*Let me apologize in advance for my Stupidity in Grammar,and Ideas *

I was re-reading CoT the other day ,I was bored,really bored and I wanted to get a better understanding of why Cloti's go crazy over this Book(??)
So I read it and I came to the line

"This kid came to my place........."

"Denzel had collapsed in front of the church where Aerith used to be. That's why I thought Aerith lead him to "my place"".

I thought about those lines and realized how Denzel looked.

Cloud has Blue Eyes and blonde hair.
Aerith Green eyes and Brown hair.
Denzel has Blue eyes and brown hair.


If SQ-EN really wanted us to think of Denzel as Tifa AND Clouds kid why give Denzel Brown hair like Aerith and not Black hair like Tifa??

Maybe its just me but I take the Hair color,and eye color as a hint.Nomura did say it would take someone a couple of times to notice that kind of stuff.
My point being ,Maybe SQ-EN wants us to think of Denzel as Cloud and Aeriths kid(in some weird way.)???
I just like thinking of Denzel as their kid,it seems sweet.
------
Now on to the No lying in the promised land thing.
I remember in MoTP it says a person can't lie in the promised land,I think its in the scene with jessy.But Im not sure >.<

Any who, I notice when a Cleris tries to use the "Cloud said he wanted Aeriths forgiveness more then anything" line Cloti's say he didn't mean it like that ,or some other whacked out reply.
my point is ,a Person CAN NOT LIE IN THE PROMISED LAND.

So when Cloud said "I think I want to be forgiven,Mmm...More then anything"
He actually did mean he wants her forgiveness more than anything else in the world.Right????

**
from the moment I saw AC I always took that line as something really romantic.
Heck,My mum even said "Is he trying to get to heaven ,to be with his love?" Im not fibbing' either ,then when I showed my dad AC he said,"Is that his Girlfriend and where the hell is she?"

To every newbie out there (that I have met) ,they have always thought of that scene as very touching,sweet,romantic and heartbreaking.Seriously my mum said why can't he go be with her,i was like I have no friggin idea.(i was a newbie too)

Maybe that scene has a lot more behind it then the "forgiveness" thing???
Because to newbs it comes off like two lovers being reunited in heaven like Titanic.

I am completely aware of the fact im crazy and make no sense at ALL but there is no need to say it to me here >.< lol
I just wanted to let my Cleris mind go on,on,and on with my Cleris ideas. :cleris: :fangirl:

Crazy Girl ,Out. PEACE!

I'm confused. :huh: You're a cool gal but could you please stop making threads with every new question that comes to your head. If you need to ask something, you can just PM me, instead of making a new thread and I will be happy to answer it. I don't care how many times you do it. :wink:

Anywayz with that being said I'm going to try to piece together what you are asking.

If you have read the Case of Denzel, you would know that he is an orphan. He used to live in Sector 7 until ShinRa destroyed it. Secondly, he is not Cloud & Tifa's kid or Cloud & Aerith's kid. The looks are just a coincidence and probably that Nomura seems to like blue eyed characters.

Aerith brought him to Cloud & Tifa because they were looking after orphans and running a delivery service together and she knew he would have a good home with Marlene, Barret, Cloud & Tifa and be safe. Cloud & Aerith's relationship is completely spiritual and that is one thing I love about them. They aren't tied down by society's rules, and don't need a family to feel complete. After all, its out of the question.

Cloud was broken by Aerith's death. He loved her and took upon himself as her bodyguard to protect her. He's suffered more hardship than most people have dreamed of. His mother was murdered, his hometown destroyed, his best friend was killed in front of him while he couldn't do anything, his childhood crush was almost killed by Sephiroth, but too top that off his girlfriend was murdered by Sephiroth, someone he thought was a hero. That would break anyone. In AC, I'm sure part of him wanted to die and let the pain end and be with her. If anyone close to you has died when you couldn't help them you would want to see them again to beg forgiveness for failing to do something, anything.

Cloud's heart broke when Aerith died. He loved her so much he felt that he was worthless. He certainly wants forgiveness, but he also doesn't want Aerith to hate him because he couldn't protect her. (Of course she doesn't but we all know that). He probably also wanted to know if she could forgive him--that is still love him enough to forgive him. That's complete devotion. Loving with your whole being. Its beautiful, heartbreaking and moving. This is the beauty and tragedy of the Cloud/Aerith relationship.

Yea sorry *slaps forehead*

BUt I don't mean hes biologically their kid i mean in a spiritual way.
like he's to represent something ?

Denzel regards Tifa as his mother so he has no connection to Aerith. He represents the innocence of children.

You should read Case of Denzel here:

http://one.xthost.info/ffwebnovel/

It will clarify alot about him.

I guess what AG means, is Nomura try make Danzel as a symbol of Cloud and Aerith's child?... and ofcoz not the biological but just something like a hidden meaning of Cloud x Aerith's kid..

From CoT

IMO, I think why Could would say so, maybe he miss Aerith so much... n since Aerith being so kind n helpful to others especially with kids, (shown from FF VII game n FF VII CC if u did notice Aerith's personality ) thus he believe that Danzel was leaded to him for his help to Danzel.

but AG, could u show me in where n when did Nomura said that or the original line? TQ :)


I'm not sure whether did Danzel regards Tifa as his mother or not.. coz never state in Case of Danzel ... maybe yes.. from AC Barret's line : "Go protect ur mom"

But Tifa seem to tell others Marlene was her daugther... so maybe for Danzel as her son too...

(From CoT)

Yes thats all I meant ^^
I know Denzel is Tifas adopted Kid,im talking about Denzel Representing Something.


And No I can't find that darn Interview I was looking for it for a while ,I know there is an interview that says that though.I read it a gazillion times here.

I'll keep looking for it >.<

Okay take ur time n looking forward to ur good news ^^

Can a mod close this thread since it doesn't look like Aerith can find the interview? :huggle:

Aerith Gainsborough

I would agree that's what he wanted more than anything else in the world for the reasons that Angelwing Aeris gave. And yes, MoTP says that you cannot lie in the Promised Land. However, do we know for sure that where Cloud said that to Aerith is actually the Promised Land? Aerith manifests in other places during AC, so why is the flower field the Promised Land?

Sorry... which statement in which interview are you looking for? :unsure:

Great Gospel

I think many Cleris people feel the same way, and yes, I agree there could be a hidden meaning to Denzel. I've always seen him as representing Cloud and Aerith's continuing bond.

But why Denzel, when there are so many other orphaned children? :unsure:

Angelwing Aeris

Why would you want this thread closed, AA? :unsure: What Denzel may or may not represent in the Compilation in a rather interesting topic, in my opinion. I think many Cleris people tend to think of Denzel as representing a "connection" of some sort between Cloud and Aerith, since Cloud believed that Aerith brought Denzel to him.

I don't think Aerith G is alone is thinking of Denzel as Cloud and Aerith's kid, in a sense. No, he can't be their biological kid, and yes, Denzel's an orphan. However, Cloud felt that Aerith had brought Denzel to him, which means that Cloud thought that Denzel represented something to Aerith.

That's only your interpretation, AA. SE never stated that as an explanation. Other people see it differently, which is why this is an interesting topic for discussion.

If Denzel has no connection to Aerith, then why does Cloud think that Aerith brought Denzel to him? And where was it stated that Denzel represents the innocence of children?

All very true, but that's only an explanation of why the scene is romantic... which is what Aerith G was originally pointing out, correct?

I found it romantic that Cloud thought Aerith had brought Denzel to him, whether she did or didn't. I don't think it was made clear if she had or hadn't guided Denzel to the church (I haven't read the novellas in a long time), but the point was Cloud had automatically assumed that she had. :) I think it shows a great deal of devotion from Cloud and says a lot about what's been on his mind this whole time.

I don't think Denzel was meant to represent anything romantically far-fetched between Cloud and Aerith, tho, like a son or anything.

:sweat: Well, um, that's just my opinion.

I guess this maybe the quote that you were looking for, AG?
From FFVII:AC Prologue Book, 3Ns interview:
Nomura : "AC is piece of work made by Japanese people. In Hollywood movies, I think there is a tendency where the meaning of all the scenes have to be expressed clearly but, this isn't something like that. With our work, the viewer is free to decide how they interpret or enjoy it. The staff has their own answers to all the scenes in the movie such as the angel statue that makes an appearance many times. But, even if someone who have watched it interprets it differently then that is just another answer. I guess "comparing answers" with friends is one of the ways you can enjoy the movie. I think AC is a movie that makes those who have watched it, want to talk about it with others."
Source: http://one.xthost.info/ffwebnovel/, in Prologue Book & Interview section..

If it isn't, then sorry.. :blush:


It's interesting to take something symbolically, like we can say the same with Marlene, you know.. Especially with the fact that Cloud think Aerith brought Denzel to him.. Yes, I do feel that Denzel is some kind of erm hint of Cloud and Aerith's continuing bond..

Erm.. I didn't know that CloTis say it was a lie.. Seriously? How?
For me it's not about lie or not, but the fact that he wants Aerith's forgiveness more than anything.. It means just about ANYTHING, you know.. And yes, it sounds romantic too..

Oh, keep the discussion going, guys.. :)

I think AG meant that some Clotis claim that Cloud didn't mean it literally more than ANYTHING. Which I don't understand how else we're supposed to interpret it when that is exactly what he said. >_> Then AG makes the point that that must've been what Cloud meant, because you can't lie in the Promised Land, but only assuming you interpret the flower fields as the Promised Land...

There are a lot of interpretations of what the Promise Land actually is as far as that scene goes. So, whether or not the Promise Land is actually a flower field, I won't know. But, there are things that could be hinting at it, depending on how you look it, but more on that later.

