*Noted:all babbling below involves overly MPOVs....sorry in advance if I'm rabid in some points.. :ow:

Nibelhem event bores me.

I don't care if that's the scene impresses Nomura/Kitase/Nojima most or that's one of the major episode in FF7, it just bores me to death.
FF7 Game already shows its importance to the whole scenario, but it apparently takes a great part of the storyline in BC and CC, and even IS the mainly story background of LO.....what the heck. SE really tires me by repeating insane!Sephy and C/Z/T's event. I remember Nomura says the best part he likes is Tifa entering Cloud's spiritual world and they try hard to regain the true!Cloud back, so then make this "CXT's journey" in the series, even it could milk Clotis' fandom world I don't care as long as it's NEW for gamers to play. After BC, CC, LO, fans almost come to realize this event TOO well, the very tiny, little related stuff about Nibelhem's burning down are illustrated by three series, I'll bet this part would be the most detailed episode while we recall the original FF7 Game.
Don't get me wrong, I still like the way Zack stands as a crucial character in CC's Nibel event, and I like how SE releases more stories/secrets about the Turks in BC, but should all those facts be shown by one overused episode?? If there's "EC" coming up and it involves Nibehem event again, I think SE can finish it within minutes cuz there're soooooo much amazing graphics/amvs done already in previous series(like they used part of AC's amvs and PS3-Demo amv in CC) And this is not even the major reason I dislike Nibel event.



I hate how SE modified what I know so far about CXT's promise.

I don't know if there's any other members have the same feeling like me. In original Game, we simply know Cloud's "partly being forced by Tifa" to make that promise and he feels a little shameful(?) of himself for not being "famous"(during the conversation when he and Tifa first meet in the bar). And even when he confesses later that he's not a SOLDIER, he is terribly sorry that he disappointed "all friends"(Ok, you can say esp for Tifa, cuz Cloud says "Tifa-shan" while he gave the Black Material to Sephy). And that's all I know about Cloud's feeling for this "promise": it's the mayor reason Cloud wants to be a SOLDIER(!!!...another slap from FF7 Anni-Ultimania; I always thought Cloud's wish to be a SOLDIER because of many reasons, like he wants to prove he's strong or to make friends...etc.), and he feels guilty for not completing the promise(through one line) and then ensures that he'll keep that promise in HW scene....THAT'S ALL.

However, BC and CC(let's ignore LO's promise scene, it's FAKE anyw) makes me feel that Cloud keeps that promise forever in mind after he left Nibel and joined Shira troop; this promise suddenly became the "main and seemingly the only" reason that pushes Cloud to be a SOLDIER. My Cloti bro said that Cloud's attitude to Tifa clearly reveals his feelings to Tifa: most guys act embarrassed in front of girls they love; he cares 'bout Tifa too much to let her feel disappointed any a bit. :ermm: In BC, he seems haunted by this promise and babbles it a lot everytime he feels incapable of completing the mission.....All those stuffs are far beyond my understanding of FF7G before they released. I know some members would cool down this thread by saying "no matter what kinda crush/promise Cloud's with Tifa, it's all in the past", but I still feel confused when Clotis argue that Cloud's crush on Tifa will come back once he regains the real self and all his past feelings to her and the importance of that promise..blahblahblah. And esp when they use CC/BC/LO(*kick) as proof to show how Tifa's important to Cloud.......

.....I don't blame Clotis, I blame SE for over-emphasizing this Nibel event too much in different series. Maybe SE didn't intend to fluff up Clotis' side, but you know, for fans all over the world, even one second for this intended pairing to show together in amvs could cheer fandom minds and make them party up all night long. Call me a R!Clerith but I just don't like some Clotis' fanarts/essays/theories that illutrates Cloud's wholeheartedly emphasis on CXT's promise....Arrrggg.

My point is, maybe SE's pupose is simply to detail this important episode and to explain some missing plots in FF7G, that's still TOO MUCH!!(*glare) Not only all graphics and story about Nibelhem burning down bores me to some degree but also Clotis' so-called "proof" in Nibel event tires me....what's other evenly important episodes in FF7's story anyway? I was about to poin out events of Aerith's sacrifice, Meteor, the meaning of AVALANCHE vs Shinra and a dying Planet....but after SE's releasing BC, CC, I can hardly say anymore.

(*murmur to myself) Ok we have AC.....a perfect work to give a break from Nibelhem event....(*try to calm down :blush: )

I need to frame that line on my wall. <3

Hmm, as for the promise... I always thought the promise scene was the cornerstone for Cloti, honestly, even more than the infamous Highwind Event. Just like Aerith's death was for Cleris. It "made" the pairing for me. Say the word "Cloti" and the scene of Cloud and Tifa at the water tower is what first pops into my mind. So I guess I thought the promise between them was a rather big deal since the beginning. Although I would never have guessed that BC!Cloud would recall that promise as a source of strength, it doesn't shake my "Cloti view" too hard.

Though I find it annoying that Cloud's ONLY reason for joining SOLDIER is Tifa. Because, yanno, a character should be so much more than that. Just like I believe Cloud's angst in AC was more than just about Aerith (albeit predominantly about her), so I'm gonna believe he survived SOLDIER for more reasons than Tifa.

