What are your thoughts on this? Any ideas?

For one thing, I don't think that sparing Aeris means ruining the storyline. I've always believed that Aeris' death wasn't necessary - not that Square shouldn't have done it, but that if the characters had acted a little differently, her death could've been avoided. That's what (to me) makes her death so sad; the fact that it didn't need to happen. Her death isn't a sacrifice, it's a tragedy. So, I also don't think that Aeris needed to die for Holy to work. She only has to reach the Planet (I always thought this was through communication rather than death) for her spell to work, which she did - when Sephiroth stabs Aeris, the White Materia is already green, which tells me she's already succeeded; Sephiroth arrives too late to stop her, but Cloud arrives too late to save her (ooh the symbolism!).

Anyway, on the the thread's actual topic...

I've seen a good number of fanfics exploring this idea and the majority of them haven't been up to much - mostly the author just makes Cloud cry and angst and realize that Tifa is his true love after all, etc. It's a shame really, because it's such an interesting idea if you explore it fully because just think about how the rest of the game would play out (I'm almost tempted to write a fanfic but I can't write multi-chapters to save my life and I'd feel too sad and guilty about giving Tifa such an unhappy ending).

This is what I'd like to speculate about...if you guys would be sweet enough to join in, of course! :D

And, of course, what I want to focus on is...how this would affect Cloud and Aeris' relationship! Well, obviously their relationship would be much better if she was still alive (lol), but what I mean is how would Tifa dying in Aeris' place affect the storyline and the development of Cloud and Aeris' romance. :wub:

I don't think things would play out just the way they did in the game, only with Aeris filling in Tifa's role, and both Cloud and Aeris feeling guilty over Tifa's loss. I feel it's much more complicated than that.

But how would it happen? The way I see it, it could happen if when Aeris leaves the party at Gongaga, Tifa catches her and asks her what's going on. Aeris tells her everything she's planning, and Tifa wants to help because the idea of protecting everyone - protecting Cloud, protecting the Planet from Sephiroth and Shinra, protecting everyone from everything evil - is something that Tifa would want enormously, given her tragic past. So, Tifa decides to go with her to the Forgotten City, and help her however she can, knowing that Aeris is putting herself in huge danger and needs someone to watch her back, and that Cloud would feel much better and less unsure if he knew Tifa was with her, protecting her. Then let's say that when Cloud (and later Sephiroth) arrive at the City, Tifa acts on instinct (she'd be standing close to Aeris at the time) and takes the blow herself, because she doesn't know whether or not Aeris' prayer has worked yet and whether or not Holy has been summoned. Knowing how important it is that Aeris survives to summon Holy, Tifa pushes Aeris out of the way and sacrifices herself, dying instantly, buying Aeris a few precious moments to get away from Sephiroth (who's still trying to kill her - in so many fanfics I've seen after Seph kills Tifa instead of Aeris he just gloats at Cloud about killing "his real true love" and just forgets all about Aeris, and doesn't make another attempt on her life even if she's right there, lying at his feet) and run from the altar to the protection of her friends before the shock sinks in and she realizes that Tifa is dead.

Assuming that Tifa dies in the City of the Ancients (most fanfics have her sacrifice her life), after her burial and the inital shock wears off, I think Aeris would tell Cloud about why she was at the City, praying for Holy, letting him know everything that was going on. I also think that if Aeris could've been saved in the game without Tifa dying, then Aeris and Cloud would definitely have admitted their feelings afterwards, but this wouldn't have happened at that time if Tifa died saving Aeris. Neither of them would be thinking about romance, and Aeris would cetrainly be far too respectful of Tifa and her sacrifice to just flirt with Cloud as if nothing's happened. But on the other side of things, I think that losing Tifa, whom he cared for deeply, would make Cloud realize how precious Aeris is to him and how he can't lose her too, even if he doesn't express it, even to himself.

Holy is still blocked by Sephiroth, but knowing that they're one step ahead of him (he hasn't even summoned Meteor yet, remember), and this would give the team the strength and hope to move forward. Cloud and Aeris would both be horribly shaken during this time. They would both feel grief and guilt, and they'd both express it differently. While they wouldn't get together romantically (after a horrible tragedy and the loss of such a close friend, I think romance would be the furthest thing from their minds), they would be a big comfort to each other. They'd both be feeling vulnerable with grief and because of this, their mutual closeness with Tifa and their own special connection, they'd become closer and more intimate but in an emotional and spiritual way rather than physical.

When the party reaches the Icicle Inn, Aeris would be able to find out about her parents, see how much she was loved as a baby, and learn what happened to her father, which I think would really effect her emotionally. Not to say that she'd suddenly get depressed and angsty, but of course she'd cry and probably be quiet and reflective (like in Cosmo Canyon). And this is when the dynamic of the relationship changes a little - like at Cosmo Canyon, when Aeris is feeling alone and sad, it's Cloud that's the strong one, offering her help and wanting to be there for her. Supporting Aeris at a time like this and just being there with her while she sorts out her feelings would help him let go of his grief for Tifa a little, and embrace the present.

Things change when Sephiroth confronts Cloud, though. What do you think would happen? While Cloud would have less reason to crumble because Aeris would be there supporting him and Tifa wouldn't be able to doubt him, I still think Cloud would end up in the same state of confusion. Sephiroth could even manipulate Tifa's death to his own advantage in some way. In the original game, after this part Cloud is very introverted and Tifa doesn't reach out to him because she's just as lost and confused herself, too scared to tell him the truth even when she has to, and feels that she needs time to think. I think Aeris would take a different approach - after all, she doesn't know that Cloud was (apparently) never at Nibelheim so she wouldn't be so disturbed because she isn't as unsure as Tifa and on top of that she wouldn't know that there was some truth in what Sephiroth was saying (she would recognise Zack from the vision though...). I don't think Aeris would ever believe what Sephiroth was saying or doubt Cloud, even when Cloud is doubting himself because she believes in him so much and believes that everything will be alright in the end. How would she react to what Sephiroth tells Cloud about him being a clone?

I think Aeris would be the only person to guess how crucial it is right then to help Cloud, the only person able to see how vulnerable he is to Sephiroth's will and how dangerous it is and how she has to snap him out of it and help him. So I think she'd try more than ever to reach Cloud now, and bring the real him out. She'd be much more willing than Tifa to confront him and challenge him about what he remembers, but she'd still be very tender and supportive.

So what would happen? Aeris would know that it was actually Zack at Nibelheim and she knows that Cloud has taken on a lot of Zack's surface characteristics, too (Cloud's connection to Zack would probably make perfect sense to her all of a sudden, too). So, how would it play out, do you think? Would Cloud end up giving Sephiroth the Black Materia?

Let's just say that he does to lead to the next big change, shall we (of course, you can talk as much as you like about what could happen if he doesn't, I'm just choosing to tackle the original storyline)? So Meteor's been summoned, Cloud's missing and Aeris is in Shinra custody, but since she isn't Tifa, she doesn't have a tendency to fall into comas. :P

I actually wonder how it would have turned out for Aeris at that point. Because she wasn't involved in the Midgar bombings, like Tifa, she wouldn't be set down for execution (just poor Barret!). Shinra might still take an interest in her, because she's the last Cetra...especially if they find out that she's already summoned Holy... Would she be able to get away? Would she be able to find something out (if she's in special Shinra custody, she might be able to get some access to some files) or help the others escape?

Assuming she does, and except for a lot of the details changing, the main events are still the same and the group escapes and takes the Highwind with them. Of course, they try to find Cloud. But what happens when they do? He's in a terrible state, but how do you think Aeris would react? Would she fall into despair like Tifa does? I'm of two minds about this - on the one hand, like Tifa, it would hurt Aeris deeply to see Cloud suffering so much, and reduced to such a state in which he can't even hear her voice and is totally alone. How do you think she would cope with that? However, Aeris is much tougher and more optimistic than Tifa; even with Cloud in that state she wouldn't give up on him. Tifa caves in straight away and wonders if he'll ever recover and ever get to know the truth. Aeris doesn't have the same sort of guilt that Tifa has about not telling him the truth and doubting him when he needed her the most, and I think that Aeris would never doubt Cloud's humanity. She'd believe that they'd pull through this, no matter how dark it is.

Which makes me wonder what'd happen next. Because while I don't believe Aeris would ever abandon Cloud and leave him in Mideel alone without any friend to look after him, I can't very easily see her giving up. That's what Tifa does in looking after Cloud; she stops caring about saving the Planet because to her, Cloud is more important. And as important as Cloud is to Aeris, I don't believe she'd think like that. She has a much broader view of things, and knows that there are more people in the world than her and Cloud, no matter what she feels for him. While I can see her care for Cloud the way Tifa did, and I know she wouldn't willingly abandon him, I have difficulty thinking of her leaving the group and letting them sort out Sephiroth and Shinra themselves - I just don't believe she'd do that. In fact, I can even see her taking proper charge of the group (I bet she'd make a fantastic temporary leader)!

So what do you think she'd do? Stay with Cloud or find another way? I think she'd try and balance the two out - she'd try to find a way help and look after Cloud, but without pulling out of the adventure and giving up. But then again...if she's pushed to make a choice, what would it be? Help Cloud or protect the Planet? Cloud or the Planet? For a Cetra to choose between the fate of the Planet and the man she loves, that's a terrible situation...

And what if, in some way or another, if after she makes her choice, the Lifesteam event takes place? Is Aeris involved? If so, how helpful could she be? To Aeris' advantage, she's a Cetra and can communicate with the Lifesteam, so she won't be wandering around helpless - she can do something. I don't think this would take place like the same sequence with Tifa at all. Aeris isn't Tifa; she knows nothing about Cloud's childhood or the burning of Nibelheim. So what can she do? If anything, she'd try and work around it by focusing on Cloud and his memories of Zack...how would this play out? How can Cloud reclaim his memories without Tifa? How would the many versions of Cloud in the Lifestream respond to Aeris? Would the two succeed in finding the "real" Cloud? How would this affect things between them afterwards?

Anyway, I'll leave it at that, because that's when Tifa's major moments of influence on the game - and Cloud - end. Besides, I've given you enough to chew over and my fingers are tired now. But please tell me what you think. Speculate with me! :P

I agree that it wasn't necessary, but it's something Sakaguchi wanted written into the story. He felt that if the topic of the story was Life, that it also had to include Death - probably because it is a part of Life. The creators decided to kill Aerith, of all people - perhaps because they could work it into the story better (if she had to sacrifice her life for Holy to work), but also because it would have the greatest impact on the main character of the story, since she was the woman he loved. However, I would much rather that Aerith never died in FFVII, despite what people say about it enhancing the storyline. I've always wished that we knew the original story in which there was no question that Aerith was Cloud's love interest.

Unfortunately, Aerith did have to die in order for Holy to work. Vilaeth, the main translator at AC.net, confirmed that for us from the Japanese script. I had always been suspicious of the same thing, but Vilaeth said no - it was definite that she had to die. :(

I think the story would have taken a very different turn if Tifa had died rather than Aerith. The same storyline wouldn't have been followed. If Tifa were to push Aerith out of the way as Sephiroth descended and sacrificed her own life to save Aerith, then Sephiroth would still want to kill Aerith. It would buy Cloud enough time to save Aerith in the Forgotten City, but I think Sephiroth would still be after her. As you said, the trauma of Tifa's death would probably make Cloud more aware of what it would be like to lose Aerith, but there would be the added dimension that Aerith would still believe that sacrificing her own life is the only way to save the Planet. Cloud would be in the same position as Tidus in that respect - find another way to save the Planet, or he will lose Aerith, too.

Since the whole idea of the Lifestream Event was to confirm that Cloud had been born in Nibelheim rather than being one of Hojo's experiments, and that Tifa could confirm whether or not his memories of Nibelheim were accurate, I think the situation would have been changed somewhat. Rather than confirming Cloud's memories of Nibelheim like Tifa did, I think Aerith would take a different approach. Aerith knew Cloud and understood Cloud better than anyone, and it could be that Aerith knew what had really happened during the Nibelheim incident rather than anything about his childhood. For example, perhaps Aerith had read some letters of Zack's at his parent's place in Gongaga revealing that Zack was going to Nibelheim and why. Perhaps Zack's parents had known about Zack's death somehow, but they didn't know about Cloud, and revealed that Zack had died to Aerith. Because of the information Aerith had learned, she would be able to piece together the true story and know that some of Cloud's memories were false. Or... maybe Aerith was able to speak with Zack's spirit in the same way she was able to speak to Ifalna. If Aerith knew the truth about what had happened in Nibelheim from Zack's spirit, she would be able to help Cloud. :rolleyes:

I'm not sure what else would happen... I'm just speculating here on where the story would go. Maybe I'll have more thoughts on it later. :rolleyes:

Angel Tifa: Summoning holy didn't require her death

Lol. She's trying to say on her little Aerith shrine that Aerith wasn't going out to sacrifice herself, that she never knew she was going to die and didn't want to sacrifice herself x_x;

Anyway onto the point, I love Aerith's character more knowing that she sacrificed herself for the people she loved most, unlike Tifa's sacrifice of giving up the important mission because she just didn't care, Aerith's was admirable, and switching their roles (death...whatever XD) would just not seem right to me at all... x_x;

Oh, I'm not saying the game shouldn't have made it happen, or I don't understand why it happened or that I seriously believe Tifa should have died instead - oh no! I'm just saying that it needn't have happened within the context of the game, that's all. I really appreciate the game's themes of life, death and hope and how Aeris' death made those themes real. I'm just spinning ideas for the sake of it! :D I'm just saying that IF the game's canon could be obliterated and for some reason Aeris lived and Tifa died, how does everyone here think it would affect the later events? I'm just speculating for speculation's sake. :P

Those paragraphs I wrote on how it (Aeris living and Tifa dying) might end up happening in case someone was thinking "Yeah, it's all very well and good to wonder about how the game might've turned out but there's NO WAY that it'd ever happen". I was just offering a theory, really. If anyone has a better one, btw, post it! :D

But for me, FFVII is a game that's so rich with AU possibilities, I just wondered why in fanfiction so many writers choose to tackle a subject in such unoriginal ways.

Really? :( That's so sad! Well, there goes my theory down the drain, then... I strongly disagree with the idea (I hate that such a lovely, warm character so full of life has no other option, that she HAS to die, that there's no way it could've not happened), but if it's canon now, I guess I'll just have to wish things were different. Which I will. :P

Ahh, but if summoning Holy required her death, then Sephiroth would actually have to make sure she doesn't die! Otherwise all his plans are finished! ;) This was another part of my reasoning behind thinking that summoning Holy didn't require her death...if it did, why would Sephiroth want to kill her? He isn't a fool; he understands about the Black Materia and the consequences of summoning Meteor (also, to summon Meteor doesn't require a sacrifice, why should its equal in magical power be any different?) and knows what summoning the White Materia will do, which is why he realizes the urgency of stopping Aeris from doing so (and I think he always equated "stopping" with "killing").

And if, (let's just pretend) summoning Holy doesn't require her sacrifce, I don't see why Sephiroth would continue trying to kill her. She casts the spell, but like in the original game, he blocks it with his own powers and strength of will. So killing Aeris after she's summoned Holy wouldn't make any difference.

Lol, um, I actually believe that too (to a degree, anyway). I believe that Aeris didn't know that she was going to die and honestly thought that she was going to come back. But that certainly doesn't mean that she wasn't willing to sacrifice herself. Preffering to live rather than die doesn't make a person a coward. I think that Aeris was well aware of the risk she was taking, and was willing to give up her life for the Planet if she had to, but I believe that she genuinely thought that she'd be okay. I'm sure she never WANTED to sacrifce herself (after all, no-one wants to die so young), but if she felt it was the only way, she'd be more than willing to do it for the sake of everyone she loves. I just don't think she knew she was going to die. I think she knew it was possible and was ready for it if it had to happen, but never really believed it would (I've got more to say on this, but there's a whole other thread for that, I'll post there later). But again, this doesn't make her a coward in any way, and neither does it take away from her death. It just makes her the optimistic and forward-looking character we all know and love. ^_^

I don't think that Tifa giving up the mission was selfish - I don't think it was the right decision when the fate of the Planet relies on your victory, but she was in a terrible position. She loves Cloud very much, and she realizes now that she does believe in him and has faith in their memories. Also, it's killing her seeing him like this, she doesn't want to abandon him, she feels responsible for the state he's in, she feels guilty about concealing the truth from him, for not supporting him when he needed her the most, and for doubting him. She couldn't carry on fighting knowing he was suffering and alone. She has a choice to make between Cloud and the Planet and she chooses Cloud. While I don't think it was exactly the best decision, I admire her for it anyway. She's only human, afer all. I can't safely say that I would've done differently at that point. Despite what she hid from him before, I felt that her devotion to him was very moving.

But staying on topic: can anyone imagine what the ENDING would've been like if Aeris was still alive? Dramatically different, I believe! Hmm...must think on this one... :unsure:

Oh, I agree with you... I don't like it, either. I see too many problems and contradications within the story for it to be that way, and I think it makes her death even more painful if it wasn't necessary for her to die. From what Vilaeth says, however, it looks like that's what they intended... unfortunately. :(

Okay... fair enough. :rolleyes:

Well, that's one of the reasons I've always wondered whether it was really necessary for her to die in order for Holy to be summoned. I mean, Sephiroth even waited until Aerith had finished bonding the white materia to humanity and whatever prayer was necessary to summon Holy. Sephiroth knew she was headed to the Forgotten City - he was in Cloud's dream. Why not kill her before Cloud's party got there and before she had a chance to complete the ritual? If her death was necessary, it seems that Sephiroth would have killed her before she completed the ritual. (I assume there was some sort of ritual and/or prayer necessary to bond Humanity with the white materia and for summoning Holy. I doubt you just die and bingo! it appears. :lol:)

At any rate, why wait to kill her? The only thing I can imagine is that Sephiroth waited to kill her in front of Cloud for the purpose of revenge. Cloud was the youngster who stabbed him through the stomach and threw him into the Lifestream with no Jenova cells in him at the time. In a sense, that was a humiliation to the Great Sephiroth. Killing the woman Cloud loved would have been as great a revenge as forcing Cloud to hand over the black materia. Was Sephiroth's motive in doing these things revenge? :unsure:

I completely agree about the problems and contradictions. The way I came to believe that Holy didn't need her death in order to be cast was through re-playing the game, and coming to that conclusion through what we see in it. And while I think it's terribly tragic that Aeris could have lived, but died, I find much more horrible to think that there was never a choice or an alternative, that she always HAD to die. But if that's what Square intended... :(

Lol, I agree! I mean, otherwise Holy would've appeared when Ifalna died, wouldn't it? I definitely think that there was some sort of spiritual/ritualistic element to summoning Holy, but that to me gives more evidence that her death wasn't required. If to reach the Planet means talking to the Planet, being able to deeply communicate with it and ask for help, then that's why she would have gone to the City of the Ancients. It's a sacred place of the Cetra, and the Planet's presence there is stronger and clearer than almost anywhere else. Aeris always said that the Planet was full of people and noisy, didn't she? So I assume at the City of the Ancients, she could communicate with the Planet clearly and without any interference. If all she needed to do was recite an incantation and die, couldn't she have done that anywhere?

About Sephiroth - I thought that this ought to be an interesting enough topic to start a new thread on, so my ideas/speculation on why he waited have been moved to here. :D

Hmm...that's interesting. However, I don't think that it would be a simple as just replacing Tifa with Aerith, since the scenes were written for Tifa! Like the execution, as you said, Tifa was involved in the bombing and so they ordered the execution of herself and Barret. But Aerith would probably be back in some Shinra lab, and then where would we be? ;-; And the lifestream scene would probably be the most difficult to rewrite. Since Tifa was a part of Cloud's childhood and was there five years ago, she helped steer him in the right direction. The lie seems to have started when he thinks he returned as a Soldier, but Tifa knew this wasn't the case. Although this was actually Zack, and Aerith knew Zack, how would she know he was supposed to be there, at that time, instead of Cloud? Like everyone else, she was told that Cloud was the Solider on that mission (and if she knew it was Zack, why would she not bring this up to Cloud at Kalm?). Although she can communicate with the lifestream, I'm not sure how that would help, unless she somehow spoke to Tifa through the lifestream...lol, it's just very hard for me to imagine that scene without Tifa. Maybe if Aerith was rewritten somehow as being in his past at one point, it would help a bit more.

The ending...would really have to be reworked. Since Holy backfired, wasn't it Aerith that called up the lifestream to save the Planet? I'm not too sure if this was something she could only do when she was dead...I mean before she communicated with the Lifestream, but never controlled it on that level.

Ah, the highwind scene...instead, would it have been a confession of love between Cloud and Aerith? Or would she have taken him somewhere else (lol, I can imagine Aerith running around with Cloud all over the Planet the last night for the date of his life XD).

Ah! My head hurts trying to think about it. :lol: But I just think FF7 would have really have to work out some kinks to make the story work out if Aerith had lived.

And, going even further, what would be her role in AC if she had lived?

*cough* You do mean it was Tifa's unreciprocated confession to Cloud, and not confessions between the characters don't you? :P

But my point is exactly that - that these scenes would have to work out differently. Resorting to changing Aeris' character (basically making her another version of Tifa???) isn't really an option. How could Aeris, as she is in the game, help Cloud in that situation? Maybe she can't, maybe she'd have to go about it another way...

Aww, wouldn't it be adorable if that happened? That's another great pro-C/A point, nekokilala! With Tifa, he had a serious and sombre discussion under the Highwind that Cloud wasn't really involved in and that never led to anything. But with Aeris, I could definitely see her going on a joyride with him and actually spending their last night actually having fun! :lol:

Harsh, but true. I'm not seeing any romantic love coming off of Cloud in that scene... :P

But I do like to think that what happened in this scene is that they understood each other at last (the scene is called "Understanding", after all), and became closer as friends. All through the game they claimed to be friends without being that close and I think it's in this scene that they actually put the past behind them and establish a proper friendship at last. I may not like Cloud and Tifa as a couple, but I love the idea of them as close friends. ^_^

I think you misunderstood, lol. I meant rather than the bonding scene with Cloud and Tifa (like Hyper said--friendship wise), would it have actually been a love scene with Cloud and Aerith. XD or maybe I phrased it wrong, ahah. In any case, that's what I meant.

I've never believed that Cloud was Zack during Disk One. You can read more about that here: Cloud is not Zack I think you'd have a hard time convincing anyone in this forum that Cloud thought he was Zack in Disk One. It's just wishful thinking by the Cloti's. :lol:

I agree that the Lifestream Event would have to be changed - but the only thing that would need changing is how Aerith knew that Cloud was really born in Nibelheim. It'd be easy to write the story so that Aerith grew up in the same town as Cloud. However, the creators could also do something like Aerith having flashbacks of Cloud's past as they fall into the Lifestream together, or the spirits of the Lifestream could communicate the truth to Aerith. If Zack's spirit made an appearance, it would also be a perfect opportunity to clarify that Aerith does not think Cloud is Zack, that Cloud does not think he is Zack, and that Aerith was over her feelings for Zack by the time she met Cloud.

Yes, but then she would be Tifa. And we already know how the Lifestream event worked out with Tifa! :lol: What I'm wondering is how it would've worked out with Aeris...

Amen to that, Anastar. I hate it when the C/Ters resort to using this argument to support their claim that Cloud and Aeris never really knew each other or that their attraction was solely based on Zack's influence. Cloud is nothing like Zack. He's absorbed some of his memories, taken on his persona (the persona of the tough, succesful SOLDIER) and his mannerisms but not his personality. Their personalities are very unalike and after looking a little deeper, Aeris can recognise this straight off the bat.

He doesn't believe that he is Zack. He doesn't call himself Zack, doesn't believe he was born and raised in Gongaga, and certainly doesn't think that he and Aeris have already had a relationship! Lol, it'd actually be a really funny scene if that was the case...

Aeris: Would you like a flower?
Cloud: Hey! Aeris!
Aeris: Excuse me?
Cloud: Long time no see, huh? Man, you look great these days. The years've been kind, Aeris. Really kind.
Aeris: Err, what are you talking about? Who are you?
Cloud: Aw, c'mon! You can't have forgotten all about me, right? I thought we had something, baby!
Aeris: ???
Cloud: Is this all cause you're still mad at me for taking off like that?
Aeris: Look, I don't know who you think you are, but -
Cloud: It's Zack! From five years ago! Remember! We went out!
Aeris: You're...Zack?
Cloud: Yeah!
Aeris: Err...no you're not.
Cloud: What? You don't recognise me? I can't believe it! We used to be really close!
Aeris: ::getting out her pepper-spray::

:lol:

Furthermore, if Cloud is Zack and Aeris loves the Zack-in-Cloud, then so does Tifa! Because she falls in love with him before the Lifestream event, while he's apparently Zack! You'd think people would think through their own theories!

What a great idea! I'd love to see something like that happen!

I'm sick of people going on about Aeris being in love with Zack. While I think that Aeris and Zack were closer than Aeris let on, and she was genuinely and deeply hurt after he never came back (after all, I can't see her as just having a casual fling with him), she still got over it. It's been five years, for crying out loud! And while the relationship meant a lot to her at the time, I think by the time she meets Cloud, she's over it. She takes a very "Oh well, it was fun while it lasted" kind-of attitude, and I think she makes it clear that she thought of it as the type of relationship that runs its course, anyway. She only gets upset in Gongaga because she hears that he's missing and that makes her feel concerned, not out of tragic love for him. She still cares, but it's not love. Besides, she's Aeris. She isn't going to mope and cry away five years of her life for a guy who didn't feel emotionally obliged to see how she was doing five years later (I'm not making an anti-Zack comment here, I'm just saying that he didn't expect that Aeris would want/need to see him again, so he wasn't obliged to go for any reason except needing a place to stay).

As it is in FFVII, it looks like not only is Aeris over Zack, but that Zack (before he died) was also over Aeris. They thought of each other, but in five years, they've both moved on and have other things going on in their lives.

(Warning: Quite possibly off topic)

Regarding the whole "Aerith having to die" thing, I'm not convinced. All evidence points ot the fact that she didn't have to die. I've never looked at the script and I've learned not to trust a stranger's translations too much (bad experiences with that, trust me).

Let me see if I can find a copy of the Japanese script...

Exactly... if Cloud was Zack before the Lifestream Event, then Tifa fell in love with Cloud while he was Zack, too. Tifa expresses her love for Cloud in the Mideel Hospital, which is before Cloud finds his "real self". Plus, after the Lifestream Event, there's only six non-optional interactions between Cloud and Tifa before the Highwind scene takes place. So if Aerith didn't know the real Cloud, then neither did Tifa.

Besides, Wilhelm found an excerpt in FFVII Dismantled where Aerith says that she likes Cloud more than Zack. ;)

Wilhelm already looked at the Japanese script for us, and it apparently also says that she needs to die in order for Holy to work. There are contradictions, however, so we're not sure. We were discussing that in this thread: http://s8.invisionfree.com/Cloud_x_Aerith/...wtopic=669&st=0

grah, again my poor phrasing. ^^;; I don't think that Cloud *was* Zack or anything, just that Cloud was placing himself where Zack was.

ooh, I like this idea! :D

I hope I don't sound stupid for saying this, but...what is Dismantled? :unsure:

It's a book containing interviews with different members of the team which created Final Fantasy VII. They expanded on certain scenes in FFVII by providing extra lines of dialogue that would clarify what was happening in those scenes. It's only available in Japanese, unfortunately. You can read more about it here: Final Fantasy VII Kaitai Shinsho (FFVII Dismantled)

Oh, that sounds so cool! Thank you for the link.