversation. :yawn: If it turned into something more than a conversation (and if there weren't three damn versions of it), I think Square would have made it into a pretty little FMV. But nothing happened and YOU are the one who chooses what is said, which renders the validity of that scene useless to any hints if Cloud and Tifa being a cannon couple.

To that I would have to say, "Sorry, but you are wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong... brimming over with wrong-a-bility!" LMAO!!!! :lmao: There was absolutely no reciprocation of feelings there. NONE. ZERO. ZILCH. ZIP. NADA. :devil: Cloud rescued a friend in deadly peril and then proceeds to talk about someone else. If anything, this confirms the feelings we saw from Cloud in the hand reach scene. :cleris:

It is my personal belief that Cloud and Aerith just didn't have time to take things that far. In other words, Cloud didn't have time to get to second base... or even first, for that matter. :lol: LOL! Aerith was taken away too suddenly. And I honestly don't think Cloud even realized he was in love with Aerith until she was taken away from him. After that, Cloud and Aerith had no other moments of physical contact... until the hand reach scene! :cleris:

Exactly. That is what I wanted them to think about. What, exactly, would an FMV of the Highwind scene show? The Japanese are all about actions, not words. Cloud's actions in the hand reach scene screamed his love for Aerith. His lack of action in the Highwind scene screamed how unattracted he is to Tifa. However, if the Highwind scene were supposedly "romantic", I think Square would have shown a short FMV of Tifa saying "Words aren't the only thing to tell someone how you feel" and then she and Cloud gazing meaningfully into each other's eyes. Then, they could have shown Tifa snuggling up next to Cloud and Cloud putting his arms around her. However, we see nothing of the sort. Cloud sits there with his arms crossed while she rests her head on his shoulder. He doesn't answer her when she spills the beans about her feelings. Cloud's silence says it all-- HE DOESN'T LOVE TIFA!!!!!! :devil:

Honestly, I don't think an FMV of that scene would show anything but a girl confessing her love to someone whom had given his to another. Unless Cloud has any feelings at all for Tifa other than just as a friend, he himself would have said so, right? :unsure:

I was wondering whether the scene of Cloud and Aerith staring at each other before Sephiroth stabbed her and the part where he lay her in the lake counts as an FMV to show that they cared for each other. If it did then atleast they had one time to show their unspoken love for each other :cleris: . But if it didn't then, oops :P .

Good job CG and FF_G! I think this makes perfect sense. ^_^

And about your concern Buhon. What about the FMV of Cloud lowering Aeris into the lake? There's no one else there except them and he's looking really, really sad. I thought that was so sweet, yet tragic.

That and the hand reach scene. Cloud actually looks hopeful for the first time in the game. It's soft and calming with a touch of Aeris's theme in the background. Then it suddenly shifts to chaos, and Cloud's infamous remarks about meeting Aeris in the promised land. ^_^

I've always considered the hand-reach scene to be the most romantic scene in the game. I find it far more romantic than the Highwind scene, and it is a scene of mutual affection.

Didn't the Moonglow lake scene in FFX start with Yuna and Tidus talking with one another? I think what people are saying is that there should have been an FMV of Cloud and Tifa embracing and/or kissing after their talk if it was intended to be a romantic scene, just like the FMV of Yuna and Tidus in Moonglow lake happened after their talk.

Yep, exactly... :cloud:

I think that the Highwind scene didn't had a FMV because nothing important happened on it. See in FFIX Zidane and Garnet, and in FFX Tidus and Yuna had a FMV because they showed their love to each other for the first time. Even if they had a lot of romantic moments before the ones that goes to FMV are the ones that count. The Highwind scene is indeed a romantic scene, but not of reciprocated love, so it can be told as a half-romantic scene.

agree! :D


Why is the Highwind scene even said to be "romantic"? those little 'hints' the CloTis point out are entirely up to you to decide, it's like theyre imagining things and making up stuff at the same time. And yaah since when did Cloud and Tifa have a romantic fmv, like both of them together? The first one was probably the Cloud falling down from the high place thing, ( that wasn't romantic ) and the other one's the falling cliff thing. IF it was romantic, I'd imagine Cloud to be looking into Tifa's eyes , full of concern for the girl. Fortunately, he WASN'T even looking at Tifa, but his eyes seemed to be looking at a distance, and he was thinking ... and thinking about what? Aerith. =D Cloud isn't super easy to read, but one thing for sure, the guy's cold and will push anyone who tries to be close to him. This happened with Tifa, he doesn't speak to her unless it's something that needs to be done, while with Aerith, he doesn't push her away. Why the Cloud putting Aerith to rest in the lake has it's on FMV is cause her death was IMPORTANT to Cloud and affected the game, plus Cloud greatly. okay the CloTis love three things, Highwind, Life Stream, and ending cliff scene. WOW. And All they did was talk, and it wasn't about their love for each other.

well, to me-- Asians, japanese read gestures, a word like "I love you", they won't be able to say it as easily as other people do. Maybe they'll hint it out or say I like you, but the word love is something way strong for them to use.

Lifestream- where the whole point is Cloud finding out about his past and not his so-called "childhood desire for Tifa to be his girlfriend"

Highwind- where all gestures of affection from Cloud depend on the Date Mechanism.

Ending cliff scene- okay. This is right after the hand reach scene with Aerith. He rescues Tifa. Who does he think of as he stares into the distance? Aerith. Not only that, he tells Tifa that he wants to meet Aerith. Under near-impossible circumstances.

Yeah, these three scenes are real romantic

:lmao: Like Kusari, I can never understand why some people find the ending romantic in terms of Clotiness.

