Clotis say Cloud and Tifa are perfect together because they are so alike LOL :lmao:

The question they never ask is

Is she a stable source of strength for Cloud? (does he not always have to comfort and reassure her?)

Does Tifa actually make Cloud happy? or even content for that matter?

The answer is an obvious no

Why? Too many reasons to count, but for starters:


[QUOTE]Tifa
"Hey, why don't we make a promise?"
"Umm, if you get really famous and I'm ever in a bind....."
"You come save me, all right?"

Cloud
"What?"

Tifa
"Whenever I"m in trouble, my hero will come and rescue me."
"I want to at least experience that once."

Cloud
"What?"

Tifa
"Come on--! Promise me----!"

Cloud
"All right.... I promise."

Shouldn't Cloud have been happy and eager to make such a promise. Why does he sound so confused? Is it because there is a stipulation(condition)
that Cloud has to be a hero if he's ever allowed to rescue Tifa? Why
must he be held to such a standard?

Why can't he be just Cloud? No wonder why he didn't want to remember his promise. And it's not like u can say it's because she was young, because she still
holds him to the promise as if he should cherish it. LOL
Tifa
"You remember now? ...Our promise?"

Cloud
"I'm not a hero and I'm not famous. I can't keep.... the promise."

Tifa
"But you got your childhood dream, didn't you? You joined SOLDIER."

(Cloud looks down.)

Tifa
"So come on! You've got to keep your promise......"

It's obvious she can't let go. See the way it's expressed that Cloud looks down?
He feels like a failure. As if he's not good enough. Tifa wants her knight and shining armor so much that she completely ignores Cloud's feelings. It's supposed to be a happy memory, but it's not. IT only is a reminder to Cloud that he could never meet Tifa's expectations.

A short while after he met Aeris, she's teasing him and making him laugh

Aerith
"Wait... Wait, I said!"

(She catches up, carefully, femininely judging each gap.)

"Puff... wheeze..."
"Slow.... down.... Don't leave me...."

Cloud
"Funny..."
"I thought you were cut out to be
in SOLDIER?"

Aerith
"Oh! You're terrible!"

(Cloud laughs.)

It's obvious even though they have just met, that they're developing a bond. Cloud with Tifa looked down at his feet, and acted indifferent and tough to hide
how insecure and lonely he felt.

Aeris, she doesn't expect anything out of him. She believes in Cloud and doesn't question his actions. She just wants him to be Cloud.

Aerith
"I'm all right. I had Cloud with me."


IT's obvious she makes him feel special and important. As if he's finally being accepted.

There are so many more scenes in the whole ffvii compilation that show Cloud being more happy and content with Aeris than with Tifa :envy:


State your reasons and prove to the Clotis that the pairing isn't a content or happy pairing, but one of sadness, depression, and insecurity

Use quotes and examples with Aeris and Tifa to prove who Cloud is really stable, content and happy with.

I have heard lots of people say opposites attract the best like magnets

so I'm going to go with what you say and agree that cloud and Tifa are too alike.

i guess on those terms i couldn't see it working out (plus he still has aerith in his heart)

but do opposites really attract because i have had lots of people dissagree with me and tell me it's a cliché thing and couples in real life dont'work like that. admittedly i cant say with certainty if thats true (for my expirience) so i'd like to get some imput.

IMO, no, Tifa doesn't/wouldn't make Cloud happy in a romantic relationship. I have yet to see any rabid CloTis focus on what Cloud wants, what would make Cloud happy. From all the evidence I have seen from FFVII, subsequent games, and Advent Children, Cloud would be most happy with Aerith. This is a major difference between a lot of CloTi fans and ClAeris fans. It seems as if CloTi fans focus on what Tifa wants and what they think Tifa deserves. ClAeris fans focus on what Cloud wants and what drives Cloud to do certain things.

Aerith and Cloud are much more compatible than Tifa and Cloud. First let us look at Tifa and what she needs in a significant other. Tifa is a very tragic person. She has had many unhappy events in her life, including the death of her father at the hands of Sephiroth, the death of her mother when she was very young, the razing of Nibelheim by Sephiroth, and the destruction of Sector 7 in Midgar. Tifa is potrayed in FFVII as being very pessimistic, uncertain, and insecure. Tifa often becomes hysterical in high-pressure situations, while Aerith remains calm, supportive, and optimistic. When it comes to physical strength in the women of FFVII, Tifa is tops. However, when you look at her mental, emotional, and spiritual strength, Tifa is rock-bottom. Tifa needs a man that will support her, comfort her, and be her "hero". Are any of these things Cloud? Sorry, but no. Cloud is not the type of person to support or comfort anyone, and he certainly wasn't interested in fulfilling the promise to Tifa. In fact, Cloud is the type of person who needs someone to comfort and support him.

So, in many, many ways, Tifa and Cloud are just alike. That is why a relationship between these two could just never work. They both need someone who is open with their feelings (since neither of them can be honest with each other, or open with their innermost feelings for that matter), someone who is confident (because they are both rather insecure), and someone who is mentally and emotionally strong (because neither Tifa nor Cloud fit this description). Why would Cloud open up to someone who can't open up to him? Plus, Cloud could never measure up to Tifa's expectations of him, stating, "I could never live up to being Cloud." All throughout the game, he felt as if he had let Tifa down and Tifa was constantly worrying about him or asking for help from him. Tifa truly expected too much of Cloud, which made him feel like a failure. Their relationship was just a tad unhealthy.

Cloud and Tifa's incompatibility was clearly documented in the novella, Case of Tifa. Tifa was shown wishing time and time again that Cloud would change. His mannerisms seemed to bother and/or annoy her at times-- Tifa didn't like Cloud's names for the bar, she laughed at the fact that Cloud didn't know the names of a lot of fruits and vegetables, she didn't understand Cloud's need to be alone at times, she didn't know how to speak about her feelings to Cloud, and Tifa selfishly ignored Cloud's belief that Denzel had been brought to him by Aerith in favor of her own ideas that Denzel had been brought to Cloud just to be brought to her (as payment for her sins while she was a member of AVALANCHE).

Also, in CoT, Cloud showed a complete lack of understanding in regards to Tifa's personality when he remarked that it wasn't like Tifa "to get weighed down" and that she is "upbeat and strong". However, from Case of Tifa, not to mention FFVII itself, you see that this is not the case at all. In CoT, Tifa was overwhelmed with guilt due to the actions of AVALANCHE and often questioned whether or not she deserved to live or die. Tifa feared for her future and felt helpless. Even Barret knew Tifa's true nature, saying, "If Tifa doesn't work, she'll just get to thinkin', and 'fore you know it she won't be able to do nothin' else." Does this sound like someone who doesn't "get weighed down"? Does this sound like someone who is "upbeat and strong"?

Hell, even in FFVII, Tifa was never the upbeat, strong member of the party. She was always lamenting this or that, whining about Cloud, saying she didn't know what to do, asking to be protected, etc... Barret even remarked once about how much of a "wimp" Tifa had become at one point during the game. Tifa was never upbeat and strong. She admitted this herself in CoT, saying to Cloud: "Now you know... how I am." In fact, the one who was always upbeat and strong, regardless of her crappy past and all of the terrible events surrounding her was Aerith. And the one who was never weighed down by regret was Aerith. Is Cloud somehow transposing Aerith's personality on Tifa? It seems that way.

Speaking of Aerith, let's take a look at her now... while Aerith's life wasn't always grand, she made a point out of remaining optimistic, cheerful, and happy. Aerith was always there to support Cloud and ease his fears, letting him know that everything was okay. In terms of strength of character, emotional strength, mental strength, and spiritual strength, Aerith had enough for her and Cloud both. Cloud needs a woman like this. Someone who can help him through trying times. Someone that he can open up to. Someone he can be himself around. Aerith never let Cloud put on the "tough guy act". She took charge and got him to open up and be himself for once. With Aerith, Cloud could be just plain Cloud. With Tifa, Cloud had to be SOLDIER First Class Cloud.

In the official novella, Maiden of the Planet, you get a chance to see that Aerith truly loves Cloud. In fact, she loves everything about him and continues to love him even when she finds out the truth about his past. Aerith loves Cloud for who he is and adores his simplistic awkwardness, a trait that actually seems to annoy Tifa in CoT.

With Aerith, Cloud was truly happy. The only time in FFVII that Cloud smiled and laughed because of one person was when he was with Aerith. And the only time in FFVII that Cloud cried was when he lost her. Aerith's love was the force that broke down the emotional barrier around Cloud. After meeting her, he began to change for the better. In fact, the only time during the game in which Cloud almost confesses his feelings to anyone is in Cosmo Canyon, when he is trying to comfort Aerith in one of her only moments of sadness. Cloud says, "But, I'm-- I mean-- we're here for you, right?" Tifa said basically the same thing to Cloud under the Highwind, saying that she was all alone and had nowhere to go. Did Cloud try to comfort Tifa? No. Did Cloud say he would be there for her? No. And yet he did both of these things for Aerith.

Don't forget that wine incident in CoT. I think that part summed up their relationship. Cloud's just being bossed around like crazy..."Then go to your room...BI^%*". (not exactly like the quote but close) And not only that, but Barret made a comment that wine was everyone's solution to their problem, which so happens that Cloud (which I thought was a non-alcoholic) would be drinking away in misery through wine. Cloud wanted to be alone sipping his wine and not have Tifa interrupt the wine solving his problems. Not only that but she wanted to tell Cloud something but replied that he wanted to sip some wine by himself, alone, in solitude and because of this Tifa is now frustrated with him. Is this a good sign at all? Can a relationship like that be a happy one?

