Well, i have been thinking about it...my question was...why Cloud has not try to meet aeris after ff7???


Well, what the promised land really is? In ultimania omega, we learn that for shinra, sefirot and the cetra, it was not the same think.


**The Ancients Relation 1: The Promised Land** (005.2A)
The aim of the Cetra was to find the land where supreme happiness awaited.
Passed down as an oral tradition, what the land of supreme happiness is
supposed to be was never concretely identified.

The Shin-Ra interpreted that a land of supreme happiness must be somewhere
where they could find abundant mako [as it would make them even more wealthy],
and wished to use an Ancient to help them find it, while Sephiroth considered
the Promised Land to be a place in which he could draw the power to use the
Black Materia in his aim to become a "god." Though both of them had different
goals, they both got the idea that the Northern Crater was the place they were
looking for.

The theory of one of the Planet Life scholars [in Cosmo Canyon] is that the
Cetra's mission to find the land of supreme happiness is equivalent to the
peaceful sleep [of dying and returning to the Planet] (a line delivered [in
the game]). According to this theory, the Lifestream -- to which everyone
returns -- is itself the Promised Land, but this is not something that one can
assert to be true for everyone. Therefore, it is in each person's hands to
take their own interpretation.

(Accompanying screenshot caption)
For one with the conception that the Promised Land is a place where energy
swells up from inside the sleeping earth, the Northern Crater -- where the
Lifestream breathes forth -- may be it.

------------------------
So, in the end of ff7, we can see that cloud defeats sefirot in the spiritual word, and that is why he is able to see aeris hand emerging from the lifestream...

He is in the spiritual word...

And the, suddenly, he is back to the normal word, and he rescue tifa...he will say ( in my spanish version is like this)

Cloud: I begin to understand...

Tifa: what?

Cloud: the answer from the planet...The promised land....i think that in this place i will be able to meet......her

Tifa: yes, we are going to see her

As you see, cloud has realized that is in the spiritual word where he will meet aeris.
Tifa agree, in the english version i know that she is says: yes, lets go to meet her ( or something like this).

I think that tifa is not saying: cloud, now we are going to see her.
I think she is trying to say: one day we will see again....

what i am trying to say is that , to go to the promosed land there is a previous condition: YOU MUEST DIE.

Yes, i truly think this. The promised land is the same as the lifestream, in the aeris novel you learn this. In the novel, we can see that dyne meets eleonor, so...why cloud and aeris will not be togueter? Because she is a cetra?

Another thing i have learn in the Ultimania Omega, is that the cetra and the human being is not so different, plus, aeris is half human, remember?

So...what if cloud has understand that he will see aeris after dying? what if tifa is saying is: yes cloud, we will see her again....later, when our lives ends.

I think it makes sense.

I really think that they will meet again, after diying...

what do you think? :cleris:

Perhaps.

But I think the Promised Land is largely up to people's own interpretation.

Everyone's idea of happiness are different, so it makes sense that the Promised Land would differ as well.

I do think Cloud would want to see Aerith again after death, but he doesn't need to do die to meet her. A spiritual connection is just as strong as a physical one, and Nomura states that Aerith's consciousness lives eternally inside him so he's able to sense her prescence without having to die and go off to the Lifestream.

Sometimes I think the flower field we saw at Calling could be a viable candidate as Cloud's idea of a "Promised Land."

And perhaps it's better if they're alone there, since we can see how little time they would have together in the Lifestream if Aerith is as busy as she was in MotP daily. :P

Well, how do we know that Cloud never tried to meet Aerith again after FFVII? After Aerith's death, Cloud threw himself into defeating Sephiroth and saving the world. This quest gave Cloud an outlet for his anger toward Sephiroth and kept him busy enough that he didn't have time to grieve or fret. After the battle, Cloud was able to see Aerith again briefly when they reached for each other (while Cloud's consciousness was in the Lifestream). Cloud was hopeful after that, telling Tifa that he thought he knew of a way to meet Aerith again. At the beginning of CoT, Cloud had retained this hopefulness and was ready to start over again. However, his past was not resolved and Cloud spoke of this to Barret. Later, Cloud began traveling all over Gaia making deliveries. For all we know, Cloud was searching for the Promised Land and a way to meet Aerith again during his travels. But, with his guilt eating at him, this was not so easy. Overwhelmed by his guilt, Cloud was unable to hear Aerith's voice or see her. Slowly, Cloud began to sink into depression and isolation, confessing to Tifa that his "problem" was that people couldn't "unlose their lives".

Remember when Aerith touched Cloud's arm in the flower field? It was very reminiscent of a scene in MotP, where Aerith got to meet Barret's old friend, Dyne. Dyne's entire figure was covered in blood and he had been unable to be reunited with his wife, Eleanor, in the Lifestream. Aerith told Dyne that the blood bound to him was created from his guilt. Aerith touched Dyne's arm and the blood covering him began to disappear until he was completely cleansed. Aerith gave Dyne the ability to start over again and rebuild his heart. It was only after his guilt was eradicated that Dyne was able to be with Eleanor again. It was much the same way with Cloud. Cloud was unable to see Aerith's face in his first visit with her in the flower field. But, after their conversations and that gentle touch to his arm, Cloud's guilt and grief began to lessen. Cloud was beginning to forgive himself. He was healing. And, later in the movie, Cloud was finally able to see Aerith's beautiful face in its entirety.

How do we know that, before all of this, Cloud was simply unable to see or hear Aerith due to his own guilt? How do we know he never looked for her during his travels? There is no Case of Cloud to tell us what all he did during his time out on the road. But, considering it took the nearness of a sacred place like the Forgotten City to enable Cloud to interact with Aerith, I would say it is safe to say that he was not able to hear or see her before (due to his own shame/guilt). After this encounter, Cloud began to heal and, as a result, began to see and hear Aerith more. That's my opinion anyways. ^_^

The theory of one of the Planet Life scholars [in Cosmo Canyon] is that the
Cetra's mission to find the land of supreme happiness is equivalent to the
peaceful sleep [of dying and returning to the Planet] (a line delivered [in
the game]). According to this theory, the Lifestream -- to which everyone
returns -- is itself the Promised Land, but this is not something that one can
assert to be true for everyone.

Maybe I've misunderstood or forgotten something, but I'm a little confused on why the Cetra would see the lifestream itself as the Promised Land. I thought the Promised Land was supposed to be a place where only the Cetra may return to, but apparently, everyone returns to the lifestream when they die. How does this theory work then? O.o

PinkRibbon:

I think my idea of the Promised Land is similar to yours.
I was thinking about what the Promised Land could be for Cloud and for Aerith, and for the two of them, I think I see it as the world of the living. After all, it is actually here that they are able to meet again. FFVII stresses on the importance of the Planet and all life within it. Certainly, they are very precious and dear to Aerith, otherwise, she wouldn't care to protect them the way she does...and she appears to be the only dead person who can truly return to the world of the living. Remember her line "I'll come back when it's all over"? Even the play Loveless seems to play on this with the line "I'll come back even if you've moved on, because I know you'll be waiting". Perhaps the world of the living can then be seen as Aerith's Promised Land. I think I'm also leaning towards this idea, because of what was shown during "Calling". According to the RF, the real landscape footages are supposed to really stress on the idea that Cloud and Aerith are in the world of the living. Aerith looked quite solid and comfortable in that surrounding as if she belonged there with him. So to me, their Promised Land appears to be the world of the living, but certainly, I've always thought the flowerfields to be extremely good representations of this live world/"Promised Land".

Well, what i think is that, the promised land....was the lifestream. Yes. The promised land was a place where you are happy for ever...there is no pain...even in the MoP aeris said:

" it is ok. Because i am no sleep yes. I will be here, in our land of hapinees. Our promised land"

So, what if the truth was that the promised land DOES NOT EXISTS? i mean, it was not what they thought it was going to be, is the lifestream. Only this. So Cloud will go...

But i think you are right when you say that the flowerfield in the end on the game may be how it is the promised land for cloud and aeris :)

the truth is, i do not undertand this part of the movie.... :no:

Hm, interesting. I think that's a likely explanation.

*smacks forehead* I'd forgotten about that. Do you think it slipped Square's mind when they wrote that theory through the "Planet life scholars"?

That's a great observation about the real landscape footages! Perhaps the scene in which Aerith looks quie solid (unlike the dreamy quality of the scene where they stand back-to-back) the Promised Land for Cloud is also place in which he is able to almost feel like he can physically meet her, not just spiritually connecting with her.

The definite conclusion we can draw out of Ultima Omega is that the Promised Land is up to one's interpretation. To Aerith, the Promised Land was the Lifestream; to Sephiroth, it was the Northern Crater.

I think the Promised Land does exist, but it exists different forms so it's hard to pinpoint one as THE one.

Well, I don't think it was meant to be easy to understand. I think Nomura said that Calling was supposed to tell a big part of Cloud's feelings/etc., and if it was easy to figure out, then the CloTi fans would riot. ;)

*has no idea*
It just doesn't make complete sense...unless, again, I'm forgetting something.

Yup...I was happy to see the RF back that up:
"In keeping with the notion that Cloud is in the live-action world at the end, we filmed the video for the ending credits in Hawaii. There are fields of flowers on both sides of the road, and the colors, yellow and white- are the same as the flowers in Aerith's church." - Nomura

Yeah, I always took the line "...the Promised Land...I can meet her...there" to mean that, more than just being able to feel her spiritually, it's the place where he can physically meet up with her/see her again. Cloud saw her again several times throughout the movie in various places.

Just curious, but where did you get that from?
I can't seem to recall any sources stating that...or did they? :unsure:

To me, the promised land is a state of supreme happiness. Cloud found that within himself at the end of AC, realising Aerith has never left him at all. To me, calling is a representation of Cloud's state of mind. He's at peace, he's contented...he's not alone. Is Aerith really there physically in the flowerfields? Well it doesn't really matter..Remember, Aerith lives within Cloud's consciousness always :3

That's very interesting, STA.
So you don't think the Promised Land is an actual physical place for Cloud...but rather, his state of mind? If so, what do you think of Aerith's Promised Land then? Do you think it's the same as his, sis? After all, her consiousness does live on within him...so you could say that he "meets" her there. Also, what do you think is the significance of flowerfields (both the one in calling and the one where Cloud spoke with Aerith), and if they symbolize anything at all, what do you feel they may symbolize?

In the aeris novel, aerith said that she would rest in the lifestream, in the promised land....for here, the promised land is tha lifestream.

About Cloud's word of : I am not alone anymore


it is because he has realize aeris is with him or because tifa, the children and the other will be with him? :unsure:

Something interesting, i have hear the clotis said that when marlene wanted to go home with cloud, ( when they are in the forgotten city with vincent) cloud will say:

" Marlene, lets go home"

So Clotis said that for cloud, home was with marlene, tifa and denzel...well,in the spanish version he say only:

" Marlene, lest go"

And then, in the end when cloud is in the church he say:

" I am home"

So.. <_<

If I recall correctly, Aerith didn't say she was going to rest "in the lifestream, in the Promised Land". All she said was she was going to rest "here in our Promised Land". Frankly, I think "here in our Promised Land" could mean just about anything and doesn't necessarily refer to the lifestream.

IMO, it has more to do with knowing that Aerith is still around...since Tifa and the rest of the family has been with him all along. Aerith is the one who he thought had been taken away but realized was still with him. Maybe I'm just biased? :P

Doesn't really matter to me where Cloud's home is, actually. Since Barret lives there too, it's his home as well. If it isn't proof of love between Barret and Tifa, then neither does it prove anything for Cloti.

In AC, I don't think Cloud is literally in a flowerfield. I feel that he's just spiritually being in one, and Aerith is talking to him ,spirit to spirit. Physically, he's still riding his fenrir on his way to save the kids.

In Calling, the flowerfields are real. He is there in the flowerfields, and flowers symbolise Aerith. So he's there physically, with Aerith (imho, is not there physically, but spiritually within him :unsure:)

I think her promised land is infinite. It's the planet, together with the lifestream, and its people. :unsure:

:o It's even backed up by Nomura! :D

In Maiden who Travels the Planet. But perhaps it would be accurate to say that to Aerith, the Cetras' Promised Land was the Lifestream (don't ask me how that works when it's supposed to be only for Cetras). Interestingly enough, Aerith refers to the Lifestream as a Cetra.

It's pretty much up to interpretation, really--suprise, surprise. :P

I agree. The flowerfield in AC has a rather dreamy, etheral quality to it, and plus, it happens right in the middle of his ride to the Forgotten City. He's still burdened with guilt, so I don't know if he can be supremely happy (since that's how you're supposed to feel in the Promised Land) then.

Hm, that's a plausible explanation. It's certainly consistent with the fact that Aerith's consciousness lives inside him.

But I can't tug off the notion that there's a reason why they went to the trouble of filming in Hawaii to do so to emphasize the fact that Cloud is in a "live-action world." Why not draw the setting the way they did for the other ones if Cloud was there physically and Aerith spiritually (i.e flowerfield where they stand back-to-back)? Or is it just to contrast with the old flowerfield with the real-live one?

Logically, I can see where you're coming from and would probably agree with you, but imagery-wise, I think it might be a little different.

In AC, Aerith is always surrounded by white light. When she's in the flowerfield in Cloud's mind, when she's healing Cloud, and when she's standing by the doorway at the end of AC. In Calling, it's different. She's not surrounded by white, etheral light, but covered with the golden rays of sunshine.

The white light, I think, was supposed to represent spiritual settings in Cloud's mind; it was rather surreal, not really something you see in nature in reality. If you think about it, the only person who ever even saw or communicated with Aerith (and Zack) was Cloud. The sunshine, and the fact that they filmed this scene all the way in Hawaii, I think is supposed to emphasize being in a physical place with Aerith outside Cloud's mind. All throughout the movie, she's been with him spiritually. I think the "live-action world" represents that perhaps she was there physically (somehow) to Cloud. I don't think filiming it in "live-action world" was just to show that he's in RL (and so the flowerfield is real in Calling); Cloud was physically in the other places (Seventh Heaven, Forgotten City, Aerith's church, etc.) too.--but I think there's a symbolic (not just monetary/business-wise) reason as to why they didn't film those scenes in the real world.

That's not exactly correct.
In the flowerfield in AC where they stand back to back, Cloud is NOT there physically. It is a spiritual state. Physically, Cloud is riding on his fenrir.
In Calling, Cloud is there physically in the flowerfields. Why do they want to trouble filming this real world in Hawaii? I think it is to emphasize that Aerith is there with him in the real world. Without her body... but her consciousness is always with him. Which ties in with AC ending..when Cloud realised he was never alone.
There is still actually a contrast in message brought across by these two flowerfield scenes despite me believing Aerith is not there physically, in her flesh and bones. :gift:

This I 100% agree with. I don't think we differ in the belief that Calling is meant to show Aerith is with him in the real world.

*nods*

Well the thing is, I do see a contrast (see my post above). It's not so much that I don't believe that there isn't a constrast either way, because there is both ways, but what I'm wondering is HOW much greater the contrast is.

Points I agree with
-Flowerfield in AC is when Aerith is with him spiritually; Cloud is in a flowerfield in created by his mind (not real)
-Flowerfield in Calling is show that Aerith is still with Cloud, who is physically within a real flowerfield
-There is a contrast between showing a spiritual flowerfield and a real-live one; filming it in Hawaii is a crucial aspect of showing that contrast

Points where we might differ
-Whether or not the flowerfield of Calling is when Cloud can feel like she's there physically or spiritually
-To the extent of the contrast. It could be:
a. to show a contrast between the fake flowerfield with the real one
b. shows contrast stated in a), but goes deeper: white, etheral light may represent that Aerith is with him spiritually (she is in settings usually within Cloud); golden rays of sunlight may represent that Aerith too is with him physically (not just within Cloud, though she still exists in his consciousness) = Promised Land for Cloud (?)

I hope the list cleared it up a bit. I apologize if my positions were confusing in the last post.

When I mean "physically," I don't exactly mean Aerith's coming back to life in flesh and bones in real world with him...Even in a fantasy world where logic is often defied, it's not possible for Aerith. The flowerfield in AC is Cloud's Promised Land, and in a realm of supreme happiness, I don't think there is a defining, clear barrier between the dead and the living. I think the Promised Land a place in which such barriers can be crossed, in which the real world and the spiritual world are linked, but more akin to the real world.

Am I making sense?

Ahh yes, I understand your pov better now ^^

I like the way your way of seeing "the promised land" =) Certainly, FF7 and AC allow for many interpretations of the same thing. I respect your pov but still maintain my interpretation of the game and AC ^^"
For myself, I cannot see how a patch of flowerfield can be the promised land.. a real place where barriers can be crossed. How do you define which flowerfield the promised land is? Is it any flowerfield? Or it is that specific one in Hawaii D:?
Flowerfields, to me, are symbolisms. Symbolism of Aerith, of Cloud being with her (despite the girl not being there in flesh and bones).

Somtimes I get sick of all this "interpret it all you want" thing, and I wish Square would just assert their authority and just say it! :P And of course, I respect your opinions as well. I can't say I'm that confident in my beliefs as you are in yours though, because right now, I'm actively exploring other interpretations so nothing's really solidified yet. So if I sound different from one post to the next, it's because I'm actively revising. (Sorry about that.)

Well, the Promised Land can't be in the real world (nor the spiritual world)--because in the real world, a clear barrier between the dead and living exists. Cloud is physically in the Promised Land as is Aerith, but not in the sense that physical presence = presence in real world, and spiritual presence = presence in one's mind or other spiritual parts of the world. More in the sense that they are there in a place/some location in which the real world and the spiritual world is linked.

Also, I don't think the Promised Land is a set flowerfield for everybody. The flowerfield in AC may be Cloud's Promised Land, but it may not exactly be some random person in Midgar's Promised Land because everyone's definition of "supreme happiness" differs. So essentially, one's Promised Land is how one makes it out to be.

To tell you the truth, I don't think where Cloud's Promised Land is truly matters. I think what matters more to Cloud is that it contains or reminds him of an essence of Aerith (flowers are probably her most identifying motif)--a place where he can almost feel like he can physically meet her (but it's not really physically, nor is it exactly spiritually). And that one place is where the barrier between the dead and living can be transcended.

I think the Promised Land is more of a manifestation of one idea's of supreme happiness. Happiness can't really be seen, but the Promised Land is a place in which supreme happiness can be recreated visually to one's eyes. Cloud's Promised Land is what his idea of supreme happiness were to look like.

This sounds confusing, but I'm trying to distinguish between representation and visual recreation. Cloud's Promised Land of supreme happiness isn't represented by a flowerfield; any place in which the closest he can ever be to meet her physically--in this case, a flowerfield since that is what Aerith is most commonly identified with---is what his Promised Land would like it if we could see it with our naked eyes. The difference is hard to see between the latter and symbolism, but it's there and very subtle (albeit small).

[NOTE: I love having discussions like this. I don't get too much opportunity in RL to say this to anyone, so I seize what opportunities there are. So thank you for listening to my ramblings, slowerthanaverage. :huggle:]

Well, all your posts are very interesting!

Mi opinion is:

Yes, you are right, aeris is always surrounded by a white light, a pure light ( i think that it represents aeris is in Cloud's mind) but in the end, you are correct, aeris is in the flowerfiled...and she seems soo real!!


When Cloud is riding his bike, he is smiling :P , we can see aeris back...and then, suddlenly...is like she has felt or hear someone, because she will turn around!! whenever i see this, i think: oh my god, Aeris senses that cloud is coming!!!

Maybe, Cloud is imagining it, i mean, maybe cloud thinks that aeris, somewhere, is waiting for him in a flowerfield( promised land) and that someday they will be again togueter :cleris:

I don't think that the Promised Land is on Gaia. I also doubt that the Lifestrem is the Promised Land either. if it was then why was it being suck up by Omega? Maybe the Promised Land was out there for the Centra and they're still looking for it. There was never happiness in the lifestream because of two outbreaks, Meteorfall and Deepground disrupting it.

err in my opinion...

Cloud's line:
"i'm beginning to understand now. the promised land."
"i think i can meet her... there."

or something like that.
so what happens before that... he fought sephiroth. and when he died(?) green lifestreamy stuff began to surround him. then we see aerith's hand reaching out to his.

so i think Cloud's promised land would be Aerith's too.

"a land with supreme happiness."
"you search for it, until you feel it." (or something like these)

a land of supreme happiness is the promised land. in the promised land, he believes he'll meet Aerith. so we could say that Cloud's interpretation of the Promised Land would be the place wherever Aerith is. as long as Aerith is with him, he could feel the promised land.

and that's all for my opinion. XD

Hmm, that's a very good point. Perhaps Cloud's "answer from the planet" came during the hand reach scene with Aerith. Perhaps Cloud suddenly felt supreme happiness at the possibility of seeing Aerith again and suddenly knew what it felt like to be in the Promised Land...?

Sorry... rambling.... :lol:

EXACTLEH. :D and at the same time, he probably understood what The Promised Land really is. or HIS promised land. :cleris: