I don't know where this belongs exactly, but I was reading something and it kinda bothered me. It's kinda long. I wasn't sure where to put this, but if it goes somewhere else, please move it.

I remember reading somewhere that Nomura saying "Lets kill Aerith and bring out Tifa" was a false statement, but why're they saying it's true?! :cry: and where the hell are they finding all that 'Noruma information'?!

Wow this fan just made its own final fantasy. :D Let's say that Tifa and Rinoa may be alike physically but no way there's a Tifa in Rinoa. Haha, and I just remembered Nomura saying he doesn't like super deformed women. :rolleyes: And there's already an interview about Nomura killing Aerith and replacing Tifa, here. It's a CxA opinion site by the great FF_G and there are some bits of explanation about the interview I'm talking about. It helped me a lot when I'm in doubt. ^^

That essay is pretty old, I believe it was around before AC. I've never tried to rebut it personally, though. My first question would be: source plz? The essay is making a helluva lotta claims I've not seen being proven true, such as Tifa being Nomura's ideal woman. You can assume that's the case because Tifa and Rinoa share similar appearances (srsly, tho, only TWO characters and people already jump to such conclusions?), but that in no way makes it fact.

And without that one fact, the whole essay crumbles.

Some Clotis like to ignore that Nomura later clarified that the interview misquoted him (IIRC), and also that Tifa never replaced Aerith. I'm sure the actual quote will be found on FFG's site that Resha linked to.

On the other hand, you have Clotis like this essay's author who believe Nomura was "pressured" by the almighty Aerith fans to change his statement. So in their eyes, the "truth" is that Nomura simply replaced Aerith with Tifa, but later had to concoct some meaningful reason so he wouldn't be lynched by Aerith fans.

Although I don't like using new info on old essays, I can't help but say this-- if we're basing the LTD on Nomura, he's already said he won't choose for Cloud. There, LTD closed! :razz:

I always thought he was saying he doesn't like female video game characters-- just another way for him to squirm out of showing preference for Aerith or Tifa.

Nomura made a statement that he was misheard. And that he never made Tifa replace Aerith as the main heroine. He laughed afterwards. 0.o

So yeah, that claim is sadly outdated.

As for ideal woman, didn't Nomura say he has no interest in SD girls when he was asked whose his favorite FF7 female?

Isn't that an essay from Loveless?

Er...there were things in the game that weren't spelled out to the players, but according to Nomura, SE had left nothing hanging. He claims players only needed to look deeper to find the answers:

"I don't know if you could really say that FFVII had any unanswered questions to speak of," claims Nomura, taking what some of his fans [or detractors] might characterize as a slightly controversial stand. "We just created FFVII with the idea that we wouldn't just come out and tell people the answers. The answers are there, but no one is there to tell you where to look for them. We didn't leave anything hanging." Nomura, of course, had the advantage of the original game's scriptwriter sitting across the office to point out where to look. But, on the bright side, if Square had spelled everything out, there might not have been enough demand for a sequel like Advent Children. - Newtype USA, Oct. issue

Wow...where are the sources for these "facts"? So many assumptions these people are making. I've seen Nomura create all kinds of main characters. How do they know Cloud is an idealistic version of Nomura? Do they actually know Nomura personally or something? :blink:

I can't believe some of these players needed Nomura to spell out that Tifa was never the main heroine of FFVII. I thought it was clear as day, even before I ever played the game. Even after he corrected them, they still refuse to accept the truth. What is wrong with these people... :lmao:

None of Nomura's other main heroines look like Rinoa, but yes, we have to automatically assume Nomura's personal preference is Tifa and anyone else who even slightly resembles Rinoa.

Yus, and so Nomura must be unsatisfied with Aerith, Yuna, and Ashe since none of them look anything like Rinoa. Since he's obviously so unagreeable with them, how dare he turn all these characters into main female leads then?!1 :tard:

Also, in light of that, in Reunion Files Nomura seemed to be awfully happy about how "cute" Aerith turned out in the end. Hmmmmmmmm....but he has a prefrence for ordinary looking girls like Tifa...

I've seen this essay so many times...I'm just sick of reading about it, really...those CloTi's can claim whatever they want to..fact of the matter is that single Cloud is cannon, everything else is indeed fanon, and they are NOT Tetsuya Nomura, nor do they work directly or indirectly with anyone who has worked on the Compilation. They just continue to make asshats out of themselves and shame their favorite character.

I read this before and it made me laugh XD also How is Tetsuya Nomura anything like cloud. If I remember correctly Nomura states that Sora was his alter ego and in all aspect I don't think Sora is anything like Cloud except for the hair :P so why would it matter for him to make his ideal woman for some one else thats not like him or made to be like him. nuff said.

LOVELESS AHAHA.

EGM: Issue 196 October 2005

EGM: Are you like Cloud? All silent and mysterious?
Nomura: I'm not at all like that character. [laughs]

Loveless if full of crap - be careful around that site. XD;

Zelda:

For real? :lmao:
I'm so tempted to dedicate a special little siggy to Loveless and that pathetic essay.

Ooh, please do, HD! :lmao:

*Saves the quote* :devil: Thank you for that, Zelda!

Not true, this is literally a figment of someone's imagination. Of all the characters he created, the one that is closest to Nomura's heart is actually KH's Sora (hence his "I love Sora, but it's with a broken heart" quote). And Sora is nothing like Cloud attitudewise, or I'm being delusional again. 0.o;

You ARE being delusional...it's what the CloTi's have been saying about us all along...we may as well just lay down and accept that fact. Funniest thing is that we aren't seen grasping straws, trolling other boards, and flaming their members because we dont have anything left to go on....


Yep...we're delusional Anti-R...

and thanks for that quote, Zelda. I think I have that EGM...somewhere....

Considering how badly Cloud constnatly screws up in that game, is taken advanatge of, and is mocked by others, I wouldn't say he's an idealized version of anybody.

KK, when did he say this??? As far as I knew, he said he didn't intend Tifa to replace Aeris. And, Tifa wasn't even added to the game until later on. Cloud, Aeris, and Barret were the three character's the game originally started with.
The reason why they picked Aeris to die, (I read this is in EGM, I posted the whole conversation and interview they had somewhere around here...) because they couldn't kill off Cloud since he was the main character, if they decided to kill Barret it would just be too obvious, and so they decided Aeris.

Yet again, Nomura stated "I NEVER INTENDED TIFA TO REPLACE AERIS."

O_o. Yeah, that whole "Nomura created Tifa to be Cloud's ideal woman" is a little rabid speaking there. First of all, if Cloud was seeking an "ideal" woman such as Tifa, he'd look for qualities in a girl he liked. What qualities in Tifa did Cloud like?? Aeris had the "ideal" qualities Cloud was looking for. For her emotional stability and up-right attitude. Tifa didn't exactly have "emotion" strength. She was constantly leaning on Cloud for emotional support. Cloud is the most unstable person in the emotional department.
Secondly, have you noticed how different Squall and Rinoa were?? Squall was quiet, up-tight, and didn't really care much about anymore. On the other hand, Rinoa was a fun, peppy, loving person. Their personalities are almost completely opposite. Alot like Aeris's and Cloud personality, eh? Cloud was cold and up-tight, while Aeris was happy and caring.
Squall and Cloud show many similiaries, but Rinoa and Tifa??? O.o. Rinoa was a hyper, optomistic, peppy person. If Rinoa is to be compared to ANYONE, it would Aeris. Her and Rinoa shared the most similarities when it came to personalities. They both posessed the ability to help open people up emotionally.

When did he say he liked Long haired busty woman more?? And, Rinoa wasn't busty. Where do you keep getting these damn "similiarities between Rinoa and Tifa" crap. Right now, all your speaking by is your rabid mind...>__<

And, CAN'T FORGET, the Yoshitaka Amano art. Funny, how they made the art of all the Final Fantasy couples, and they even had the art of Cloud and Aeris. None of Cloud and Tifa. They had Squall and Rinoa, Zidane and Garnet, Tidus and Yuna.... but no Cloud and Tifa. ^^ Awww...

http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/art.shtml

............ can I please have the words he said?? When did he state this?? Yep, All the answer's point to Tifa. She was the replacement of Aeris. Aeris was getting to old and useless, as well as not NEARLY as pleasing to the eye as Tifa... But, screw the fact he said he didn't intend Tifa to replace Aeris...we don't need that. ^^ AC proves that even though Aeris is dead, she can STILL manage to help out her friends and Cloud... and the theme of Final Fantasy Seven was "Life".

Hehe, maybe because it IS a false statement. And, maybe you heard the whole "NOMURA WANTED AERIS DEAD, TIFA IS TEH OFFICAL FEMALE ROLE" from a rabid who went a little over-board. Just a thought....

A little copy and paste magic from my LT page ('cuz I felt like it)... :lol:\\

Rabid CloTi BS: "It was Nomura's idea to kill off Aerith, because he didn't like her character, and put in Tifa as the main heroine."

What started this idea? An interview with Nomura in which he stated this:

"Acually, we had only Aerith at the beginning, and Tifa did not exist. But on a Sunday evening, I phoned the director Mr. Kitase and suggested, 'Let's kill Aerith and put in Tifa' (laughs). So, now we have two heroines, and we have an event where one of them dies."

First of all, Nomura never said anything about not liking Aerith's character and he sure never said anything about Tifa taking her place in Cloud's life. Secondly, this entire interview was a joke. Yep, you heard me, a joke. An interview with Game Maestro cleared it all up...

Interviewer: "FFVII had a story depicting death, what with the heroine being killed by [Cloud's] old foe, Sephiroth, wasn't it?"

Nomura: "Yeah. There are people who believe that I thought of the scenario where Aerith dies, and I've had some rather strong attacks from some (laughs). In a strategy guide interview the core part was left out, and only the joke bit ended up being published. I told them 'hey, that's not right', but it was too late. I suddenly became the villian of the FF staff (laughs)."

So, no, actually, it was not Nomura's idea to kill off Aerith. That entire original interview is pure crap and should be tossed out. You have the truth right here from Game Maestro, which was a series of interview books dealing with several people from successful video game companies. The Nomura interview appears in Vol. 4. In yet another interview (with both Nomura and Kitase), this time with EGM, Nomura tried yet again to set the record straight:

EGM: "We heard that the death of Aerith and the creation of Tifa both originated in a phone call between you two [Nomura and Kitase]...."

Nomura: "It's funny, some magazine ran that story, but only the beginning and ending of it. People think that I wanted to kill off Aerith and replace her with Tifa as the main character! [Laughs] The actual conversation between Mr. Kitase and myself was very, very long. Originally, there were only going to be three characters in the entire game: Cloud, Barret, and Aerith...."

Another thing of interest in the Nomura interview contained in Game Maestro is Nomura's explanation of Aerith's death and what they wanted to accomplish by it:

"To tell you the truth, FFVII's theme was 'life'. We had instructions from Mr. Sakaguchi saying, 'More than depicting life in the theme, you have to depict life and death. Anyhow you have to portray death.' With the death of a character, we wanted to have the player feel pain. So to do so, portraying the death of the heroine Aerith would be the most painful and important/heavy [on the feelings/emotions]. So, to portray death properly, it was decided that we would show Aerith's death."

So, it was Sakaguchi's idea to kill off a character, and he did not specify which one. That was decided later. It is interesting to see that they wanted to make the most of the death, a death that would affect the players and the characters the greatest... and they picked Aerith, the heroine of FFVII. So, basically, this just sunk one of the CloTis favorite arguments, that Nomura "hated Aerith" and "killed her off to get rid of her because she was weak" and that Nomura wanted to "sub Tifa in for Aerith to be Cloud's girlfriend". It is all nonsense and has been proven wrong. In fact, these interviews show just how important Aerith's death was meant to be, for all of you who missed that point. And they also show that Tifa was never meant to take Aerith's place as the heroine of the game OR as Cloud's love interest. In fact, Cloud and Aerith were a couple before Tifa was even created.

I also want to point out to all of you sick freaks that laugh when Aerith dies- you just missed the entire point of the game! The point of the game is life and death. Aerith's death was hugely important. It was meant to convey feelings of loss and pain. But, you totally missed that, didn't you? Way to go- you completely overlooked everything that the creators of FFVII were trying to express! Proud of yourself, are you? -_-+

I would also like to point out a quote from that interview with EGM...

EGM: "Which female character in FFVII is your personal favorite?"

Nomura: "[Laughs] I'm not really interested in any superdeformed females."

That is for all of you dumbasses who actually buy into all of that "self-insertion" bull. Tifa is not Nomura's favorite character. For those of you who haven't a clue what I am talking about... well, there exists an essay that claims that Nomura liked to place himself in the position of the heroes of the game and basically goes on to say that he contrived Tifa from a wet dream. This, therefore, makes CloTi canon. o_0 Yes, I know, it is completely absurd, not to mention lame and retarded. I never believed any of it to begin with, because it was just some flake making up nonsense. She had no proof whatsoever and made an ass out of herself making assumptions that were so far-fetched the other CloTis laughed at her. She went on to say that her "theory" was proved by the fact that all of the other heroines in the FF games to follow were just like Tifa. o_0 Huh??? Excuse me??? No, hon, they were just like Aerith. Hence, your "logic" blows up in your face. XD Want to know more about how the FF heroines from FFVIII, FFIX, and FFX were like Aerith?

* Final Fantasy VIII: Want to see Cloud and Aerith reinvented in another game? Then play FFVIII and take a look at Squall and Rinoa. This pairing is Cloud and Aerith remade. Squall and Rinoa give us a look into what might have happened if Aerith had not died
-Squall is the brooding, dark soldier with a mysterious past. He is very much of an introvert and a loner, never opening up to anyone. Sound familiar? It should, because he acts exactly like Cloud. He even has the same job-- he is a mercenary (Squall was hired to protect and help out Rinoa; Cloud was hired by Aerith to be her bodyguard). Heck, he even carries an oversized weapon and has Limit Breaks that are reminiscent of Cloud's. During the course of the game, Squall begins to open up to Rinoa, much in the same way Cloud opened up to Aerith and was able to laugh and cry. Squall's moment of greatest emotional breakdown was when he thought he had lost Rinoa, saying to her:

"(Rinoa... You feel so cold. Are you going to be like this forever?)... Isn't there anything I can do?! You were so full of life. Now you don't even make a sound. I want to hear your voice...."

Compare that to Cloud's speech at Aerith's death (the moment of Cloud's greatest show of emotion)::

"... Aerith. This can't be real!" "Aerith is gone. Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry... or get angry.... What about us? What are WE supposed to do? What about my pain? My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!"

-Rinoa is the cheerful, optimistic, and flirtatious daughter of a noted general. Just like Aerith, Rinoa is someone of importance, often referred to as "princess" (Aerith was the last of the Cetra, and the rightful heiress to the planet). I have heard CloTis attempt to compare Rinoa with Tifa. This is absolutely laughable, because Rinoa is nothing like Tifa. She has dark hair and eyes. That is the only way Rinoa resembles Tifa. In all other things, Rinoa is just like Aerith. Tifa was an introvert; Aerith and Rinoa are extroverts. Tifa could not express her feelings to Cloud; Aerith and Rinoa are outspoken and flirtatious with Cloud and Squall. Tifa was a physical fighter; Aerith and Rinoa are both mages. I am only scratching the surface here, too.

It is also interesting to note that Squall and Rinoa made their promise to each other in a flower field. They promised to be reunited there. And just who is associated with flowers, Tifa or Aerith? Aerith, of course! In fact, Aerith is shown meeting with Cloud in a field full of flowers in FFVII: Advent Children.

* Final Fantasy IX: Just like Cloud and Aerith are opposites, Zidane and Garnet are also opposites...

-Zidane is a cocky, flirtatious thief. Like Cloud, he has a mysterious past and later discovers that he is, in fact, an experiment. Zidane also has a polar opposite in the game, the silver-haired villain, Kuja. Sounds rather like Cloud and his polar opposite, the silver-haired Sephiroth, does it not? Zidane is a physical fighter, just like Cloud and Squall.

-Garnet/Dagger is a princess, someone of great importance, just like Aerith and Rinoa. She is one of the last of her kind, one of a mysterious race known as Summoners (Aerith was the last of the Cetra, another mysterious race). Garnet is quiet, yet strong-willed, a complete opposite of Zidane. She is also a princess while Zidane is, let's face it, a criminal. How opposite can you get??? Garnet is also a white mage, weak physically, but strong in mind and magic.

* Final Fantasy X: Tidus and Yuna are also opposites; Tidus's name/celestial objects refer to the sun while Yuna's name/celestial objects refer to the moon. Not only that, but their story is directly parallel to that of Cloud and Aerith...

-Tidus is an outspoken, cocky blitzball star who, like all FF heroes, has a mysterious past. He also becomes a Guardian for Yuna during her pilgrimage, vowing to protect her from her fate.

-Yuna is the daughter of a famous man, High Summoner Braska. Like Aerith, and all of the female FF heroines before her, she is someone of great importance. She is also a white mage and a Summoner, someone with unusual powers, just like Aerith (a Cetra), Rinoa (a Sorceress), and Garnet (also a Summoner). Yuna is traveling on a pilgrimage with her Guardians to Zanarkand, where she will obtain the Final Aeon. We later discover that Yuna will die upon summoning the Final Aeon. And yet she bravely moves forward, with the good of the world in mind. Sound familiar? Aerith willingly sacrificed herself for the good of the planet in FFVII.

It is only later in the game that Yuna realizes the truth about Tidus. He is merely a dream, to be lost when she destroys the enemy. And yet Yuna bravely presses on selflessly, much the way Aerith did in FFVII. Even when Tidus is lost to Yuna, she does not stop loving him and she does not stop looking for a way to be with him. Just like Cloud, at the end of FFVII, who expresses his desire to be reunited with Aerith, Yuna searches for a way to be with Tidus once again. Again, we see the idea of love beyond death being presented. CloTis may mock this, but it is something Square clearly believes in. It is amusing for me to see so many CloTis that are fans of TidusxYuna, but not of CloudxAerith. Hellooooo???? These two pairings are the same!

* Final Fantasy X-2: In this game, we see a continuation of Yuna's search for Tidus. Although he is gone, she continues to love him, hold his memory dear, and search for a way to be reunited with him. Also, in this game, we see another story that supports love beyond death. Shuyin and Lenne, while dead, still love one another, although they haven't seen each other for a thousand years. They are soul mates and their spirits persist in Spira, searching for one another. This is what love means, people. Loving someone forever is something that a lot of CloudxTifa fans are unable to comprehend. Their idea of love is shallow, at best. If you cannot grasp the true meaning of love, as demonstrated by CloudxAerith, TidusxYuna, and ShuyinxLenne, then you are a very sad person, indeed, and have clearly never experienced true love.

* FFVII: Dirge of Cerberus: This game takes place one year after the events of Advent Children (therefore, 3 years after the events of FFVII). It focuses on Vincent as the main character and sheds light on his painful past and his love for Lucrecia, the beautiful scientist who gave birth to Sephiroth. The similarities between VincentxLucrecia and CloudxAerith are astounding in this game...

- Vincent Valentine is an ex-member of the Turks, an elite band of gunmen loyal to Shinra (strikingly similar to Cloud, who was previously employed by Shinra). Vincent is quiet, withdrawn, and melancholy. His personality is, in fact, very much like Cloud's and the creators of FF have remarked about this on more than one occasion. Vincent, like Cloud, was also experimented-upon by Hojo, but to a greater degree. Vincent believes that his greatest sin is that he could not save Lucrecia, the woman he loved. Cloud also believes his greatest sin is that he could not save Aerith, the woman he loved. In fact, Cloud asks Vincent in AC if sins could be forgiven, showing the similarities between their "sins". I believe Cloud felt he could open up to Vincent about his guilt because Vincent would understand.

- Lucrecia Crescent is a beautiful and brilliant scientist employed by Shinra. Not only does she physically resemble Aerith with her chestnut hair tied back with a ribbon and her fluffy bangs, but her personality is very much like Aerith. Cheerful, sweet, and outgoing, Lucrecia often likes to tease Vincent, just as Aerith often liked to tease Cloud. Lucrecia even has Aerith's cute pose of bending forward to peer up into people's faces. Lucrecia is also portrayed as being surrounded by white light in the final FMV, just as Aerith is often portrayed surrounded by light. Lucrecia and Aerith were both experimented upon by Hojo. And Lucrecia and Aerith both took on dangerous tasks (Lucrecia going forward with the experiments on herself and Aerith going to the Forgotten Capital to pray for Holy, where she was sure to meet Sephiroth). Also, neither Lucrecia nor Aerith ever blamed Vincent or Cloud for what happened to them, even though Vincent and Cloud blamed themselves.

The similarities between Vincrecia and ClAeris are unbelievable, don't you think? And I haven't even finished letting you in on all the many ways these two pairings are alike! More similarities: Vincent was Lucrecia's bodyguard, just as Cloud was Aerith's bodyguard. Vincent and Lucrecia share a scene in a flower field, just as Cloud and Aerith share scenes together in a flower field. Vincent hangs around in Lucrecia's cave, just as Cloud hangs around in Aerith's church. Vincent can hear/see Lucrecia, just as Cloud can hear/see Aerith. Also, we see yet another couple that portrays a love that endures time, separation, and even death. So we have CloudxAerith, TidusxYuna, ShuyinxLenne, and now VincentxLucrecia.

So, who does Tifa resemble? In FFVIII, it would definitely be Quistis. Like Tifa, Quistis grew up with the main hero. Quistis also develops feelings for Squall, the same way Tifa develops feelings for Cloud. However, the hero does not reciprocate their feelings. Squall loves Rinoa and does not reciprocate the feelings of Quistis, his "childhood friend". Cloud loves Aerith and does not reciprocate the feelings of Tifa, his "childhood friend".

In FFIX, Freya is most like Tifa. She is an "old friend" of Zidane's, like Tifa was an "old friend" of Cloud's. Freya is also physically strong, like Tifa. Neither of these females are strong with magic.

In FFX, Lulu is a remade Tifa. She has long dark hair, wears black, has reddish-brown eyes, and is... "well endowed", if you get my drift. She has a painful past (she has lost people she cared about, like Tifa), is very pessimistic, and has a difficult time letting others see her softer side, just like Tifa. She is also a supportive friend to Tidus, like Tifa supports Cloud.
In fact, there is some optional dialogue in FFX where you can actually have Tidus say he likes Lulu more than Yuna. Does this change who the canon couple is? Nope! Also, based on what options you chose for Tidus to say, he can ride to Macalania Temple with either Rikku or Lulu (much like the dating mechanism in FFVII and just as pointless- it was all added to increase replay value). If he rides with Rikku, she hugs him (much the same way Yuffie kissed Cloud on their "date"- and one more indication that anyone else besides Aerith, the default for the date, was just there for the player's amusement). Does this change who the canon couple is? Again, no.

Even Yuffie has corresponding characters that are like her-- hyperactive, optimistic, and cheerful. These would be Selphie (FFVIII), Eiko (FFIX), and Rikku (FFX, FFX-2).

While I can no longer find the source, I destinctly remembering reading an intreview saying that at first even after adding hr, Tifa was more of a side character and was compared to Vincent and Yuffie.

Bwahaha, "Self-Insertion"...bwahahaha :lmao: This essay always makes me giggle

Actually...

Self Insertion is exactly the right word for what's going on in this argument.

But it's not Nomura doing the Self Insertion.

It's the individual CloTis themselves, many of whom are teenage or young adult males who find Tifa's appearance to be their wet dream come true.

And they think, "Well, hell, if I were Cloud I'd be boning her every 5 seconds on the second."

They keep forgetting they're NOT Cloud, though.

My pleasure to provide the quote, guys! :huggle:

AHAHA. DO IT. I have been so tempted to email that little quote to Loveless.

Quoted. For. Truth.

*:lmao: @ Sefie*

Exactly, Alex. Either that or it is the girls associating themselves with Tifa because of some reason or another that they hate Aerith. :rolleyes: And so they want Tifa [themselves] to get Cloud, because they have a thing for him.

I remember Cloud_Is_My_Lover getting ridiculously defensive about any negative comments toward Tifa, almost as if they were personal comments. I can't help but think (in part due to her name), that she was a Cloud fangirl who believed herself to be Tifa. Too bad she chose to be the girl described now as his mother. :lmao:

Hmm... it is one thing to have a crush on a fictional character. But to actually be in love with them to the point that you have to project yourself into their love interest and actually think you are that character? Yep, those girls need to be checked into the mental ward.