Well, out of serependity in the ACF, a CloTi fan asked how would Cloud react if Tifa, and not Aerith, had died.

Then suddenly, something clicked in my head, there was a time Tifa almost died from Sephiroth, and it's in Cloud's flashback.

We all knew how Cloud reacted with Aerith's death. But what about Tifa's? In both fake and real memories, Cloud honestly thought that Tifa was killed when Sephiroth attacked her with the Masamune. Yet what did he do? Instead of angsting and shoulder shaking graphics, he kinda left her there, took the Buster sword, sort of confronted Sephiroth, then went back to put Tifa aside, and then run after Sephiroth. <_<

...Quite unromantic...

CloTis then claim Sephiroth was a bigger threat back then than grieve over Tifa. That is bull. If anything, Sephiroth is a lot more dangerous in the present time of the game (he has the Black Materia, dangit!), yet Cloud took time to angst over Aerith.

Cloud knew that Tifa wasn't dead when Sephiroth mowed her down like a chicken kebab. In the first/muffed up flashback. Tifa says... "You promised you would come... when I was in trouble."
This is part of Cloud's original memory otherwise it wouldn't have been there.
He wasn't in angst cause she was alive and just really badly wounded.

Actually after writing that... I'm gonna contradict myself.

Remember this scene?

*Cloud skewers Sephiroth*

Cloud: My town, mom, Tifa... GIVE IT BACK!!!

He cries out the ones who are dead except Tifa. Did he think she had died or not? Or was he just really pissed off?

AHHHHH!!! I'M CONFUSED!!! :blink: :/

Because when Tifa asked Cloud how badly she was cut Cloud replied that "I thought you were a goner... I was really sad." (in the Japanese version he said "I thought you were finished... it was sad.")

And yeah, I think in the real memory, Cloud thought she died because he added Tifa's name with his mom and his hometown, as well as saying to Sephiroth "Give them back!!!" when he stabbed him.

Zangan himself said in the letter that Tifa's wounds was so bad he had to take her to Midgar, which is a continent away), for medication. Which implies her wound is mortally dangerous, if she wasn't killed by that time, she is definitely dying.

Very good point, Anti-R. Cloud knew that Tifa was dying. We know that because Cloud said that he thought Tifa was a "goner" after the Kalm flashback. Yet, Cloud reacted very differently to Tifa's "death" than he did to Aerith's.

In Aerith's case, Sephiroth was right there. Cloud had every opportunity to kill Sephiroth, but Cloud rushed over to Aerith and called out her name, attempting to revive her. Cloud didn't turn around to face Sephroth because he was too overwhelmed by his grief.

Cloud just laid Tifa over to the side. She would have bled to death if Zangan hadn't saved her. (Which is another reason I find the whole idea of Cloud fulfilling the Promise to be ridiculous, since Cloud did not save her - Zangan did.) Why didn't Cloud try to find help for Tifa when he found her dying? Why not carry her back to town like Zangan did? If he were so in love with Tifa, wouldn't he have tried to save her instead of rushing off to fight Sephiroth?

After all, which is more important? Saving the life of someone you love, or taking revenge? Can't revenge wait?

Also, Sephiroth was standing three feet behind Cloud at Aeris' death, but he was in another room and up some stairs in the flashback. I would be more threatened by the guy standing RIGHT BEHIND ME <_<

Oh, yeah, Sephiroth is literally at his back, gloating. You'd think Cloud would at least be worried for that, but he was too busy crying over Aerith. Poor guy...

I couldn't see the same "devastated" reaction from him with Tifa, the girl whom he supposedly love. And both girls were harmed from the same guy with the same sword who's literally raising hell.

Zangan said that he used the Heal spell on Tifa many times on the way down the mountain and on their way to Midgar. He said he took her to Midgar in order to find a doctor he could trust since there were Shinra troops were all over Nibelheim after the fire.

Why didn't Cloud do that for Tifa, if he were so in love with her? Why did Square write it so that Zangan did it instead of Cloud, if Cloud is supposed to be in love with Tifa? Why did Square write it so that Barret rescued Tifa in Junon instead of Cloud? Did anyone besides Squall ever rescue Rinoa? <_<

Yeah, I actually have a big rant regarding this on my LTD page. :whistle: Here it is:

Let us compare Cloud's reaction over the death of Aerith with another time when he believed that two people close to him were injured and/or dying:

Zack: A close friend of Cloud's from SOLDIER, Zack was brutally attacked by Sephiroth and left to die. What was Cloud's reaction? Nothing. He picked up Zack's sword and went after Sephiroth. He said nothing. He did nothing for Zack. He showed no emotion.

Tifa: A close friend of Cloud and the other half of the "love triangle". Tifa was viciously stabbed by Sephiroth and left for dead. Cloud comes across Tifa lying on the steps of the reactor at Nibelheim. She is bleeding severely. What does Cloud do? Does he hold her close? No. Does he scream in rage and anguish? No. Does he weep? No. All Cloud does is set Tifa to the side. He says nothing to her. He just leaves her there to die. And, yes, Cloud did think Tifa was dying, later admitting that he thought she was a "goner". Tifa herself stated that she was surprised that she had survived the incident. Cloud admitted that he was "sad" that Tifa was dying. However, his sadness was not enough to break down his cold exterior and open the emotional floodgates as we see during Aerith's death. In fact, if it had not been for Tifa's teacher, Zangan, she probably would have died. Zangan was the one to stop Tifa's bleeding, not Cloud. Zangan was the one who carried Tifa down Mt. Nibelheim to get her much-needed medical attention, not Cloud. Now, compare all of this to Cloud's reaction at Aerith's death. It should be CLEAR which of them Cloud is in love with.

I think the reason for Cloud's nulled reaction to Tifa untimly demise has to with the fact that she is not the only victim close to him whp perished.

In less than 10 minutes his mom, his friend, Tifa and all the residents of Nibelhiem were killed. Being smacked by so much shock, pain and grief all at once can have a delayed affect on emotions. (Trust me I've been there). :ermm:

Also because there was more than one person who he cared for was butchered by Sephiroth the anger and need for vengence is bound to overwelm someone. Zangan himself said that after no longer being able to help the villagers he vowed to kill Sephiroth himself. He came across Tifa by sheer luck.

the small but extremly powerful "GIVE IT BACK!!" speech let us know exactly what Cloud's reactions and emotions were. I think he did love Tifa at this point in time (Hell, she was the reason he wanted to get into SOLDIER). But later on when Aeris hit the scene he couldn't choose between them.

I disagree. Cloud also dealt with the pain and shock of losing Aerith so suddenly. And, yet, he didn't pick up his sword and run after Sephiroth, who was standing right beside him??? :blink: Cloud picked up Aerith's body and held her close, weeping, trembling, and screaming. He didn't show any emotion for Tifa whatsoever. I think that, if he truly loved her, she would have been foremost in his mind. Her safety would have been the most important thing to him, as we saw with Aerith so many times. ;)

Also, it is my belief that Cloud never LOVED Tifa at all. Maybe as a friend... but romantically??? No. And Tifa did not display any interest in Cloud until he mentioned joining SOLDIER and becoming as powerful and famous as Sephiroth. Then, suddenly, Tifa becomes interested in Cloud. Why? Simple, she wanted to be associated with someone who was powerful and famous. Not only that, but she wanted a famous "hero" to rescue her one day. And so the promise is baseless and selfish.

Also, let us not forget that Tifa had to BEG Cloud to make this promise in the first place (yes, asking three times is considered begging). I mean, what do you call this, if not begging...?

Tifa: "Come on--! Promise me----!"

Cloud said, "What?" twice and then, finally, reluctantly, agreed to it. Let us compare this to when Aerith asked Cloud to be her bodyguard. Cloud readily agreed to become Aerith's bodyguard in exchange for one date (and she only asked once, too). Compared with the "promise" made with Tifa, which Cloud never mentioned again, Cloud proclaimed himself Aerith's bodyguard in front of everyone, even Tifa. Even when Tifa asked him to fulfill his promise after joining AVALANCHE, Cloud did not remember the promise and, even when he did, he blew it off, telling Tifa he couldn't fulfill the promise. Does this sound like he was interested in being her hero?

This also makes me believe that it wasn't just Tifa that made Cloud want to join SOLDIER. I think Cloud wanted to impress Tifa and make her notice him because he had a little crush on her. However, I think he wanted to prove himself to everyone in town, including all of Tifa's snotty friends.

I also believe that Cloud made his choice very clear. At the end, he vowed to meet Aerith again in the Promised Land. And, Tifa bowed her head, accepting his decision. Her sadness was very clear to me. And yet she understands that she is not the one in Cloud's heart.

He didn't even know Tifa at that point in time... so how could he love her? Cloud also said that he joined SOLDIER for other reasons. He said that he wanted to become like the great Sephiroth, and he also said that he wanted everyone to notice him - not just Tifa.

Let's look carefully at Cloud's words during the Lifestream Event:

Tifa "Talk to me. About anything, some important memory to you..." "Now that you mention it, why did you want to join SOLDIER in the first place?" "I always thought it was a sudden decision you made......"
(Suddenly, the transparent Cloud high above speaks. Tifa doesn't hear.)
"......I was devastated. ......I wanted to be noticed."
(The Cloud of the well echoes these same words.)
"......I was devastated. ......I wanted to be noticed."
(The next words come only from the Cloud of the well.)
"I thought if I got stronger I could get someone to notice........."
(Tifa nods.)
Tifa "Someone has to notice you...? ......who?"
(The Cloud above speaks again.)
"Who.........? ......You know who! ......You, that's who."
(The Cloud of the well speaks differently.)
"You......"
Tifa "......Me? Why!?"
Cloud "Tifa...... did you forget...... about those days?"

Everyone always assumes that Cloud is talking about his personal devastation - his crush on Tifa that was never reciprocated. But when Tifa asks him what is he talking about, Cloud talks about the memory of her fall at the bridge. THAT's what he was devastated about. THAT's what caused him a great deal of pain and guilt. THAT's why he got into fights later on.

I think the bit about "I was devastated" refers to his memory of her fall at the bridge, not his personal devastation that she wouldn't notice him.

Notice that when Zack, his mom, and Tifa die, Cloud's grief is channeled through anger. His head is still clear enough for him to think about revenge. But when Aeris dies, he totally loses it. Even when Sephiroth is standing right behind him, he has his back to Sephy and he weeps over Aerith. Was he ever this emotionally wrecked when he lost someone else? Nope. He clearly has very strong emotional ties to Aerith.

YOU'VE HIT THE HAMMER ON THE HEAD THERE!!!

Cloud blames himself for letting Tifa fall and nearly dying that day. He says things like "my stupid weakness" and such and such. This indicates that he can't believe someone loved/cared about nearly died because of him. (Even though it wasn't).

I knw I may seem to support Cloti with what I've been saying, but trust me I don't. I'm just trying to analyse the situation from a non-biased perspective.

Yes Lost mercenary, I think you are quite right.
When little Cloud thought he was useless and unable to protect Tifa as a child, he reacted by wanting to join soldier and be like Sephiroth. A little kiddy thinking there, cute nonetheless. You know how a child is like. They want to prove themselves to be strong, to be able to protect their friends etc. That was how Cloud felt, I believe.

When Cloud thought Tifa, his mother etc were dead by Sephiroth’s sword, he reacted by wanting to kill Sephiroth. Understandable reaction, afterall he lost much. However, what he ought to have done, was at least to checked on her or help her to a corner *if Tifa had been the top priority on his mind*. But he did none, except to rush straight at Sephiroth (who was in the other room like Kusari said). Instead of Tifa, Revenge was his top priority.

When Aerith died, Cloud had an emotional breakdown, even when Sephiroth was just standing right behind him, he continued to mourn for Aerith. This is the degree of emotions we didn’t see for Tifa’s scenes. At that point in time, you can’t help but notice that Cloud didn’t care for the planet or Sephiroth for that matter, but Aerith and his own pain of losing her.
And I believed that is the gist of this thread ^_^

Hey, great points, you guys! I think you are right about Cloud wanting to join SOLDIER to prove to everyone that he wasn't weak (because he felt ashamed at his weakness at being unable to protect Tifa as a child). This makes a lot of sense and actually ties in with AC. Cloud "failed" Tifa back then, during a time he cared for her. And Cloud also failed to protect Aerith, the woman he had grown to care for a great deal, from harm. No wonder he feels so useless in AC and talks about not being able to protect those he cares for. :(

I agree with what you're all saying, but I was taking it even further than his devastation at letting Tifa fall at the bridge and how that relates to his problems in AC.

I'm pointing out that the words everyone takes to mean that Cloud has a crush on Tifa really means that he was upset about letting her fall at the bridge. When Cloud says, "I was devastated", everyone thinks he means personally devastated when Tifa didn't notice him. Because of that, they think Cloud had a crush on Tifa.

I think that "devastation" only means that he was devastated when he let her fall at the bridge, disappointed in his weakness, and ashamed of people's accusations. That's what the devastation was - not an unreciprocated crush. ;)

See, I never understood how it could be said that Young Cloud had a crush on Tifa. It always just looked like he was trying to use her as a way into the In Crowd

I got the same impression. I also wonder why he just sat there and said, "What?" twice, and then, "Oh, all right... I promise" if his crush is sitting there asking him to protect her. Doesn't it seem a bit odd that he's so reluctant?

I also find it strange Cloud forgot Tifa's promise... I mean, he CAN remember every line he read that lengthy letter in her desk, why not the promise?

Anyways, the whole Cloud's reaction towards Aerith and Tifa when they were harmed reinforced my believe on CxA more... and I hope SE keeps the subtlety...

I understood what you were saying, Aly. I was just pointing out that Cloud seems to feel as though he cannot protect anyone. This may stem from the fact that he was too weak to do anything to keep Tifa from getting injured as a child, and then failing again as a bodyguard to Aerith. I agree with everything you said, it definitely makes more sense than Cloud running off to join SOLDIER just to impress someone he has merely admired from afar. "I don't know you, but you look hot, so I am going to leave behind everything I know and get into a dangerous job just to impress you!" Riiiiiiiiiight... :whistle: I never understood why CloTis thought that. :rolleyes:

Exactly. That scene always seemed a bit... off... to me. :ermm: I mean, if Cloud was so hot for Tifa, then why didn't he jump at the chance to be her protector? :huh: He sure didn't hesitate when Aerith asked him to be her bodyguard (and he followed through with that vow later). :cleris:

AND being too out of it to help Zack after Zack had literally saved his life, AND failing to rescue his mother from the fire in Nibelheim.

Exactly... AND when Tifa asks him about what what he means, he tells about the what happened at the bridge. If he meant he was devastated that Tifa didn't reciprocate his crush, then why didn't he talk about gazing up at her window from outside and longing for her when she ignored him? He talked about the fall at the bridge and how he got blamed, so that must be what devastated him.

Exactly. If he was so hot for her, then why didn't he want to be her bodyguard and hero? He sure wanted to be Aerith's! :lol:

"Tifa didn't notice me so I was devastated"? Puh-leeze. Square created a game, not a junior high soap opera. Everyone's right, his devastation was caused by the consequences of Tifa's accident, not by her rejection of him.

Okay, let's say Cloud did have a crush on Tifa. If I were a guy and and a girl so blatantly ignored me and bullied me along with her pack of snooty friends, and then she suddenly has the nerve to ask me to be her hero the night before I leave her, I would be pretty frigid. My crush on her would evaporate in an instant. And this is just assuming that he had a crush on her!

I sounded a little angry in the last paragraph. I'm not attacking Tifa's character but I have always disliked her reasons that influenced the sudden need for Cloud to be her hero. Which is why I never did get what was so romantic about the Well Promise scene

That's why everyone thinks he had a crush on her. That, and the bit about he used to look up at her window from outside. Funny, I can't find that statement in the script. Maybe I should try playing that sequence of the game tomorrow to make sure. Oh, and the other thing that makes people think he had a crush on her is when he says, "......a sealed up secret...... wish......" "Tender memories...... no one can ever know........." Again, everyone assumes that his secret wish is to have Tifa as his girlfriend, and that the "tender memories" involve his broken heart. Now, put those words in the context of what happens during the Lifestream Event, as well as in the context of the whole passage:

"It's important to me...... I hate to say it but...... It's a very important memory......" "Do you want to see it?"
(Teenage Cloud runs over to stand next to the third and final Cloud. Past
him can be seen a window, without a building past it to look into. Tifa
speaks to the Cloud seated there.)
"......a sealed up secret...... wish......" "Tender memories...... no one can ever know........."

Okay, the important memory isn't a broken heart - the important memory is Tifa's fall at the bridge and how he got blamed for it. That means that the "secret wish" is that he had been strong enough to keep Tifa from falling. That also means that the "tender memories" are referring to something that hurt him. What hurt him? Getting blamed for letting her fall at the bridge.

Cloud's not talking about a crush that he had on Tifa. He's talking about her fall at the bridge.

I've disliked her reasons, too. Why the sudden interest, just because he was going into SOLDIER? She's interested in SOLDIERs, so she suddenly likes Cloud? That sounds terribly superficial to me.

I don't dislike Tifa, she has her flaws oh well :rolleyes: , but I dislike her fans twisting Tifa into some kind of heroine who was always there for cloud blah blah blah
I could not understand why do Cloti claim that Tifa truly loved CLoud as she knew him for a longer period of time while Aerith was only flirting (to one person and only one person is actually not really flirting) because he acted like Zack
I mean Tifa missed Cloud when he returned to Nibelhelm with Sephiroth and Zack!!! <_< I am thinking Tifa was too busy admiring the first class soldiers but hey, that's just me <_<
And the next time she met him, it was in avalanche. According to Cloti's argument, Cloud was acting like Zack. So Tifa never truly knew the real Cloud all these time. <_< AND she could not tell that it wasn't the real Cloud because she had never truly known him beforehand. The only thing that told Tifa Cloud wasn't exactly 100% sane was that his story of his past didn't telly with Tifa's. Behavioural wise, how was Tifa to know that wasn't the real adult-Cloud? - so question : who did Tifa fall for? :ermm:

Aerith, on the other hand, had this special ability to see through people. She could see a bit of Zack in him, yet she knew that the real Cloud was hiding just beneath that nochalant facade.

Well, if you take the idea that Aerith didn't fall in love with the real Cloud seriously, then Tifa didn't fall in love with the real Cloud, either. According to that theory, Cloud wasn't himself until after the Lifestream Event. But Tifa was saying she loved him in the Mideel Hospital, which is before the Lifestream Event. That would mean that Cloud wasn't the real Cloud when Tifa fell in love with him, either.

Tifa didn't know him well as a child, so she didn't get to know him in Nibelheim. When did Tifa get to know the real Cloud?

Take it even further - Tifa and Cloud only have six non-optional interactions between the Lifestream Event and the Highwind Scene. So if Aerith didn't fall in love with the real Cloud, then neither did Tifa. ;)

Cloud's muffed up personality are an issue when it comes to this. Was he the same person Aeris fell in love with after his incident inside the Lifestream? Who knows?

When Advent Children is realesed a lot of the questions above are going to be explained and hopefully the love triangle will have a resolution.

You know like Tifa dying or something. :angel:

Well, during the date sequence with Aeris, she seems ready to accept Cloud for whoever he really is.

(not exact quotes)

Aeris: Cloud, I want to meet you.

Cloud: ...But I'm right here.

Aeris: I know... what I mean is...

Aeris: I want to meet... you.

I don't think Cloud's personality was "muffed up" at all. He confused a few memories with Zack, but he never became Zack. Zack was a talkative, outgoing, cheerful, and helpful person. When did we ever see Cloud act like that?

Cloud was acting very much like himself at the beginning of the game in the Seventh Heaven. Remember the talk about him always getting into fights when he was a little kid? Well, look at how Cloud acts in the basement of the Seventh Heaven:

Cloud "If there was anyone from SOLDIER you wouldn't be standing here now."
Barret "Don't go thinkin' you so bad jes cuz you was in SOLDIER."
Cloud "......."
Barret "Yeah, you're strong." "Probably all them guys in SOLDIER are." "But don't forget your skinny ass's working for AVALANCHE now!" "Don't get no ideas 'bout hangin' on to Shinra."
Cloud "Stayin' with Shinra?" "You asked me a question and I answered it... that's all." "I'm going upstairs. I want to talk about my money."
Barret "Shucks!! ........money...."
Marlene "Papa. you're so great!"
(Cloud moves to leave. Tifa runs in.)
Tifa "Wait, Cloud!"
Barret "Tifa! Let him go!" "Looks like he still misses the Shinra!"
Cloud "Shut up!" "I don't care about either Shinra or SOLDIER!" "But don't get me wrong!" "I don't care about AVALANCHE or the Planet for that matter!"
Tifa "Straighten things up with everyone for me."

Television ......today the No.1 Reactor was bombed. The terrorist group AVALANCHE has claimed responsibility for the bombing. It is expected that AVALANCHE will continue its reign of terror. But citizens of Midgar.... there is no need to fear. I have immediately mobilized SOLDIER to protect our citizenry against this senseless violence. Thank you and good night.

Wedge "...Cloud." "You say you don't care, but you came to talk to me." "Cloud.... you just want friends." "Isn't that right?"
<CHOICE>
Blow off
I really don't care

Now, tell me... is that the personality of a kid who always used to get into fights as a child in Nibelheim, or is that the personality of Zack?

Note that Wedge tells Cloud that he just wants friends? Wasn't that true of Cloud in Nibelheim? Zack didn't have trouble making friends. ;)

To make things worse, Tifa has serious issues with SOLDIERS, as seen when she saw her father killed, and in the Junon ship trip (she used the word hate twice).

Kind of strange Cloud was going to do something Tifa didn't like...

Cloud left to join SOLDIER some 5 years earlier. What Tifa said doesn't really matter cause it was not reffering to Cloud.

Well when Cloud said "I want to join SOLDIER, then become a great hero like Sephiroth!"

Tifa merely swing her legs and reply "The great Sephiroth..." she doesn't sound enthusiastic at all by his declaration.

I guess in a way she resented ShinRa for taking away the few people that live in Nibelheim...

Actually, I think she probably was in awe. Back then Sephiroth was more of a hero, and I think that she trailed off because she was amazed that Cloud would want to try to be someone like him, with so much power and fame. I get the feeling that she probably idolized Sephiroth as well and had a crush on him in the way kids today crush on movie stars and such. But that's simply my opinion.

I dunno, when Tifa DID get to see Sephiroth, she literally bolted. Certainly not a potential groupie would do...

That's the way I saw it, too, Tacofoolio. I was under the impression that she ran away because she was waiting for Cloud to show, and she didn't think he was there.

Ye know, the Cloti's try to say that Cloud hid under his helmet because he didn't want Tifa to know that he hadn't made it into SOLDIER. If Cloud didn't want Tifa to know, then why did he go to her house? :lol: Plus, Cloud said that he hid under his helmet because he didn't want anyone in town to know. So I don't think he was hiding under his helmet because of Tifa.

Cloud cares that the town doesn't learn that he didn't make it into SOLDIER so he hides under his helmet, but he doesn't care if Tifa learns he didn't make it into SOLDIER coz he goes to visit her house. Doesn't that mean that Cloud tried to join SOLDIER primarily for recognition by the town rather than for Tifa?

Hm, that is a good point. Haven't thought of that...

Yeah. That's true. He had told everyone that he going to join SOLDIER and when he didn't and ended up as a measly trooper, the humiliation was just too much for him. He couldn't face either the town or Tifa.

Poor guy... :unsure:

Excellent points everyone

Just to backtrack on the conversation a bit -

I've never had a problem with the idea that Cloud had a crush on Tifa back in the Nibelheim days. In fact, I think he did, to a degree, and I think it was hinted at somewhat in many of the scenes that everyone has discussed. I think Cloud's boyhood "cush" on Tifa had a part to play in his desire to be noticed (by her or anyone else in Nibelheim), to find acceptance, as well as his guilt over her falling off the bridge. However, the "crush" was nothing at all like how many Cloti's see it. I think they blow it way out of proportion, since they seem to see it as the MAIN focus of the flashbacks and some sort of "foreshadowing" of their "eternal love". All potential evidence for it in the game is only in reference to their childhood/teenage years, and there is absolutely NO suggestion that Cloud thought much one way or the other about Tifa in his subsequent years in SOLDIER... at least until he returned to Nibelheim with Sephiroth (and I wasn't struck by any suggestion that he had any romantic interests in her then). In general, it seemed to me that there was a role reversal over time - Cloud becomes less interested in Tifa, and Tifa becomes more interested in Cloud. Also, Crush or not, it struck me that the Lifestream event and other instances of Cloud and Tifa mutually brainstorming over past memories had more to do with both of them coming to terms with painful co-associated memories from their childhoods than it was confirming their "feelings" for each other.

Just a thought - after the incident when Sephiroth destroyed Nibelheim, if Cloud thought that Tifa had been killed, how long had he been under that impression until he found out that she was actually alive? How many years was it between the Nibelheim incident and when Cloud arrived in Midgar after escaping from the Shinra Mansion?

Well, Cloud gets to see Tifa again in the train station. He recognized her immediately, and Tifa didn't (which is a big huh for me, since his hairdo literally stands out).

I guess his memories were jumbled until he gave his story to Tifa. This was then she realized that something was wrong with him.

Interestingly enough according to Tifa, Cloud was planning to leave soon (and this was why I also don't think of them as a couple), and she was forced to tell him about AVALANCHE, and since Cloud was influenced by Zack on the whole mercenary thing he accepted to join them as one.

Cloud was under the impression that Tifa had been killed for five years. That's how long he and Zack were in Hojo's lab.

The Cloti's try to claim that Cloud was unconscious in a tube of Mako all that time, which is preposterous. Being in a tube of Mako for that length of time would kill him. He obviously wasn't unconscious all that time, either, because he and Zack communicated with one another to plan their escape from the lab. They communicated by scratching on the side of beakers in the lab, and the scratches can be seen. So Cloud wasn't unconscious all that time.

Buhon - I'm going to copy part of what you said into the thread about Cloud's "crush" on Tifa, coz you have some interesting thoughts on it. I hope you don't mind. :rolleyes: The thread is here: A Crush on Tifa?

That's right... Cloud said more than once that he was planning to leave. At one point, he tells Tifa, "As soon as I get paid, I'm outta here". And after the Reunion, Tifa says this:

"But then I heard... you were going far away..."
(The screen finally goes to black.)
Tifa "And I didn't want that..." "I didn't know what to do. So, I thought I needed more time." "And that's why I told you about the AVALANCHE job."

But then she heard that Cloud was going away. Who would tell her that Cloud was going far away? :unsure: Why would he go far away if they were a couple in love? That's not the only point in the script where Tifa says that, either. She also says it in Cosmo Canyon.

Tifa "It feels like... It feels like you're going far away..."

Why would Tifa say that in Cosmo Canyon, and why does she repeat it later (after the Reunion)? :unsure: Could this be a foreshadowing that Cloud will leave her at some point to go to the Promised Land?

It could also mean that she and Cloud are drifting apart. By the time they arrived in Cosmo Canyon, Cloud had already began to care for Aerith. Perhaps Tifa recognized this? :ermm: