I just browsed through the thread for the Anti-CloTi Club and I noticed something Anastar said (I hope you don't mind me quoting you here) that I felt like discussing:

It just made me wonder; what does everyone think of Cloud's vow to be Aeris' bodyguard? How seriously do you take it? How romantic do you find it? How do find it different to the Well Promise (in terms of emotional relevance and importance as oppossed to the conditions in which both promises were made)?

I think I have a bit of a funny view on it...I don't actually take the initial promise from Cloud to Aeris all that seriously. It was a bargain, and a kind of spur-of-the-moment decision, so it doesn't strike me as overwhelmingly heartfelt. It's a light moment, that turns out to foreshadow later developments. But what I do like to focus on is the fact that it's a spur-of-the-moment thing. Spur-of-the-moment isn't exactly Cloud, is it? And I think it's important that his first light moment (his first series of light moments, in fact) are all down to Aeris. What I like thinking about isn't so much the promise, but how Aeris influenced him positively straight away and encouraged him to act in this impulsive kind of way, the way her presence instantly enticed him to act based on instinct and feeling rather than obligation, or the possibility of money.

Another thing: while I don't find the promise that heartfelt (as I find it too impulsive for me to personally interpret it that way), I find Cloud's devotion to that promise extremely moving. That's what I really love about the Bodyguard promise. Not only does it make these light moments between them, but as time goes by the promise becomes based on real feelings, and the way Cloud stands by his role as Aeris' bodyguard, not out of a sense of duty or responsibility, but because he wants to be there for her and protect her. :huggle:

I hope some of that made sense. I'm very sleepy... :yawn:

I have some more to say, but I think I'll leave the floor open to the rest of you guys for now! Talk, talk! ^_^

I've always wondered if it was because he

a. thought the date was a good idea

b. was trying to repay her for practically saving his life

c. was actually worried about her

I think it was a mix of c and b ^_^. He was partially trying to repay her, but he was also a little worriied about her. Cause she was like, being stalked by Turks, lol. That's a good point you made, though... And my opinion certainly doesn't mean much, lol. :lol:

Ooooh, a moogle!! :moogle:

Well it's definately not A! Cloud isn't a playa. :lol:

I agree with Hyper-Ballad. It isn't the promise itself, but how he follows through on it. ^_^

And I know this has been used widely in movies and games, but I love the simple idea that a guy (like Cloud) isn't scared of anything and is emotionless until the love interest enters the picture. That is when he becomes afraid and fights harder, only when she is in his thoughts, because he doesn't want to lose her. Think about it. He doesn't do this for Tifa. He wasn't all upset over her being slashed almost to death by Sephiroth. But when Aeris was stabbed, he reacted. And that is why he wanted to protect her more and more as the game went on. He was just able to hide behind the promise of being her bodyguard. :lol:

I do think it is romantic because Cloud readily agreed to protect Aerith for one date. :huggle: When compared to the "promise" to Tifa, which Tifa had to beg Cloud to make in the first place, this is pretty significant. I mean, even when Tifa reminded him of their "promise", Cloud didn't remember it and he sure wasn't interested in fulfilling it. He wouldn't even help out AVALANCHE until he made sure he was getting paid. So I really don't understand how any CloTi can claim Cloud decided to help out AVALANCHE just for Tifa, especially when he was so blatantly disinterested in her and their so-called "promise". Heck, I thought he was downright cold to Tifa. :ermm:

However, the thing I find most important of all is how Cloud faithfully followed-through with that promise he made to protect Aerith. :gift: He never forgot it and Aerith never guilt-tripped him into keeping it. He just genuinely wanted to protect her. He proudly proclaimed himself to be Aerith's bodyguard, even in front of Tifa. I don't think he ever even mentioned the "promise" he made with Tifa at the well... :huh:

Cloud agreed to be Aeris's bodyguard for free, but Barret payed him 2000 gil to stay in AVALANCHE. I think he prefers being around Aeris. He feels relaxed around Aerith and agreed to be her bodyguard because he wanted to, not because he was paid to.

I've actually asked some Clotis, and I haven't been able to get them to give me an instant when Cloud HIMSELF brought up "The Promise" with Tifa prodding him or whatnot ...