Quote of the wine incident:

It was night and they had closed the bar. Cloud was drinking wine even though he rarely does. He drained his glass. Tifa hesitated before going over and filling his glass.

"Shall I join you?" There was something she wanted to talk to him about.

"I want to drink alone."

Hearing that, Tifa lost control and said, "Then drink in your room."

Barret had called a few times. Most of the time, he wouldn't talk about himself but instead, asked more about how Marlene was doing. Then everytime he would end the call by having a little chat with Marlene. Marlene wondered if Tifa was listening or not before she told Barret in a sad voice, "Cloud and Tifa aren't getting along very well."

No matter what feelings Cloud and Tifa had between them, they couldn't drag Marlene into it Tifa thought to herself. [End point]

Depressed Cloud is what I see most of the time when there is interaction occuring between Tifa and Cloud in an emotional and mental level. And what surprises me the most is Tifa dragging Marlene into the whole situation? Maybe to have a minor child can bind them together again? Even if Cloud x Tifa's relationship is "enduring" and "blossoming", I'm being honest, it's a stern comradic and companion relationship they will be together fighting forever, but not a romantic one.

Awsome FF_G!

Tifa is the girl that grew up with everything and lost it all. Now, she seems rather downbeat about it and is tryin gto get her perfect life back.

Cloud and Aeris on the other hand pretty much never had anything and Aeris was always happy with that while Cloud seemed to learn overtime that just being who he was was perfectly fine.

Cloud doesn't need anybody that's going to drag him where he doesn't care to go.

Good points, you two. :D I was actually thinking of the wine incident when I wrote "... she didn't understand Cloud's need to be alone at times, she didn't know how to speak about her feelings to Cloud...". I guess if CloTis wanted a specific example, I could type up a rebuttal on how Tifa lost it when Cloud rebuffed her, wanting to be alone. :lol:

Some of the Clotis claim that if Aerith and Cloud got together things would be pink and happy. But with Tifa they would have fights and kiss and make up and that would make them the perfect couple because a real relationship involve fighting and then having hot make up sex afterwards.

::roll eyes:: They are so retarted it's not even funny. Half the time Tifa is doing the talking and not the other way around. I don't think Cloud understand half the things that she tells him...Reno pretty much had to spell it out for him. Bottom line is Cloud has a hard time understanding Tifa and vice versa.

Cloti means Cloud/Tifa, am i right? sorry I don't know much about slangs...anyway, I'm a different Cloti okay?! I just like the idea of Cloud/Tifa, but I think they're not canon!!! *just self defense*

Anyway, as for the question, no I don't think Tifa makes Cloud happy=well, it's obvious that Cloud runs away from Tifa and I think Advent Children tells that Cloud prefers to be with Aerith... :cleris:

Well, I don't know if it means anything but even Cloud's mother told him that he sould find an older girlfriend ( :aeris: ) that would take care of him! That's what would make him happy!!If Tifa can't take care of herself how can she take care of Cloud??

Yes Cloti means Cloud x Tifa.

Yep. His mother never mentioned Tifa which strikes me as odd since Cloud lived next door to her. Wouldn't his mother have teased him about it if he indeed had a crush on Tifa? She seem like the teasing type to me and Cloud wears his heart out on his sleeves. You just have to learn how to read him. He won't express his feelings with words but he does so with his eyes and facial expressions.

One of the reasons why Clotis hate Aerith is because they paint this picture of her as a damsel in distress. Aerith said it in the game that she can take care of her self and she's been doing it for years. If Tifa is as strong as the Clotis say she is then why does she need Cloud to save her when she's in a bind? And more importantly why is it she still holding him to the promise when she's strong and can oh so take care of herself? Can someone please help me understand this?

Don't worry, man. We're not talking about you--you're not a rabid Cloud/Tifa supporter. :D

Actually, I believe that Cloud and Tifa CAN work... it their history had not been so... screwed up.

They weren't childhood friends, Cloud grew up friendless and alone, his only friend died protecting him, the girl whom he thought shared a history with played along until he literally went nuts when he realized that story and the identity he believed in was all a lie, the other girl he promised to protect her was killed while helping him to save the planet from Sephiroth. Though they DID save the world, it's no longer the same, and Cloud, having no closure to Aerith's death during the game, suffered depression while being physically sick himself.

Seriously. Cloud's life sucks.

I don't believe he and Tifa will cross the line, in light of his emotional scars that he's carrying, despite that by the end of the movie is healed. AC shows that Aerith was the one who helped him, and not Tifa (despite arguably being with her for the past two years). And that means a lot in that field, for me.

Hmmm...I am still shown as logged 0n...when I am not really there.

I agree for that part too, only because their history backed that up.

(Putting in my 2 cents) or a ramble.
Cloud and Tifa had many attempts to uplift where they left off or behind, but they seem to take a few harsher steps back, all because of Cloud, of course. Not doubting their relationship as a whole, but I really think they had all this time to really mend their reactions and actions together. They just had enough time to be greater than what they seem to appear to be. If they were supposed to have reached that level of natural happiness, (but not so sappy and perfect in that sense) and a sentiment of feeling "whole" and not a "part" of eachother, then Cloud would probably not behave like he did. Even though Tifa knows Cloud's partial past it doesn't mean she would know nor understand Cloud's growing emotions<<those she cannot detect. Otherwise, they still seem to be struggling for still many years.

Cloud and Tifa's past together is the biggest reason they really don't work as a couple.

For starters, they really have no fond memories of each other. Most of the time they've interacted in the past would bring up painful memories.

Second, Cloud and Tifa each already have a very firm view of what they think the other one is really like and in most cases, they're both completley wrong. This creates a huge problem in that they don't actually know each other that well, but they won't go though a getting to know you phase because they already think they know each other well.

The answer is no, Tifa doesn't make Cloud happy.
Forcing him to make a promise..it's so annoying and he doesn't remember it! I've seen that when Cloud and Aeris just met he laughed with her thing that I've never seen him do with Tifa.
I've never seen Cloud smiling at Tifa neither

Only for like two seconds. He can't bare to look at her any longer than that.

I'd like to point out that Cloud and Aerith are alike in a way. Their pasts and backgrounds are similar. Both grew up alone amongst other things. But at the same time, they grew up with different personalities that made them opposite. And since their personalities are so different, is what makes them great together. Aerith makes Cloud more happy than Tifa ever did, even back when they were children. Tifa is like Cloud in terms of personality as well; they both appear depressed. Aerith is more joyful despite her past and she is what Cloud needs in his life. She's more bubbly and outgoing and brought out Cloud's caring side.

AHAHAHAHAHAAHAH!!!

BWAHAHAHAH!!! :lmao: Its sad but true. :sweat:

The thing is, if Cloud was so happy with Tifa, why does he leave? Why does he avoid talking to her? I've never thought she makes him happy the way that Aerith does. Being around Tifa never seems to make Cloud uplifted- sometimes it seems to have quite the opposite effect. Even in that 'family' picture, Cloud is standing off to the side, not looking very happy while Tifa hugs Denzel and Marlene, the three of them smiling.

There's the scene in AC where Tifa is trying to talk to Cloud, trying to help him, but it doesn't do any good. Nothing she says seems to get through to him, and it only seems to make him more emo than usual. But then, not that much later, he has his encounter with Aerith and that brief visit made him worlds happier than he's ever been with Tifa. When he arrives back in Midgar for the battle, he says he feels 'lighter', and he even seems a bit more cheerful.

Does Tifa make Cloud happy? Maybe sometimes, but not in the way Aerith does.

If Tifa made Cloud happy, he'd not run around being emo all the time. That's the simplest way to put it. Emo and happy are mutually exclusive states. Emo people are not happy. Happy people are not emo. Nuff said.

She must make him happy in some degree. If he was so miserable with Tifa don't you think he would of left for good? But no, he chose to start anew with her (Barret & Marlene.) and later come back when he got over he's guilt trip.

But the thing is- it seems like she has to put more effort into making him happy, unlike Aerith. Proof? Just read Case of Tifa. It's always she who tries to keep their "family" from crumbling.

I would like to see their "family" life now that Cloud is more at peace. Because in CoT and in AC he just wasn't himself. I want to see those supposed "silly conversations" between Cloud and Tifa the writer mentioned but never provided an example of.

Sorry, Just can't imagine them getting "silly." Now, Cloud and Aerith, yes! Come on cross-dressing anyone?XD

Well.....actually I think Cloud did smile at Tifa several times. In CoT, he smiles at him when they try to start a "new life".....and he smile at the all gang(includes Tifa) in the end of AC..... BUT, my idea that supports this thread is not about whether Cloud smiles at Tifa or not...I think their relationship won't go well due to the BASIC reason that usually breaks a couple up---their personality.

Like all great analysis you've mentioned above, they share a kind of similarity: they both hide deep emotion in front of each other. That's very fatal when it comes to love relationship...

1.Cloud does not know Tifa that well:
It's funny when in CoT, Cloud used to cheer Tifa by saying "I'll always remind you the way you are", but we all know that Tifa is not what Cloud thinks she is. Cloud used to do what he wants to do behind Tifa's back(CoT). Doesn't he know that would make her sad?

2.Cloud's concern for Tifa:
We all know that Cloud is a kind of guy who treats faithfully to firends by his own way. I think he awares what Tifa feels for him long ago in the game (at the Highwind, he even offers his shoulder for her to rest0_o). Howerver, it's pretty clear that he's not gonna reach back, or they'll have no prob being lovers after the game. He's afraid to hurt Tifa's feeling yet doesn't prepare to make out with her for that reason . That's why he keeps silent to Tifa when it comes to deep emotion. In the end of the novella, after Cloud mentions Aerith, he "looks away" and even says "I'm sorry" while Tifa says"You're hiding"...For me, Cloud is not such a cuel/direct guy saying"I'm sorry Tifa, I don't think anything gonna happen between us" to Tifa. Yet, on the contrary, his tender cautiousness is what hurts her most.

3.Tifa's locked heart:
Well, proof about her failing to reach Cloud are beautifully illustrated on all clever Cleriths here. I'm no different. But I simply want to emphasize that most Clotis does not consider this LT from Tifa's side . Oh, and I'm so sick of hearing their so-called strong evidence---CXT's family with D,M. I mean, come on! stop playing family card and purposedly erasing Barret out of the picture! Funny thing is that if they insist in family stuff they'll kill the possibility of lovers here too. HAHAHAHA~


That's all IMO, I always wanna discuss CXT without involving our Aerith, cuz I do think if there's no Aerith, they're not gonna be a good couple anyway... :P
Sorry if there's nothing new in my post~


PS: to Anti-R

This line cracks me out..so damn true!! HAHA~

I think that Tifa makes Cloud very happy. And yes, Cloud smiles at her in many, MANY occasions. It's obvious that Cloud cares about her, and that Tifa's words encourage him.
Here's a little VII quote that Cloud says to Tifa:
"Thank you everyone... especially you, Tifa. You've been so kind... I don't know what to say..."

This shows that Tifa makes him EXTREMELY happy, especially when he can see that she is proud of him.

Tifa and Aeris both made Cloud happy. Just, in different ways.

I think Tifa makes Cloud happy to a certain extent. But, since she doesn't understand the complexities of his heart, she cannot fully grasp what Cloud needs (hence the nagging scenes in AC, where she vents her frustrations at him).

The only time I remember is at the end of AC where Cloud is smiling at all of his friends (not just Tifa). And I remember him smiling directly at Tifa once in CoT. Enlighten me where these other "many many" smiles took place because I honestly cannot think of any other times. :unsure:

Twice in AC, that I count. If you count him smiling at all of his friends, that's just fine. But I think Cloud and Tifa shared a smile of their own, and then one that included every-one. Sometime during that spiffy motorcycle scene, Cloud sort of smiles, but I guess that one doesn't really count. And then, COT like you mentioned and finally,
Last Order. :]

I guess four smiles isn't "MANY, MANY", lol. I suppose I exaggerated a bit.

But what I am willing to admit, is that the smile Cloud gave Aeris is a smile that he has given no other in his life. Not even Zack, who made Cloud smile more than both girls put together.

No, she doesn't, IMO. If Tifa made Cloud happy, he would be with her right now. That's one of the reasons why I don't support CloTi. If Tifa made Cloud happy, and Cloud wanted a romantic relationship with her, he would have gotten together with her at some point. A perfect time to do this would have been in CoT, where I saw no romance at all from Cloud to Tifa, or AC, which is supposedly the end of Cloud's story. But no, he's still single at the end.

I don't actually think they would work well together in a romantic relationship, their personalities just don't seem compatible.

Ah, well that explains something. I don't. Cloud looked up at Tifa, looking a little embarrassed, she smiled at him, and he looks down at the children, his expression doesn't even change.

And I don't consider LO canon. There were too many inconsistancies with FFVII. I call it retarded, myself lol. But that's just me. :lol:

Cloud's expression doesn't change one bit. Tifa smiled at Cloud and that expression received focus from the creators because she was giving Cloud a beautiful "I knew you could do it!" smile. But did Cloud's expression back to Tifa receive any special focus? No. Cloud is smiling at all of his friends, Tifa's smile is shown, the camera pans back to Cloud who still has the exact same expression on his face, and Cloud immediately turns away to smile at the children. And he was smiling just at Tifa when? When, exactly, did Cloud's expression to Tifa receive some sort of special focus? I saw nothing of the sort, sorry to say. The creators sure haven't mentioned it either:

From Reunion Files:

"When Cloud regained consciousness, he found himself in the Church. He saw the familiar faces of his friends and the orphans watching over him, and a smile slowly spread across his face. Aerith and Zack stand beyond the door, watching over them. At last, Cloud is no longer alone."

"...Then Cloud finally fights with Sephiroth, the kids gather around him by the water, he smiles, and Aerith smiles and watches them from a distance..." (Nomura)

While Cloud's expression didn't change a bit when Tifa smiled at him, Cloud's expression changed into his most wondrous yet the moment Aerith appeared on screen. Tifa completely faded into the background the moment Cloud spotted Aerith and his attention was focused totally on her.

Considering that he is smiling at Denzel? I should certainly hope that doesn't count as him smiling at Tifa. :lol:

Agreed. Though I wonder how much Cloud smiling at Tifa in the past before he even met Aerith counts when regarding the LT.

I agree 100%. ^_^

:lmao: I guess it is canon to the point that S-E allowed its release. But, as we all know, Madhouse (the animation company) was allowed "creative license" with the scenes, which ended up going against what we have been shown previously. So, I am not sure I am all that interested in considering its contents "proof", especially when said "proof" all happened before Cloud ever met Aerith and started his wheel of destiny spinning.

Tifa can't make Cloud happy. She can't even make him smile. I think this quote speaks for itself.

@Kuraudo- Some-one can still make you happy and you can still not be in love with them. Are you saying that Tifa makes Cloud completely miserable? If that were so, why would he even hang around her, care about her, thank her, and listen to her advice? I think that Tifa makes Cloud very happy, but it doesn't mean that just because she makes him happy, that they make the perfect pair.
Believe me, I've read Case of Tifa and they didn't have perfect communication skills with one another... but even though they had some conflicts, they rose above those and in the end, were happy. As friends, as you may prefer. ^^

I'm not sure why then, that the camera would zoom in on Tifa, then on Cloud, and then he turns to look at all of the children. True, his expression doesn't change, by why not zoom in on the rest of the party? Why was it focused just on Tifa? I think the smile meant something sort of an "Everything is okay" thing. Or a "Good job Cloud, you did it" type.

I don't agree that Cloud's smile to Aeris was one of love necessarily, but it's one that was different than any other smile Cloud has given to any-one. And I am also one of those people who believe Cloud was smiling at Zack as well.
However, my Cleris friend pointed out to me that in the song "Clouds Smile", Aeris's theme is mixed into it. I nod my head to that, because it shows Clouds Smile was definitely focused on Aeris most of all.

@FF_G-
Now, I do agree with you more since you posted this. :] Thank you. I kind of mentioned that above, that Tifa's smiled was meant to be shown as an "You're alright, you did it" sort of thing.
And it is true, every ounce of Cloud's focus moves to Aeris. But I believe that's because she was important in his life, and when was the last time his actually laid eyes on her? Her death, correct? To her smiling back at him along with Zack is a HUGE thing. The last time he saw the both of them, they were dying right in front of him. This is the way I see things... If some-one else close to Cloud had died, romantically involved with him or not, seeing them again after he thought he had failed them would draw all of his attention towards them, obviously.
Even though I believe this, I still think that Cloud and Aeris did in fact, share an important smile hence his theme song.

He was smiling at Denzel? Oops. I feel a bit stupid. xD

Hmm, I wonder as well.

But you didn't ask for "proof" you asked in what instances Cloud smiled at Tifa. :] I'm not trying to prove anything Cloti here, folks. ;] I'm not supposed to do that here, anyway. xD

@ AngelWing Aeris:
I think that's a bit harsh. D:
In what instances did Aeris make Cloud smile? Twice that I can think of. And, who's to say Cloud wasn't smiling a lot more during FFVII towards both girls? The graphics are so insanely crappy, that we don't know for sure. I don't think it should matter who made Cloud smile the most. xD What matters most, are the words he exchanges and the actions he makes.

Aeris and Cloud share a smile that is very earth shattering. I think that does make all of Cloud and Tifa's said smiles seem a bit insignificant, but they are still important. They still show that Cloud cares for Tifa and that she can make him happy, even if it is just as friends.

This is how I see Cloud's happiness.

Modifying the Fenrir > Tifa

I have yet to see a moment that Cloud and Tifa solely share that makes me feel that she makes him happy.

Well, not really, he did see her in the Bahamut scene. ^_^ Part of his expression was shock and wonder, I agree. But, that smile... that just screams adoration to me. *Adjusts pink-tinted glasses* But that's just the ClAeris in me. :lol:

And yet Cloud's eyes never moved from one spot- Aerith. Zack was there, too. Why didn't the scene focus more on Cloud staring at them both than Cloud just staring at Aerith.

Aerith moves past Zack, who waves at Cloud and then follows Aerith through the doorway. What is interesting about this scene is how much brighter and more colorful Aerith was than Zack. They were standing in the same light and yet Aerith was much more vibrant. Also, even though Aerith led the way through the door and Zack followed behind, he was the one to disappear first. Aerith's image lingered much longer. I believe this tactic was used to show the object of Cloud's focus was Aerith.

Actually, it was confirmed in the 10th Anniversary Ultimania that the only time Cloud smiled and laughed in FFVII was because of Aerith. And the only time we see Cloud smiling in AC was when he was smiling at the orphans and his friends and... when he is smiling at Aerith.

Actually, the camera didn't zoom in on Cloud at all. If you look at Cloud before and after the zoom in on Tifa, it is the exact same shot.

I hate to play Devil's Advocate here, but the creators have stated that Cloud was happy at Seventh Heaven. One of the reasons he left is because he was afraid of losing that happiness, another reason is the fact that he couldn't forgive himself for Aerith's death, and another reason is because of his Geostigma.

I didn't mean she can't make him happy as a friend but as a girlfriend. :)

Oh yeah, I forgot about that scene, FF_G! That scene is actually a favorite Cleris moment of mine. :] How you can see Aeris in the gleam of his eye, and then their hands coming together like they almost did in FFVII. I thought it was so symbolic and sweet. <3 I liked that scene moar than the smile. xD
The whole smile thing just has so much controversy. And you know, I ask myself "why" too. Why didn't they focus some more on Zack? :/ Cloud obviously was upset due to his best friends death, as well. Definitely shown in Crisis Core, and when Cloud says "I said I'd live both our lives..." etc. They should've done more with Zack! *Is so ticked that they didn't*

Well, I can't argue with you there, about with the Ultimania. I haven't looked much into that, so I can't pose really, a defense. Not that I would try to anyway, since it would probably be for a pairing I can't mention. xDD
Well, then. For now I must admit that the fact that Aeris was able to make Cloud laugh and smile in VII, is a very big plus for Cleris indeed. :]

*ahem*
I'm glad that you see that Tifa can make Cloud happy at least, as a friend. :] It's not like she makes him miserable. xD

Lol. Apparently, Kuraudo needs to start wording her opinions better.^^ I was talking about the fact that Tifa wouldn't make Cloud happy in a romantic relationship. Honestly, they just don't understand eachother enough. The way Cloud's quiet attitude annoys Tifa in CoT makes me believe they just wouldn't work. And if it were going to happen, it already would’ve.

And no, I don't believe Tifa makes Cloud completely miserable. If that were the case, then he wouldn't have moved back in with her by the time Dirge of Cerberus rolls around. I think Tifa makes Cloud happy about as much as his other friends do, and maybe more, as Cloud is obviously closest to Tifa out of all the other Avalanche members. But she is just that: one of his friends. They make each other happy to a certain degree, like the way friends do, but, when thinking about a relationship beyond friendship, they just don’t understand each other enough.

The most emotion I saw from Cloud during the entire movie was when he saw Aerith in that scene. I love his expression there, filled with awe and longing. But, alas, I am a Clerith too.

I love Cloud and Zack's relationship. So Sweet. I do think that Cloud felt guilty for Zack's death and missed him as well, which is why the "I said I'd live out both our lives" scene was included, to give Zack some spotlight. But the main focus of the movie was Cloud's guilt over Aerith's death, not Zack's. She was the main reason why Cloud felt so guilty and alone, which, if you look at it like a Clerith, is because she was much more important to him. That's why Cloud and Aerith got more focus in the movie than Cloud and Zack.

But at least they didn't leave Zack out completely unlike Red XIII.

Of course. I'd hate for Cloud to have to live somewhere he wasn't happy. It's just the rabids who try to twist it into "Tifa's love is all Cloud needs to be happy." :rolleyes:

As for what made him happy while living at the Seventh Heaven? The reason doesn't have to be all Tifa. I'm sure having Marlene around made Cloud happy. And Denzel, whom Cloud thought was brought to him by Aerith. Or just the fact that he had a family and didn't have to be alone. Tifa said in AC that she knows how Cloud hated being alone.

Yep. Cloud actually started to distance himself in CoT until Denzel came along. After that, Cloud started making an effort to spend more time at Seventh Heaven. I think Cloud became attached to Denzel rather quickly and part of that reason was because he believed Aerith brought Denzel to him. That should be enough to prove to anyone that it isn't simply Tifa that draws Cloud to Seventh Heaven, but all three of them (and Barret, when he's around). ^_^ Cloud loves them all, that is obvious.

Yeah, I love how she said, "Sure, you may never answer your phone, but I don't see you throwing it away either!" :lol:

@Kuraudo- Ah, thanks. The way you said it... made it seem otherwise. Thanks for clearing that up. :]
If not love, I believe Cloud and Tifa like you said, have more than a friendship. It's a more than friends, less than a lover sort of thing, you know? Best friends, perhaps, if you wll. xD

@FF_G-
I was actually going to mention that! Looks like you beat me to it, lol. I re-read Case Of Tifa last night, and I always thought at the end it was Tifa who made Cloud smile. But after re-reading it, I see that when Tifa suggests the fact that Aeris brought Dezel to them, is when Cloud gets happy. He's glad that Tifa agrees that Denzel was sent by Aeris, and of course, that a part of Aeris in another sense, is with him.

That's one of my favorite quotes by her! :D

Judging from the various scenes in the compilation, no, Tifa can't make Cloud happy. I believe she can't make him smile, even. Tifa wants Cloud to be someone he isn't. She wanted Cloud to be her knight in shining armor... First Class SOLDIER Cloud. Tifa basically wanted Cloud, but Cloud didn't want her. It was getting more obvious in each scene, as Cloud's almost always trying to inch away from Tifa when she's getting closer. Aeris, on the other hand, made Cloud laugh, smile and be happy. Obviously, she's the one Cloud liked and loved, and he almost got close to telling her that he loved her. But what about Tifa? Did Tifa make Cloud laugh, smile and be happy? Did she even fuel Cloud's desire to actually beat Sephiroth? Did Cloud tell her that he'll be there for her? I don't think so... At Gold Saucer, Aeris said that she was searching for him, a pretty good indication that she wanted to see him, that she loved him and cared for him. Cloud even asked her if she was feeling that she's in the Promised Land, and she replied positively, so we can infer that she's in the Promised Land because of two reasons: she was feeling good that she's gonna save the world and the she's with Cloud, so she's in the Promised Land.
Of course Cloud was miserable when Zack died, but I think he became more miserable when Aeris died. His whole system was getting down, and he felt extremly guilty and helpless that he stood there watching as Aeris got stabbed by Sephiroth.
So, when he saw Aeris again and she assured her that he wasn't alone, he smiled and felt better, and therefore, happier.

To be blunt, I see Tifa as a sort of mother figure for Cloud. That's a good way to describe the relationship they have. Considering CoT confirmed that Tifa's feelings for Cloud are more like that of a mother (not to mention she nags him like one :ph34r:).

Tifa is the mother, Barret the father, Cloud the rebellious older brother, Denzel and Marlene are the younger siblings. That sounds about right.

Oh, and I have to say: this quote= WIN. I'm gonna go ahead and say that this is how I feel in a nutshell....

I just wanted to point a little something out, if that's okay. You're saying... Tifa can't make Cloud happy at all, is that right? If that's so, then FF_G's statement with provided proof, is being ignored by you, is that so? O_O
Tifa wanted Cloud to be the "knight in shining armor" as a kid, and when they met again after so long. As time went on, the promise and her ideals for Cloud, became less important. It was quite clear that she loved Cloud for him, and only wanted to make the truth known to him, and help him find his true feelings/himself. She apologized for the things in the past. Cloud thanks Tifa for being so kind to him. And, about Tifa not fueling Cloud to beat Sephiroth, what about when he says:
"My hometown... Mom.... Tifa... Give them back to me!"
What about when Cloud says in AC,
"There's not a thing I don't treasure".
He's happy with Tifa and his family, and I think that is quite apparent.
Cloud DID tell her that he'd be there for her.
1. The promise.
2. In Case of Tifa when he tells Tifa he'd remind her of her true feelings. She asks, "Will you really?" Cloud blushes and says "Probably."
3.The fact that Cloud was determined to impress Tifa with such a passion.
4.Thanking Tifa.
5.Saving Tifa.

All of these things, he would do for a very good friend. If Tifa didn't make him happy, I don't think he would have done any of those things. He wouldn't have told Tifa some of the feelings he kept inside before. He wouldn't have stayed with her. He wouldn't have had the desire to help her, to save her, to watch over the children.

In conclusion, I don't think Aeris or Tifa makes Cloud HAPPIER, but rather, that Aeris and Tifa both make Cloud happy. Their safety as well as his friends safety, is important to him. Not just Aeris's.

Cloud loved/had a crush on Tifa in the past. No one denies that, but their is more to the story that that:

This quote speaks for itself. Cloud had a crush on Tifa but she rejected him. That's doesn't sound like making him happy.

Tifa is Cloud's best friend. Of course he treasures their friendship. But notice the pattern of people he thinks of when he thinks he will die: Aerith, (3 times) Zack, Tifa, Marlene, Denzel, and lastly Tifa, Marlene & Denzel.

This speaks for itself.

I'm hesistant to believe that because of these quotes from AC:

The Promise: (left out a bit at the beginning)

Tifa "Isn't it hard to join SOLDIER?"
Cloud
"...I probably wont be able to come back to this town for a
while."
(Tifa makes a motion.)
Cloud
"...huh?"
Tifa
"Will you be in the newspapers if you do well?"
Cloud
"I'll try."
Tifa
"Hey, why don't we make a promise?"
"Umm, if you get really famous and I'm ever in a bind....."
"You come save me, all right?"
Cloud
"What?"
Tifa
"Whenever I"m in trouble, my hero will come and rescue me."
"I want to at least experience that once."
Cloud
"What?"
Tifa
"Come on--! Promise me----!"
Cloud
"All right.... I promise."

This also speaks for itself. Cloud forget about the promise over the years and admitted that he wasn't a hero thus couldn't keep it. Plus Tifa only forced the promise on Cloud after he suggests that he could be famous.

Cloud's incompability with Tifa is proven in these quotes:

He loved her in the past that doesn't mean his feelings are still true.

Cloud would save anyone in trouble if possible. Tifa doesn't make Cloud happy as a lover, but she's a great friend as the evidence proves.

I dont think Tifa makes Cloud happy in a romantic way, but as a friend she does try <3 I mean, like most people have already stated, COT shows that Cloud and Tifa argue quite alot and tifa tends to snap when she doesn't hear the words she wanted to hear from Cloud.

But about the promise scene, there is a scan of CC somewhere in this forum that said Tifa made Cloud promise her that he will come and save her whenever she was in trouble

EDIT Here is the scan <3 http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh189/M...VIICC5small.jpg