I was looking up the Japanese translation of any scenes in FFVII and I came across the date with Tifa. *Yuck >.>*

Look at what it says:

Tifa:(after a while) "It's so beautiful...
(looks at Cloud)"....should I say it..."

Cloud: "Say what?"

Tifa: "Aerith would have the guts to say it...
It's hard being childhood sweethearts Cloud... I can't get the
right timing "(smiles) <------(Added by person I guess)

Cloud: "Eh?"

Tifa: "Cloud...I..... "
(but the Ferris Wheel ride ends without her finishing this sentence)

So what the heck is with this translation??
WTH does she mean by "Sweethearts" .She just told Cloud that she liked him.

And by the time DoC comes around Cloud still hasn't revealed his "feelings" to Tifa.
ZOMGTRUELUVZEVRY!
is this whole Translation just BS or is it actually real?

Does anyone have any Translations of VII? I have to see what Aerith says on the Japanese version of the date.
Source of Translation:
Click Meh!

Considering they call Cloud "Claude" and Midgar "Midgard", I'd be inclined to disbelieve this. When you start translating Japanese into Engrish, anyone can say anything.

Hmmm, that seems a little suspect to me. Pairing bias aside the most likely partner for your date is Aerith, so I would be questioning why it's Tifa in the first place. Tifa would never refer to herself as Cloud's childhood sweetheart, she herself says "It's true we weren't that close" A little contradictory no? If they were childhood sweethearts, why would Tifa have to tell *ahem* Claude, that she liked him? :lmao:

I dont trust the translator, besides the fact that Tifa is super secretive about her feelings to Cloud, saying sweetheart is taking it a little to far, especially the fact she cant even talk to Cloud normally, like when she waits for him to sleep before she asks if he loves her. She's too insecure, to be saying stuff like that

ok thanks everyone that's what I thought.
Does anyone have a better translation?

I played the Cloud - Tifa date scene years ago, just so I could see the game from the Cloti's perspective, but I can't remember their conversation well enough to remember whether or not she said the thing about "childhood sweethearts" or not.

However, it doesn't really matter if she did. Traditionally, the evidence in optional scenes isn't used in LT debates, since different players get different dialogues. For example, if a Cloti said that Tifa called she and Cloud "childhood sweethearts" in the Date scene, I can easily come back and say that she didn't say it in MY game since Cloud went out with Aerith. That makes optional dialogue essentially meaningless.

That's why it's silly for Cloti's to use the Night Under the Highwind scene as evidence. It's an optional scene with at least three different versions of dialogue depending on the Date mechanism, so there's more than one way for the player to see it. ^_^

Well that would make sense xD
I've also heard that in the Japanese game Tifa asks Cloud to spend the night with her.(If you know what I mean.)

That's not true right?

:ermm:

Not in the Date scene. But remember when Tifa says: "Cloud... Words aren't the only thing that tell people what you're thinking..." in the high affection version of the Last Night Under the Highwind Scene? That's what she means. :P She says it in the NA version of the game, too.

Cloud only stares at her and says, "..........." in response, though. :lol: So what happens afterwards is left up to the player's imagination.

However, there is more than one version of that scene. Tifa only says that when the Date mechanism gives Tifa a high affection rating with Cloud due to choices made by the player. Tifa does not say it when her affection rating with Cloud is low.

Here's a script of how the scene plays out when Tifa has a low affection rating with Cloud: Low Affection Version - Last Night Under the Highwind Scene. BTW, the existence of that version is confirmed in the FFVII Ultimania Omega.

Remember what I said earlier, though - when a scene has different versions, it's silly to use the dialogue in any one version as evidence. The Cloti's have always used the High Affection version as their main piece of evidence. The mere existence of the Low Affection version totally invalidates their use of the High Affection version. :rolleyes:

So those were all optional . That explains why I didn't see those sentences when I played the game.Man I've been having Clotis tell me that those words happen no matter what.
Now I get why you say it's silly.It is lame to use optional scenes.
Thanks for directing me to that site.It cleared up a lot of fibs Clotis have said.
*Huggles*

:huggle:

Agreed, optional stuff shouldn't apply. So, what does this mean?

Cloud can *choose* to remember his promise to Tifa or not.
Cloud can *choose* to be nice to her.
Cloud *can't choose* to help Aerith, or to grieve for her. He *can't choose* not to help her, or to not rescue her. You *have* to rescue Aerith from Shin-Ra, you also have to rescue Tifa from the Don, but can choose how well you infiltrate the place. Well yeah, I suppose you do that with Shin-Ra too...anyway.

Cloud is always Aerith's bodyguard and always remembers that during the game, and she's his default date - you have to alienate her to date Tifa. That itself says a lot. So really, what non-optional, canon moments does Cloti have? Nibelheim, which takes place 5 years before the game even begins!

IMHO, if this huge debate over who Cloud loves had never started, it would be Clerith that SE was supporting, because it's quite obvious who Cloud loves in VII! Then they realize they can milk money off the LT, and we get CoT, Maiden, AC, and anything else they can do to throw oil on the fire.

The only canon way Cloti would happen is, as mention in another thread, if it's like Titanic where Cloud is with her for the sake of having a happy life but Aerith is still his true love. Or it may be part of Clerifa, but I'm a guy, so that's another topic altogether. :P

I think VII CloTi version is very optional in itself, whereas everything Cloud does with Aerith is pretty canon. The date, however, is a choice, so I try not to count that as any sort of evidence, unless a CloTi and I are comparing the differences.

CloTi: She almost said she loved him.
Me: Good for her. Aerith said she wants to "meet" Cloud.
CloTi: What does that even mean?
Me: I'm not 100% sure, but I know what I want it to mean.

Anyway, whether or not you get the date with Tifa and the player hates Aerith's guts, Cloud does care about the flower girl and he grieves for two years! He must have felt some kind of strong connection when he was alive, because I truly think he kept searching for the Promise Land just so he could be see her.

As for the CloTi date scene, I had always thought Tifa has said, "Old friend," which is somewhat true to an extent, whereas I don't think Tifa would ever say "Childhood friend," because that's not true at all. I dunno. I'm not playing the game just so I can see CloTi "true love," because I'm a brat and I don't really care, which is why I love Youtube, which is where I saw the "Old friend" thing.

Right on! I mean, if those CloTis have watched Titanic and adored the dynamics of Jack and Rose, and the fact that Rose keeps loving Jack even after death, well, then they're hypocrites, because of:

"Cloud and Aerith didn't know each other all that long."

Titanic- Jack and Rose fell in love with each other in the amount of three to four days.

"Aerith is dead, so Cloud can't love her anymore."

Titanic- Jack is dead, Rose continues to love him.

I know, I know. It's not wise to compare Titanic and FF VII to each other, but well, I think that Titanic can prove them wrong with the different factors of true love.

i agree with Drake Clawfang. there has been a lot of OPTIONAL scenes with Tifa. and a few optional with Aerith.

i just wanted to add something here...
you CANNOT change the first part of the ending in FF7 where he says "i think i can meet her... there." and the rest of his realizations about the promised land.

the optional scenes wouldn't count as 'proof' since they are optional. lol.

HAHA but AC showed us that AERITH WILL ALWAYS BE IN CLOUD'S HEART.
even Nomura said something like this right? plus in AC, aerith was there. SHE WAS THERE. if the ff7 staff concluded something like "Aerith is dead, so Cloud can't love her anymore." then why put Aerith on the film? why did she accompany Cloud during his battle? (and healing his geostigma) she was there all along. even Tifa knew that.
so having Aerith's death as one of the (cheap) proofs that CloTis usually use wouldn't make sense.