But he didn't mind bringing the Body Guard promise in front of Tifa. Cloud was like, "Aeris, you're safe?" because he was really worried, and then he realizes he's being way to open with his emotions and then covers it up by reminding her that he's her bodyguard ... I love it!! :D

The bit about the AVALANCHE thing made me mad. People call Aeris insensitive about the Gold Saucer incident with Barret, but completely ignnore Tifa making Barret pay to keep Cloud with Marlene's school money.

The bit in the Shinra jail cell shows how seriously Cloud was beginning to take his promise. When they're searching for her, he sounds pretty frantic as he asks about here whereabouts. And in the jail cell, "Aerith?! You safe?" he sounds enormously relieved, doesn't he?
Then "Hey, I'm your bodyguard, right?" Even if he's just using this to cover up his emotions, he still sounds pretty proud to be her bodyguard. It must have been a shock for Tifa to see him promising to guard another girl, especially since the Well Promise was significant to her alone.(Come on, she practically forced it out of him!) :D

I think his guilt in AC also has to do with how he thinks he failed to keep his promise to be her bodyguard. He wants forgiveness, right? (So sweet of Aerith to tell him she never blamed him) Also, at one point, he says "But I just stood by and let her get killed..."

It is kind of strange the cold arrogant Cloud would just drop the whole "I'm in it for the money thing" and then accept Aerith's job for one friggin' date. I'm also amused he'd apologize for lying on the flowers and he might be damaging it. I felt he was a bit different from the 7th Heaven attitude he was putting up. He apologized to Tifa too, but that was when he wants out and was literally on his way to the door.

And he was actually concerned for her, when he really shouldn't. They've just met. And the fact that Cloud seemed hesitant when he asked her regarding her former boyfriend. It was kind of like him echoing when Aerith was asking Cloud if Tifa was his girlfriend. It was a nice turnaround. XD

think about it...cloud is aeris bodyguard,,,,i think square do this beacuse its more thagic when aeris died...cloud was suposed to take care of her but she let her die..

another thing is...cloud would be her bogyguard in exchage of one date..i think, aeris date in gold saucer would mine thet cloud IS NOT ANY LONGER HER BOGYGUARD, his job ends there..so even if he not save aeris he was not his work anymore.... :(

When he made the promise to Aerith to be her bodyguard, maybe he didn't mean it to be as serious as it all turned out to be. Since it was spur-of-the-moment, he could abandon bodyguard duties if he got sick of Aerith or something. Good think he didn't.

At the end of the day, he became a real bodyguard anyway since he ended up getting attached to Aerith after all. Heheh...

....

:blink:

When Cloud first agreed to be her bodyguard, it was spur-of-the-moment, but he must have felt at least an attraction to Aerith to accept doing it for one date. As others have pointed out, it took Barret paying him 1500 and a promise of further payments before he agreed to stay and work for Avalanche. Even Tifa's reminder of the Promise wasn't enough to get him to stay. Cloud was ready to walk out the door until Barret handed over money intended for Marlene's schooling.

Although Cloud made the promise to be Aerith's bodyguard spontaneously, it became much more than that. Aerith offered to go out on a date with Cloud if he got her home from the Church:

Aerith "Then, get me out of here. Take me home."
Cloud "OK, I'll do it... but it'll cost you."
Aerith "Well then, let's see......"
"How about if I go out with you once?"
(Cloud makes an affirmative nod. He confronts the person.)

Aerith didn't ask him to become her bodyguard for life - just to get her home from the Church. Cloud continued to act as her bodyguard without being asked to in later situations. He assumed the role of Aerith's bodyguard because he wanted to do it, not because he was being asked to do it. Aerith says that she knew Cloud would come to save her in the Shinra building, and Cloud playfully responds that he's her bodyguard. When did you ever see him flirt with Tifa that way? And yes, that was flirting... Tifa even got jealous when she heard them talking about it.

Aerith "I knew that Cloud would come for me."
Cloud "Hey, I'm your bodyguard, right?"
(She walks to the door of her cell.)
Aerith "The deal was for one date, right?"
(Tifa sits up.)
Tifa "............oh, I get it."

So even if Cloud's initial promise to Aerith was spontaneous, it grew to be quite romantic between them. The role of Aerith's bodyguard grew to be of so much importance to Cloud that he feels to this day that he let her down. Cloud took the role of being Aerith's bodyguard very seriously because he wanted to take care of her.

But he forgot all about his Promise to Tifa. Why would he forget his Promise to Tifa at the well if it meant something to him? I don't buy the Cloti's excuse that the experimentation in Hojo's lab made Cloud forget about it because Cloud recognized Tifa in the Midgar train station before she recognized him. If Cloud's able to recognize her, then he would remember anything significant associated with Tifa if it was truly important to him. He didn't have trouble remembering a lengthy letter word per word that he saw on Tifa's desk. If Cloud can remember that, why can't he remember the Promise? The obvious answer is that it wasn't important enough to remember, especially when Tifa had to force Cloud into making it.

When Cloud first said "It will cost you" i was thinkin BIG MONEY BIG MONEY
then she said 1 date I thought Oh man he isent gonna take that for payment and he did so i knew there was somthing weird about the Body gruard promise i still wish he could have had cash to not as much as the Date though

that's an interesting observation Daga. While I definitely agree that there's a romantic element in the "bodygaurd" promise (which I found terribly sweet, by the way)... it also further emphasizes the tragedy of Aerith's death... and perhaps retrospectively helps to emphasize Cloud's sense of guilt at her death in AC? After all, Cloud says something about being unable to save anyone... and by being Aerith's "bodygaurd" he essentially assigned himself to the task of keeping her safe. Just a thought...

Actually, this Bodyguard promise, is one of the things that in the game, amaze me the most. See, Cloud was so, but so cold to everyone (including Tifa) that he accepted to be the bodyguard, of this girl that he didn't knew at all, by the cost of "One date".

It took Tifa, to make him fulfill his promise, and Barret to pay 2000 gil (wich were for Marlene's schoolin) for him to join AVALCHE, but for Aerith just costed one date!

He was so cold at that time, that it really amazed me that he acepted to be this girl's bodyguard, when he could easily have said "No, I've got things to do", or some other thing, or after she said that he would pay him with a date, he could have said "What? You must be kidding" or something like that. But for some reason, he agreed.

And not only that, after they escaped from the Turks, they had a very espontaneous conversation (that he didn't had with his childhood friend), and not only that he had this espontaneous conversation, with this girl he just met, but he also laughed, yes, he laughed, that cold blooded guy, laughed, and he never did again in the game (but I realized that some time after in finished the game).

Also going futher, he finished his Bodyguard duties by taking her safetely to her home, if ahe wanted to follow him after that, that was her problem, but NO!!! After she was kidnapped by Tseng, he rushed to ShinRa Inc. kicked everyone's ass, and saved her. And after he saved her, he reminded her, that he was her bodyguard, when he was no longer her bodyguard, since he had finished his duties as one, when he took her to her house.

But, also another thing that really amazes me, is how he seemed pretty determined in saving her, by the way he showed it, when he was in the elevator with Barret and Tifa. Also what they say if you choose to go by the stairs, instead of bumping abruptly, it went like this:
Barret
"Don't know... why the hell... we gotta climb..."

Cloud
"...because we don't want to start a commotion until we've saved
Aerith."
"I doubt that's possible though..."

Barret
"...heh heh heh."

Cloud
"Knock it off. You're giving me the creeps."

Barret
"So even you will fight for someone else. I had you figured
wrong I guess."

Cloud
"Who cares what you figured!"

Barret
"I'm just sayin' mebbe I was wrong..."

Tifa
"Heh heh heh......."

This speech really amazed me, becasue it was not only Barret, but Tifa, that seemed to figure that Cloud had some special motives to save this girl, and that were not only becaues he was a good buy.

That's a good point, Clerith-son. I remember thinking Tifa's laugh was a little odd at the time. But perhaps at this stage she wasn't fully aware of the "tension" between Cloud and Aerith? Before this scene, we had the scene where Aerith and Tifa both tell each other that their associations with Cloud mean "nothing" (in Don Corneo's mansion), and the scene in the jail cell ("The deal was for one date, right?".... "Oh... I get it") isn't until later.

