For years, we've been trying to work with conjecture and making the most innocuous detail seem the most important thing.

In short, we were trying so hard to get proof from the movie that we forgot Marlene's exposition.

The language of Marlene's exposition is too complex for someone her age to understand. Somebody had to have told her.

Now, here's the important parts of that monologue for our purposes.

"For every battle, there was sadness."

*** "Someone I love returned to the Lifestream too." ***
It is important to note this line is PRESENT TENSE. Not past tense. PRESENT TENSE.

"That's what they told me two years ago."

Okay. Now. Marlene spoke the line...but who told her what to say?

Barret? No, nobody Barret loved died in the war.

How about Tifa? No, Tifa's love is very much alive.

Well, there's only 3 adults in the house, and that leaves Cloud.

Is there evidence that Cloud might, and even would reveal his feelings to Marlene?

Indeed there is. In FF7, you have the option of saying 'I hope so' when Marlene asks if Aerith likes you. Cloud is not generally open with his feelings, but he will, apparently, tell a little girl what he feels.

Now. In an LTD, of course, there are two possible love interests for Cloud. Aerith and Tifa.

Of the two of them, Aerith is dead, Tifa is not. Therefore, the line about 'Someone I love returned to the lifestream too' could not possibly refer to Tifa.

Further supporting this idea, the line is spoken during the scene where Cloud lays Aerith to rest with his own two arms.

How on earth did we miss the movie FLAT OUT FREAKING SAYING 'someone I love returned to the lifestream too'. :cleris:

Well, I don't really remember the entire monologue. Can someone post the whole thing, so I can see it all in context? :gift:

First of all...

From looking up the advent children scripts, you won't want to copy those down. Those scripts seem to have been written by CloTis who like putting down 'someone I liked' or 'someone I cared for' instead of 'someone I love'

You'll have to copy the whole thing down, written word for word, as it appears in the movie. What Marlene actually SAYS, not what the scripts say.

I found a direct English transcript here

Thanks. I'll repost the whole narration from that site.

Marlene's Narroration: The Lifestream. That's what we call the river of life that circles our planet giving life to the world and everything in it. The Shinra electric power company discovered a way to use the Lifestream as an energy source. Because of Shinra's energy, we were able to live very comfortable lives. Wasn't that because we were taking away from the planet's life? A lot of people thought so. Shinra used their power to try and stop anybody who got in their way. Shinra had a special group of warriors called SOLDIER, and all of the SOLDIER had Jenova cells put inside of them. Jenova was a calamity that fell from the sky a long, long time ago and tried to destroy the planet.

Anyway, there was one SOLDIER named Sephiroth who was smarter than the rest. When he found out about the terrible expirements that made him, he began to hate Shinra, and then, over time, he began to hate everything.

Shinra and the people against them, Sephiroth, who hated the planet so much he wanted to make it go away, and the people who tried to stop him. ***There were a lot of battles. For every battle, there was more sadness. Someone I love went back to the Lifestream, too.*** And then it came - The chosen day. In the end, the planet itself had to make the battles gone(stop) for good. The planet used the Lifestream as a weapon. And when it burst out of the earth, all the fighting, all the grief and sadness, everything... was washed away.

Sadness was the price to see it end. It's been two years since they told me that.

Note the part between *** takes place while Aerith's death and laying to rest is being shown.

One note about that translation, though...in the movie, it's present tense love, not past tense 'loved'. And yes, some silly CloTi would pick it out if it were past tense and mention some nonsense about moving on, so keep that tense constant.

One of the points I'd like to make, though, is that Marlene's language seems far too complex for someone her age. Which is why I don't think she's speaking on her own.

She was relaying the information that (I'm presuming) Cloud had told her.
In a way, what she is saying could be interpreted in two different ways...

Cloud had told Marlene this, he had told Marlene that he loves Aerith or...

Marlene could have been relaying the information with a bit of her own bias mixed in, it's apparent that she was fond of Aerith, maybe she is referring to her own love for the fallen flower girl.

I prefer the former to the later :fangirl:

I don't think Marlene would refer to Aerith as 'someone I love' on her own. Marlene's a little girl, but she's not THAT close to Aerith. She'd refer to Barret that way, he's her father. But...not Aerith, I don't think.

I thought Marlene was just reffering to the line, "Sadness was the price to see it end". Hm. She does sound older than she should, but to be fair, most kids in RPGs act older than they are.

That's what I thought, too.

Anyways, I don't see why Marlene wouldn't refer to Aerith as someone she loves. I think Marlene really did love Aerith... and still does. :D

Hmmm...

To decide if that monologue is in character for Marlene, we'll have to do a comparitive analysis between this and her actual lines in the movie. Especially because, as I recall, the rest of her lines are more appropriate to a girl Marlene's age. None of the rest of her lines use such linguistics as we see here. While true RPG characters in general act older, what matters here is if the speech she gives seems unnatural in reference to the rest of her lines in the movie. If it does, then she's probably not speaking on her own.

Which makes a better argument for that whole speech being told to her...almost as if she's reciting from a textbook or a play.

On the other hand, the subtitles specifically put "sadness was the price to see it end" in quotes, while NOT quoting the rest of it. Expect the enemy to pounce on that.

On the OTHER other hand, the important lines of the monologue were spoken with the backdrop of Cloud laying Aerith to rest...which again argues in favor of her being told the story.

When she said it, the "someone I love went back to lifestream", she used 'watashi' right, and girls use watashi right? So.. I don't think it was said by Cloud. *sigh* :no: He would've used boku or ore..

From what I know, boys can use "watashi" in a formal sense.
Though I'm not sure about this instance anymore... :unsure:

Still, it's fun to think about the possibility that Cloud could have been the one who told Marlene that someone he loves returned to the lifestream. :fangirl:

Men can use it, Sephiroth uses it after he fell into the Lifestream and during AC. But Cloud doesn't. The way she speaks doesn't really match how Cloud speaks.

The original is in the past tense (私が大好きだった人, だった is the past tense of the copula だ).

Just curious, but...in what way does it not match Cloud?
I don't see how she has to match Cloud anyway. Couldn't she have spoken Cloud's words in her own "language"?

Not saying I'm a firm believer that these words came from Cloud...but I did think it was surprising Marlene would speak so highly of Aerith. I sort of expect that if she was ever going to say that about anyone, it'd be Tifa.

I see. More mistranslations. SE seriously needs to fire their translators. They're always misleading people, especially the people on this side of the LT.

"Watashi" is kind of a... sexless pronoun, in that men and women can both use it comfortably. What I'm surprised is that Marlene, at 6 years old, would use "watashi" since it seems a bit old/formal for her (then again, she was talking about a serious event, plus she seems mature for her age). But that could be the norm for RPG children, for all I know.

Not too surprising for me, since barely a day after Marlene meets Aerith, she already supports Cloud getting together with her (and has that Tifa-like ability to "sense" Aerith at the end of the game as well as AC). I suppose she could've been infected by Aerith's enthusiasm at that time, but I'd like to think Aerith just makes an awesome impression on children.

Well, I can see Marlene supporting Cloud and Aerith...but acutally loving her is...I dunno, something different. I just think it's odd that we hear that from her about Aerith, but nothing about Tifa who looks after her like a mother. As for Marlene being able to sense Aerith...well, the other children seem to be able to sense, communicate, and interact with her too. I don't think it necessarily means that they love her or anything like that though. I didn't think Tifa and Aerith loved each or were the best of friends either for that matter.

Well, they don't have to mutually exclusive: Marlene can love both women.

Marlene must love Tifa (it's something of a given, isn't it? Plus, she asks for Tifa immediately after being saved in AC), but perhaps it is a slow love that grew over several years. With Aerith, I imagine it was something fast but powerful, that resonated with her later on. There is also the likely possibility that Marlene hears stories about Aerith from Tifa and Barret, and grows to love the Aerith that is described.

As for other children-- the game didn't show Aerith interacting with a lot of children, but just their presence in the church and taking care of the flowers indicated, to me, that they must have shared a close relationship.

Perhaps "love" seems too strong? But "the person I really liked" doesn't seem to have as much oomph, does it? :P

Lynn:

You reminds me of that part in the original game:

Marlene: "Guess what? Guess what? Aerith was asking me lots of questions."
"Like what kind of person Cloud is. I bet she likes you, Cloud!"
Cloud:<choice> I don't know...
Marlene: Stupid!
Cloud:<choice>Let's hope so.
Marlene:(giggles)"I won't tell Tifa."

.... actually it doesn't seems like Marlene supports CXA to me, but more like she's teasing Cloud for that. But her "I won't tell Tifa" is really considerate. :luv:

Lynn:

I agree, and not only Marlene, I remember if you return to the Church after Aerith being captured by Shinra, you'll see two children taking care of Aerith's flowerbed; one of them is too young to give readable words while another says"I'm here to take care of them for the flower girl!"
And AC confirms us how Aerith is remembered among children, so IMO Marlene's "someone I loved..."in AC is closer to "someone WE love..." :heart: :aeris:

Of course...but still, if she was going to say that about anybody, I would have expected her to say that about Tifa or maybe even Cloud first. Just surprised me a bit, that's all.

I suppose anything is possible if we're going to talk about possibilities.

I dunno. I would think she should...but then again, there are children out there who don't love their real mothers. *shrugs*
In your opinion is it a given too that she loves Cloud, Yuffie, Cid, etc. then?

Good point. Official translations does have it as "liked", right?

Oh, I didn't mean she supported it like we do-- all passionately and stuff. Re-reading the dialogue, it seems like she's treating it very simply: if Aerith likes Cloud, Cloud must like her back! (Or he's stupid! :giggle: )

I just thought it was interesting, and speaks of Marlene's closeness to Aerith, that the writers had Marlene showing such preference for Aerith. It makes me think she was never THAT close to Tifa in the beginning of FFVII, and it's only through CoT and AC (when Tifa has grown up) that they learned to love like mother and daughter.

IMHO, I wouldn't call it "considerate" so much as Marlene treating it almost like... a game? A secret only she knows about Cloud that Tifa doesn't? She's 4-years old at the time, I don't know how much she would've picked up on the brewing LTD. :lol:

Yeah, I think a special relationship with children is just something Aerith's character "type" usually has (because children are always symbols of purity and innocence and not the spoiled little brats they really are). You know, those pure-hearted, kind young girls who love children and who are adored by children... All that's missing is some cheesy scene of Aerith teaching kids gardening. :P

Possibilities are all we have when it comes to Marlene, but I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's such a small relationship that the facts seem to suffice: Marlene likes/loves/is unusually fond of Aerith. How she got to feel that way is up to you to decide.

Yep, to differing degrees. Barret's the top of the list, followed by Cloud and Denzel. We never see how she interacts with the rest, but considering how familiar she was with freakishclaw!Vincent, I imagine she's close enough to the rest of AVALANCHE.

I think if there's nothing specifically showing Marlene is scared of AVALACHE, it's a given that she's at least friendly with them. Trying to find some conflict in her relationships just seems... needless? Because it's not like it makes any contribution to the story.

I can't remember what the official translation is. It probably is "liked" because "love" sounds too serious for a 6-year old. But as far as how Marlene feels about Aerith, "love" and "like" are both the same thing, IMHO.

I didn't pounce on this earlier. :o I don't think I've seen you post much about Aerith and Tifa's relationship so... elaborate plz?

...yeah, I can't recall if I have or haven't.
Anyhow, as far as their relationship goes, I pretty much saw it as described in CoT. I think that a friendship was beginning to bloom, and that if Aerith had not died, they would have become friends of some kind eventually. Not sure I can really put my thoughts into words, but their relationship, IMHO, is based more on the idea that they both care about the same man and have similar goals(as in wanting to see Sephiroth stopped). Maybe "close companions" might be the right idea? I don't think they actually ever connected with one another on that really personal level...not to the point where I felt they would be comfy enough to do anything and everything for one another. I guess I didn't think they were BFF. IMO, their understanding of one another is more likely due to Cloud and knowing they both love him rather than directly understanding one another. The things they did that seemed to be for one another, I think, might be more-so because of Cloud. Anyhow, yes, I think Aerith is closer to Tifa than...let's say...Barret. She's close to Tifa, but not close enough that I can say they loved one another. I thought AC showed that well...that Tifa, out of the rest of Avalanche, was able to kind of sense her...but they weren't close enough that she could really feel Aerith, hear her, or see her the way Cloud could.

As far as Marlene goes...I definitely believe she was very fond of Aerith and liked her a lot. I just think "loved" is too strong coming from her...especially considering that she didn't really get to hang out with Aerith or to truly know her. Even if she heard great stories about Aerith from Tifa, Cloud, or Barret...I don't really know if real love could blossom out of that...perhaps admiration, like, fondness, or something in that field. As I was saying though, if it was "liked" and not "loved", then it would make complete sense. I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Well...the word spoken in script is love, so...

In the Japanese script, the word may have been less strong, but...well...

The word spoken out loud in English IS in fact love.

How could I have missed this!
Ultimate proof! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
*improved defense to Clorith on fanfiction.net*

Here's my two cents on this:

I think I agree with Angelalex with this one. You still have to consider the fact that Marlene wasn't with AVALANCHE throughout most of their journey so in order for her to know about the majority of things that happened, chances are someone told her about them. Her adoptive father Barret may have been the one who told her about it but I just have this gut feeling that it was Cloud that told her about it (which is not so farfetched since people, even the overly emotional ones. tend to open up to children not to mention Marlene does resemble AERIS A LOT :aeris: )

The bit where marlene says "someone I love returned to the lifestream too". Well I think it implies to both her and Cloud's feelings (although i think it's more on Cloud's feelings than anything)

Well if anyone is qualified to tell marlene stories about Aeris than it would probably have been Cloud. :cloud:

Clotis got PWNED!

seriously I really never noticed this, I wonder if the japanese fans noticed it?

All I can say for this is that it doesn't get changed in the next AC: Advent Children Complete. Nomura said it himself that it is meant as a replacement of the original.

I think Marlene was referring to the "Sadness was the price to pay" line as well.

When you think about it, nobody would need to tell her about Avalanche, Sephiroth, Jenova, or how the world was saved through the lifestream. She already knew all of that, so it wouldn't really make much sense if she was relaying exactly word for word what Cloud said. It's not like only Avalanche knew everything that happened. It's called the "Jenova War"... I would think everyone on the planet(Or at least the survivors of Midgar) would be aware of this war and the details of what happened. Not to mention that Marlene saw first hand out of a window in Kalm how the planet was saved. So I think the events she stated at the beginning would be common knowledge for everyone in Edge that were involved in evacuating Midgar.

And I do think she loved Aeris. It may not have been a very long time in the game when she went to Aeris' house, but there could have been more than enough time for her to develop close feelings for Aeris. Obviously they talked for a bit since she admits to Aeris asking questions about Cloud. I also had the impression that Aeris was really good with children. Some kids from the slums even volunteer to take care of the flowers in the church while shes away. And even in AC, Marlene rushed over to the flowers when she entered the church, and later, is seen tending to them.(Before Loz entered) You also have to remember that even after Aeris is saved from ShinRa HQ, Marlene stayed at Elmyra's house, so just by living at the same house as Aeris and being taken care of by the same person that took care of Aeris may be enough to feel closer to that person as well.

Plus, Aeris seems to be the type of person you could easily love. =P

Well actually i remember this very much but i thought it was marlene saying it, you know, like she was very fond of Aerith and such, but thats just me i guess :( I mean, she was talking to aerith before in FFVII so she must have known her even a little.

But now that i think about it, after she says "Its been two years since they told me that" kinda says that its not her feelings she's venting, its someone else. Which kinda raises the question who said who, because they could have all easily said it, but the picture showing up of aerith and cloud while she said could be a hint.

Actually guys Marlene does say "Love" i am 100% sure.
here is a link to the beginning of the movie..............
"someone I love went back to the lifestream too"


"Someone I love...."

Actually In Japan people don't say "love" the only time you say "love" is when you are alone with that person.
But it would make sense if Cloud did say that to marlene because Marlene's mother died and went back to the planet as well .so Cloud saying "someone I love went back to the lifestream too" is appropriate,if he said it at all to her that is.(ps I completely think he did say that to marlene)
So this whole conversation can actually be proven right.
Marlene knows Aerith so ofcourse when Cloud tells Marlene that Aerith is dead he would put it in sweet words that show her she's not alone .and that not only did she lose someone dear but so did he.
But yet again tseng*not sure how to spell his name* could have told marlene and Elmyra that Aerith is dead.But I think in maiden who travels the planet it says Cloud told Elmyra.....BUT im not sure I think Im wrong about that lol

My bad its in CoT-Woot it is Cloud that tells Marlene <33333

Yes! in the english version of the DVD. Marlene definitely says Love <3 Now all we need is for someone to clear up who said what to whom xD

Well in CoT it said Cloud told Elmyra what happened to Aerith ,so wouldn't he tell Marlene also????

I think she is only refering to herself about the "Someone i loved went back to the lifestream too." line.Marlene seemed to really like Aerith in the game and i think this has become love to the movie.She even refers to her as a "sister".
Plus guys don't forget all this stuff with Marlene being more matture in the beginning has to do with the movie's techniques and such stuff.A child's voice was probably the best to explain the situation for the last two years and get the viewer understand better of what has to come and plus the movie has to do with the children. :fish:

Ok...I got to the right thread!! Hooray for me!! Hi Angela!! I see you also want to debate on the line thing...well...here's my statement. (I reposted it cos I didnt know there's already a thread for it here... :lmao: ) This is about the 'I' thing...

Guess what, Marlene actually is saying LOVED not LOVE. I have an official copy of the script released with the Limited Edition Collector's Set of Advent Children so it wasn't written by Clotis. In the script she says LOVED (past tense). However, this does not neccessarily mean that she wasn't relaying a message that Cloud told her.

That is correct. But when the Japanese version was translated to English, Marlene said "Someone I LOVE went back to the Lifestream, too." That is the exact line she said in AC. :)

I have that same script. However, I can't remember if I read it on here or somewhere else saying that this script is a prototype, and that they changed a lot of stuff in it to get the end result. Either way, while the script reads "loved," I hear "love" everytime I re-watch that part of Marlene's monologue. :unsure:

It really sounds like she's saying "love" to me. :fish:

And I think Marlene loved Aerith as well, and she's speaking for herself here, not repeating what someone told her.

I'm gonna use the "i" word here and say I think it's all up to interpretation. *bricked*

It never occured to me that Marlene could be re-telling the story from the perspective of the person that told it to her (Cloud, most likely), but it is an interesting theory. :)

I think she's re-telling the story cause of the phrase, "Its been two years since they told me that." -_-v

The first time I watched it, I always thought that Marlene was relating the story as it had been told to her, because even though Marlene is a bright child, some of the wording and phrases sound more like something an adult would say, plus some of the things are quite technical for a child to understand on their own, you know? But it's quite possible that when she says the part "Someone I love returned to the Lifestream too," she's actually repeating what Cloud said.

Regarding Marlene's relationship with Aerith, it's true that they did not have much time with each other, but Aerith is the type of person that children instinctively love and trust, and Marlene immediately shows a liking towards Aerith, (especially when she tells Cloud that she thinks Aerith likes him XD). Marlene is even able to sense Aerith's presence at several points- at the ending of FFVII and during the battle with Sephiroth in AC. So I don't think it's too extreme for Marlene to say she loves Aerith.

Really, it's hard to say for certain whether Marlene is refering to her own feelings for Aerith or Cloud's feelings for Aerith. Unless SE comes out and tells us. :lol: