Well, Anastar brought this up in the thread for Anti-CloTi sigs and I jumped on it and started rambling (as I tend to do) before it occured to me that with all that's been said, I really ought to make a new thread for it (it was wrong to keep a huge, pro-Aeris rant in that thread, after all), in case someone else has anything they want to say. Feel free to reply and give your own opinion! :D

So this is the conversation so far:

I think you hit the nail on the head there, Hyper. Most Aerith bashing is all about making Tifa look better (and don't get me wrong, I love her, but I can accept that she's not perfect), or turning anti-Tifa arguments around onto Aerith. For example: Aerith dresses like a slut, she's a bitch to Tifa, she gets in the way of Cloud and Tifa's love, she doesn't love the real Cloud whereas Tifa does, and not a turned around anti-Tifa remark, but my personal favourite - she got killed on purpose to make Cloud feel bad. :lol:

...But she did tell him. She told him on their date scene, which, according to Dismantled, is canon, but I suppose that CloTi got Tifa for the date. Even so, Tifa never said a word about him acting differently either, and she knew Zack too. As far as the white materia is concerned, I don't think Aerith knew herself what it was used for until she got to the Temple of the Ancients, maybe even until she got to the Forgotten City. If she found out as the Temple, she didn't really have much chance to tell him, as Hyper said. What was she supposed to do, explain during the dream sequence?

"Oh? Well why don't you really worry about it? And let me handle Sephiroth. Oh, I might as well explain what I'm going to do, it's not like he has the black materia and could use it at any second or anything. Cloud, I'm going to pray for Holy to stop Sephiroth. When I pray for Holy, my materia - you know, the one I told you about when we first met? - will glow pale green if my prayer reaches the planet. Just thought you might like to know how it works..."

I just brought that argument up so everyone could have a good laugh over it! I've only heard that argument from one Cloti. You've pretty much covered all the evidence I used against it, Hyper-Ballad, and I haven't heard any other Cloti try to claim the same thing. But I have heard quite a few other Cloti arguments that were just about as ridiculous as this one. All of them were brought up in LT debates, so don't worry... all of them got pounded into the ground pretty fast. :lol:

:lol: That is so funny. What kind of ridiculous evidence is that against Aeris? Sure she did. <_< I guess that Cloti is just covering the fact of what Tifa did. <_<
Aeris never did lied nor threw herself at Cloud. Actually, she wanted to know who Cloud was and learn many things about him. (At least that's the impression I got. :P ) And I think Aeris learn quite a lot. Aeris did talk about Zack to Cloud, so I don't know where that Cloti got their info.
Aeris also briefly talked about the white materia, but like she say, she didn't know its use for it. And Aeris is not even a full blooded Cetra. No one can't expect her to know everything. Her being a Cetra doesn't mean she has all the details on her culture. Jeez, Clotis, give it up. :lol:

That's exactly what I said to Tifa Strife when she said the same thing about Aerith "lying" to Cloud, like Tifa didnt? o_o;

I think Aerith hasn't been deceitful to Cloud; I don't think she even lied to him. If ever she missed out on telling him everything about herself, it's either she's protecting herself (because she's a Cetra and those of her kind are being condemned like Jews during the Nazi time, I think)... or her time with Cloud had been cut short before she could tell him everything. But well, at least she's not like Tifa! Tifa really.... *gets censored by the media regulatory board because of libelous statements against Tifa* :P

Whoever said that Aerith was deceitful to Cloud: ... yeah right. <_<

I agree with your statemant, Tifa Lockhart. The way I see it, I think her was cut short rather than not wanting to tell Cloud everything. But other than that, I think she was still trying to spiritually.

Tifa on the other hand only 'revealed' the 'truth' to Cloud when she was desperate or when Cloud was at a critical stage. I bet she just wanted Cloud to be the way she wanted him to be ever since they were kids. It's like an 'if I told him earlier, he wouldn't have 'achieved' so much or be as good as he is now' sort of situation. I may be wrong or just speaking my mind, but that isjust my assumption.

Why on Earth do people say such cruel things about someone who hadn't done any harm to them? The answer is beyond me.

Yep, exactly my feeling, Rinoa. I get that a lot and they make so kind of story up that its not lies. Sure,it isn't. So when your friend do that to you, do you use the same analogy?

There's just a difference between Aeris and Tifa situations. Aeris doesn't know a bit about Cloud but look at her, she's asking and learning many things about him. Where so, Tifa knew zip about Cloud...so Cloud is just a fake, but doesn't do anything besides whine. But with Aeris, she's trying to learn and it look like to me, leading Cloud to the right path.

Like I say, there wasn't much for Aeris to elaborate on her own culture and when they visited Nanaki's grandpa, that's when she learn a bit of info. on the lifestream and such. Rather this help her or not, Aeris still didn't quite understand everything about her culture.

Yep, Tifa Lockheart.
Exactly my thoughts. Aeris told what she knew but even she didn't know everything. How can you expect someone to tell you everything when they don't know everything? Aeris told bits and pieces but even she was puzzled. Clotis saying that she lied where there's no concrete evidence is quite ridiculous. But on the other case with Tifa,.....there's quite a lot of concrete evidence for that. :lol:

:angry: they blame aeris for not teling cloud she was a cetra???

first of all, she was not proud being a cetra because she felt it make her diferent to the others...
i wonder if zack knew she was a cetra :o

tifa is who didnt say the true to zack. If in Gongaga cloud and tifa and aeris are togueter, when zacks fathers talk about him and the girls went out..

if cloud talk to tifa, he would ask if she know who is zack. She said " no, i dont know! :angry:

and aeris, when cloud ask her , she could hace said:

no cloud!

but she answers:

yes, it was mi first love. I told you before, remember?

see the diference... :angry:

Yeah,
it's quite odd the way Tifa runs out with Aerith during that scene.
in fact according to the Flashback in the Lifestream, Tifa only met Zack when he and Sephiroth went to Nibelheim. I bet she didn't get to know that well either.
If you ask me, she ran out of the house in Gongaga just to get attention .:unsure:

I don't think Zack knew she was a Cetra as he was away most of the time going on missions and assignments. Didn't Aerith say they were together only a while?How long they were together, I'm not quite sure,though.:ph43r:

In fact, I think Aerith had been more open-minded to Cloud than Tifa had been. She may have not told him everything, but atleast she told the truth unlike Tifa.
How could the Clotis not realise that, especially if it's right in front of them? :huh:

If anyone was deceitful to Cloud in FFVII on his side, it would be Tifa. If she hadn't went along with Cloud's story in Kalm, who knows where the story would have gone. Aeris didn't do a thing to Cloud and she kept nothing from him. Cloud even asked Tifa again in Junon after the "voice" told him to ask her about it. And it wasn't like she told him the truth then either. <_<

ROFL! That's priceless! Yeah, that Aeris sure is a nasty piece of work...she's go to any lengths to make people miserable... :lol:

So Tifa Strife was making those claims as well? Geez... I hope this silly argument doesn't spread any further... :blink:

Yes, it's all because a few rabid C/T fans can't counter the argument that Tifa deceived Cloud, so they respond by trying to make Aeris look bad in a similar way. How typical. :P

Very true - Tifa had a golden opportunity to tell Cloud the truth in Gongaga (and earlier in Junon, as Cloud's Girl pointed out) when he asks her directly for the truth (and she still hides it). She doesn't tell him the truth until the last minute, when it does the most damage. She never meant any harm to come of it, but harm did come of her silence. Sure, she was trying to protect Cloud, and was frightened and confused about things herself, but that's a very poor excuse for hiding the truth despite Cloud giving her many chances to tell him.

There's one possible exception to this: At the Temple of the Ancients, when Cloud has something of a fit, she plays along with his view that nothing's wrong, rather than telling him that something worrying just happened to him.

Here's the scene in full:

(Cloud is standing before the mural of Meteor as the others catch up with him. His body flashes with the same electricity that Sephiroth's had moments before.)
Aeris: "Cloud!!"
(Cloud turns his head slightly toward them, then goes back to the mural.)
Tifa: "Hey, Cloud!"
(Cloud turns his head again to them, then back to the mural. Again he turns, then back. He starts laughing.)
Cloud: "Ha ha ha.... Black Materia. Ha ha ha.... Call Meteor."
Aeris: "Cloud!! Get a hold of yourself!"
(Cloud brings his hands up and clutches his head, and we see that the white energy is really another double of Cloud, just like Sephiroth's double before. The double disappears, briefly.)
Cloud: "Cloud...I'm... Cloud..."
(The double reappears around Cloud's body. He shakes his head.)
Cloud: "How should I?"
(Cloud begins to move his arms and legs randomly, assuming many different poses. The double does the same, and it is very apparent that the double is moving as another entity, totally separate from Cloud. Eventually he stops, and the double seems to disappear into Cloud.)
Cloud: "...I remember! I remember my way."
(Cloud turns and walks toward Aeris.)
Aeris: "...Cloud."
(Cloud shrugs.)
Cloud: "Mm? What's wrong? Is something wrong?"
(Aeris shakes her head.)
Aeris: "...It's nothing so don't worry about it."
(She nods toward Tifa)
Aeris: "Right, Cloud! It's nothing."
(She turns back and leans toward Cloud)
Aeris: "Sephiroth got away."

Aeris not only tells Cloud that nothing's wrong but she indicates for the other member of your party not to contradict her, and then changes the subject. I was wondering, what do you guys make of this? Obviously, she's concerned and made a decision based on that concern and her assessment of the situation. And knowing Aeris, I think she would've told him afterwards when they were out of danger (if she hadn't had to leave the party, of course). But does her temporary silence and avoiding of the subject count as being deceitful? What do you think? :rolleyes:

It doesn't count as being decietful. She is optimistic and telling him "not to worry about it" is a whole lot different than keeping his entire past a secret. I see it as a way to help him keep his thoughts focused on the main picture and not just add more and more worry onto him. Because everyone has a breaking point where they just collapse under all the pressure and worry. Aeris didn't want to add to this with something she herself wasn't sure of. It is still very far away of being "deceitful".

yes, when cloud in the temple of the ancients, cloud give the black materia to sefirot, aeris will say: its nothing cloud...its not your fault...its diferent to tifa, who didnt say the true of clouds past. she is a liar :angry:

did you know at first tifa was nto going to appear in ff7? only aeris was going to be the female.. :rolleyes:

Yeah I've heard about it , but not many believe that it was true. Some people I know think that I'm talking crap when I told them about it <_< .

I still don't understand why prefer Tifa to Aerith. Tifa ( so far I've seen) would never comfort anyone or tell the truth when it was important to just to suit her own self and expects something from someone whom she didn't care about when she was younger :angry: .
Sorry if I went overboard, was having a heating group discussion with classmates :(.

Anyway, I just hope that everything will turn out ok and Cloud is reunited with Aerith to end his grieving and lamenting once and for all :) . Atleast by then, Aerith would know the 'real' Cloud.

I actually agree with your point CG, but I'm going to be a meanie and prod you anyway. :P

But couldn't you say the exact same thing about Tifa when she makes her decision to not tell Cloud his memories are wrong? How is what she did different to what Aeris did? He asked her if anything was wrong, and she said "nothing" and indicates to the third member not to contradict her. Isn't this the same as what Tifa did? Sure, their actions had different results, but their action is the same? Why then is Tifa criticised for it while Aeris gets away with it? :rolleyes:

[/Playing Devil's Advocate]

Let me input some of my thoughts on behalf of CG :P

I can see why CG explains that the intensity of the "lie" is different, and thus, not to be taken as deceit.
The main issue here i believe, is "event" vs "history". Putting up a white lie, infact in Aerith's case it was more of a brushoff, in an event VS lying about an entire history. That is what differentiates them.

There wasn't anything Tifa WASN'T sure about though. She knew how the past went, but she didn't tell Cloud, and even when Cloud asked her about it, she was very evasive.

Aerith wasn't completely sure of the future, so there was no intentional "deceit". She kept any possible bad answer from Cloud due to many things like her optimism and Cloud's fragile state. Telling him something worrisome that COULD happen while he is on the edge of a breakdown wouldn't help the situation a single bit.

I don't think either one of the girls would do anything to purposely hurt Cloud in any way, so I think the word "deceit" in these situations is completely wrong.


Damn you guys for making me get back into these discussions. :lol:

Sheesh. When Aeris first meets Cloud, he's wearing a SHINRA UNIFORM. Considering her past history with them, is it any wonder she plays things a bit cautiously with the info?