Perhaps in the jail cell, that little scene between Cloud, Aerith, and Tifa, where Tifa says "Oh... I get it," is the scene where Tifa first realizes that Aerith and Cloud have a little "something" brewing between them...

Yeah, I think that's where Tifa definitely figures out that Cloud's very interested in Aerith, although there's a few other places where it's hinted at, too. For example, if Aerith gets picked by Don Corneo, there's an option of what Cloud says to Tifa. If you have Cloud say, "We've gotta help Aerith!!", Tifa says this:

Tifa "Hey, don't you even care about how I am? ......never mind, let's go!"

Also, after they rescue Aerith from Hojo's lab, there's a Boss battle and Cloud asks either Tifa or Barret to take Aerith someplace safe. Look what Tifa says afterwards:

(Boss battle with HO512)
(Aerith and Tifa/Barret run into the lab.)
Cloud "Aerith, you all right?"
Tifa "She seems all right, ...in many ways."

I think Tifa sounds rather jealous there, too.

^ Trust Aly to bring that up. :P :huggle: You and my cousin would get along just fine. :lol:

I love the fact that Cloud promised to be her bodyguard for 1 date. It was so sweet, the cold-hearted mercenary finally gave in. :cleris:

Now if you say it like that it makes it sound like Cloud is weak and Aerith was begging for the Date.........of course we all know thats not true :D
:cleris: :cleris: :cleris: :cleris:

Haha, good point. I remember being highly amused by that... and yes, definitely a big hint there. I was thinking in terms of the first non-optional situation where Tifa first seems to "get it" that CXA might have some sort of a "thing" brewing between them.

Haha, I had forgotten about that quote. You can just feel Tifa sizing Aerith up in this situation, can't you? Understandable though... she just got rescued by Cloud, and thus got to live out Tifa's fantasy in front of her. The twinge of jealousy would be understandable...

I agree Clorith... I really thought that was a nice touch to the storyline, and an interesting twist on Cloud's character... not to mention the sentimental factor, lol.

Is it just me, or did it seem like Square sort of dropped the ball on the whole "bodyguard" thing after the date scene at Gold Saucer? Did anyone else notice? I thought there were ample opportunities to bring that point up, such as after Cloud attacks Aerith after giving the Black Materia to Seph and, of course, after her death... to sorta emphasize the "personal tragedy" aspect of losing Aerith, as far as Cloud is concerned. I was rather disappointed that that was not utilized more. Anyone else feel the same way, or get the same impression?

Excellent quotes Aly. By reading this again, I don't know how those Clotis, can belive Cloud didn't loved Aerith, or at least more than he cares for Tifa. Is it that I'm close-minded or something, I really don't get em'? :no:

I love that fact too. :wub: To be honest, until that point I saw Cloud as very cold person, without emotions. When he awoke in Aerith's church, I thought that he would just thank her and go, but for some odd reason he stood there with her.

And then, when he promised to be her bodyguard for 1 DATE, I got really shocked, that was something that I never saw coming, it was then when I became a full brand Cleris. :cleris: :fanboy:

I think that they dropped it, because there was no point on continuing it. Also, remember that when you return to the Forgotten Capitol, when Bugenhagen makes Cloud see Aerith's death again, Cloud said that he now understood it, an then Cloud made another promise to Aerith, in wich he wouldn't let her sacrifice to be in vain.

Now that I was thinking of it, this is kind of off-topic, remember when, Cloud said that Aerith's spirit couldn't reach the Planet, because something was stopping her to do it. How did he got to know that? Also, remeber Cloud's final words "Finally, an answer from the Planet" ... "The Promised Land... I think I can meet her... there" Notice the word FINALLY, like if he had been requesting the Planet for that answer, many times before. May I ask, what are your thoughts on this?

Don't worry. You are not close-minded. You are just not delusional :D

Yeppers! It was the first time Cloud stopped doing things for money, like how he was in avalaunche.