Oh, so that's where your question in the Ultimania thread came from? ^^

I've already said stuff about personality in that thread, but basically, I really doubt Cloud will "suddenly" love Tifa after he regained his so-called "true self". He knows he's not a puppet-- that's all. Nothing else changed, except that he now also knew that he and Tifa were never very close.

Basically, if Cloud fell out of love with Tifa by FFVII, I doubted he'd magically regain those feelings after the Lifestream event. (Just like if Aerith fell out of love with Zack over the five years of his disappearance, I doubt she'd magically fall back in love with him in the Lifestream.) Falling in love is a process, not a switch to turn on and off.

Words, Lynn, have I ever told you I love your posts a lot? :)

Thanks so so much too help clarify my mess-up doubt about CXT in boring Nibelhem event....yeah, that's why I posted a Q in Ultimania trans' board, asking if anyone ever thought of a possibility for Cloud's being "swtiched" into his personality in BC. I guess I got mixed up first and some Clotis' promise fanarts got my nerves then, so I just vent the annoyance to SE.....wow, even now I give a second thought, I'll laugh at my funny idea actually. :blush:
Probably I have to discuss this Nibel cliche seperately from Clotis' thoery, after all, it's not SE intentionally grew more Clotis by releasing BC & CC, it's fans' natural instinct to consider everything relates to CXT promise as "proof" to their fav paring. Like what you said, Clotis' canoning "proofs" from the promise made in WaterTower is similar to Cleriths' unofficially consider Aerith's death as CXA fanbase. The difference is, this C/T's promise is inevitablely involved Nibel event and SE happens to love that episode a loooot.


I still won't buy Clotis' idea that Cloud's young crush on Tifa will revive after he regained his true self.....well, a wonderful choice for 100 CXT theme challenge and I can persuade myself in fanarts but proofs?....I could wish them good luck but they really need to try harder.

As for SE's abuse of Nibelhem event......(*sigh), I don't think it's all Clerith in me that think it boring enough; it's really difficult not to feel bored about same storybackground, same characters repeating same lines that I memorized already even I didn't intend to. :puke:


Anyway, thanks again for replying my babbling, Lynn! :gift:

It is indeed an over milked event but alas a very important one. I can see how you can get bored of it. Last Order, Crisis Core, etc. But it's the event where Sephiroth lost his marbles, Zack and Cloud were captured by Hojo, and Tifa developed her hate for all things Shin-Ra.

And it's true, CloTis love the Nibelheim event although...I see nothing CloTi about it! If we stick by the original VII telling and NOT the messed up LO one, Cloud and Tifa basically never interact. That "touching scene" where he moves her body? Never happened. Cloud hid himself from Tifa because he was ashamed of himself.

I never saw that as his only reason, just as a twisted fan girl illusion. Before Tifa even thinks of the promise Cloud says he plans to join SOLDIER. Sure she did have influence (setting a goal he failed to reach) but he had planned to do it on his own from the start.

Exactly! Cloud had a crush on Tifa but, at least in his mind, he failed her and eventually let it go. His feelings faded from romantic to friendship. So a guy runs into a childhood crush and his feelings some how come rushing back? Nonsense! He'd see her as nothing more than an old friend. "More Than Friends, Less Than Lovers" sounds like a brother-sister bond to me. If I had a male friend who was "more than a friend" but "less than a lover" I'd think of him as a brother not a romantic opportunity.

I can understand a bit why SE would emphasize the Nibelheim incident. IMO, it's not really about Cloti or anything like that...but it was the start of a lot of events and conflicts. It was the important scene that eventually led Cloud to merge his memories with Zack's, where Sephiroth turned EBIL, where Cloud and Sephiroth's rivalry stemmed from, etc. However, I do share the same opinion with you about being tired of it. I think most of us get the picture already. We don't exactly need 20 versions of the incident. ^^;

Yup, and Clotis will most definitely tie the incident to a supposed puppies&kittens-rainbow-over-the-clouds Cloti lurve that had been blooming...but it shouldn't bother us. In the end, what they're saying is just another interpretation.

In the original game, Cloud stated that he hid himself because he was so ashamed he didn't want to see anyone...and he did tell everyone he was going to join SOLDIER. It wasn't just all about Tifa. @.@

If it was just all about impressing Tifa, then what was the point of telling everyone else about his plans? Doesn't that say that he'd wanted others to be impressed with him as well? Besides, in CC, doesn't he say something to Zack about wanting to make it into SOLDIER for him? There's more to this than just Tifa. I don't believe SE ever said she was the symbol of Cloud's desire to join SOLDIER or anything like that. :mellow:

Personally, I don't really feel Cloud's feelings had anything to do with a romantic crush. More than anything his childhood was about fitting in and acceptance (not about pinning after an unrequited love), and in order to achieve that, he felt he had to show everyone he was strong. If he was strong like Sephiroth, even Tifa(most popular child in town) would notice and admire him. Seriously, if he really had a crush on Tifa...I don't see why she had to force him into making the promise in the first place. If it WAS about a crush, I think he would have gladly jumped to it. Also...if Cloud had been portrayed, for example, thinking about how pretty Tifa was then, yes, it would definitely hint towards a crush, but it's nothing like that at all. Plus, adult Cloud acts too clueless around Tifa for me to believe he'd ever had romantic feelings for her. Each to one's own opinion. Just like the concepts of Cloti and Cleris, everyone will believe in whatever makes the most sense to him/her.