The Endless Forest scene seems to mark the point where Cloud finally decides to fight

From the Venice Film Festival summary

(somewhere else in the Endless Forest)

[Cloud]
Looks like I really can't save anyone to save my life, huh?
(TL note: Yes, pun intended, that's EXACTLY what he meant.)

Vincent, what's going on?

*They yap about Sephy, Jenova and Geostigma*

[Cloud]
Marlene, please wait for me a little while more.

A huge fight is about to break out. But it's not just a /fight/ fight.
You do know what that means, right?


[Marlene]
No, I don't know what that means!!


[Cloud's flashback]
---[Tifa]
Stop running away already! I know already!

Even if we do find the kids, there may still be nothing we can do for them!
Maybe we can't get them back at all, even! That's what you're scared of, right?


[WCM ~I think~]
Cloud...is this about you fighting again?


[Tifa]
...were we overcome by our memories?


[Cloud]
But I just stood by and let her get killed.


[Aerith's voice]
You and your laments...

How about if I say, "I forgive you"?---


(back to present)

[Cloud]
Do you think a sin can be forgiven?


[Vincent]
I've never tried.


[Cloud]
Try...

C'mon, Marlene! Let's go home.

(To Vincent) I want to see if I can be. Will inform you if there are results.


[Aerith's voice]
I've never laid any blame on you. Ever.
You came, didn't you?
That's really all I could ask for

------------
[Aerith]
Let's go...Cloud

[Tifa]
The strong feelings that we had two years ago during the final battle, feels like they have dulled somewhat now, two years down the road
But now, it seems as thought they have been re-ignited within Cloud

At first, Cloud comments about "not being able to save anyone to save his own life". Then he learns more about Geostigma...how it's tied in with Sephy, Jenova, the Lifestream...how it might eventually threaten everyone on the planet. Suddenly, he tells Marlene that a huge fight is about to break out but "it's not just a fight" I interpret it as "Kid, this is not just a physical fight, it's a fight with everything that's been going on in my head for the past two years" Of course, Marlene doesn't get that part ^_^

Then he has a flashback that reinforces his decision to fight:
Tifa states what he has never said--that the reason why he's running away is that he's scared of not being able to save anyone despite his best efforts . Once again, his guilt is taking over...he was never able to save Aerith...he's scared that this will happen again, that despite what he does, he won't be able to save the children. If what Tifa said is true (looks like it is) he chooses not to fight as not to have blood on his conscience again. :blink: Geez, Cloud's mind has a real bizarre way of working. If I were him, my conscience would be more disturbed if I did nothing to help the children. Well anyways...this makes me think that his decision to finally fight is much more personal than saving the kids (Oh and that he is not "fighting for his ladylove Tifa" as some Clotis might think :puke: )

Enter Aerith. In his flashback, she said she forgave him. After he has his flashback, he asks Vincent if a sin can be forgiven, and then he says he wants to see if he can be forgiven. ("Will inform you if there are any results", huh, did they translate that right? He sounds like he's talking about a mission :D )

I've interpreted this as:
He's realized that Aerith has forgiven him, that in fact, she has never blamed him. But he still feels guilty (Why...?) Now he's decided to fight for everything she died for...he's gonna fight so he can be "worthy" of her forgiveness and get rid of that guilt once and for all. And his sudden spark is fueled even further by the knowledge that Sephiroth may somehow be involved

I'm unsure of this interpretation. Besides, the translation may be inaccurate. But bad translation or not, the overall impression I got from this Endless Forest scene is:
He's fighting for the children. But just like in FF7, where saving the planet was just part of his mission, saving the children is just part of his decision to fight. It is also for a memory--for everything Aerith is and so everything she died for will not go to waste. But it's most especially for himself--to absolve himself of the guilt and to settle his hatred for Sephiroth once and for all

*whew* It's not easy trying to get into Cloud's head

well I don't really know what to say ... did you translate the whole thing by yourself =O ?? well anyway, I think Cloud still feels guilty because he hasn't found that peace feeling yet. He's not satisfied with just a simple "I forgive you".. it's not enough. It's like you broke your friend's cup, and she say's "it's alright, i forgive you" but in the end, you know at heart, that your friend really loved that cup ... maybe Cloud senses that Aerith's sad ..? Plus whatever you said, about the whole avenging and blah to be worthy of Aerith's forgiveness, is part of what I'm trying to mean.

I coudn't agree more ... Cloud had spent two years, guilt ridden and depressed. He feels bad mainly because he didn't do anything at all, or try to stop Sephiroth from killing Aerith. He probably thinks he's useless, un worthy and a terrible person to let Aerith die. In FFVII, he failed to meet Aerith again. In the ending, he said something like "I think I can meet her .. there", so with all this happening in AC, he might be thinking that this is his chance, to do what he couldn't have done two years ago. ...
Or something like that, I dont know :/

I may be wrong, but I don't think Cloud wants to be forgiven by Aeris, I think he's trying to forgive himself.

The fact that she doesn't blame him and that seeing him there before dying was enough just makes him feel worse cause she was so lovely and kind...how could he let her die?? He was right there, he could've pushed her aside or cover her, dying on her place. But no, he didn't moved an inch, he was frozen like!

I think that's what's on his mind...he's being a meanie to himself. o_0 But, considering all this, its hard to forgive himself. After all, he let his love die... It's not easy to deal with. :unsure:

That just about says it, I think. (and I really can't add anything, because it just about says it all anyways! Lol!)

Aerith, even though she never blamed Cloud, blah blah, her memory will never go away. I don't think Cloud's personality would allow that - he's a moper lol.

I think I lost my train of thought. Great.

Gah, does anyone have brain-farts like this too? ><;;

There was a time I had those, but it soon past. It'll pass for you too, so don't worry and try to keep focused.

Kusari, those were my thoughts as well.
He seemed to lose his will to fight, and noone seemed to be able to get him back up on his feet, except the flowergirl.

And even though he is fighting for the children, and possibly for the planet, it seemed that he wouldn't have done so without Aerith's encouragement. Yes, people might say CLoud is acting selfishly in this way. I agree he is, to a certain extent, selfish but who isn't? If anyone is to be selfish, Cloud has the right to be that. Who is to understand the emotional scar Aerith's death left in his heart? Like you said, Cloud might be too afraid to pick up his sword to fight again because he is afraid of failing again.
After the scene with Aerith, even though Aerith has forgiven him (kind as always our Aerith ^_^) , he still tells Vinny that he will try to repent for his sin. So I guess we can say that this forgiveness he is seeking for is his own, and he probably realises that to live his life fully, to help save the children and the planet are what Aerith would have wanted, and in doing so, he will not be letting Aerith die in vain. This will be how he can forgive himself.

crapness. Do I make sense? I am confusing myself. lol

I've had very similar thoughts about this scene, Kusari. You've stated it well. :rolleyes:

That part confuses me, too. Why would he feel guilty when he did everything he could possibly do to save her? It's not like Cloud just stood there twiddling his thumbs while Sephiroth sneaked up behind Aerith with the masamune drawn. Sephiroth's descent on Aerith happened in the blink of an eye in actual time - we just saw it in slow motion. Sephiroth still had a grip on Cloud's mind - he couldn't have moved if he wanted to. Cloud did everything that he could possibly do. So why the guilt?

Children will sometimes become angry at a parent who died. They're so afraid of their grief that they act out rather than cry. They show their feelings as anger because it's easier to deal with than their grief. Adults will do the similar things when they're unable to deal with certain emotions. People will sometimes display one emotion when they're really feeling something else. Is Cloud showing guilt because he's afraid to admit his love for Aerith? :unsure:

That's the way I see it, too. He has to convince himself that he's worthy of her forgiveness by fighting for what she believed. That way, he can "earn" her forgiveness.

I've seen a few sentences translated differently, but it looks pretty much the same overall to other translations I've seen.

I agree, but I'd also say that Cloud doesn't care if he dies in the process of fighting for this. He'll fight to the death, if that's what it takes.