Ooooh very very interesting observation Clerith-son ^_^
Finally...Cloud sounded like he had been on a quest for an answer from the planet for a long time, and with regards to meeting Aerith. It could probably mean that Cloud had been hoping to meet Aerith since the day she died. Even though he did not communicate that desire outright throughout the game, Clerises could see that Aerith had been on Cloud's mind (only fervent Clotis failed to see that :P) It was only in the final battle with Sephy, when he saw Aerith and reached for her hand, that he knew that the planet had finally given him an answer on how to meet Aerith.

I hadn't really thought about it before, but you're right... they did drop it. The last we heard about the bodyguard thing was in the Shinra jail cell. But perhaps they did that on purpose because Cloud and Aerith's relationship developed beyond that? If they had continued with the idea that Cloud was nothing but Aerith's bodyguard, then it would have portrayed their relationship as being based only on a contractual arrangement. Perhaps they dropped it because Cloud became more than "just a bodyguard".

However, the idea of Cloud being Aerith's bodyguard is very similar to Tidus being Yuna's guardian.

I've wondered that, too... and I think it's a good point. Unfortunately, it can be explained that Cloud knew she hadn't returned to the Planet because Holy hadn't appeared yet. In order for Holy to appear, her soul had to return to the Planet.

That's an excellent point! Good observation! :rolleyes:

Are you absolutely sure Cloud said this, Clerith-son? You're talking about the ending, right?

This how I remember it:

Cloud: ......I think I'm beginning to understand.
Tifa: What?
Cloud: An answer from the Planet... the Promised Land... I think I can meet her...there.

Do I have it wrong? I'm sure this is how it is in the NA script, anyway...do you have a different translation of it, Clerith-son? :unsure:

Either way, even if all he says is that he's beginning to understand, it still suggests that he's been trying to reach a state of understanding, of come to a realization of some sort. What he says implies that beginning to understand and beginning to hear the Planet's answer is a positive, desirable thing and that Cloud would aim to find a fuller understanding in the future. ^_^

:cleris:

Yeah, I don't think I remember him saying "finally" in my version. Which script is that from? :unsure:

I didn't catch that... you're both right. Cloud doesn't say "finally" in the English version. Clerith-son is from Equador, though... perhaps he's working from the Spanish version? :unsure:

No, I played it in English. I don't remember where I got the scripts from, but I remember there where like 3 parts for it, one for each disc. The speech I got is the one I posted:

......I think I'm beginning to understand.

(Tifa looks up at him.)

What?

(She holds on tighter and leans her head against his chest.)

Finally...
An answer from the Planet...
the Promised Land...
I think I can meet her... there.

(Tifa looks up at him, then closes her eyes and leans her head back down.)

Yeah, let's go meet her.

Yes, that's another good point. He says that he's beggining to understand, like if he had been given previous answers, but that he didn't understood until Aerith's hand reached to him, after he defeated Sephiroth. He seemed to be pretty happy when he saw her hand reaching him, maybe there's when he understood the answers.

It is a good point that Hyper brought up. We're wondering which script you got the quote from, though. "Finally" isn't shown in the script here: Final Fantasy VII Script at RP Gamer Everything else is the same as what you quoted.

I don't remember "finally" being in the game, either, but I'd be glad to check if anyone wants. I've got a save at the bottom of the Northern Crater before you go in to fight Bizarro Sephiroth, so it'd be easy to check it out.

Please, check it. I have a saved game, but in the middle of disc two, I was playing it to win the game again and check it out, but if you have a closer saved game, please check it. I have a friend that told me that he also remembered Cloud saying "Finally".

I just went back and checked... I'm sorry, but he doesn't say "finally".

Well then, my bad, sorry. I'll erase the "Finally" from the FFVII script I got now.

Sorry if this was already posted, I didn't read all the post;

When Cloud became Aeris's bpdyguard, I think that it was forshadowing us for the upcoming event of her death. But thats just what I think. When they showed you so many scenes of the Forbidden Forest (I think that was the place) near her death (in short, when she went to go look for the Temple of the Ancients. Remember now where I'm talking about?) Aeris was always talking about after things were better and after her time. She knew that she was going to die I think and she wanted to live her life like normal.

When Cloud was possesed and he tried to kill her, she didn't stop him. I also really don't think she knew who was going to kill her, but she was always talking about 'next time'. She knew that something fatal was going to happen to her.


A scene in Cosmo Canyon:

Aerith: I learned a lot. The elders taught me many things. About the Cetra...
And the Promised Land... I'm...... alone... I'm all alone now...

Cloud: But I'm...... we're here for you, right?

Aerith: I know. I know, but... I am the only...... Cetra.

Cloud: Does that mean we can't help?

When she went on the date with Cloud (I agree with it completely) Inturuped by Fireworks started playing and Cloud was thinking as was Aeris. She didn't know how to tell him that she knew. I think anyways. Something was telling me that she wanted to tell Cloud that she knew something, but she never had the courage to say.

you know? if in ff7 you are very nice to aeris an very very very horrible to tifa, then, in the end of cd two, when cloud and Tifa are alone, cloud will be very cold to tifa.

first of all, when tifa talks about the events in the lifestream, about her talking with him,cloud will say:

so, it was you...
i think cloud really thought he was talking to aeris, dont you think?

and then, tifa ask if he think stars can see the fight they are keeping for the planets sake and cloud will say:

one day, i will find the answer, as long as i try it.

Tifa will answer: yes, you are right ( buy i think she didnt knew what he was talking about)

but, in the end, cloud says to tifa after see aeris hand emerging form the lifestream:

i think i begin to understand..an anser form the planet...the promised land , i think i can meet her there.
And tifa finally understand what he was talking about, thats why her face is so sad..


so, we know that cloud anser was : were i can meet with aeris? i think this is why he wanted to save the life of the planeta too, to be able to hace an answer...



i have a question:

in the english version, its true tha cloud says:

finally, an answer from the planet

in spanich version, cloud didnt says finally, this change a lot because if is true, then, we know that cloud has tried to have the answer of this question!! :D



(tomorrow i have an english examn, that is why im practicing, the problem it is the oral examn!!! i am afraid!!! :( )

"but im...were here for you right?"

"hey, im your bodyguard, right?"

cloud made that promise, not because he was forced to do it, but because he was asked to. you see? he was ASKED!!!! aerith did not force him in anyway, and even though he said, "it'll cost ya" he didnt refuse a date, did he? am i right, or am i right? :lol:

From the way Aeris talked, I see it more along the lines that she was intrested in him and was pushing the relationship along. Cloud seemed rather passsive about the whole thing. Aeris was the one who wanted to keep Cloud around.

Which is actually a nice change of pace. It's not often you see the girl doing all the flirting.

Yep AR, you're right! :fangirl:

Tifa had to force Cloud into making the promise - "C'mon, promise me!!!"
as opposed to Aeris's "Would you be my bodyguard?"

Cloud's reaction was different as well, to Tifa he said, "What?!"
To Aeris he said, "Sure, but it'll cost you."

Ahahaa!! CloudXAeris all the way!!! :cleris:

Is it just me,or does it seem I was him beofor something,I seem to
remember being him in a past life,anyway even though it seems like
he will protect her,she ends up,well you know.And thats why in the end,it was proven to be in the heart,because he promised to protect her,but failed,and he felt gulty for it.Thats what proves he did it from the heart.

Are you talking about fanfiction? :unsure:

No!!!!

One word answers are spam, FF7:MemoriesofAerith. Spam belongs in the spam forum - no where else. ~ Anastar

KY asked you a good question. Cloud is never shown in a "past life" in the game. In Kalm, he talks about what happened to him in Nibelheim, but he's never shown in a "past life".

No, he didn't refuse the date as payment. He sorta wagged his finger at her playfully as he agreed to it, too, which I thought was cute! :lol: On the other hand, he demanded money from an "old friend" to continue helping Avalanche.

When you think about it, Cloud had only known Aerith for a few minutes when she asked him to help her out of the Church and see her home safely. He was thinking of himself as a mercenary at the time. No wonder he said, "It'll cost ya". A date with Aerith was enough payment for him, though... so he definitely liked the idea. ;)

I just wonder how he knew she was such a sweet girl.