First of all, you have to analyze the beginning of the scene a bit. If you are a first time watcher, you're probably going to think that Aerith and the flower field was strictly in his mind, which was also the impression I got the first time around. But who am I to say that Cloud couldn't have a glimpse of what the Promise Land was actually like? It's a plausible explanation that the scene was in the Forgotten City and the POOF!, Aerith! :aeris: But I doubt whether or not this is all happening in Cloud's mind, since it seems so cute and fluffy, but the dark part of it makes it seem plausible.

Moving on, the Promise Land is often interprerated as some sort of Heaven, correct? From my views on Heaven, it's a sign of complete peace, and why wouldn't flowers ever symbolize that as well? Not to mention, Aerith is there, too. Apparently, Cloud's Promise Land has Aerith surrounded with flowers. CUTE!!! Plus, Aerith is an ancient, it's reasonable to think that flowers would be in the Heaven-like place as far as she's concerned. Not to mention, it seems fair that is she can talk to the Planet, she can talk to Cloud. Okay, well, I'm not actually what powers she has as a Cetra.

So, why couldn't she spiritually send a child to Cloud? If Cloud is able to see and communicate with her, then it should be able to work the other way around. Hence, my interpretation of Denzel being there with Cloud.

There seems to be a bit of confusion here. First of all, it's for certain that a person cannot lie in the Lifestream. This is made clear in MotP when Aerith cannot even tell a little white lie to comfort Jessie, and also when she encounters Dyne. I'm not certain whether or not that would go for the Promised Land too, though it seems a logical conclusion. But in any case, if Cloti want to say that Cloud is lying in that scene, well, then let them be idiots about it since first off, there's no reason to assume that Cloud is lying. Secondly, in places such as the Reunion Files its stated that Cloud wants forgiveness from Aerith more than anything, reinforcing that statement. Unless they have something besides their lame assumptions, they're full of it. There's no reason whatsoever to believe that Cloud was lying in that scene.

Now, on the issue of Denzel. . . I think it's surprising that some people would say that there is no connection between Denzel and Aerith when in CoT it's made quite clear that Cloud believes Aerith brought Denzel to him. Whether or not this is true, SE hasn't confirmed. But what matters is that Cloud believes it to be true, and considering the connection Aerith has to young children anyway, it's not that farfetched that she really did guide Denzel to Cloud. Even if Denzel considers Tifa a mother, who's to say he can't think of Aerith the same way? He did have a mother before Cloud found him, but he accepted Tifa as a mother figure in his life. He could just as easily accept Aerith as one too- there's nothing to say a person can't have more than one maternal figure in their life.

You know that I have to agree with everything you just said, because it's logical to think that way, since this is Final Fantasy VII, and I just plain love Cloud and Aerith.

I'm glad that Cloud does seem to think that Aerith brought Denzel to him, whether or not that's fact or fiction, it's Cloud's opinion, and I'm bothered by CloTis dismissing that. He did say that and I'm sickened when they just pretend that he didn't. *pout* I'm not sure if I'm making a lot of sense here.

Wow lol I thought a mod closed my thread cause it was stupid >.< Sweet!
@Anastar
You're right a person can't really be sure if it is the promised land.
It's just how I always took that place,it looks like heaven. o.0

yep,yep,yep,yep . xD

@sessystalker
YEshh! that's what I try to tell them.But they just say he still didn't mean it like that :[
That's what I am trying to find out.Why did Cloud -off the bat- think Aerith brought Denzel to him? I do take it romantic because It shows how much Cloud still wants to be close to Aerith.In any way possible .

@Sha
*BIG HUGS* thank you for finding that interview!I have searched far and wide for that lol I guess Clotis think Cloud didn't mean it literally and just figuratively (??)

@Alantie
True so true!

@PinkWhiteLove
You're my hero/heroine lol you explained it perfectly xD
you're making sense :3 and that's exactly how I feel too >.<

Sorry If I didn't make much sense ,there was alot to reply to :[

Don't worry about it AerithG, you're making a lot of sense.

In general, I kinda of like the idea of Aerith bringing Denzel to Cloud and the rest of the gang, though, not directly of course. Anyway, it would kind of make sense to me that way, since he was attached to little Marlene, almost as if he had a crush on her, even if a lot of people see them as having a bro/sis relationship. Denzel and Marlene are a mini version of Cloud and Aerith to me. Plus, Marlene looks so much like Aerith. So, I hope that Aerith maybe did bring Denzel to Cloud (and Marlene.)

YAY! I made sense lol xD
I agree it would be super kawaii to think of it that way :]
I don't really think SQ-EN added Denzel to the story just so Tifa could have a kid :/ ,he has to have some meaning behind him.Meaningful things is what SQ-EN is all about.
:lol:

Yeah, but she's kind of a mother figure for him, but I think given that he's pretty young, you can't really blame him. I'm pretty sure when he's older, he might stop seeing her that way, or that's what I think.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks Denzel looks like Cloud and Aerith's kid.