Exactly, reexchan. However, there are different interpretations about the ending, even though you can only play it one way. We take Cloud's statement to mean that he wants to find Aerith... Cloti's take his statement to mean that he thought they were all about to die because of Meteor.

SE never makes it easy! :lol:

Exactly. Nomura specifically said:

"As for Cloud…he sees Aerith several times throughout the film. It’s not that he sees her because he feels her presence. He sees her because her consciousness…lives on inside him." ~Nomura, Distance interview

The DoC game booklet also says that Cloud will never forget Aerith.

Before AC, Cloti's liked to believe that Aerith wasn't capable of manifesting in the real world, but AC sure proved them wrong on that! :pro: The point that SE has left up to speculation now is whether Aerith will continue manifesting in this world, or whether she will return to the Planet.

I think that one of the main reasons for believing that Aerith won't return to the Planet any time soon is Sephiroth/Jenova. As the last Cetra, Aerith has essentially inherited the duty of protecting the Planet. As long as Sephiroth/Jenova exists, she will have to continue protecting the Planet against their destructive influence. As Nojima himself said, "If Sephiroth exists, then Aerith must exist."

It's a common misconception that Jenova cells were wiped out by Great Gospel at the end of AC. However, that's not true. You can see the explanation here at the FFVII Citadel Forums: Great Gospel in AC. Jenova cells are still present in DoC, too. :rolleyes:

Therefore, I doubt that Aerith will return to the Planet as long as the threat of Jenova still exists.

Well said. If I recall, Cloud still has Jenova cells, and there's still Genesis who has G-Cells, which are derived from Jenova cells. And as AC has shown, as long as Jenova exists (and as long as the Compilation keeps making money :P), Sephiroth will never truly be dead, so thus, Aerith will have to continue to exist as well. Remember, the creators have taunted us with "the best is yet to come"...

FFAC Reunion files confirmed that it was Great Gospel that Aerith used at the end of AC. That isn't debatable. However it is debatable exactly what it did :P Like Aly I believe Aerith remains as a guardian of the planet :) Perhaps we'll see her in FFD as part of Cloud's story arc ^-^ Sephiroth's already there ^_
~

even if they take it as something like "his final message before he dies" it still screams Cleris to me. it would've been Cloti is Cloud said, "we'll be in our promised land" or "don't worry we'll be together" or anything like those lines. but he said nothing of the sort. instead he told Tifa that he wants to meet HER there. even if you see this message as a "message before dying" it'll be the same. it still shows that Cloud wanted to see Aerith in the end. no matter what kind of perspective you try to look at it.

if the Clotis are right about how they "take his statement to mean that he thought they were all about to die because of Meteor." , then that means he still thinks about Aerith even tho he thought he was going to die. he was hoping to meet Aerith before he dies. (instead if 'confessing true love' to Tifa XDXDXD) and i don't see how pro-Cloti that is. it actually supports Cleris. XD

if SE made it easy then all the Cleris would be living happily ever afterrrr! :D

YEAAHH. and i heard that she actually doesn't make a single appearance.

OOOHHH INTERESTING. :o i don't think Sephiroth is really dead either... he'll keep coming back alive as long as the jenova cells still exist. just like in AC (kadaj, yazoo, loz) and Cloud still has Jenova cells inside him... right? and thanks for that! :huggle:

yup. Genesis still has those G-cells. but i wonder why did his degrading stop? you can correct me if i'm mistaken.
haha that's what Sephy gets for killing Aerith! lols. so we'll be expecting FF7 sequels eh?

Exactly right. The point is, however, that Cloti's find ways to interpret it differently. Plus, Cloti's like to think that the High Affection version of the Highwind scene outweighs the ending, anyway, even though it's an optional scene. :lol:

No, she doesn't. However, Aerith was still described in the game booklet as someone Cloud would never forget. All that's said about Tifa is that she's Cloud's childhood friend and a master of martial arts. :lol:

Well, if you think about it... certain Cetra spirits maintained consciousness for hundreds of years while guarding the black materia in the Temple of Ancients, right? So, if given a "duty" of that sort, Cetra spirits do not return to the Planet. As the summoner of Holy, Aerith essentially inherited the responsibility of protecting the Planet against possible future attacks by Jenova/Sephiroth. As long as Sephiroth/Jenova exists, Aerith must exist.

EDIT: Actually, I've wondered if that's part of the reason Aerth resurrected Cloud in AC? I know many people feel that she did that so Cloud could live a life without guilt. However - I've always felt that Cloud and Aerith fight Sephiroth/Jenova together. It's the *combination* of Cloud's physical strength and Aerith's magic that's able to defeat Sephiroth/Jenova. In a sense, too, Cloud serves as a sort of intermediary for Aerith in the physical world. So, I felt that at least part of the reason she resurrected Cloud was in order to help her continue protecting the Planet.

Exactly right, Drake. I haven't played DoC, so I'm not sure about the details of Genesis degrading, reexchan.

Possibly. However, Cloud's story was supposed to end with AC, so I doubt that SE will provide more about the LT in any future Compilation titles. I wouldn't doubt that SE will continue to provide hints in games like Kingdom Hearts, though.

Reexchan

I've here stories saying that they never actually said "her" or something like that, meaning they were talking about all their dearly departed friends. This came from a cloti/zerith so its only natural they include everyone else to try to destroy the actual meaning of the scene.

Anastar

Well thats dumb =/ Using an optional scene to overide an actual canon scene is stupid D; I dont understand how that could work. The fact people can speculate all they want about what happened after the scene goes blank ( frankly i thought it was to show time has passed ) and the fact that you cannot change what Cloud says in the end should be enough for them that even when he's about to die, he thinks of Aerith.

Ah, wasn't that said in the reunion files somewhere? That if Sephiroth were to exists, it would only make sense if Aerith were too as well? And since Sephy is Cloud's rival for life ( at least i'd like to think so ) then Aerith must always be there forever by Cloud's side too right?

Hm, interesting though. Its like a continuation of their bodyguard promise but only this time, they protect the planet together. Its like Cloud and Aerith need each to survive in some way o.o

When SE said that Aerith will always be with Cloud at least in spirit, i thought this was because he seems to be lost without her. So in some way, they make sure that Aerith will always be there with Cloud to guide him <3

We talked about that in this thread about translations. From Chibica's translations, Dismantled clarifies that Cloud was really talking about meeting Aerith.

Yes, it was Nojima who said in the Reunion Files that if Sephiroth exists, then Aerith must exist. And Jenova is immortal, right? If Jenova is immortal, then wouldn't Sephiroth also be immortal? Also, according to the FFVII UO, Sephiroth was actually resurrecting himself of his own will in the Northern Crater after his body died at Nibelheim. Therefore, I wouldn't write Sephiroth off so easily. ^_^

It was also shown that the consciousness of Cetra can survive for hundreds of years. Bugenhagen heard the consciousness of Cetra speaking to him in the Forgotten City. Aerith also heard the consciousness of individual Cetra spirits speaking to her when she arrived at the Temple of the Ancients. Those spirits had been protecting the black materia for hundreds of years, and actually told Aerith that they had prevented their return to the Planet by the force of their will.

Therefore, if a Cetra is given a "duty" of that sort, they seem to be able to maintain their consciousness for lengthy periods of time. Wouldn't Aerith inherit the responsibility of continuing to protect the Planet as the last Cetra and summoner of Holy?

In a sense, yes. If you think about it, Cloud always defeats the physical manifestations of Jenova/Sephiroth, while Aerith defeats them on a magical and spiritual level. I think the *combination* of their strengths is needed to protect the Planet from Jenova/Sephiroth.

