The discussion on the "Least Favorite Pairings" thread inspired this. I checked and I saw he doesn't have a club and he so deserves one. The title "Mind Over Matter" reflects on the fact that in spite of being far from attractive Hojo is blessed with what I certainly would call a brilliant mind.

Members
NekoDono
Zelda
The Collection
Lynn
Hyper-Ballad
aerithlove527
Luna-Nayru
Materia Thief
AerithGainsborough
Kaldea
Fenrir_in_Flowers

Bannerz
This one is by Luna-Nayru


Visit the Hojo Photobucket to see all the pictures we have gathered!

Hojo Music Video by Fenrir_in_Flowers

OH MAN. Ilu. Is there a club for Lu, as well?

Anyway, joining. Awesome. :D

I'll join too!

*revives*

Because even Hojo deserves love, even if he's perpetually old in every fugging FFVII Compilation game SRSLY SE HOWS ABOUT SOME PROPERLY AGED CHARACTERS FOR ONCE? and doesn't get as many fanarts as teh prettyboi Turk. :P

(And I can't believe I didn't join this! Pfffthb me.)

Any recs for Hojo fanfiction? I used to read GlassShard's stuff religiously (damn talented people who can write AND draw well!), then I fell outta the FFVII loop and haven't really looked around since.

GlassShard's website: http://www.casualvillain.com.
I can't seem to find her writings on that page anymore, though. :(

Luckily, Google is your friend, so I managed to dig up Crazy.

Yum. Hojo-brand madness. :D

Hooray!! My fellow Hojo fangirl is here! *loves up Lynn* The link to the new photobucket is on my signature. I'm always accepting new pics. (Nothing anti-Hojo or pro-Vincrecia... *looks at Lute*)

I'm presently working on a Hocrecia fan fiction. I'll post it here when it is finished and then I'll put it on FF.net. Also I'm compiling a list of Hojo fan fics. When I finish it I'll put it up here and more added on to it is always appreciated! -insert Hojo x Lucrecia smiley here-

Personality > Looks

Once I get the list up feel free to enjoy it!

Yay! A club dedicated one of my favourite FFVII characters! :woot:

Can I take a chance to promote my Jenova Project fanclub, though? *shameless self-promotion*

About a year or two ago, I became seriously fascinated by the Jenova Project subplot and especially the HojoxLucreciaxVincent triangle, and the whole thing turned me into a twisted Hojo fangirl as well as one of the few (what's the number? ten? eleven?) HojoxLucrecia fans out there. :P

I just find him to be a really compelling character as well as a chilling villain. And I have to say, I was really disappointed with how DoC treated his character and the triangle and - in my opinion - peddled to the Vincent/Lucrecia fans at the expense of canon and what we were shown of the relationships in FFVII. I still hold that in FFVII, all the evidence we're given suggests that Lucrecia loved Hojo (I pretty much sum-up my opinion on all that drama in this thread, if anyone's interested) and that this fact was another victim of the Unstoppable Recton Engine otherwise known as the Compilation.

Arrgh, too much ranting! Anyways, Hojo is a brilliant character and also a sadly under-appreciated one. His madness, weirdness and creepiness are all very thought-provoking stuff.

Ohh, if you're compiling a list of Hojo-fics, may I donate mine? Here are the links. ^_^

Terra Incognita. Very long and strange. All my first fanfics about anyone are usually this long and poorly-structured, it's like I have to channel a character before I can actually write them well...

Primary. My second Hojo-fic. Much shorter, simpler and (imho) better. But no less twisted - a Hojo-'fic's gotta have the twisted and off-putting stuff in spades, lol.

Forty Days of One-Night Stands. A collection of Hojo/Lucrecia drabbles, some nice and others not-so-nice. This 'fic is my baby, I love and treasure it (and plan to update it once I'm done with the 100 Cleris themes!). If you review this, I will build a shrine to you and sacrifice small animals to it once a week. ^_^

In thanks for paying attention to my stories (and in tribute to this awesome club) here are some fun goodies (sadly, none were made by me).

Happy Hojo Fun Time! A brilliant and insightful look inside Hojo's mind. :lol:

Hojo Dances to "My Humps"! Strange, but true.

Hojo and Lucrecia: Pinky and the Brain. Pretty self-explanatory, this one. ^_^

Hojo's Guide to Scoring Hot Final Fantasy Babes, Part 1. He wins Lucrecia, and has all those Costa del Sol fangirls, so I guess the man would know a thing or two. Scorpius' FFVII vids are all hilarious, but this is just fantastic. You can tell she's a Hojo-fan... *evil*

Hojo's Guide to Scoring Hot Final Fantasy Babes, Part 2. The guys put Hojo's advice into practice. The Vincent/Lucrecia scene is priceless.

The Hojo/Lucrecia Date Scene. Hojo and Lu go on a date at the Gold Saucer!

*droolz and savez everything you linked* Thanks for joining! <33333 Did you check out our photobucket? (I'm an advertising whore too! XD )

I sure did! :yes:

I don't have much time to look round it now, but it's saved on my faves list for the time being. I'm also sure that I have a few screencaps and fanarts not on your PB album, so I'll give you the links tomorrow. ^_^

I LOVED HOJO'S GUIDE! Of course, he would be the perfect teacher. It's not his fault his students completely phailed to put his genius to good use. :lmao:

And the date was awesome. Scorpicus is awesome. <3

HB is psychic! :woot:

Based on certain reactions to DC, I also believe that the VxLxH triangle was retconned to hell. I don't think I would have minded a reciprocal Vincent-Lucrecia relationship (I look at it like Zeris in CC--SE feels it's more dramatic/meaningful if the leading male and female have a deeper love going on, and so they do it, despite whatever the Original Game might have portrayed). But only if the Hojo-Lucrecia one was dealt with fairly.

But I get the impression that SE prefers keeping Hojo a one-dimensional, villainous, creepy madman who's just there to experiment on young men. <_<

Loved your posts on the subject, HB, and the Hojo quotes you dug up-- betcha lots of people (SE included :P) probably don't even remember them! Poor Hojo will forever be That Guy Who Mated Aerith With Catdog Red. (And you write Hojo fics?! :glomp: )

w00t, we are Hocrecias, rawr! :huggle: I saw your link, thank you for setting it up! Sadly, I don't think I have any new Hojo stuff that isn't already on the album, but I'll keep an eye out from now on.

Ahem-- now to wax lyrical on his almighty Hojoness:

Perhaps because of his position as a scientist, I view Hojo as amoral, not evil. He followed his own path, did what he must to reach his goals, with no loyalty to anyone but his research (and he doesn't even bother to hide it-- I think he's the only Shinra employee who gives Rufus lip even though his funding could be pulled by one flick of that strawberry-blond hair). He's kinda Turk-like in that way (hmm, Hojo as a former Turk...), except without the cool theme song, good looks or pro-Rufusness.

I think he loved Lucrecia, but perhaps without that overpowering, idolising strength that Vincent did; and that's why he can talk about her frankly, whereas Vincent treats her name with reverence, and it seems like Hojo loved her less.

On the other hand, I have the idea that he loved Jenova and considered her Sephiroth's true mother. Lucrecia would have simply been the carrier of the child, and Hojo needn't have any emotional attachment to her. (So any argument that Hojo is evil because he didn't return Lucrecia's love would be null, because, well, ain't his fault the woman falls for him. He's just THAT HAWT. :P)

But anyway-- 99% of my time, I think he did love Lucrecia, based on all the reasons HB cited. (And I think he might've loved Sephiroth too; in his mind, he didn't think he was turning his son into a monster, but a superhuman, a God among men. Eat your Jenova!brocolli, Sephy, it's good for you!) I think he loved her mind more than her body, because despite what we saw in DC, I like to imagine Lucrecia as looking a bit nerdy/dorky/UglyBetty. I think the madness that gripped him was not caused by Lucrecia potentially loving Vincent, but was fed by it. And I think his life's been kinda sad, because Gast was always above him, and the academic world can be brutal, and even Sephiroth preferred Gast, and in the end all he really had was his research and Jenova whispering sweet lies in his mind.

*diez in the Hojo Love* And I always thought I was alone in thinking Hojo loved Lu! Woot! My Hocrecia story is almost ready. I did no Vincent bashing either! Woo hoo!

I'm still drawing more Hojo art on the side of the requests I'm working on. I'll just keep it up and add them to the PB. (There are some there already! :D )

When I finish my fan fic I'll write an analysis/theory essay for why I believe Hojo loved Lu. (I'll have citation and everything!) And honestly, DoC made me think Lu didn't love Vincent even more so!!

Hi guys! I come bearing gifts! :gift:

The whole piece is fab, but Hojo's panel made me LOL.

Hooray for true love!

Vincent fans, look away.

Isosceles Iscariot - the triangle of betrayal.

Share ze girl?

I swear I have a botched passport photo that looks something like this...

Lucrecia fails Shinra's sanity test.

Both twisted and full of "aww"...

PWNED!

PSYCHO HOJO!!!

Lucrecia has a problem...

Faces from the past.

Poor Sephiroth.

Lucrecia gets loved-up!

No escape for Gast and Ifalna.

"She and I are both scientists!"

Who is the monster?

The kiss.

1st part of an adorable translated doujin - Vincent and Lucrecia talk about romance.

Part 2 - How does Lucrecia like her men?

Part 3 - Hojo makes his move.

The conclusion - what persuades Lucrecia to commit?

Profile of Hojo.

Heretic Hojo - not a pretty sight...

Vincent strapped on a table. Not as sexy as it sounds (almost).

Together at the end of the world (I LOVE this one!)

Death's Godson.

It'll heal what ails ya, Lucrecia... ;)

Hojo and Lucrecia look comfy and happy!

Hojo is cute.

Hojo is not-so-cute...

A Madman's Success.

The relationship chart from the original Ultimania (with the husband/wife symbol connecting Hojo and Lucrecia, and an "unrequited love" symbol connecting Vincent and Lucrecia).

Same page, translated to English.

I'll come back with some 'fic recommendations later too. ^_^

I might as well come out and say it - I'm a total Hojo/Lucrecia 'shipper too. I never had anything against V/L until Dirge of Cerberus ruined it for me but H/L was totally canon in FFVII, made sense, and is a damn interesting relationship. I get all my fluffy fixes from Cleris but Hojo/Lucrecia is a very different kind of romance. It's twisted, strange and wrong and that's why I like it so much.

I guess that's what he'd call natural selection, eehehehe. Not every guy has DNA good enough to produce Sephiroth (and, by extension, the SHM) after all...

Oooh... *in ur physics, bending ur spoons*

To be honest, I was pretty much expecting things to get reworked and the V/L romance to get pumped up a bit (it's only natural in a game starring them), though just not to THAT extent.

EXACTLY. Everything about this subplot was very ambiguous in the original game and it's such a shame that SE chose not to keep that up and allow the flashbacks to show something more interesting and problematic rather than one interpretation to rule them, etc.

Like I said, I was totally expecting the Vincent/Lucrecia romance to be more apparent than it was in FFVII (SE love their tragic romances, after all) because it's a tried-and-true method of involving the audience in the story on an emotional level and because of the fan-demands. Vincent is sexy and most people see him as an extremely romantic character, and on top of that Vincent/Lucrecia is a very popular pairing. (Yuffie/Vincent and Cid/Vincent also got their fair share of nods too). So it was bound to go that way, and I didn't mind that at all, but I hated that it had to be at the expense of the H/L relationship and both Hojo and Lucrecia's characterizations.

If anything, DoC shows me how serious H/L was in the original game because SE had to think up the most ridiculous rationalization of Lucrecia's rejection. In the original game, Vincent definitely looks like he's offering her a box or generally behaving in a romantic way. Lucrecia runs off looking upset, and later we see her kissing Hojo. I've seen loads of fans (before DoC's release) try to offer explanations for her actions but none of them rang true. For me it's just a case of applying Occham's Razor and the simplest explanation being the correct one. She runs away from Vincent and kisses Hojo in public? To me, the most likely explanation for that is that she loves Hojo and not Vincent, simple as that. Vincent even says that she's happy! Guh! *facepalm*

Of course in DoC we get Grimoire aka Lucrecia's cozy little excuse. It just frustrates me that rather than getting a deep exploration of Lucrecia's personality, feelings and motivations (and what is it about both relationships that appeal to her), we get a convenient excuse for all her actions (she wuz soo gilti an sad aboot killen Vincey-kun's daddeh so she pooshed him awai!). It's just too easy, and I think her character suffers for it. It's such a cop-out. It disappoints me that rather than explain Lucrecia's choice by developing Hojo's character (and there's plenty of hints for how to go with that in the original game) and showing why she cared for him, the whole relationship is retconned as being all about Vincent and all down to Lucrecia's complicated feelings towards Vincent and his father. Ugh. Not to mention how Vincent's profound realization that "Lucrecia chose [Hojo] to protect him" now makes no sense at all.

And the changes to Lucrecia's character were very disappointing. Seeing as the V/L romance was never really there in the original game (not a reciprocated love, anyway) forcing that romance and making her go ahead with all her decisions whilst being in love with Vincent, and finding elaborate excuses for her behaviour (other than the dreaded "maybe she loves Hojo" reason, of course) makes her seem really foolish, fickle, hypocritical, irrational and pathetic. Not to mention much less sympathetic and interesting than her original self. By taking away her responsibility and culpability, the writers basically took away all her decision-making ability and rationality. In FFVII she never apologises once to Vincent, whereas in DoC it's pretty much all she can do. In FFVII, all she cares about is Sephiroth, but in DoC it's all about Vincent. She's a much weaker character in the newer game and much more of a victim, wheras in the original she took full responsibility for her actions without pitying herself.

And if she was only in a relationship with Hojo in order to push Vincent away why the hell did she go so far as marry him? Start a life with someone just to keep someone else at a distance? That's so irrational. Being involved with someone in order to stay clear of someone else is one thing, but marrying someone for that reason is just overkill and makes no sense at all. Her behaviour in DoC just doesn't add up and you can't relate to her decisions or thought-process at all. More than irrational, she seems really stupid at times considering the choices she made and the flimsy reasons behind them.

One of my favourite arguments for H/L back in the day used to be something along the lines of "Lucrecia would have to be taking stupid pills daily if she married Hojo, had his baby and let him experiment on her and her unborn child with something as unstable and unkown as Jenova if Hojo was clearly a sadistic maniac with no regard for human life". It looks like I was wrong and despite being having a brilliant logical mind when it comes to science, Lucrecia has no common-sense at all and totally trusted DoC's eeeeeeeeeevil and batshit crazy Hojo with her health, safety and unborn baby. Anyone can see that DoC-Hojo is a loon, and Lucrecia doesn't seem to really like him either, so her trust in him makes no sense at all (except that it advances the plot).

Again, it's all down to trying to find a complicated explanation (Lucrecia loved Vincent but married Hojo because...) rather than the simple one (Lucrecia loved Hojo so she married him and trusted him despite her uncertainties about the Project and lingering feelings for Vincent) and that just makes everything that happens after make much less sense. *sigh*

Seriously, I've seen many a fanfic where he's portrayed better. Not nicer or more sympathetic, just better, where there's a method to his madness.

In DoC, he's portrayed as about as insane here as he was up on the Mako cannon, which is plain wrong. In FFVII, we see him in what's clearly a downward spiral. He's weird and creepy when we first "meet" him, but nowhere close to dancing, laughing, "lemme just inject myself with Jenova cells and destroy Midgar just to help Sephiroth who by the way is my SON" insane like he is at the end of Disc 2. I think he clearly broke down towards the end of the Project (after whatever was supposed to have happened to Lucrecia, followed by Vincent confronting him) which led to all the unsanctioned experiments on Vincent and then afterwards he began to slowly lose what was left of his mind after Sephiroth "died" in Nibelheim and he began working on the clones and recreation attempts, etc. And all that leads up to him ending up beyond gone by the time the party confronts him at the Mako cannon.

And again, the original game states that Lucrecia wanted to protect him, so there must have been something about him that made her at least sympathise with him and feel for him, if not love him. But we don't even get shown that.

So there's a lot of interesting stuff to work with, but for some reason he's just a cardboard cut-out bad/crazy guy in DoC who's oh-so mean to Lucrecia and Vincent for some reason. He's more than one-dimensional in the original, but he's remembered as the stereotypical mad scientist and so that's how he's written afterwards, it seems.

What bugs me is that he's not even portrayed as manipulating Lucrecia into caring for him or believing he's worthy of her, or even bothers convincing her that the Project is all for the best. He's not even shown as that kind of evil, but instead as evil and insane in such a black-and-white way, and that's so much less than he was in the original game.

A lot of the scenes were re-written to make Hojo look worse/crazier too - in the original, when he argues with Vincent in front of Lucrecia he makes a valid point and something of a personal argument (we're the scientists, you're not, so it's none of your freaking business what we choose to do) whereas in the DoC version he comes off as pompus and unconcerned whilst the heated argument is between Lucrecia and Vincent instead. I don't mind revisiting and reinterpreting scenes in order to give them more depth, I was expecting as much from the start, but it's totally playing off to one side and erasing what made the situation so compelling in the first place.

Zelda used to have a brilliant quote in her ACF sig that summed the whole thing up. I need it so badly right now because it glows with TRUTH.

Thanks! God, I hope we're not the only ones who remember the teasing little bits of depth and insight we had into his character in the original game. That would be depressing.

At least we remember those interesting 'lil quotes, right? Any particular one you like? I'm interested in hearing how you guys interpret them.

Seriously, the only consolation I can take from the game is that at least the whole thing was told mostly from Vincent's perspective rather than as objectively as the original game. If it's his memories, then of course he'll be biased and Lucrecia will seem more saintly and Hojo more villainous and insane.

:glomp2:

Definitely. He's not out to do bad stuff - he's driven to learn and understand but to such an extent and with such intensity that he simply doesn't care about the human cost. If people end up being hurt by his research and hunger for knowledge, then that's life. His goal isn't evil for evil's sake, but it's very self-interested and he totally lacks in empathy. I think what interests him is an anti-social pusuit because he's clearly obsessed with recreating, mutating and changing living things as much as possible (and because he wants to be the best, so hardly a noble motive), so people are bound to be hurt by what he does, but there's certainly no pro-evil on his agenda so much as pro-learning.

Basically, I think if he hadn't been involved with Jenova, his fate could've been very different. He'd never have been nice or normal or even totally stable, but that particular area just fed his obsessions and sickness so much that it was bound to get out of control.

I know we're all in the minority here, but I agree. I think he loved her, but that it's not quite the same as what you or I would call love. I think he loved her as much as he was able to, considering his state of mind. Loved her in a strange and "abnormal" way, not the conventional way Vincent does (I think her feelings for him must have been along similar lines, as I don't think that Lucrecia is totally sane herself).

He kissed her, married her, had a child with her (and FFVII says that this is what pushed the Project to the next level, not that the idea is what encouraged them to have a child), etc. I can't see him doing that if he didn't feel anything for her. And that Cloud-esque breakdown whilst confronting Vincent is quite telling, as is the fact that he'd do something so brutal to a love-rival.

The way I see it is that whatever he felt for her, it was only there while she "lived". Once she was gone, he lost interest. He seemed very pragmatic in that way, wheras Vincent being more emotional and healthy in that sense, was able to mourn her sincerely. Add to Vincent's grief years of pain, imprisonment and guilt, and he builds up Lucrecia into this idol. I think Hojo, in contrast, would do his best to forget her.

I can see this too, but more as a symptom of him distancing himself and of his insanity and growing obsession with Jenova. It's only when he's at his most insane that he admits he's Sephiroth's father, so I think he also considered Jenova to be Sephiroth's parent at his own expense as well as Lucrecia's. So it doesn't exactly invalidate whatever he may have felt for her at the time.

:lmao: Well, it would be quite evil to seduce and marry a girl and then trick her into taking part in a dangerous experiment anyway, but if he picked her out because she was in love with him, then he's just a MEANY.

Oh, I definitely think he loved Sephiroth. I think that's actually much more apparent than his feelings for Lucrecia. But again, it's not an affection that expresses itself in a normal way. And you're 100% right, Lynn - in his mind he was creating a perfect being, not conducting inhuman experiments on his own son. Sephiroth was pretty much his life's work, as much an obsession as Jenova was, and that's how he showed his "love". He even conceded that Sephiroth had gone beyond the powers of science, which must've been a pretty big deal, and he was also aware of Sephiroth's opinion of him. The way I see it is that whatever he felt, he was always distant and detached, so he repressed and twisted it and expressed it only through "perfecting" Sephiroth, and then it all poured out in a crazed and ugly way at Midgar when he went up to the Mako cannon.

Again, I totally agree. I see a lot of 'fic where Hojo's madness is explained by Lucrecia falling for Vincent but I can't buy that. I think Hojo certainly envied and hated Vincent, but he also felt that way about Gast too. Or really anyone who happened to be "better" than he was. Hojo was definitely jealous of Vincent (the experiments on him definitely smack of a lot of bitterness from Hojo), but - like you put it - it wasn't the origin of his madness, but simply another element that fed and strengthened it. The whole Project seems to have been marked by a lot of passionate feelings, "love" for Lucrecia, jealousy towards Vincent, obsession over Jenova...no wonder he snapped towards the end of it.

Again, so true. He has all these grand obsessions and really petty rivalries; strange combination. His method when it comes to science seems to be "what will happen if I inject this into that?" rather than anything advanced. Several people compare him unfavourably to Gast - Vincent, Sephiroth, Rufus - and on the cannon he claimed he was "defeated by his desire to be a scientist". Seems to me that taking over the Project and making super-soldiers and monsters for Shinra was his way of proving himself and confirming his own brilliance. There's something very desperate about that. And he's always trying to prove his superiority - he won't take off his labcoat in Costa del Sol because it's the "mark of an intellectual", he turns locking Vincent away into a game, leaving clues and riddles for people to solve, forcing you to figure out his puzzle. He reacts very badly when he finds out that only a failed experiment survived to take part in the Jenova Reunion. He also says no-one else can operate his equipment and that also seems like he's trying to validate himself and his own genuis - kind-of like, "I'm the greatest scientist in the world because no-one is clever enough to figure out my designs! No-one can decode my puzzles! No-one can beat me! No-one is smarter than me!"

So I think, considering how these qualities developed later, he must've always been distant and unstable even when younger, but all the obsessions, rivalries, emotions and mixed successes and failures of the Project brought him to breaking point. From then on, he was definitely someone quite different, someone who lived for his obsessions. He was a very bitter and disturbed person by the end, and there is something sad about that. He's sick, but the way that normal people can be sick - only with him, his fantastical situation drove that sickness beyond all control or restraint.

*gives you all secret badges*

Yay! Be sure to let us know when you're done - I'd love to read it!

OH GOD, YES.

I'll be so happy if you do this! Please do! We can't wait!

- Anyone mind me making official member badges? There is so few of us that I'd like to personalize them. ^_^

- I'll add up all those pics ASAP to the PB. It will continue to expand. BWA HA HA HA!

- You guys wanna provide me with stuff for the essays? I've been using DoC and VII vids on YouTube to help me out but other things are good too!

- Anyone up for massive vincrecia genocide?

- Here's something the little Vincrecia's will have to wrap their heads around:
1) If she doesn't love Hojo (which I'm certain she does) then she cares more about her career than teh prettyboi Turk.
2) IF she does have feelings for Vince (which I personally think she only saw him as a friend) then they weren't enough to stop her from wedding Hojo and having his baby.

Just thought of that. Hmmm... :D

- Nope, not at all. I love the idea! ^_^

- Glad you liked the 'pics. Enjoy! The fanfic recommendations are still, um...pending! But they're on their way!

- I'm not exactly sure what you mean by stuff that'll help the essay. There's only the game quotes and the Ultimania chart to go by, isn't there? What sort of material would you like? Anyway, for now here's the link to Hojo.org's Hojo/Lucrecia essay and here's a similar essay courtesy of Abandoned Hope. However, both are outdated and don't take DoC into consideration, but I hope you'll find them helpful.

- *readies the torches and pitchforks*

- Well, on those counts SE kinda used Grimoire as a way of justifying Lucrecia's rejection, though it doesn't make much sense (and totally retconned the circumstances which led to Lucrecia running away from Vincent). But again, the flashbacks are pretty much all told from Vincent's POV, aren't they? So it's kinda natural that we wouldn't see whatever drew her to Hojo. But DoC's Lucrecia has a major self-destructive streak anyway, so she might never have been happy with Vincent even if things had somehow turned out okay. But as for FFVII, I think she was clearly shown as a close and caring friend to Vincent, nothing more. She married Hojo and collaborated with him on the experiment (so she wasn't forced into it) and those things all suggest that she loved him and that they had a lot in common concerning their approach to science. Ultimania even says that Vincen't love for Lucrecia was unrequited...but ah, the rectons hurt me! >_<

Kkkk, I'm slow, but I found some gifts for you Nekodono! Hope it's new! :P



and some in my album:

Young Hojo and Reev

Hojo and babySephy

Hojo and Gask(Aerith's father...foget the name ><)

Enjoy! :fangirl:

Thanks! I'll add them all!

Here's everyone's member tags!

aerithlove, the first picture is BRILLIANT! :wub:

And yay! The badges are here! Let the pro-Hojo and Hocrecia takeover of this forum begin! Thanks for doing these for us, Neko! :huggle:

Teehee~~more, mooooore pics of this amazing prof Hojo!! :fangirl:

sweet moment

Young Hojo vs Vinc

Hojo's glare

And this one could be my fav recently~ :lmao:



Cool Hojo! :devil:

:o Why, my dear, doth thou accuseth me of something!? xD

Well, anyway - no matter how much I think Hojo's evilness is despicable, you've got to admit, he's got some evil style. xP He's brilliant, for a mad scientist. >w< So, yeah, you can sign me up. ;P

You'll never convert me to a Hocrecia/Hojo luvver, though. ;D My mind's so made up about that, it would change all my ethics and thoughts to like Hocrecia (or LURVE Hojo, because I really don't like ebal. Only sometimes)! xD

Um...Lute? You don't really sound like a fan so I'm not gonna sign you up yet. If you can really show me you actually like him then I'll add you.

ldfj'df';sdf/'

OMG HB I LOVE BEING IN THE SAME FANDOM WITH YOU. *HAF UR SCIENCY BABIEZ <3<3<3* Where do I start peeling at HB's awesome post of awesome? *is overwhelmed by, you guessed it, The Awesome*

aerithlove and HB, thank you sooo much for the fanart! *has mass-saved them all* Some favourites: definitely the one with Lucrecia doing a V-for-victory sign; and, well, I know I'm all W00T HOCRECIA IS SO TWISTED AWESOME but ya still can't resist those "awww" moments. :fangirl:

That flash animaton of Hojo's inner thoughts is so... perfect. XD <3

And I don't know why I keep thinking there's something fishy about this pic. Because heaven forbid Hojo ever eats pie like a NORMAL person. No, this has to be mutated pie for sure. XD Mutated Jenova pie with Mako trimmings.

Thank you! I got the pic of Hojo being molested/is molesting Experiment #62365! :woot:

Agreed, I really have nothing against Vincrecia as a pairing. But a large part of Hojo's characterisation was dependant on his role in the Jenova project and his relationship with Lucrecia (the fate of all side characters with no chance to grow continuously, I suppose). When Lucrecia's characterisation suffers, so does his because they're both so interconnected. Similarly, when you simplify Hojo into this cackling madman, Lucrecia's character suffers because every choice she made in FFVII seems totally ridiculous! When you take away any depth from the Hojo-Lucrecia link, both characters end up worse off because so much of their intricacy was derived from that relationship.

I also dislike greatly that the focus was taken off Hojo-Lucrecia-Vincent and made into Grimoire-Lucrecia-Vincent. Like, WTF? Why was Grimoire even needed? It's like SE cooked him up so they wouldn't have to deal with creepy, ugly ol' Hojo. >_>

I never once felt like Lucrecia felt sorry for herself in FFVII. Oh, there was regret, but mostly because Sephiroth suffered so much from her actions. But she never once blamed Hojo or Shinra for what happened, because she's a smart woman who could see how her choices placed her in this position. She was never trapped-- Vincent was clearly ready and willing to whisk her away from Shinra, even with a baby. And I'm sure that he would've done that even if she never loved him back. She made her choices, and I can't understand why SE insisted on turning her into this self-depreciating victim. It's like if a female character isn't a cackling witch-like villain, she MUST be the good victim of other (evil male) forces and incapable of just being plain wrong.

The one about Hojo wearing a moustache and tying Lucrecia to train tracks? OMG YES.

It's like SE threw away everything they knew about building up your villains, plucked MakoCannon!Hojo from FFVII and dumped him in DC for the sake of it. I wouldn't say Hojo was ever stable, but he wasn't always as loony as he was by the end of the game, or else I highly doubt Lucrecia or Gast would've gone anywhere near him. (They're SMART PEOPLE, they would have KNOWN BETTER.)

And I think this is especially important to remember since I don't believe Hojo was always That Guy Who Experiments On People Because He's Just Evil Like That. If he had always been this loose with his principles, Gast-- if anyone-- would have known from the beginning. Hojo was his subordinate, Gast had the president's ear, he would have done something. But Hojo probably wasn't doing that 30 years ago, so he probably wasn't always so extreme in his experiments. I feel it's only after the fantastical experiences of the Jenova Project, and as you mentioned, after the breakdown, that Hojo starts letting himself loose and acting more "evilly".

There's a progression in Hojo's character, basically, which DC ignored in favour of a crap.

As for his "evilness" vs. his amorality-- I think that factors into how he treated Aerith and Red XIII. In his mind, he's basically mating two different species together. The same way scientists mate a tiger with a lion. It's science to him, not putting a girl in the same container as a fierce animal for the sake of it.

The two that stood out to me was Hojo saying that his desire defeated him, as well as Lucrecia choosing him to save him. The first one just boggled me when I first played the game, because it was so...deep and reflective for your typical mad scientist-type character. It made me pay much more attention to Hojo since then. I still find myself trying to imagine what had he lost, what went through his mind when he admitted that. His entire identity IS as a scientist, yet perhaps as karmic betrayal, science is what destroys him.

The second one, essentially, proves to me that Hojo was not always an evil sumbitch since his diaper-days. For Lucrecia to want to protect him, there must have been something worth protecting. Vincrecia fans wonder why she would ever choose Hojo? Because there was something there that caught her, something that made her want to stay and save and nurture, something perhaps more satisfying and more important to her than the fairytale ending that Vincent was promising. If it can top THAT, whatever Hojo had had to be pretty something, I tell ya.

Wow, I love that idea. SO MUCH. It reminds me of your fic where Hojo mentioned how Gast was more than willing to be Sephiroth's surrogate father, so why did he need to bother interfering? It just... If Hojo can't even see himself as Sephiroth's father, but considers that position supplanted by Gast and/or Jenova, how is he supposed to act fatherly to the kid? This goes back to explaining the 'why's behind Hojo's actions-- I'm personally not satisfied with the assumption that he ignored/was cold towards Sephiroth because being an asshole is embedded in his genes.

The thing is, who the heck goes that far just to avoid the man they love? That's so... soap-opera-ish. If Lucrecia really didn't love Hojo and wanted to avoid Vincent or whatever, surely moving to a faraway town (ICICLE INN HELLOOO) would've sufficed. Or cutting all communication with him (Vincent's a stalker but he's a respectful one :P). Or something to that extent.

And having a BABY with a man you supposedly don't love at all? Why would you drag an innocent child into your own twisted love issues? Why not just stay married?

This kind of Lucrecia doesn't really appeal to me. Marriage and babies seem too irrational/desperate a step for someone like her, a respected, experienced woman/scientist and not some smitten teenager with no idea of the world.

I love the summary at the end. XD

To touch briefly on Hojo and Lucrecia's common interests-- it's not layman science we're talking about. This is hardcore, high-level seriaz business kinda stuff. As much as I'm sure Vincent will listen to Lucrecia's scientific ramblings, in the end it's just not the same. He's not stupid, god no, but he simply doesn't have the depth and knowledge that Hojo would have about Lucrecia's interests. Hojo would be able to challenge and stimulate her where Vincent would simply listen. Sure, that's not what makes or breaks a relationship and you definitely have scientists marry non-scientists-- but I think it's a significant boost for Lucrecia's interest in Hojo.

Ah, so much to talk about! Curse you, tomorrow's classes!

Bingo! I just don't understand it. I wouldn't even go so far as to marry someone to avoid a person. I'd just make all conversations short and dodge them when possible. Going so far as to marry another man (whom you apparently don't love...<_<) and have his baby is a little nonsensicalor illogical as Mr. Spock would put it. Besides, as you all said, the flash backs were told from VINCENT's point of view. His memories may very well be biased. How could his little obsessed mind grasp exactly what Lucrecia was feeling?

I hate how SE is changing all the romantic mechanics with new characters. Such as with Zack. The whole "ladies' man" thing I just figured was him just flirting but he only had one stable girlfriend. Instead they gave him three, including the new character Cissnei. It also applies here. Grimoire did NOT exist in the original VII game. He was never a plausible factor! But NOW he's a member of this messed love net. Will it ever end...?

I am fine with it as a fanon pairing because I can not see it as canon in any way. It's sort of with CloTi with me. It's fine as a fanon pairing but when the little fan girls start going insane then it kinda pisses me off.

I noticed the Vincrecia thread was bumped very recently. :giggle:

Here's an extra something of mine, btw: You Cradle Me and Kill. This is actually a Tseng-centric story, but Hojo has a very big part in it too, so I hope you guys will enjoy it. *crosses fingers*

Thank you! *would keep your pickled head in a jar on her desk any day of the week* That post was a breeding-ground for teal deers so I hope you guys don't mind me giving you so much to respond to.

I know! I can't stop watching it... *mesmerised* But yes, that's EXACTLY how I picture Hojo's thoughts during FFVII!

Now I can't stop thinking of "Is it an evil vet school?" types of gags. "Hey Hojo, here's your slice 'o pie." "Is it an eeeevil pie?", etc.

Oh, it's not molesting. They're both definitely consenting and enjoying the experimental tentacle love, see? *new OTP* :wub:

I'd argue that the same applies to Vincent too, and that he suffers from how one-dimensional Hojo is in this. They mirror each other really well as characters (one is a monster on the outside, the other has lost his inner-humanity, one is a hired gun, the other a scientist and they've both done terrible things for their jobs, they both have different feelings for Lucrecia, etc) but this and their rivalry is ruined when Hojo is changed from a man with a valid standpoint and claim on Lucrecia's heart into a laughing maniac then it lessens Vincent as a character.

Not to mention how DoC ruined his "as long as she is happy" line. Now it's not as selfless and devoted a statement as it used to be but just kinda...there. "If she's happy, I don't mind, but she didn't REALLY seem all that happy, but oh well".

(I'm not all that keen on how DoC treated Vincent's character for other reasons too, but that's another story.)

Exactly! If you go by DoC, there's nothing to attract her to him and even less reason why she should trust him...so she must be...well, I don't even think "stupid" qualifies. Mad would be better. Her choices aren't just foolish, they make no sense.

It's so strange how SE choose to complicate their stories with proto-materia, Chaos and Omega, geostigma, Genesis, etc but simplify a really compelling subplot like the Jenova Project... *sigh*

I want to frame this quote and hang it up on my wall. A lot of what made these two fascinating was their connection to each other (and to Vincent) and when that link is lessened, they both come off looking quite ridiculous. Like it or not, these two people formed Sephiroth, they are important, they were important to each other and in an exploration of this subplot it's important to understand them.

Like I said earlier, he's there to connect Vincent and Lucrecia even more and to provide Lucrecia with a handy throwaway excuse for rejecting Vincent later.

That's pretty much it - Hojo is fugly, unpopular, creepy and evil (and Sephiroth aboosive daddy) whilst Vincent is pretty much the opposite. So screw the original game's ambiguity! Can't make Vincent look bad or confuse the gamers by making Hojo remotely sympathetic! <_<

The whole passage is dead-on, Lynn. She never pitied herself or apologised to Vincent in the original game and seemed to think her punishment was deserved (implying that she was an active participant in the Project rather than anyone's dupe). But, like Hojo, she's so simplified in this. She did bad things to Sephiroth and married Hojo, but she was sorry about what she did to Sephy and she cared for Vincent! And Vincent couldn't possibly love an evil woman! So she MUST be really good and was just forced into doing bad things somehow - it makes perfect sense! [/sarcasm] She was such a "shades of grey" character before, and it's sad to see that part of her personality not done justice.

YES, THAT'S THE ONE! :woot: I think I proposed marriage to it at one point, I loved it so much.

I think it's pretty consistent with their attitude throughout the compilation, sadly. Isn't there a Nomura quote out there which admits that in AC they changed Cloud's attitude from what it is at the end of the game to something closer to "how he's remembered by players"...? I think this is pretty much the same thing - most gamers remember a giggling crazy guy in a labcoat, so who cares what the game showed or how subtle his characterisation was? Main difference is that Cloud gets a very good reason for his depression and a novella detailing its progression, whereas Hojo gets zilch.

I mean, I liked his craziness in Maiden! It was IC and made sense because he was shown to be that level of crazy just before he died. So him throwing away all he had left of himself was 100% consistent. And accordingly, he's much calmer (and sinister in a more subtle way) during LO, because he's not that far down the spiral yet. But everything about his portrayal in DC is so off.

YES. Gast seemed shocked and horrified when Hojo dropped that remark about using Aeris and Ifalna for his experiments. Why would he if Hojo did stuff like this every day of the week? He was definitely unhinged all along, but the really twisted stuff doesn't take place until he's the man in charge. More than that, Gast seems a very compassionate and decent person and I don't think Hojo could've come off as anything more than an extreme workoholic or Gast would've done something about it and stopped him getting a position of power.

Uh huh, THAT'S WHY HOJO KEPT VINCENT LOCKED IN THE BASEMENT, PEOPLE. The experiments he conducted on him were secret ones. He couldn't have gotten away with it at that point. Yes, he'd definitely snapped, but he had enough rationality to cover it up. It's only in FFVII when we see that cover seriously rot away.

Definitely agreed - he was always probably unhinged and dysfunctional, but the whole experience of the Jenova Project, obsessing over Jenova, creating Sephiroth and that breakdown really contributed to snapping him and making him lose all restraint. Not to mention how he went up in the world afterwards and - especially after Gast's disappearence - had a very free reign concerning what he could do. Shinra's goal was to make super-soldiers to enforce its hold on the world and this pretty much meant that Hojo could be as extreme as he wanted considering that his "angle" as far as experiment go, really suited Shinra's agenda. Breakdown + Power + No Consequences is the kind of combination that, like you said, can really feed into an already unhealthy mind.

It grates me, cause this is such interesting development. It's a human kind of insanity in a way; he doesn't just go nuts and burn down a town after finding out an awful truth but everything adds up over the years to the point where it's easier to go forward than to try and go back.

That's such a perfect way of putting it, Lynn. I think I said this somewhere else but it's just a great line because he's the one person involved in the Project who lost the least, so whatever he meant by that must have been important to him. It really sounds like he's ackowledging that he took the lower road. And of course, experimenting on your wife and child is one of the least (strictly) scientific things you can do because it ruins your objectivity. So he kind-of shot himself in the leg with that one.

I think his obsession with success and failure also makes him something of a strange parallel to Cloud with his similar issues in that area (could work, considering how often Vincent and Cloud are compared, why not the other side of the coin?)

Lucrecia wanting to protect him matches up quite nicely with this quote too. I can't help but imagine that maybe this - him being defeated by his desire to be a scientist - was exactly what she saw going wrong in him, and wanted to stop from happening to him. And like you said, there must've been something there worth saving. Ambiguous character or not, Lucrecia is definitely quite a noble character so it must've been something good that drew her to him.

I think you could easily explain Hojo's attitude towards Sephiroth as evidence that he was very emotionally detached. And I think his attitude on the Mako Cannon showed that he definitely felt paternal love towards him, twisted as it was. I think he must've hid behind his conclusion that Sephiroth was more Jenova's than anyone else and used it to stay aloof, but towards the end that biological connection won out. And I think that the fact that Hojo's insanity and brutality in his experiments seemed to seriously ramp-up after the Nibelheim incident and Sephiroth's "death" (as well as the fact that most of these experiments were attempts to create Sephiroth-clones) also work to express his affection in a really dark and deranged way.

Here's one - why didn't she just request that Shinra replace Vincent with another Turk? It would definitely have been possible and within her rights.

Well, considering that Vincent still hangs around even after that, maybe he needs really strong hints. :P

But again - making the Hojo/Lucrecia romance, Sephiroth's conception and his role in the Jenova Project all about Vincent and all down to Lucrecia's guilt and wanting to push him away cheapens the whole thing beyond words.

I was looking forward to some surprises in a reinterpretation like DoC, but Grimoire's influence is way too much. I mean, who could ever have guessed from the original scene of Lucrecia's rejection that she was actually running away because she was so guilty over the part she played in the death of Vincent's father? That's the kind of stuff you find in fanfic. No fan could've reached that conclusion and using this complicated subplot to try and "justify" Lucrecia choosing Hojo (rather than presenting Hojo as well as both Vincent and Lucrecia themselves in a more rounded way) is really cheap. Why couldn't she have had a legitimate reason to be hesitant about Vincent? I don't care if it ended up canonising Vincrecia so long as it actually examined both relationships whilst doing so.

I'll admit I don't like the V/L pairing as much as I did before DC was released, if only because the official relationship is much less interesting than how I'd always imagined it to be. But that's not the fans' fault, so I don't want to hurt any feelings. It's a perfectly fine pairing. I see it as canon in DC but I also see that SE had to retcon all the original info to hell and back to get to that happy conclusion, and if you just look at FFVII (and I usually do, cause I'm not that fond of the compilation) then the evidence is definitely in favour of Hojo/Lucrecia.

Now for some fun stuff - fanfic recommendations! Beware, the list is long. Oh, but is anyone interested in starting a Hojo (or Hojo/Lucrecia) C2 on FF.Net? *curious* It'd be a great way of keeping all the good stuff where we can easily find it. ^_^

Professor Hojo vs the Shinra Accounting Department by Aerika S. A hilarious take on the problematic aspects of raising Sephiroth, it manages to be extremely funny, very well-written and absolutely IC at the same time.

Professor Hojo vs Education by Aerika S. The sequel! President Shinra thinks Sephiroth needs to spend time in a co-ed enviornment. Hojo doesn't agree. Comedy gold happens.

Shinra Vignettes: Hojo by Pip Malloy. Hojo's perspective, brilliant, cold and obsessive.

Something Borrowed by NineShadows. This is actually a Vincent 'fic, but it's such a fantastic and well-written take on Turk!Vincent's character that I can't ignore it. This is a wonderful take on his thoughts on Hojo and Lucrecia's wedding day.

Instead by Jess Angel. Wonderfully disturbing and surreal poem.

Beyond Madness by shinsetsu. Hojo, Gast and Lucrecia in the Lifestream. I really like this one - the concept is really interesting and there's something very beautiful and poignant about this one.

Triple Angst by Locked Heart Ami. Really original poem combining Hojo, Lucrecia and Sephiroth's thoughts.

Untitled by Shala Xiaorong. GAH! An absolutely gorgeous and insane Hojo/Lucrecia moment.

Out of Place by Wallwalker. Brilliantly-written and very original pre-game story. It's one of those ideas that you wouldn't really think of, but once you've read this you'll say to yourself "Why didn't I think of that possibility before?"

Let the Tears Fall by Neko Kuroban. It's not really a Hojo story, just a very unique and dark take on Vincent and Lucrecia's relationship. I think everyone here might like this.

Life by drakonlily. A poem, and one of the best and most fascinatingly disturbing Hojo-pieces I've ever had the pleasure of reading.

i feel sick by Damned Elize. But as far as "disturbing" goes, this is a close runner-up. It's short, but don't read if you're easily squicked.

Rising Through the Ranks by Ardwynna Morrigu. Amazingly written and characterized story! This is actually a Sephiroth-centric story, but Hojo is a major player, and his character and especially his relationship with Sephiroth is so perfectly depicted. This is EXACTLY as I see it.

Eden by Finding Beauty. The end result of Hojo and Vincent's rivalry and a very good exploration of Vincent's view of the scientist.

Becomes You by Finding Beauty. NekoDono, look away. It's yaoi. Hojo/Vincent yaoi. I usually run a mile from this kind of thing myself but this piece is excellent.

Irrevocable by Artistic Suicide. The first chapter of what looks to be a very promising Hojo-fic. I hope the author will update, and soon.

Pack Mentality by Shiankra. This is a really high-standard piece. Hojo gives his opinion on the Turks, and it's really scathing and insightful stuff. And it's a great idea, because I've always thought that after Vincent, Hojo would have a really low opinion of all Turks just by association. Both Hojo and the Turks are amazingly depicted in this, this offers a really unique view of each Turk and the venom to the tone of this strong is so strong you can practically taste it.

A Monstrous Gift by Sargent Snarky. Wonderfully crazy and twisted (and bizarrely sweet) Hojo story. He has a little present for Lucrecia...

A Science Apart by Sabriel41. Lucrecia's perspective on the love-triangle. An excellent piece.

Echoes of Angels by Sabriel41. An astonishingly good Hojo (and Hojo/Lucrecia) story. A classic and a must-read.

Crimsonality by Sabriel41. Arrgh! When will Sabriel stop hogging all the good Hojo-characterisation and share some with the rest of us? I love a taunting, gloating Hojo, and this look into his derranged mind is fantastic.

Hojo's Love by absolutecalm77. Hojo's twisted fatherly love for Sephiroth. I think this is the kind of piece that could definitely benefit from a beta-reader, but the insights are great.

Choke by Buckle. A strong Vincent/Lucrecia piece but also a great look into Lucrecia's mind and an excellent and dark look at the lofe-triangle and the insanity of all three people involved.

Bonds of Ash and Blood by invisiblesplotch. Intriguing poem entwining Sephiroth's thoughts on Lucrecia with his thoughts on Hojo.

Hojo: Beyond Love by Christine-Calvary. A warped, cold, insane and quite evil Hojo here, but also extremely deep and fascinating. If only DoC could've offered as much insight into a twisted and cruel soul.

Grace by IAmSuper. This is just fabulous. A very unique characterization of Lucrecia and insight into why she chose Hojo. Not the nicest or most sympathetic or stories, but a very original glimpse.

All will be Well by CrimsonSun. Lovely eerie poem about Hojo's relationship with Jenova.

A Moment by CrimsonSun. Creepy and twisted poem about Hojo visiting Lucrecia's cave.

Chain of Hearts by CrimsonSun. Brilliant poem of Hojo's perspective on the love-triangle!

If by CrimsonSun. Another poem and a brilliant and bitter look at Hojo's misery and madness.

Lucrecia Falls by CrimsonSun. Excellent story! Really excellent; well-written and with such an original touch with both plot and characterisation. Three men visit the crystal cavern...

Damn Cold Night by Hojo. Hojo buries Lucrecia and loses all her cares for. Eerie and sympathetic, a rare find.

Beautiful Dreamer by esotaria. Fantastic and beautiful insight into why Lucrecia chose Hojo.

A Wheel Inside a Wheel by dilly2. A really painful look at Hojo's side of the love triangle. Bitter, angsty, touching with a perfect sting in the tale. It ends on just the right note. Really powerful characterisation.

Human by Sztorm. One of my favourites - this is a really fascinating look at the Project and the love triangle and all three characters are brilliantly-written and so intriguing. Everyone is portrayed as very flawed but portrayed so well at the same time, giving the story a really dark and depressing feel to it. The title fits so perfectly for this story because absolutely no-one is perfect here.

Set Into Motion by ChaosVincent. Hojo and Lucrecia kiss for science. Brilliant.

Stand Inside Your Love by seasonofthepumpkin. This author is one hell of a Hojo-writer and all of her fics are genuis pieces of characterisation. This story is actually like many other Vincent/Lucrecia pieces, but the twist at the end is worth waiting for. It's a perfect Lucrecia moment.

Two words by seasonofthepumpkin. A really poisonous look into Hojo's mind as he plots revenge. A very passionate piece.

Unsuccessfully Coping by seasonofthepumpkin. Hojo confronts Lucrecia. Bitter and frightening.

The Scientist by seasonofthepumpkin. A great look at the progression of the Jenova Project.

The Sarcastic Hojo and Vincent Story by seasonofthepumpkin. I love this one! A definite favourite! It's a hilarious story that pretty much exposes every cliche and plot hole that crops up in every badly-written Jenova Project story. A very funny and entertaining read.

Classic Girl by seasonofthepumpkin. This piece is simply chilling. It makes my skin crawl, it's so brilliantly on-the-mark. Hojo talks to Vincent about Lucrecia. The characterisation here is freaking excellent.

She Never Lies by seasonofthepumpkin. This was the first ever Hojo-fic I ever read many, many years ago, and it's still a great piece. An absolute classic, this one, and a really fascinating and eerie insight into both Hojo's mind and reasoning as well as his warped relationship and adoration of Jenova. A must-read.

Anyway, that's everything! Happy reading, everyone! ^_^

Fantastic! I'll make us a giant fan fic list as well on the 1st post. The PB is all up to date! Have more? Post 'em up! Can I get a yay for startin' this? :D The essay is almost ready. From re watching the VII scenes and the DoC ones I gotta say...they REALLY butchered it.

(*stunned :o )Sweetlord HB !! how'd you get all those fabulous fanfics I'll never know!! :lmao: Thanks for sharing!! :gift:

And I LOVE ALL LYNNxHB'S POSTS HERE!!!! YOu win Hojo Cup!!!! :hyper:

Heyheee...since I'm poor in using Eng, I can only support this club by adding more fanarts~ :P


Cuuuuty Hojo!!! :lmao: I think he and Reeve must not get along well in Shinra~XDDD


Hojo's info page in UB surprised me yesterday....there's a tidbit about him and Lucrecia!! :woot: I'll translate it and post it on LTD board soon as I'm done, keep an eye on it,will ya!XDD

Oh honey, your English is just fine! :lol: Due to your devoted work I'm going to make you a member badge.

XD They don't wanna lose the war I guess. (War? What War?)

Thanks for the heads up. Normally I just click links blindly! lol

Thanks soooo much for that one. I love it! :D

:hyper:

OTP!

But wow, thanks for the compliment! Glad you're enjoying our posts! *eagerly awaiting Lynn's sexeh responses*

I agree with Neko - your english is very good, and if you have an opinion please don't be shy about sharing it. We'd love to hear what you think. And thanks very much for the fanart! They're so strange and cute! :huggle:

And waaaaah - there are Ultimania tidbits on Hojo and Lucrecia? :fangirl:

I can't wait! If you translate it, I'll love you forever!

Heeeeeey! Can't I have a little love for starting this? XD

I had my friend Yuki translate my copy of Ultimania (recently received in the mail <3). She said she didn't understand those old translations but the ones aerithlove does are excellent. She's transcripting them for me so I can post 'em here. :lol:

*hugz n kissez an has hawt secks with all you guys*

:o Aw, c'mere j00! We didn't mean it like that! *upgrades OTP into OT3* You are excellent for starting this thread and for holding back the Vincrecia horde and you get tons of love from every member here by default. :hug:

And wow I am so looking forward to the essay, your upcoming 'fic, and the Ultimania translations! So many treats! :fangirl:

Neko, dear, I believe we'll now require a OT3 sig for this club. :grouphug:

Aww, HB, your love is so sweet and twisted! Hojo would approve! *caresses your cheek with my soft-yet-conveniently-rough thumb, contemplating how your ruby red eyes would look in my koi-shaped jar of love*

HAH, "mind"? Nevah! (Duuuude, you've SEEN some of my posts, right? I'm the last person qualified to hate on long posts! XD) Though I might take a bit to respond, but know well that I want to print every one of these posts out and file them up as proof of our love. :glomp2: (It'll have Hojo on the cover! Looking insane!)

Neko's right, your English is fine. And you're certainly putting more effort into your posts than some people I know who've been speaking English as their first language for all their life. :huggle: Don't hesitate to say something if it interests you!

I'm also eagerly awaiting your Ultimania translations for Hojo and Lu! *shall not, however tempting, abuse her modly powers by closing the LTD Ultimania thread to spur the H/L translations* And thank you for more adorable Hojo-eating-Reeve's-head fanart!

Hmm... Whether Vincrecias go around declaring their pairing canon doesn't really affect me since I don't take part in this LTD (and canonity only really matters in a debate, anyway). It's probably also because I'm up to my nose with canon/fanon stuff in the CxTxA debate. At some point the question has gotten nauseating.

I'm just pissed that in the process of catering to Vincrecia in DC, the writers completely dropped the ball on Hojo's character and his relationship to Lucrecia (which in turn makes Lu and Vincent's characters suffer). It's like I'd be pretty pissed if Tifa's character had to be butchered just to canonise Cleris.

WORD. I refuse to make Vincent the centre of Hojo's problems. There's just something very distasteful about that to me, likely in the same way I dislike how Sephiroth and Cloud have become the centre of each other's worlds outside the original game.

It's just bad fanfiction, SE. Very bad.

-I'll get right on it! I'll even make it all fancy shmancy and NOT be a lazy arse.

-Yuki will be by my house today after she finishes her shift at her mom's restaurant. *longs for the flash drive that has all the transcripts*

-In what format should I post the essay? Should I just copy & paste it on to here?

- Damn straight. In the fic I wrote Vincent really isn't an issue. He's there and is somewhat a pain but over all he's not a main point. Hojo's problems stem from his own obsession of the persuit of truth.

- Thanks to my retiring the CxAxT battlefield I have more time to debate other things, including this nonsense. Although I am actually more a gaming ethics debater rather than a pairing debater.

- In some ways I prefer how small this club is. It feels like were a little closer and not washed out in a multitude. :lol:

*melts* But what to do now? Express my love by caressing your arm and giving you a reputation or by injecting you with Jenova-cells? :sad:

No worries; take all the time you like! We'll churn out crazy, obsessive theories and spend thirty years in our basements! Our tl;dr love will have Hojo's seal of crazy approval!

Aw c'mon, modly power is only there to be abused... :devil:

As far as canon goes, I usually seperate things into FFVII-Canon and Compilation-Canon and try to deal with them seperately. And I do like Vincrecia but I guess I now like the fanon version of the couple (I know a lot of Vincrecia 'fics I think very highly of) rather than what we see of them in the new canon.

I don't know if I'd seriously debate the whole HxLxV thing with anyone outside of this forum (we're all friends here so we can playfully have at each other in some discussions now and then) and I prefer to just share my opinions with you lovely, like-minded people. But like Neko said, this is much less annoying and more fun than the AxCxT LTD. Sometimes talking about hand-reach scenes gets a little repetative, so that's the perfect time to talk about hands reaching for Jenova-injections, guns to shoot Turks with and twisted romantic stuff like that. :whistle:

I do hate it when people revisit stories and simplify LT's by making one option the bad guy, "and that's all there is to it". There are so many ways to cater to Vincrecia and show it as a deep and reciprocal love without making Hojo so unappealing and freaky that no girl in her right mind would go near him. And like NekoDono said sometime earlier, it means butchering what we were shown in the flashbacks.

Even more annoyingly, there are some hints at a legit LT in DoC when Hojo says "So you came to your senses and chose me" (implying that there was a choice and Lu knew he was interested in her) but we never see any earlier scene that hints at that. We never get any scene that shows their relatiosnhip, not even as collegues. So even him being available to her to use as a way of pushing Vincent away feels kinda out of the blue.

MARRY ME AND BEAR MY JENOVA-INFUSED SUPER-BABIES, LYNN! DON'T MAKE ME TIE YOU TO THE RAILROAD-TRACKS! *shoots Neko and hides her under the table*

And that's not even the worst thing about DoC's plot. Protomateria, Weiss...why, SE, why? :cry:

It's completely up to you, sweetheart. Whatever's easiest for you - you can copy it here you could post it as a new thread in the FFVII section if you want more varied replies, etc. But do whatever it is you prefer. ^_^

Exactly right, Neko. Vincent's only real threat was that he might change Lucrecia's mind about the experiment and help her run off, but it was quite clear from her attitude that she wasn't changing her stance. He didn't have any official power to stop the experiment, and from his own words in FFVII he just stood by and did nothing till it was too late. So you really can't pin Vincent as the source of Hojo's insanity. He's part of the chain of things that made Hojo snap, I think. Vincent just unknowingly chose a terrible moment to confront him, really.

Yes! It's so cozy here with just the four of us! :grouphug:

Edit: Guess what I just found? :giggle:

Makes me glad I have a basement! *runz down there to live until she's 46*

Exactly. I was worn out by the AxCxT LTD so I took my leave to debate other things. And this is an interesting LTD although it can be frustrating when it is 1 or 2 vs 40.

I'm actually shocked it isn't closed yet. I mean...haven't we covered it all? :unsure:

Great! Now I'm gonna become a pseudo-vampire emo. :vincent:

Bingo! You win the prize! To be honest, I'm not sure Hojo was a complete psycho at that point. I've heard a lot of "Yes he was! Gosh, I can't believe Lu married that nut job." I mean, we have an unfilled 30 year time gap. Plenty of time for the man to lose his marbles slowly.

*throws out all thoughts of "no vincent bashing" and laughs herself silly*

A big reason why I like to step into this debate and argue for Hojo and H/L is because I really hate retcons (gasp! it was all a dream!) and believe they damage quality storylines rather than add to them. It's more than just a pairing thing; for example, even if I got what I wanted and H/L was catered to in DC I'd have hated it if it came at the expense of the V/L relationship - if it completely trashed their connection, ignored how close Lucrecia must've been with him to tell him about her sins, her guilt over Sephiroth, and to ask Vincent for the truth, ignored the flasback scene where we see them forming a definite friendship, ignored the fact that Vincent probably wouldn't have made a move if he didn't have some indication or hope that she felt the same way, and basically painted Lucrecia as being totally uninterested in Vincent and Vincent as a crazy stalker. That would've been just as terrible. But what a lot of Vincrecia fans don't realize is that this is basically what happened to the other side and rather than being an ambiguous and complicated triangle, it's now just a straight V/L love-story with Hojo as more obstruction than anything else. Retcons are terrible, they give bad writers the power to trash and cheapen amazing storylines, ruin characters, and drag down the overall quality of a franchise. I hate them, so when I see one, it puts the debating-fire back in my belly. ^_^

But there are things about DC's expanding on the characters I like, too (all non-rectons). I know it sounds like I hate everything about DC!Lucrecia but I really like that her area of scientific expertise/interest is monsters (yay! nods to the parallel between Hojo and Vincent!), how obsessive she became during the Chaos experiments and how driven she was before Grimoire's death to prove her theories no matter what... It definitely shows there that she and Hojo had something in common, but it never followed through in it to show how they might've built a relationship. Her personality was likeable too and it was good to see a sweet relationship between her and Vincent, but it's just everything that happens afterwards with Grimoire, her guilt, and her choice to be with Hojo that makes no