Sorry if this thread has been opened somewhere else, but this has been bothering me - ever since my friend told me just how much she hated Aerith. XD I'm a bad fan, aren't I? Not that I've suddenly stopped loving Aerith - no, but now it's like I'm more curious about what you guys think separates her from other characters. ^_^

What makes her different from other FF characters? What about "goody-goody" characters?

In my opinion, she's different because she's one of those optimistic-in-hopeless-times characters who sacrificed themselves for everyone else - but that doesn't make her a standard, annoying goody-two shoes character. She was playful, and had more personality, and didn't go wheedling to the main hero for help.

Sure, she was weaker than other characters, but she was stronger in other ways. Does being an ass-kicker instantly mean that a character is cool? And if a character can't fight to save their lives, does that mean that they are instantly annoying and horrible beyond saving?

What do you guys think? (And I'm really sorry if this has been done before. If it has - blargh. Sorry. XD)

What makes her different huh.

Story wise, she's the character that REALLY saved the planet in the end. She also saved the geostigma infected in AC. She gaves Cloud hope in both VII and AC, so that he would have enough drive to do what he set out to do. She was basically the main character aside from the obvious Cloud. Without her there would actually be no story...

And in-battle-wise, she could actually be the strongest character during the latter half of the first disk. If you were to actually stick with her character in the beginning (who's limit breaks would suck until after the first level) until the end, you'd find her character actually advances further than your other characters faster because of obvious reasons.

Anyway... I still like Cloud's character more, but I still have to defend hers. She was better than Tifa IMO... =P At least she didn't get uber weak(900 damage at lvl99 WTF?) after using her last limit.

What makes Aerith different???


Um, well I think she's different because she's the "I am me." type of person. She has her own unique personality, and she isn't afraid to show it. She wasn't afraid to ask Cloud on a date, and she wasn't afraid to tell him that she wanted to meet him.

She has such a knowledge about life, that she didn't fear death. I mean, yeah death isn't anything to be happy about, but she didn't see death as "being elliminated." It was just another cycle of life. Her connection with the planet was amazing. She could hear the planet, listen to its cries. She was like, teh planets muhmuh. :lol: I also thought it was interesting that someone like Aeris, so happy and cheerful to have such a lonely past. She was the only one of her kind, and you'd think she'd be sad and down alot. But, she wasn't. She didn't let her past get in the way of her life.

There's a certain balance in her character that you usually don't see.

Most characters fall either somewhere on the "My life sucks, let me angst about it for a while," side or the "life is great! Look how happy I am!" side, Aeris fell somewhere in the middle.

She pretty much knew her life kinda sucked and things tended to be prety horrible, but she still looked on the bright side. On top of that, her personally falted from time to time. Unlike most of the perky female leads, they weren't afraid to actually have her mess up and other characters call her on it without making them out to be the bad guy.

I tend to be overprotective of Aeris. On message boards when people talk about how annoying she is and make false accusations about her, I jump in there and defend her by saying why those accusation are wrong and why she is a strong character. Usually they just respond with, "No tahts not tru! Aeris is a whore! Ur stoopid for lieking her!"

I find her to be one of the best final fantasy heroines. She appears to be physically weak and frail, but she actually is a very strong person. She wasn't shy about admitting her feelings for Cloud, a welcome change from the usual trend. And it's interesting that she is actually the main hero of the story. (Main hero, not main character). Cloud could have beaten Sephiroth at any time as proven by the scene in the lifestream where he wasted Sephiroth easily. The problem was that a barrier was blocking the entrance to the Northern Crater and no one could do anything until Shinra blasted it away. The big problem was meteor, which none of the characters could stop. Even though Aeris was dead for more than half of the game, she still managed to be the main hero. An almost impossible feat.

Even in AC, I feel as if Aerith was the heroine of the movie. Tifa may have been the main female, but I don't think of her as the heroine of the movie. I mean, Tifa got her ass kicked, couldn't stop Marlene or Denzel from being kidnapped, nagged at Cloud without getting through to him at all, and couldn't even protect herself or Denzel during the Bahamut fight. Seriously... what the hell was so heroic about all that?

Aerith, on the other hand, helped Cloud overcome his grief and guilt, healed everyone from Geostigma, saved Cloud's life three times, healed Tifa, and single-handedly defeated all 3 SHM. Aerith saved the world again. Not too bad for a dead girl.... :P

What's different about Aeris...

I really feel she's the strongest character in FF7. Everyone else lies, hides, breaks down, etc. While Aeris does indeed have her own issues, she never pushes them on anyone else. She keeps a smile on her face and her thoughts to the future even though things are rough.

Plus, she's got some serious balls. Really. She went by herself to face Sephiroth to protect Cloud, her friends, and the planet, and she certainly knew the risks. I don't know if I would have the courage to do someting like that.

Even after her death, she's incredibly selfless. She really wanted to be with Cloud more than anything, but death places a barrier between them. Then Cloud does linger between life and death, and what does she do? Heals him. She sends him back so he can live the long, full life she never had and watches over him with a smile while waiting for the day they meet again.

And uh, she saved the world.

A lot.

What separates Aerith from other characters... hmm...

I'm sure it's different for everyone, but for me it would be her unusual duality. Aerith is both ethereal and spirited. Unlike other FF characters that are one extreme or the other (Yuna being ethereal, Yuffie-types being spirited), Aerith acts as both throughout the game. She cheers everyone up, but at the same time, she can be nurturing and serious (like when Cloud gives the Black Materia to Sephiroth in the Temple of the Ancients).

Another thing that separates her, IMO, is the fact that she really is the true hero of the game. She's the one that dies, and she's the one that saves the planet in the end. Both were unexpected, and her fated tragedy draws me into her character.

Just to address this, both times I played the game, Aerith was the strongest character in my party. Not necessarily in a physical way, but she was definitely the biggest asset. It wasn't just because she was a good healer, but her ability to use magic was stronger than everyone else's. So I always had her doing the summons and offensive magic, and she would hurt the enemy more than Cloud would. Plus, Great Gospel was beyond helpful.

*Agrees with Sadhana* Aerith was definitely a kick-ass character when used properly. I hate it when people say "Aerith was weak, I never used her!" Well, if you levelled her up along with everyone else and actually used her as a mage, rather than a physical fighter, you would realize that she can actually do more damage than Cloud at times. Morons should not be allowed to play RPGs, plzkthx. :rolleyes: I mean, give Aerith some Materia and let her kick the crap out of the enemy, for pete's sake!

Honestly, people whine about Yuna being weak, too. Excuse me??? Yuna is a Summoner. She kicks more ass that anyone else in the game if you let her do her job and Summon, ya moron! :rolleyes: Seriously, does anyone whine about Lulu being weak? Lulu was a mage, too. But, I guess her bubz make her kewl. :rolleyes:

I think people fail to realize just how hard white mages rock the house. Aeris could do everything, too! Black, white, blue, she could blast and heal away! Then again, I may be biased because I can't live without my white mages.

Uhm, people say YUNA is weak? In my friend's game, Yuna killed one of the final bosses, I think Sin, in just a few hits with Holy because of they way they set up her grid/equipment. Sister can kick ass.

I think the people that think Aeris is weak and pointless play the entire game by going attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, attack, ect... Now wouldn't that get boring after a while?

These same people probably hate Cait Sith because he doesn't do that much damage. But he's meant to be used for defense. He's best used on the way to Wutai when Yuffie steals all your materia. Just put cover on him and he'll keep your other two characters alive.

As much as I love Tifa, she really isn't the best fighter or even close to it. Cloud, Barret, Cid, Yuffie, Vincent, and Red XIII all did much more damage that her through the entire game until the end when they were all taking out 9,999 damage. I even tried to use all my characters equally because I don't like it when one or two get neglected. Although her final limit break is pretty sweet if you don't get any misses.

I got through the game fine without her in most cases.
But my friend tells me she's quite a good fighter and does deal some serious damage. Then again, I always used Red and Yuffie/Vincen/Barret (after Aerith died) a lot, so I wouldn't know.

A character can be in a 'damsel' position and still not be helpless. It's how they act in the situation that counts. I'm talking about characters who still keep their heads during crises, like Princess Leia, or Kaname Chidori, and yup, Aerith.

What makes her different, side from what everybody already mentioned: she's the only FF heroine, indeed, probably the only who got macho gamers all over the world crying buckets. Hah! Tifa got all the fanboys looking at her boobs, but sheesh, you see horny men everyday. Making men cry is a more noteworthy feat than making men horny XD

Exactly. Tifa too! She got kidnapped by Shinra and was almost gassed to death, but she uses her own skill and wit to get herself out.

Actually, Barret got kidnapped too. At least twice. zomg, Barret is a damsel! :o

People seriously underestimate Aerith. She has evaded capture from the Turks by herself since her mother died. That takes a lot of brains and guts. The only time they captured her was when she allowed them to capture her in order to protect Marlene. So, I don't really get why people think she's helpless. :rolleyes:

I agree for the most part except...let's not make Aerith out to be an uber goddess here who solved ALL the problems in AC with two ghostly hands tied behind her back. To do that would be to completely degrade what Cloud and the others struggled for. For example, single-handedly defeating all 3 SHM? Um...how? Cloud defeated Kadaj, once as himself and once as Sephiroth. The poor boy was already dying when Aerith finally took him away. Cloud also defeated Loz and Yazoo. They practically blew themselves up. They would have taken Cloud with them if Aerith hadn't saved him. Yes Aerith did save Cloud physically and mentally (though I believe that the whole point of the relay battle during the Bahamut fight was to show that each of the members of Avalanche are there to boost Cloud up and support him. The comradery they showed during this battle I believe helped Cloud to confirm what he learned from Aerith - that he needs to forgive himself and that he's not alone) but...let's not go overboard... It almost tears me up to hear people talking about Aerith as though she was the single important factor in helping Cloud out of his depression, because again, it takes away from the whole family/group dynamic that Avalanche has (and that was pretty much solidifed at the end of AC and with the group picture). Though I can understand why it's so easy to worship Aerith as a perfect character. I mean her portrayl pretty much demands that the audience reacts that way (I'll explain this later). Oh and when and how did she heal Tifa? Don't quite remember that...but maybe I have to watch it again.

Plus in terms of healing everyone from Geostigma, I'm going to do something here that doesn't usually happen when discussing the roles of characters. I'm going to look at it, not as though it's *real* but as though it's a story that someone from the real world (Nomura) ceated. These are characters in a movie/video game who's actions are ultimately dictated by their creators. The problem is that these creators are humans and sometimes make mistakes. Looking at the plot of the movie critically I thought it was a little bit of a let down to have Aerith just heal everyone with geostigma. Plot-wise it made no sense to have her just decide to heal everyone at that point in time. One wonders why she didn't do that a year ago even if she had the power to. And if she couldn't do it before then what happened to make it possible for her to heal everyone with the Raining!Great Gospel? Sure it's a poignant moment that makes Aerith seem very heroic and all encompassing, and drives home her role as the Mother in the movie. Howver, I also think it was a mistake on the part of Nomura's team to add in an unexplained deus ex machina to tidy up the loose ends. That's why I'm a little bit torn between how I feel about Aerith suddenly healing everyone at the end.

In terms of how I feel about Aerith, I'm different from most Cleris shippers I think. I like the couple, but not because of Aerith (and I think it's safe to say that a lot of Cleris shippers are Aerith fans first and CloudxAerith fans second right? Not an insult...just...you know...fact). That's why when it comes to Aerith I'm not one to automatically start fangirling and worshipping her like she's the best rpg heroine of all time. Cuz she's not.

Aerith is a great character. She's different. It's like she's a combination of all the rpg heroine stereotypes out there, thus making her unique. She's wise and mature. She's spirited and fun. She's tough and strong. It's more realistic to have a character that combines so many different traits, since that's the way we are in real life. Still, Aerith does annoy me in someways. Like in the Maiden novella, she seemed far too much of a madonna (biblical figure, not singer). Before I mentioned that she was wise and tough. That's good in small doses, but it seemed to be in overdrive in this novella...like how she was able to bring peace and understanding to the lives of *almost* all those she met in the lifestream. The only one she didn't help was Hojo, but no because she wasn't capable - it was because Hojo himself was just far to crazy for even the strongest and wisest and perfectest of them all to help.

She felt pain sure. She had her doubts as well in the novella, as she did in the video game. But the worst thing I felt I saw from her portrayal in this novella and ff7 in general is that she never failed. She wasn't fallable. I wanted to see her fail at something (big, not like oh she tried to talk to Cloud but her voice couldn't reach him), to try something and fall flat on her face, to make a huge mistake that was entirely her fault, entirely stupid and that couldn't be undone, not without a lot of work and apologies. This is what I expect from the heroes and heroines from my favourite stories. Otherwise, what's the point? Regardless of how well crafted a character she is, if she seems to perfect, it stops me from truly being able to identify with her.

Keep in mind that I'm talking about fallability, not about other very human traits like being able to feel sadness and doubt and such. Most Aerith fans counter arguments like these by saying that she's not perfect - after all she feels sadness at being the last Cetra right? She was also a little sad at having to die to save the world right? True, and these are all very believable attitudes. But not mistakes. Particularly for the last point, in the end, regardless of how she felt, ultimately she made the decision (fairly quickly if I read Maiden correctly) to give her life for the planet. She did it with a brave smile. It's an admirable trait, but not really relatable. Because if it were me I would have tried to find every excuse I could to keep my life from ending. I would have tried to find a way around it - save the world without having to die. I would have bargained, cried, cried and cried some more. That's what 95% of the population of the WORLD would have done. Yes I believe if you're all being honest with yourselves you'd admit that you'd do the same. It's not a bad trait, it's normal and it's HUMAN. I would haved loved it if in Maiden, Aerith was portrayed as having much more doubt and hesitation. Would any young woman in love want to die so readily like that? If she struggled through the decision through tears and pain, and eventually gathered up her courage and decided that it was for the best, it would have made her sacrifice all the more powerful imho. Because it would have shown that this isn't an easy thing to do not even for Aerith. But she's willing to make the big sacrifice for the planet and people that she loves. That makes her infinitely more courageous than having her just say basically "i'm a little sad but it's what I have to do". That just doesn't really drive the point home.

I don't like Tifa at all, but I can at least say that Tifa was fallable, and that's a good thing. Aerith is a fun, interesting and easily likeable character, very wonderful and blah blah blah but for all the human emotions she's shown throughout the games, in the end she's portrayed as being too perfect. It's like...she's the person I want to be like, but know I never can. Kind of like Lacus Clyne from Gundam Seed or something. I respect and admire them but don't and *can't* relate to them in any way, shape or form.

Anyway feel free to burn me alive, but it's my opinion. Sorry, though I'm a Cleris and like the couple, I'm not into character worship. These people are, like I said, ultimately characters that are created by a very real and fallible human being that lives and breathes in the real world. Because humans aren't perfect, they aren't going to create the character that is so perfectly crafted that not even the toughest and most professional critic can find fault in. That's just fact. As a writer I know how hard it is to create good characters and I make mistakes and take wrong turns all the time. No character is created perfectly. The fact that some characters (again see Lacus Clyne) are potrayed as being perfect shows just how their creators can make mistakes in characterization. Every character created, thus, can be analyzed and picked apart like this.

Just a few quick comments, nyrin.
*HD is too tired at this point to really care*

I don't think Aerith solved ALL the problems in AC, but then again, I don't think that's what FFG was saying either. However, I thought the movie did portray her in a goddess-like light :P

You don't think she's the greatest heroine of all time, but I happen to think she's up there. They're both just personal opinions, so let's not state them like they're facts.

She died. I'm not sure how that's saying she's perfect, never fails, and isn't fallable. She has emotions, but handles it differently from most people. Nothing wrong with that. She's special and unique, but she's also fictional.

I'm honestly not sure why Aerith is being picked on about this kind of thing. Many traits you're referring to are actually traits most RPG heroine's carry. If I wanted to, I could whine about how unbelievable each and every single one of these characters are...but I'm not going to, considering that we're dealing with characters in a fantasy RPG.

Like I said, she's a fictional character in a fantasy game, so no...there are things about her that won't be believeable. Secondly, she's a character who isn't human like Cloud or like Tifa. Let's keep in mind that she's a Cetra. Certainly, there will be things about her you won't be able to relate to. Aerith was specifically created to represent life and death, so no...SE isn't going to portray her as someone who's going to beg and cry to keep her life from ending. She talks to the planet, has magical abilities in healing people, and can move the lifestream. It's understandable why people can't relate to her as well as characters like Tifa.

Aerith is a bit mysterious, and she's someone I wish I could be more like. That's why I love her. It's not that I love her because I think she's realistic and is someone I can relate to. Honestly though, a fantasy RPG is the last place I'll ever look if I was searching for realistic characters.

That's fine.
No one's asking you to "worship" Aerith ^^;

Er...no offense, but aren't you the one making her out to be "perfect" and "unfallable"? I love Aerith and I'll agree she carries many traditional traits we see in almost all rpg heroines, but I sure don't see her as flawless.

Wasn't referring to you.

My apologies. I wasn't trying to insult her. But that's what it felt like when reading her (and others') post. But if I got it wrong, than all right.

And what if I do? I don't see why that would upset anyone.

It's not the fact that she died but how she handled it. If you argue that she just handles things differently than other people, basically what you're using the "because that's who she is" argument, which is an unfair tool to use in any argument because you can end any debate by saying "cuz that's the way it is". The question is why did they choose to make her that way and did they really need to? Was it essential to create the character in that light? I don't know the answer to that question, but it's definitely an interesting thing to look at.

*sigh* Again I have to say that I'm not picking on this particular fictional character for any reason. You're right, you *could* whine about how unbelievable every character is. That's my point. Every character can be analyzed in both a positive and negative light. That includes Aerith. The only reason why I'm talking about Aerith is because that's what this thread is about. If you want you can name any other character in any other fandom I'm aware of and I'll talk about the pros and cons about them too. So please don't think that I'm just mindlessly hating on Aerith (though it seems to be almost a reflex for most shippers of any character when someone else says something in the slightest negative about them, so I don't really mind your reaction lol :) ).

Which is my point. People won't be able to relate to her. Some people see this as an understandable consequence of who she is, and love her for it (sometimes in an almost hero worship sort of way). Other people like me find this problematic, and a barrier to truly liking her character. Whatever you choose to believe is, of course, entirely up to you.

Again that's up to you. It's the same mentality of people who like Lacus over Flay (sorry for the Gundam Seed references but it's the only one I can think of right now!). Some people just adore those 'goddess' types...whatever you choose to like is fine.

Really? That's too bad...because there are some really good fantasy rpg characters out there, or even in fantasy rpg style novels. I don't think the genre is any excuse to skimp on certain aspects of your story, but that's just me.

lol I didn't say that I *did* think that the people on this board were asking me to worship her haha. The only way I'd think that was if I read it in the guidelines or something, which I don't believe I did. That would be a kind of scary guideline though! "Worship Aerith or Die"? lol

I'm going by what I've seen. I analyzed it and that's the conclusion that I came to, the same conclusion that quite a few people have. Then again other people have come to different conclusions. All are valid :)

Again what I said above is my opinion. Aerith is a great character and I love her to death but imho (which stands for, for those of you who don't know, in my humble opinion, read: humble and opinion) she has flaws in her characterization that makes me not like her as much as I could. Which is why when it comes to Aerith's character, I can defend her on some points and agree with accusations on other points. That's practically how I feel about every character that I've ever come across in any story. I don't think I'm able to just freely love certain characters without considering the character from ALL view points, the good and the bad, which, again is why I can't become a 100% through and through defender. But that's just me and my opinion. You don't have to feel personally slighted/annoyed by it so...don't, m'kay? Or if you'd like just ignore my post. Aerith rocks!

Never said you were.
I was just stating my own opinion.

Basically, all I’m saying is that if your opinion is a fact, then so is mine.
No one's upset as of yet :P

She’s certainly not another Cloud or another Tifa, so why would it be unfair for me to use such a fact? It’s only right that we keep their individual characteristic traits in mind, correct?

Anyhow, the characters were all created to fit into the story. If you’re wondering why they chose to make her the way she is, you would have to question FFVII’s story as well as its theme.

Right, and I was just saying that since they're all unbelievable in some manner, it'd be pointless for me to whine specifically about Aerith.

Alright, so we’re talking about something that would apply to every single character, and not just Aerith alone. There aren't very many good characters then since they're all unbelievable in some way or other. I guess you could look at it like that.

I think we agree on a lot of things actually, but our main disagreement lies in whether we believe Aerith is too perfect or not. While you seem to think she has the flaw of being too perfect (did I get that right?), I just happen to think she’s not perfect. Reminds me of the Aerith = a Mary-Sue thead :giggle:

Anyhow, I think this thread was started for the purpose of defending Aerith's character, not for pointing out her flaws, so maybe this discussion is better done over in the other thread.

Not attacking in any way, but I just want to jump in and throw my opinions around a little. :lol: *has not taken part in any serious discussion for quite a loooong time*

Actually, Cloud didn't. They were pretty much fine and dandy but Aerith's rain weakened and melted them to their final state where they had to resort to blowing themselves up.

It's true, and I agree with you - that the entire Avalanche had a hand in helping Cloud with his mental state in AC. But let's not forget that Cloud was already in this horrendous state of depression in the two years prior to AC, and as shown in the scene where his handphone falls in the lake, Avalanche have already been trying to motivate and reach out to him before Aerith took matters into her hands. You see the most significant changes in Cloud take place after he interacts with Aerith. She may not be the sole factor for his mental recovery, but she is quite arguably the main factor.

In the church scene after Tifa and Cloud fall unconscious. Nomura confirmed this as well in the Reunion Files.

Off-topic somewhat, but we did have a huge speculation about this when AC first came out. :lol: One of the theories that made sense was that Sephiroth's presence and Jenova's head were blocking her from intervening, like in MoTP and FF7. Ugh, I can't remember which was the thread, but it's an interesting read if you find it. :lol:

Well, I didn't. I had more than enough of that from Tifa, thanks. I'm a fan of the admiringly strong and spirited characters, and Aerith satisfied me in that aspect. Therefore I simply adored how Aerith was portrayed in the novella, selfless, courageous and never backing down no matter what the danger. She kept trying and trying to do whatever she could even though she's dead and should rest in peace, but no, she kept fighting and searching for ways to help Cloud and the rest. I found that incredibly admirable. Some people can relate to Aerith because they can relate to the will in her to do your best no matter what, and to fight for those you love. It's a matter of individuality on who can or cannot relate to her as a character.

The way you feel Aerith should be portrayed doesn't necessarily make it the same for everyone else.

I don't exactly 'worship' Aerith - if I worshipped any character, it would have to be Rinoa :lol:, but I can relate to her in some ways and I do admire her. She's one of my favourite FF heroines and personally, arguments that she's 'too perfect' really rile me up. There's nothing wrong with being perfect. Perfection is something everyone struggles to attain in life, and though I too don't believe that Aerith is 'perfect', I'd say it's the way she carries herself that makes it out to be that way.

PSHAW. :lmao: We're the pink, Clerisths Nazis, remember!!!

Exactly, HD. And I'd love someone to quote exactly where I said that Aerith solved all the problems in AC, because I certainly never said that *is tired of being taken out of context*. <_< I do believe I was comparing Aerith to Tifa. I never said anything about Aerith solving everything. End of story. Aerith was the one who destroyed/saved the SHM. Cloud did help, of course, but, in the end, it was Aerith who sent them back to the Lifestream. That was all I meant by that.

*Agrees again* I don't believe I ever said anything about "worshipping", Aerith, either, so let's not start putting words into my mouth that I never said. I was merely comparing what CloTis say about Tifa being the heroine of AC by doing... well, not much of anything... to what Aerith accomplished during the movie. That is all.

Too true, HD. And, once again, I never said this either. What I said was really meant to be taken in a light-hearted manner. I certainly never meant it to be taken into serious debate. I was merely amused at the fact that CloTis are all "ZOMG TEEFZ IZ TEH HEROIN" when she didn't really do a whole lot compared to Aerith who saved teh wurld. Honestly, lighten up, nyrin.

*Nods* Yep. And any Aerith-bashing should take place on another forum.

Exactly, yin-chan! ^_^ Cloud softened them up, but Aerith was the one who took them "home". Without her, I don't know what would have happened. Who even knows if they were capable of dying? They are remnants, born from the Lifestream. Does mortality even apply to them?

Yes, and this was confirmed by Nomura himself in Reunion Files. Tifa and the others had two years to try and get through to Cloud and they never got anywhere. What makes you think that things would suddenly change? They only changed when Aerith became involved. Cloud's grief and guilt could only be healed by Aerith. It was only after this that the words of his friends started to get through to him.

Yep, that one is official and I can supply a direct quote.

Well said. I agree 100%.

Actually you're wrong in that aspect. I was a Cloud fan before I was an Aerith fan. I loved Cloud's character more and I think still do. Aerith comes in a close 2nd for me. I mean you have to be a fan to one first before the other and the once you notice how both characters interact with each other, that's how you become the fan of the pairing.

HD and FFG those are extremely valid points. What everybody actually thinks about Aerith all comes down to opinion. Only are the really strong points all based on fact. Atleast that's how I feel.

Nyrin, I can see your point and why you might have trouble relating to Aerith's character. There's just something I wanted to comment on.

I think that's an overgeneralization. A lot of Cleris fans like Aerith, yes, but many like Cloud more than they like her. And it doesn't seem fair to say that most Cleris shippers like Aerith more than they like the pairing because there's just no factual support of that statement.

I don't know if you're comparing that to what we're doing here so feel free to correct me. But if you are, that's being kind of harsh. I don't think that this thread is about character worship or reflexive fangirling. We're just appreciating the benevolent qualities of Aerith.

Not true. I'm a bigger Tifa fan than Aeris fan. I like her because, even though she was in love with Cloud, she was able to accept the fact at the end of the game that he will always love Aeris, which is a very hard thing to do. (I feel like I've said that about 1000 times on these boards lol!)

I agree, Sadhana.
I like Aerith too, but I'm actually a Cloud fan before anything else.

I still don't understand the arguments here though, because something sounds rather contradicting to me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from my understanding, nyrin, it sounds like you're saying people shouldn't make Aerith out to be an "uber goddess" because she's not one. At the same time, however, you're saying that she's a "flawless" and "perfect" character. Doesn't saying that she's flawless, perfect, and that she can't fail at anything indeed make her out to be something of a goddess?

IMO, I don't see her character as being flawless or perfect...but rather, just someone who is extremely strong emotionally and can handle her problems better than characters like Cloud. Just as Yin was saying, I admire strong characters, and she's certainly a very good example of one. That's different than saying that she's perfect, mind you. :P

In terms of AC though...with her being dead and everything, I think SE did portray her in a holier and more sacred light.

*shrugs* Okay, I'm wrong. Aerith rocks :)

No such thing as a right or wrong preference :P
Bah, there's nothing wrong at all with not liking certain traits of a character.

It's your reasonings that I'm interested in. You're saying Aerith is too perfect and flawless...in other words, you think she's a mary-sue and just not realistic enough. Does that about sum it up? I was a little confused so I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. :)

*raises hand* is actually a rabid Yuffie fan, everything goes for me in FF7 universe that will not bother me. Well, except if Yuffie ended up with Vincent, then I'll probably do violence.

As for Aerith being a goddess. She healed people, she saves children and saved the world twice now (Meteor and Geostigma), and communicate with Cloud to get over this guilt that is clearly NOT. HIS. FAULT. Despite the fact that she is already handicapped because of her eternal dead status, something the living characters somehow didn't do for the past two years. If that doesn't spell supernatural I don't know what that is.

If anyone is to blame, it's SE, who were comfortable portraying her in that manner. Now, people will like that and people won't, but that's really their problem in the long run.

Do I think Aerith is perfect and flawless? Yes. And it's not a bad thing. Never a bad thing (look at Galadriel in the Third Age). Do I worship her? No. Since I worship God, the Dalai Lama. And Yuffie. :D

Does that make her a Mary Sue? IMHO all main characters in fictional works are Garys and Marys. People are just in denial.

Couldn't have put it better myself, I completely agree with you on this, Sadhana. I am a huge Aerith fan, but I'm more a fan of the actual pairing before being a fan of Aerith. Just Aerith alone almost doesn't cut it for me, it has to be Cloud x Aerith. :lol: I guess everyone's preference is different.

It's never wrong having your own opinion. :) We're all just voicing what we feel here, no right or wrong. *puts on pi glasses*

o_O

Is it just me or was anyone else glad to have the chance to see how Aerith was feeling in Maiden? :unsure: I thought it *did* show tears and pain o_O And how Aerith struggled on despite Cloud's pain and her's :cray:

I'm sure there was stuff about heartbreak and ... eggshells? ;o

Oh, and she failed to save President Shinra as well if I recall correctly. Or she didn't want to ... or something :lol:

Girls got her priorities straight :wub:

Too true Fury. And she also heard that cry and when she realized it wasn't her own, she then discovered it was the cry of Cloud's heart! It's so sad :cray:

I agree. It would have been an overgeneralization had I said that I'm different from ALL Cleris fans since ALL Cleris fans like Aerith more than Cloud. I was a bit more careful with my wording I believe (using most, which to me is true, since most of the Cleris fans I've encountered, as well as the Cloti fans, seem to like their pairing mostly because they're fans of their respective female). Still, some people didn't pay attention to those details and twisted it into an overgeneralization statement. So let me make it clear that I don't think ALL Cleris fans are that way :ermm: kay? lol

Sorry I disagree on this point. Aerith did not destroy any of the SHM. She did save Kadaj when he was dying by sending him back to the lifestream. The other two sent themselves to the lifestream by ultimately blowing themselves up, as I gathered when they said something like "let's go together." There's no evidence to suggest that Aerith brought Loz or Yazoo back to the lifestream with her. All I saw that happened was that first, Kadaj was dying, thus he would have returned to the lifestream by himself anyway. Aerith sped the process up by bringing him directly to the lifestream just before he was about to give out. But most importantly she saved his soul by giving him peace just before that. I think that's the most important part that interaction in that scene. Then the two other SHM come. They shoot cloud in the back and they basically tell Cloud that the three of them are going to die together. They get ready for their last attack with the materia in their hand. Cloud counters. They all go explody. The screen goes white. Within that entire scene there's no evidence that Aerith brought the other two SHM to the lifestream. They killed themselves. But Aerith did rescue Cloud (from the dead? I'm still confused about that) and brought him back to the "outside world" or whatever we can call it. So I really do disagree about Aerith saving or destroying the SHM. Also I never said FF_goddess that you particularly believed she solved all the problems in the movie. I said that we should refrain from making it seem that way. Because imho it's not true. I'm still waiting to see how she healed Tifa btw. Just interested cuz I really don't remember...

And someone else asked me for my reasoning and whether i think she's a Mary Sue. Well no I don't think she's a through and through Mary Sue. I waiver a lot on this issue, and I change my mind about it often after reviewing new peices of info, or old peices in different ways. Right now I believe that while she's a pretty well done character, she does have some of the more annoying Sue qualities that would make me cringe if I saw them in a particular fanfic. But it seems to work within FF7. Like someone else said Aerith has a particular theme she's supposed to represent, so maybe she needs to be that perfect to acheive that end. It keeps me from truly liking her character, but again to each his own.

I think you've just reiterated exactly the point I was trying to make in my second post on this thread...which ...erm.. people have largely ignored for some reason lol...maybe cuz it's easier to do so? But I'm not a stranger to forums so it's not really surprising. Seriously give it a read and tell me what you think :)

My pleasure! Allow me to clarify my point for you. Aerith is largely flawless - at least she doesn't seem to have any of the normal human weaknesses, which others have said is becasue she's a cetra. It works for some and not for others. However we shouldn't give her credit for achieving things that she didn't, especially when we're giving her credit for acheiving what others in the story worked hard to because I don't think that's fair to the other characters. Again you can refer to the SHM destroying, etc etc.

Yes, I realize that is what you were saying, and I still think it's an overgeneralization. I don't think that's necessarily the case for most Cleris fans, and I would have to say that it's not the case from my own personal experience. But personal experience isn't enough to base that on which is why I noted the lack of factual support.

Well as long as we're splitting hairs I'll say this. What you're saying seems logical. But then in that case if neither of us have factual support, then there's no proof that what either of us are saying is right. It could be an overgeneralization and it could not be. In that case if it's okay for people to call my statement an overgeneralization based on their opinion and not fact, then my assessment that it isn't an overgeneralization, based on the same criteria, is also valid. Since either view is valid all I can do is stick with my own opinion. So I'll do that. But again, this is all just semantics.

OK, read your words, but I don't understand what you're getting at. You don't like that Aerith is being a perfect character, but you still like her, but not really? 0.o;

That would be like explaining why Sephiroth had to gloat when he could have killed Cloud in that scene and not get Omnislashed instead in the end. Or why Cloud can defeat Shin Bahamut with a level 1 Limit Break, but couldn't do the same to Rosso a year later in Dirge of Cerberus. And how come Tifa, who could lift Loz in the air so she can toss him in the ground with obvious ease of strength, but has no brain to just lift Denzel and flee from a giant dragon that was about to stomp them and take him to a safer location?

Or why Neo has to fight a thousand Agent Smiths when he could simply just fly instead. Or why Frodo didn't ride an Eagle to get to Mount Doom. Do I need to go on with this?

Well, why should she? Characters had pointed out that as long Aerith put her mind into it, and decided that she can act on it, she won't change her decisions. Even if doing this would mean her end, if it could bring a fighting chance for the rest of the Planet. It's not about her inability to fail, it's about her doing the right thing, even if it means she'll only die.

I also remember she didn't help President ShinRa as well, along with Hojo in the novella. I think it was the person's spirit that something to do with it, not because Aerith wishes it to.

The Rain makes them weak. And notice that unlike Kadaj, who has a green glow, Loz and Yazoo are black.

And from what Nomura was saying, Aerith specifically saved Kadaj. I don't think she managed to do the same to his brothers.

And EW, I can't believe you put Lacus Clyne in this. She's a freak clone of SEED's director's pathetic attempt to emulate Audrey Hepburn... it buuuurns, precious!!!

What "normal human weaknesses" are you referring to?
Certainly, whatever weaknesses characters like Cloud and Tifa have...she makes up for, but how does that make her a flawless character? In turn, she can't do certain things they can do. She's physically weaker than them when it comes to something like hand to hand combat. Does it automatically mean she's too perfect just because, as with many heroines, she's extremely pure-hearted? She does have normal worries and emotions too (human weaknesses, if you will). The only difference is that she expresses them differently from how Tifa or Cloud would. Does that make her a perfect character? IMO, no.
Not everyone in the real world is a Cloud or a Tifa. There are always exceptions, those who can look at things from a more positive perspective. *shrugs*

I think she was only being compared to Tifa, and in that sense...yeah, I do believe she did more harm to the SHM than Tifa ever did.

How, exactly, do you know that? No one saw exactly what happened. Kadaj started to disappear after Aerith's rain began to fall. It makes sense to me that Aerith's rain would have the same effect on Yazoo and Loz. It seemed to me that, while Kadaj was willing, even excited at the prospect of being "saved", the other two seemed to resist. Yazoo and Loz, IMO, wanted to take Cloud out before they got "sent". Regardless of what happened, it has always been my interpretation that Aerith's rain would have sent them to the Lifestream anyways. How do you know that this isn't the case?

The scene in the church after Cloud falls unconscious is about Aerith healing Cloud and Tifa. Her music, "Water", was playing, the background is full of white light, the wolf appears... Aerith's presence was all around Cloud and Tifa. And it was confirmed in -Reunion Files-. Nomura stated that this scene was about Aerith healing Cloud and Tifa and also foreshadowed her later appearance in the church.

Just because I like a character doesn't mean I like everything about them. I love Cloud to peices but his emo-ness grates on me. Same thing can be said for all the characters including aerith. They have all have traits that annoy me. It seems like I've said this a few times, I'm getting tired of repeating myself. But it seems as though it's never going to end lol. You see, this was a useful little exercise to really tell me whether or not I can keep doing this 'debating' (well on e-forums you can't really call it that) thing. I think it gave me my answer.

As someone who gave her opinion that horror of horrors goes against those of most of the members of the forums (even though it's a valid opinion, and my true opinion), there's probably nothing I can do except try to argue my way out of a corner while everyone else attacks me with their flashing pink pitch-forks of D00m. That's the way it usually is in any forum (well not the pink pitch fork thing...as they come in different colours depending on the fandom, the character etc). It's a little sad...but for the most part, unless you think the way most people do on the forum you'll end up in a corner - though I was hoping it might be a tad different this time... Well I'm all for defending my point, and people are *usually* jovial and light-hearted about it. Even with pitch forks these people might just give me a decisive little poke rather than tearing me to shreds like others would (yes there are a few in every forum). Even still... I think this made me realize that for me, debating, or the 'debating' that goes on in internet forums, is a pretty tedious, tedious, and tedious cycle.

You see, I'm going to defend my point, because I believe in it and none of you are going to convince me of anything different. Then the others that still care will attempt to pick it apart, because it's the same thing for you - you believe in your point and some random person on the internet isn't going to make you think any differently. Then I'll defend my point again, noting that some of the valid arguments I made in my previous posts have curiously gone ignored (which makes for a pretty incomplete 'debate'). None of us will gain any ground on the other nor learn a new prospective from the other, since we're all too stubborn to (although that Aerith healing Tifa thing is a new one. I'll actually have to read the reunion files one day when I've got the time. Seems pretty eye-roll worthy to me though). So I'll just end up wasting precious amounts of time repeating myself dozens of times lol. It's so tedious that it actually stops being fun. So I'll just leave it at this:

Not everyone likes Aerith. Some people hate her. Some people like me like her for the most part, but not everything about her. Some people like you love her through and through, and like little soldiers will jump to her defense even if someone makes fun of the colour of her outfit. Each opinion is valid. Each opinion wonderful. I think I'll keep mine. Your welcome to keep yours.

Well er thanks for helping me out! I think I'll leave the 'debating' stuff to you. Or else if I do decide to debate I'll just make sure I read everyone's posts first to find out what everyone else is saying and just...you know...mimic it. Cuz the whole me vs everyone thing is very tiresome. Case in point: *sigh*

Anyway you guys can continue having whatever convo you were having before I decided to open my big opiniated mouth. Aerith is amazing etc. Just pretend I'm not here. :)

You mean kind of like how I made a joke about how Aerith did this and this and that and saved the world "single-handedly" in comparison to Tifa who didn't really do much of anything and you jumped in and started picking my joking post apart as if I had actually meant it to be debated seriously? Yyyyeah... :rolleyes:

Yes. This whole thing was, in fact, all about you and not about voicing my own opinion. You're that special.

...


No really, you are! *pats you on the head* :)

Oh and while I'm lying, I might as well mention that your most recent comment was entirely relevant and immediately addressed my comment which you quoted. :lol: *pats you again* You special girl you.