True, but the point I'm making is that it goes beyond the LT and their love for one another. Aerith maintaining her consciousness and not returning to the Planet in order to guard the Planet makes sense in terms of the general mythos of FFVII and AC. Besides being there for Cloud, there's very good reason to think that Aerith will maintain her consciousness for a long time. ^_^

AH! yes, i remember that now! Thats for the link again n.n

He just never seems to give up. What a creepy guy lol. If they were all immortal, then, Aerith cannot be counted out of the equation yet either right? All four, Cloud, Sephy, Aerith and Jeneva all have a link to each other.

Possibly, maybe she learned all this while she was in the lifestream and thus she acted in advent children. Did Aerith ever understand what the ancients said to her when she was alive?

Guarding the planet, that makes sense n.n But will she really have to do this forever? Do you think she's still guarding the planet 500 years later when red had his children?

ehhh? but it won't make sense for those who had the Low Affection version. O_o and i don't think Square (and any other game developers) will do an ending based on something that's optional. (except for games that has multi-endings like chrono cross, star ocean 2, etc. but all FF's have 1 ending.) they just don't wanna see/know the truth... even tho it's right there in front of them. XD like "ZOMG it's a Cleris! NUU *closes eyes*" LOL.

my thoughts exaclty! Aerith resurrected/healed him because 'he still doesn't have a place there' (as what Zack told him) he still got a lot of things to do... (protecting the planet physically, while Aerith protects it spiritually) so he can't die yet.

aww okay. thanks anyway!

yeah. the ending of AC is the end of Cloud's story which could mean no more LT hints. still, i find the ending Cleris and i'm happy with that. i know in my heart that they are the true and intended couple.
but KH sequels won't be coming for a while, i mean KH3. T_T they're busy with KH spin offs and prequels right now. but oh well we could wait...

alright i've read all that. IMO, i wouldn't really call it a 'mistranslation' but perhaps something that's improperly translated. all of it still makes sense actually, but the Japanese ones are just better. and pink spider already said it all well.

HAHA yeah! can't he be happy with his 'mother'? LOL JK.
and yup they are all connected. Sephy = Aerith. Sephy = Cloud. Cloud = Avalanche. Cloud = Aerith. Jenova = Sephy... etc.
SORRY i just wrote it all like that cause i couldn't find words to explain. XD

i think Aerith already received the duty to protect the planet. :) it all started right before she... dies. T_T or maybe right from the beginning when she joined AVALANCHE?

i think she'll have to do that until all the jenova cells and jenova... 'stuff' have been completely wiped out. cause as long as jenova is there, Sephiroth will always come back.


just a thought.... could the reason why Cloud is able to 'hear' and 'see' Aerith spiritually is also because of his jenova cells? Jenova is an ancient right? so Cloud has 'ancient' cells in him. and Aerith could talk to the Ancients that already passed away. or is it just pure love? XD

Kaleta

Aerith understood what the ancients said to her when she was alive. In the first place, Aerith said that she was able to speak to her mother after Ifalna died. In the second place, we see Aerith talking to spirits of the Ancients when she arrives at the Temple of Ancients with Avalanche:

Scene 80
- Temple Of The Ancients - Tseng's Meeting -

(Cloud arrives at the Temple of the Ancients. Aerith stands on the rope bridge before it, then falls to the ground.)
Aerith "This is... the Temple of the Ancients..." "I... I know... I feel it... the knowledge of the Ancients.. floating..." "You could become one with the Planet, but you're stopping it with the strength of will." "For the future? For us?"
(Cloud runs over and kneels by her.)
Cloud "What are you saying? Do you understand?"
(Aerith gets up and runs further into the Temple, stopping to stand on the stairs leading to the top.)
Aerith "You're uneasy... But happy?"
(She looks around at nothing)
Aerith "Because I'm here? I'm sorry... I don't understand."
(She runs back to Cloud. Only a sharp-eyed player will see a black-cloaked figure exit the door at the top of the Temple and slump to the ground.)
Aerith "I want to go inside!"

All of the passages in green are when Aerith is actually speaking to Ancient spirits at the Temple.

When Aerith says, "You could become one with the Planet, but you're stopping it with the strength of will", that's what the spirits of the Ancients are telling her. It means that those spirits have prevented their return to the Planet by using the strength of their will. Those spirits haven't returned to the Planet because it's their duty to protect the black materia inside the Temple.

Actually, Aerith was given that responsibility when Ifalna gave her the White Materia to summon Holy. Aerith understood what that responsibility meant, which is why she gave her life so that the Planet could be preserved.


reexchan

Exactly right - yet Cloti's have *always* considered the HW scene to end the Love Triangle, since they think the HW scene shows confirmation of Cloud and Tifa's love for one another. >_< It doesn't confirm any such thing, and the scene has at least three optional versions, but Cloti's like to see it that way.

If you think about it, it was Cloud who had the final battle with Sephiroth in FFVII *after* Avalanche defeats "Safer" Sephiroth. Cloud also fights Sephiroth alone in Advent Children. Nomura states in the Reunion Files that Sephiroth seeks Cloud out because Cloud defeated him in the Nibelheim reactor. So any physical manifestation of Sephiroth will seek Cloud out. On the other hand, Aerith is able to combat Jenova/Sephiroth magically and spiritually by summoning Holy, guiding the Lifestream against Meteor, and curing Geostigma. Cloud and Aerith work together to defeat Jenova/Sephiroth, so if Jenova continues to exist, then Cloud must remain on the Planet to deal with any future attacks.

Besides, Aerith is still able to be with Cloud regardless of whether he's alive or whether he's a spirit - right? They are still united regardless of their form.

Exactly.

No, Jenova isn't an Ancient. Shinra thought Jenova was an Ancient, but they realized later that they were mistaken. Ifalna is recorded saying that on the tapes to Professor Gast in Winter:

Ifalna "The one the Professor mistook for a Cetra... was named Jenova. That is the 'crisis from the sky'." "The Planet knew it had to destroy the 'crisis from the sky'..." "You see, as long as Jenova exists, the Planet will never be able to fully heal itself."

That's also confirmed in the FFVII Ultimania Omega. Jenova's not an Ancient.

At any rate, no... I don't think it's the Jenova cells in Cloud that makes him able to hear and see Aerith. I would say it's the Mako enhancement that Hojo gave to Cloud while he was being experimented on in Nibelheim.

SOLDIERs are Mako-enhanced, right? Mako is the Lifestream. Therefore, anyone who's Mako-enhanced has a very high level of Lifestream in their bodies. Aerith's spirit exists in the Lifestream, right? Therefore, her spirit is able to *literally* reside within Cloud due to the high levels of Lifestream within his body. That's essentially what Nomura told us in the Distance interview, too:

We took the ending of the game and expanded on that idea. Even if they’re dead, their consciousness is still with us. As for Cloud…he sees Aerith several times throughout the film. It’s not that he sees her because he feels her presence. He sees her because her consciousness…lives on inside him. ~Nomura; Distance Interview

hmm... that ancient must have been happy to see because Aerith he/she thought that she went there to protect to protect the black materia. but it felt uneasy at the same time for the possibility that Aerith might... die? nya just overthingking. XD

love for one another? no, Tifa's love? yeah i guess. but Cloud's love? NOWAY. but the way they think can't be helped. DX i remember when KH1 was released the Cloti's were saying that it's irrelevant because it's an AU and stuff like that. but when KH2 was released... KH series seemed to 'make sense' to them! :lol:

YUP. you perfectly said it! (it reminds me of when i fought Sephiroth in Crisis Core. gawd i hated the second battle. T_T) i haven't read the reunion files for a while. i need to reread it again. XD thanks! :huggle:

oooohh okay so it's not Jenova's cells but the the lifestream/mako energy inside Cloud's body. so jenova's not really an ancient. XD thanks for clearing that up.

and it was stated by Nomura that Aerith lives in Cloud's consciousness! makes me happy that it came from him. lulz. :cleris: