Okay, I was at my friends sleepover on her birthday, I was having a great time.
Then I brought up FFVII. I said that my all time favourite character from that game was Aeris Gainsborough, saying that she was so innocent and pure. I also said that she could kick Sephiroth's ass. Do you what three Tifa fans said? I'll tell you and I quote...

"Aeris a weak slut."
"Yeah, she dresses like a skank!"
"Cloud should be with Tifa because she could beat Aeris in a fight."

I almost wailed on them! I had to contain myself to not go over to them and knock them out. And on another occasion with the same people at a picnic...

"Cloud and Tifa are canon because he said that he wasn't alone at the end of the movie."
"Aeris is with Zack, because at the end of the movie Zack and Aeris leave together."

What in the hell kind of proof is that?! Well, that's the end of my story.

"Yeah, she dresses like a skank!"
After someone said this I would be on the floor laughing saying something like, "And Tifa's short skirt, and titty contouring suspenders are any better."

I'd actually love to listen and see exactly how these rabid Cloti's debate in real life.

Old, foolish "proofz". Let's go point for point.

She is not physically powerful but magically her strength is massive.

As to slut, a girl in a full dress and jacket is sluttier than a girl in a mini skirt and sports bra? Wooooow....

Tifa can beat up Aerith? What's the point? Relevance?

So how come he didn't realize it sooner? He always had Tifa. It wasn't until Aerith and the other interevend that he realized he wasn't alone. She never healed his isolation.

Read Maiden Who Travels The Planet, dip. <_<

I was so angry, because obviously, this is the truth.
These girls...HAVE ONLY SEEN THE MOVIE...NONE OF THEM HAVE PLAYED THE ACTUAL GAME...I put that in CAPS LOCK because it's so blatant!
They don't even know Aeris' personality, past or anything!

Welcome to the forum, Risa! :huggle:

Luckily for me, I've never ran into an IRL debate about FFVII or the Dreaded Love Triangle (everyone feels strongly about something to do with that game so I try to stay faaar away from that subject IRL). I'm a much poorer debater without the distance and thinking/consideration time you get on the internet, and I get mad so much quicker. :lol:

But you shouldn't worry! Nothing your CloTi friends said was a halfway decent argument. For example...

Weak?
Sure she is, if you never use her. Keep her with your party (and move her to the front row if you want her to deal more damage) and she has the potential to become a vital party member very quickly. Being able to pummel the baddies is good, but when you've got Great Gospel on your side, you're pretty much indestructable.

Slut?
When they throw this theory around, two words really help. Prove. It. Show me one scene when Aeris is shown sleeping with multiple characters. Hell, even one scene when she makes a pass at multiple characters! No? Doesn't exist? Okay, when does she flirt with any guy who isn't Cloud? Hmm... So if playfully flirting exclusively with the guy you like (and who never indicates that he doesn't like it) makes a you a slut then I think it's time for every woman who isn't a nun to join Whores Anonymous. :whistle:

Bad dress-sense?
Well, we all like different stuff. I happen to like Aeris' look and you shouldn't be made to feel bad if you do too. It's very pretty, tasteful, and practical. And it makes her stand out from the crowd in Midgar, and shows that she's not like the city's other jaded and unhappy souls. So your friends don't care for that - that's okay. But can they really call it "skanky" when Tifa's wearing a micro-miniskirt (totally impractical for combat) and a sports bra?

Better fighting skills make Cloud horny?
Then Cloud should be with Sephiroth. Or, out of your team, probably Cid. Or he should be with himself. And since when could Tifa beat Aeris in a fight anyway? Seriously, just because Tifa appears tougher and kickass and appeals more to your friends, it doesn't mean she appeals to Cloud. And in terms of personality, Tifa is not so tough. She's actually far more vulnerable and needy than she appears, and depends on Cloud to boost her. In comparison, Aeris is the tough and strong one.

CloTi is canon?
Until I see a kiss, I'm not buying it. Square isn't usually subtle about its romances (Squall/Rinoa, Garnet/Zidane, Tidus/Yuna) so if Cloud and Tifa were meant to be together, we'd know it. There wouldn't be an LTD. Sure, there's a lot of stuff that could and has been interpreted as hints or suggestions of C/T, but there's just as much in favour of C/A. We'll probably never get a definite answer, but it still remains that Aeris has been gone for two years, Cloud has been living closely with Tifa for two years and still nothing has happened.

I'm not alone = I luff j00 TEEFA?
Now this is just silly. He could have been talking about anyone. His surrogate family (which includes Tifa), all his friends, or his lost companions (Aeris and Zack) or all of them mushed together. The movie was about Cloud's personal issues, his private struggles with guilt and grief and his journey towards letting go of that and finding a new lease for life (and living it however he chooses to, including trying to find Aeris again). It is not a film about Cloud and Tifa falling in love. And if he is in love with Tifa at the end of the movie, what's up with the end credits? Why is it just Cloud and Aeris? Why's he driving to her flower-field?

Zack/Aeris in the Lifestream?
Um, no. Since when did leaving a place together mean you're going to make babies with them? They both came for Cloud's sake, and both left to go back to the Lifestream. "Maiden Over the Planet" confirms that Aeris loved Cloud more than Zack. And again, if she's with Zack, why is she shown waiting for Cloud in the credits? Why hasn't she returned to the Lifesteam with Zack? And why, in her leaving-scene (which shows the power of Zeris love, apparently) is she so totally focused on Cloud?

Anyway, those are pretty run-of-the mill C/T arguments and my responses have all been said before too, so don't worry. Your friends aren't particularly good CloTi debaters. :lol:

Hopefully, you'll find lots of great arguments for C/A and against A/Z and C/T here so you'll be more prepared to whoop them good come the next sleepover! ^_^

Edit:

That explains so much. :lmao:

It's annoying how they could judge a character so swiftly based on her brief appearence in the movie. But maybe this is where you could step in and explain to them in a friendly way why Aeris is such a great character and why she came to mean so much to Cloud during their time together? Maybe it'll give them a better idea of where your ideas and arguments come from.

:cleris:

Heh, yeah. I know huh?
Another thing that bothers me about them is that they never actually played the actual game. That pisses me off! It basically makes Tifa fans look bad. I like Tifa, sure, but she certainly isn't my favourite character. But I don't insult Tifa.

I like Tifa very much; it's just fans that try to push their opinions onto me that I can't stand. It's a shame because I know that quite a few people have been put off her characters by the behaviour of some of her rabid fans, but I know that there are plenty of Tifa fans (and CloTi fans) who feel embarassed when the rabids start making a scene and making their side look bad. -_-

:bff:

I mean, I like Tifa but she's done things to really aggrivate me...Like when she was a kid in Nibelheim. Ignoring Cloud altogether, then in the present day, saying to him that they were really close childhood friends. That was low, really low. Not to mention creating an ideal that Cloud couldn't reach...

I definitely wouldn't say she's a perfect character! :lol: If she was, she'd be a Mary-Sue. :puke:

She's made mistakes, is flawed, and has done things worth regretting, but she does try to make up for them and improve herself. She comes off as very human and I guess that's what draws me to her character.

But just because I like her despite her flaws, it doesn't mean that she and Cloud could ever really resolve all their issues. Cloud definitely appears to have forgiven her for any wrong she did against him in the past, and Tifa is sincerely sorry, but it doesn't clear the way for wedding bells. Things like Cloud's childhood and Tifa lying to him throughout Disc 1 are pretty serious blocks. They just have so much baggage and such a messed-up history (not to mention how incompatible they are) that I don't think they could ever have a healthy relationship.

Yeah. I agree, Tifa does try to make up for the things she did. But still...it annoys me that she created an ideal that Cloud couldn't measure up to. So basically, Tifa could never love Cloud for who he truly is. But Aeris loves Cloud because he's Cloud!

Yeah, she does try and she is a good person. I think she'd go much further as a person if she looked elsewhere for romance, though... -_-

It doesn't so much make me feel annoyed with Tifa that she still thinks of Cloud as an ideal hero and feels disappointed when he fails to measure up to that (I think that kind of dependency and self-deception is true to her character). I just feel sad for her, and sad for Cloud, and for this painful situation they've set up for themselves. But I would be very annoyed if they got together with Tifa still placing the burden of her high expectations on Cloud and not really coming to terms with who he is yet (which is pretty much their status in AC).

It's been said here before but if any girl loves the "Zack in Cloud", it's Tifa and not Aeris.

That is the best thing I've ever heard describing Tifa! I gotta quote that!

Wow, thank you! I'm glad you liked it! *blush*

Heh, yer welcome!!

^_^

Just to stop this topic from derailing, can any mods out there move this to the Venting section? I think it'd be more appropriate there. :sweat:

And yeah...really bad pro-CloTi evidence really grinds my gears. :lol:

Anyone else ran into any lame and tired arguments lately?

One person who I was talking to on another forum, said this...And I quote again...

"I dunno...Tifa's more filled out. And she has the look of someone who could please a man."

What in the hell is that?!

Something I don't get about your friends...if they've only seen the movie, how can they possibly know if Aerith is weak or not--she freakin' melted the silver-haired trio when Tifa couldn't even damage Loz!

Methinks someone has been reading really pathetic arguments for CloTi on the web.

More than likely by a bunch of rabid 13 year olds

:o Aeris melted them?! Are you freakin' serious!! What part of the movie is that?! I gotta see that!

It's in the "Healing Rain/Great Gospel" sequence, when Aeris' rain falls on Edge and cures everyone of Geostigma (and Cloud gets shot :sad:). After shooting Cloud, Loz and Yazoo (as well as a dying Kadaj) are melted by the rain.

She melts them very gently, but melting is melting! :lol:

In the world of fantasy, magic is always weaker then physical strength. Nevermind that magic can heal, attack from a distance before the fighter came close, cast annoying status effects, etc...

International Women's Fashion update! Practicality is now out of season!

Irrevelant. What's the use of awesome strength if the personality doesn't appeal to Cloud?

Man, he must be a knucklehead to FINALLY figured that out, like, near the end with Aerith's help...what?

*is busy building neon signs to refer people to MOTP*

:lol:

I think by now the story should come with its own poster and caption: Maiden Over the Planet - You Can't Ignore It Forever. :giggle:

Sigh... :/

It disappoints me how many people overlook Aerith's lonely past and how it does not affect her vibrant, optimistic personality. Despite her fate, however tragic it may be, she still remains strong and sure... She is a contrast to most of the world of FFVII, where the atmosphere is usually lifeless and gloomy. H3LLA strong if you ask me, heh. :P Aerith may not be able to kick ass here and there with her own fists, or from what I hear by many, have a "human" personality that all of us can relate to when we're stressed or concerned, or just plainly pissed off, like Tifa--but there's this incredibly untouched, never-broken woman inside Aerith that not many Final Fantasy characters have... or, from any series of media.

Honestly... I think it's mainly the comparison between Tifa and Aerith that makes these girls, who clearly seem to like Tifa more, not consider Aerith. Because Aerith's interactions with Cloud and her approach to situations differ from Tifa's, it's very likely that these girls think Aerith is Mary Sue-ish and too bubbly/airy.

Of course, many girls can relate to Tifa more than Aerith. Her reactions can reflect our reactions. I think that's one of the main reasons why Tifa is very loved and why some like to pair her up with Cloud. Cloud and Tifa are alike, and they are both very realistic characters that represent our indecisive emotions and all that.

Aerith, on the other hand, is more of an unpredictable, "innocent-looking", forgiving kind of girl that you wouldn't normally see walking around your town nowadays. A cheerful, welcoming, supportive, warm, considerate, soft/loud-spoken(depends) kind of woman. Not to mention quite awkward. :lol: She can represent wisdom or inner strength, like someone to look up to, with her natural way to stay calm and strong. However she is NOT perfect, if you get the wrong idea out of my lame description; she does have weaknesses but also the strength to hold on and keep her best foot forward. To me she's incredibly unique... what OUR world needs more of...

Er, considering this was a sleepover, they were probably just kidding for the most part. I think they did not mean 100% of what they said, but the idea in general is that "Aeris is a weak, odd-dressing character that cannot compete(or compare, doesn't matter) to Tifa (especially when it comes to physical ability)". ["Skank" and "slut", in today's generation obviously, are sometimes just used randomly and not appropriately instead of simple words like "girl", etc. Pretty saaaad...] They probably admire Tifa's strength to womp somebody's sad ass anytime, anywhere without depending on magic. Well, this is a typical thought by an Anti-Aerith person, as disappointing as it seems. -_- But whatever... my guess is that they hated Aerith so much that they ignored all parts about her when "playing" the game. You seriously can't waste your time debating with people that do not understand characters the way they really are. It's just their brief opinions anyway. ;3

Personally, Aerith is my most favorite female character and basically for all the points above given by Hyper-Balled, PKA, and so on. :blush: But that's just my opinion, and I definitely love Tifa as well; she's a very appreciated character of mine. I can't argue that Tifa is a totally awesome character too, of course! :tifa: ...However, it was never the argument "WHO IS THE BETTER HEROINE THAT CLOUD DESERVES AND DESERVES CLOUD BACK??".

It was always rather "Which woman did/does Cloud love?".

(Oh, and Risa Strife--don't let this pointless little argument get in the way of your friendship with these girls. :lol: You might disagree, but hey, it's not worth it! Haha. BUT, if you must "counterattack", don't try to point out bad things about Tifa. Just prove them wrong about Aerith. Just, if you *must*. Tehe.)

Aerith could reveal herself to Cloud not because "her spirit live's on inside him"
Donno but in my opinion that's what he ment.
Liike he's saying that he know's Aerith will alway's be with him or something ^//^
O-o
...and he has plenty more friend's than Tifa, sheesh. xD;

Your friends are dumbasses in the end cloud willbe with aerith. He will die and be reunited with her in the lifestream. :cleris:

Wow, lots of succesfull attempts in here! i was debating (ok more like arguing) with my sis about whether or not cloud met aeris at the end of the film. she happens to think that he was on a delivery and that it was only temproray. Hmm I think that's true because i hard something like that about the reunion files. anyway I didnt know for sure but I told her that cloud was going to meet aeris. she's a hardcore cloti shipper. nothing will convince her.

So there's my faild attempt!

You poor thing. You have to actually live with her!

I'm dreading the day I run into a Cloti in real life, honestly. I don't want to put up with it. Gah.

All of my friends don't really care, they know I'm obsessive, and they go along with me. One of my friends said she didn't care as both Aerith and Tifa suck, but she was being completely mean. xD She did admit that if Aerith was alive, though, Cloud would've been with her.

So, when I think about getting dragged to a convention by said friends at some point in my life, I'm scared. And not because I'd probably have to cosplay as Aerith. xD

I need to make a list of points I can fire back at Clotis when I meet them...

In my group of friends, there are only two Aerith supporters, me and my other friend, the rest, not a die-hard Tifa supporter but they just like Tifa (mainly because she kicks ass). They haven't played the game yet they already watched the movie, and they were like, "Cloud is for Tifa! Tifa kicks ass, Aerith is weak!" I was relieved to know that my other friend was an Aerith supporter, and everytime FFVII comes up in our conversation, we'll say, "PLAY THE GAME!"

Nowadays, the FFVII LTD rarely comes up, maybe because they're more focused on other FF games or they realized that they should play the game before concluding that Tifa is for Cloud. :whistle: :D

I made Kate, my best friend Cleris, altough she isnt Ff fan. My other best friend, Marron(it's her nickname, her real name is Marysia) likes to annoy me telling how Aeris is "ztupid" and Tifa is better, how Cloud loves her, etc. Luckily for her, i know she is only teasing me-she never played FF or wached AC. She only knows about FF what i tell her :lol: Funny thing is that one day she read Cloud x Sepiroth doujinshi, and when i later talked to her about :cleris: , she said with a serious and really shocked voice "So Cloud and Sephiroth are not together? :o" She made me laugh so hard :lol:

My whole circle of friends in high school said the same thing to me. I mean, I know I didn't play the game back then yet but as I mentioned in my intro post (found in the new members part) I watched my older brother played it and both my brother and I are big Aerith fans. I just think it's funny that the only reasons they have for not liking Aerith is "She's weak" and she "whines to much"? so that's why Aerith goes alone to the Forgotten City and prays for holy and sacrifices herself to save the planet? Because she's such a weak and whining character?

I don't openly bash Tifa I would appeciate it if they didn't do the same. And I know all Tifa fans aren't but it just seems like the ones I run into seem to feel the need to remind me how much better Tifa is compared to Aerith. They are both unique characters in theirr own sense, I just happen to like Aerith more :aeris:

Two of my best friends have played final fantasy X before, which they didnt tell me about, and when i found out, i asked them about final fantasy VII, they told me they havent played it but have heard of it. I asked them to watch the DVD and the reminiscences before the actual movie so they understood it a little better.

There was no arguments between us because they told me that they thought tifa looked very pretty but they thought Aerith was with Cloud and vice versa xD the rest of my friends that played the game dont really have a view on who loves who, but they just go along with what i say anyway xD

I live in a cleris world. :P Everyone who knows me is a clerith. That is the people who actually care about FFVII. I invited my 2 best friends to watch AC with me when it came out, and of course they were pro clerith. Then again I didnt give them any other choice. xD The Cloti/Tifa fans that I do know arent really diehards and they like Cloti because Tifa is pretty/nice. : ]

I wanna live with your in your world! D; Me and my friends now go to seperate schools and the only way i contact them is through phone, so i am like one of the last of a kind xD haha! lol I mean, they still like FFVII but prefer other games D;

aww it's ok! I'm sure your not alone! Just wear your clerithness proudly! And dont let Clotis dull your shine! >D

Awww! thanks! :3 :cleris:

ok aerith dresses like this.........



And Tifa dresses like this...........


umm yea sure Aerith is the slut and not tifa?!?!?!?
:cloud:
ha even Cloud would say Tifa dresses like the slut of the group..............

XD he would? xD

Hmmm ok your right he wouldn't call Tifa thathe cares about her to much.
Sorry for that lol :bff:

Lol, i dont think Cloud would ever be mean to anyone xD Although in his mind, he might be asking if Tifa uses padding or if they are real xD lol! But never out loud, haha!

yea i agree with you and i think if Cloud ever heard someone saying tifa was fake (boobs)
he would probably beat em up lol

that would be funny

Me too! My entire family is Clerith and so is my boyfriend! I honestly can care less about the LTD. There will always rabids on the Cloti side and sweet Clotis too. Some my friends are buddhists/shintos so they believe in spirtual relationships.

I would like Cloti if it wasn't so simple and predictable. I can tell you that I am a sucker for romance but I'm generally not a fan of childhood romance since the people in it are almost like siblings (although Cloti isn't childhood romance).

I also love tragic romances as well (like Romeo & Juliet, Shuyin/Lenne...etc), but Cloti is totally incapable of happening since it is completely one-sided. Also I can almost say with 100% correctness that our first love isn't our destined love. So Cloti/Zerith aren't happening. After all did Rinoa go for Seifer? No. Also Square doesn't seem to be a fan of childhood love. In FF history only two couples have been childhood friends. Cecil/Rosa from FF4 (they got married) and Vaan/Penelo from FFXII. Is significant me thinks.