I agree with you there. At first when I saw the scene where Tifa and Cloud fell asleep near the Highwind, I thought that they would end up together, but then I thought of the date that Cleris went on. That made me stop thinking that.

I actually find that in the end when Cloud says he wants to go meet Aerith, and Tifa says "let's go", it feels like Cloud never asked her to go - he was saying he wanted to go and Tifa was sort of like pushing herself in, making it seem that she was taking for granted that he wanted her to come along. I found that really annoying and I so wished Cloud would just let go of her and let her fall into the cliff. :mad:

Was it just me or did anyone else feel that way too?

You're actually off-topic here, yin-chan. This thread is about how the Highwind scene should have included an FMV if it was really supposed to show that Cloud loved Tifa, like the Cloti's claim. Romantic scenes in Final Fantasies tend to be shown in FMV, but the Highwind scene wasn't.

Maybe we should start a topic on the Final FMV, though? :rolleyes: I agree that Cloud saying, "I think I can meet her.... there" showed that he loved Aerith instead of Tifa.

Oh no!! I'm sorry!! I feel stupid now... T__T
Didn't realize it was that far off-topic...I'm so sorry... *bows* :sad:

Nothing to worry about, yin-chan. I see that others have thoughts about the Final FMV, too, so why don't we start a thread about it?

Another thing about the Highwind scene having no FMV - is that because the Highwind scene is so open to interpretation? The Cloti's like to think that Cloud and Tifa cuddled and/or had sex under the Highwind, but there's no conclusive evidence that they did. It's all open to interpretation. If Square had included an FMV of what happened under the Highwind, it would no longer be open to interpretation. The lack of an FMV would mean that Square purposely wanted the scene to be left open to interpretation - otherwise, wouldn't we know for sure what happened between them? :lol:

If there was any romantic scene shown in FMV, I think it was the hand reach scene. I've always found the hand reach scene to be far more romantic than the Highwind scene.

Actually, in FFVIII, most of the best and most romantic scenes weren't FMVs. The Ragnorak scene, the date and the promise in the flower fields were some of the most romantic moments in the game, but they weren't FMVs. They should have been though. The Ragnorak scene and the promise in the flower fields were wonderful scenes that should ahve had FMV. This is off topic, though.

The Highwind scene isn't a Cloti moment either way, though. There's so many different versions of it, it's like the gold saucer options. It was the only scene where Cloud talks to her alone and they basically needed to clear things up about his past and have a conversation. I wrote about an interpretation of it in the highwind scene topic.

but isn't it true that there are different versions of this very scene? I really don't see how a scene where one person tells another how they feel but the other doesn't respond the same way. Woluld u honestly think of it romantic if u confessed your love for somebody and they gave u a look like they were thinking .......... and didn't reply. I know I wouldn't see that as romantic. So how could it be a romantic scene in that case?

Yes, there's actually three versions. The dialogue is changed in two of them, and then there's a third version where Tifa taps her foot on the floor of the Highwind the next morning instead of beating the floor with her fists. Here's the second version where the dialogue is changed: Last Night Under the Highwind (Low Affection Version)

That's the way I see it, too. It's not romantic unless the feelings are reciprocated. If only one person is expressing their feelings, and the other person doesn't express mutual feelings, then it's not romantic.

I guess Cloti's consider it romantic because they assume that Cloud expressed his feelings to Tifa after the scene faded out. Trouble is, that's pure speculation. It's just as possible that Cloud told Tifa that he was sorry, but he didn't feel the same way. Or that he said nothing at all. Given how shy and quiet Cloud is, I think that's pretty likely. :giggle:

Yes, but, the scene on the Ragnarok and the date scene did not show reciprocated love. Why make an FMV of Rinoa flirting and snuggling with a very uncomfortable Squall? Sure, we know he loved her. But, he was not showing it at the time. And, to be honest, I don't see any reason for their promise to be an FMV either. It was just a few lines spoken in a flower field. :unsure:

However, the Highwind scene, if it were romantic, should have been made into an FMV. Wouldn't it make sense to create an FMV of such a "romantic" scene as Cloud and Tifa "snuggling under the stars"? :rolleyes: :puke:

I hadn't thought about this, but you are all absolutly right!
It's another proof that shows the game creators didn't think Cloud and Tifa should be together.

And in my opinion, the "romantic" scene in the game is Aerith's death.
How he goes through the trouble of taking her there and his sadness.. it made me cry a lot.
And what happens before too!
The things he says.. you can see his pain.. he loved her.

:cleris: :cleris:

I actually sorta agree with you. I don't know if her death is the romantic scene in the game, but I think her death is pretty romantic. Cloud's reaction alone was the half the reason I was crying. The fact that she died right in front of him, that the others weren't that close at all, that he caught her as she fell, that he was the one that lay her to rest... that he cried. In the first scene of the game, he's the carefree mercenary who doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself. But then, as he gets to know Aerith better, his heart opens up more. His dialouge in this scene is him completely letting go of his emotional barrier for the first time in the game. Aerith eroded at it, but this broke it down. I think that her death scene is when Cloud realizes that he loves her.

But there's also the hand-reach scene. This one is romantic too. The fact that he reaches out for her, he smiles. He loves her, and he just wants to be with her. It's sort of symbollic of how Aerith is always the one he reaches out to. And she's always the one watching over him. It's quite beautiful.

I guess Clotis don't see these scenes as romantic because they're bitter sweet. It's not like the hug in FF8 or the kiss in FF10. It's the kind of romance that makes you cry but not happy tears. They want something processed such as "sex under the Highwind." Too bad it wasn't in FMV unlike our romantic scenes :giggle: .