(Not sure where to put this...)

I've just mustered up the courage to take Jennabe and Sleek off my ignore list(does that make me sound closed minded? I'm not, really!) and read their arguements on why CloudxTifa have undying hawt twoo wub. Ai yai yai. Apparentley CloudxTifa are the only possible pairing. No matter what. CloudxAerith? NOPE SHE'S DEAD, YOU DAMN NECROPHILIAC CLERITH FANS!! WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?!

Really, they don't even debate. They just make you feel like an idiot and harp on the fact that Cloud and Tifa live together and are one big happy faaaammmilllyyyy or whatever...Why does this bother me so damn much? I've sworn off the VII/Advent Children boards, they make me that uncomfortable. I shouldn't be this weird about them. Sheesh. I'd debate them myself, but I'm baaad at debating as of now, not experienced enough in the Rabid department. Heh. So, really, does the rabid-ness bother anyone else, or am I just some closed-minded Nazi Clerith who can't see the truth?(*Snort*)

Heavens no you're most definetly not some Clerith nazi that doesn't know the truth. Don't let them put you down like that. They're just making some ad hominem argument to make you feel like your opinion isn't worth anything, which also is completely untrue. Don't worry i've encountered those two Cloti's before, and don't worry i'm really bad at debating also. But i'm glad you've decided to ignore them if only i had more courage. And don't worry you're not close-minded at all. At least i don't think so anyway.

Happy family =/= canon couples. Proof: Barret. He lives with Tifa, both of them are Marlene's parents. Does that make them lovers? No.

Cleris is possible (one is living the other is unattainable because the partner is dead). Proof: Vincent and Lucrecia in Dirge of Cerberus. The parallels of their relationship is glaring.

And as far as I know, Cloud and Tifa are not a canon pair by DoC (this is SE, they made Cid and Shera marry. They made Wakka and Lulu marry without making a giant deal on it).

True, they don't debate, if they're only reasoning against Cloud and Aerith because she's dead. I don't think you're close minded; and in my personal opinion, anyone who is a fan of C/A isn't closed minded, because we believe in their love even though Aerith is dead, and it would seem that everyone should automatically go for Cloud and Tifa since they are alive and well. So.. no, heh. You shouldn't let them put you down if that's their best agruement, seriously!

You're definately not close-minded. If anyone is close-minded, it's them, not only can they not get over the fact that single Cloud is the canon, and he has not yet, after a year of being freed from his guilt, gotten with Tifa, Tifa is NOT the only woman left on the planet and Cloud can easily fall for someone else.

Just because Tifa is alive and Aerith is not, doesn't make Cloud and Tifa the canon. Until SE comes right out and says it, single Cloud is the canon and all other pairings involving him are the fanon.

Aerith is very much alive though, her consciousness, as stated by Nomura himself, resides within Cloud, and Cloud certainly doesn't seem ready or willing to drive her out. In the DoC booklet, Nomura confirms that as well, by stating that Aerith is someone that "Cloud can never forget." Funny that she wasn't in the game, as were Cloud and Tifa, but they still felt she had to be mentioned. They could have just left it with, "A woman with the blood of the Cetra flowing through her." but they deemed her important enough to put her in the booklet as someone specifically that Cloud would always remember.

CloTi's seem to think that Aerith is dead, but apparantly SE thinks totally the opposite. True, while she is dead physically, she is alive within Cloud, and she is mentioned quite a bit. SE seems to think about her quite often.

Also, as stated by someone before this, Barret is part of the family as well. CloTi's seem to forget that. They also seem to forget that in Case of Tifa, not even Barret could push Cloud and Tifa together, they were just too different. I also wouldn't call Cloud a family man if he's off running his buisness all over the place all the time.

Well, don't expect a fair debate from all cloti. Their are some that actually have half-decent facts, and don't let their rabidness get ahead of themselves, or you can get the cloti's that are just down right pitiful, and let the rabidness swallow them whole... :ermm:
But, dear god I as well hate when Cloti's use the "CLOUD AND TIFUH ARE SHACKIN UP AND RAISIN TEH KIDDIES." But, thats not true. Cloud may be part of the family, but cloti's seem to put it like Cloud and Tifa are the "mom and dad". Sorry to say, they always forget about poor Barret. They never seem to remember that he's in the "family" too. :rolleyes:
And, you don't know how many countless cloti's use the "AERITH'S DEAD" term. Goodness, you'd think they'd find something better to use, but sadly no. You can tell if a cloti raves about that, then more than likely they have no concept of love. They refuse to see the true meaning of love, and they think in order for someone to love, they can't be dead. Its not the person you love, its their soul. Aerith's soul isn't dead, and never will die.

Which shows you CXA's relationship doesn't concern physical contact. Mental contact though. Cloti's sometimes focus too much on physical contact, which is not what a true couple would do. Right?

Goodness loves, your not a rabid Nazi clerith. Just keep your cool, and don't act like a rabid cloti would. I know, its hard sometimes.... but, getting all worked up only makes matters worse. I will admit, some cloti facts boil my blood, and the things they say are just awful... but, I keep calm because cleris facts are what I have to calm my nerve.

They didn't seem like a very happy family in CoT. Or AC. I don't know about other families, but most people get closer to their family members in the case of a deadly ailment like Geostigma. I don't think they usually run away to go live out the rest of their lives in "some dead girl's" church.

I love this arguement. Because as soon as someone you love dies, you become a necrophiliac if you don't immediately move on. :rolleyes: It's not Nazi Clerith you're being here. It's called rationality.

Sadhana:

Nevermind whether you move on or not. What they're saying is that you're automatically a necrophiliac if you don't stop loving someone after they've passed away. Anyhow, Clotis are in denial then 'cos they know we're all "necrophiliacs" in real life.
WE ALL NEED SERIAZ HELP, YESH! :tard:

Don't we already have a club for that here somewhere? ^^

TKC:

Seriously, we can just rub Tifa and Barret in their faces too.

ZOMG, they were and are STILL living together as part of one big happy family! *gasp*
She was/is taking care of Barret's daughter and introduces her to people as her own daughter. Tifa=mother and Barret = father! Their relationship is husband and wife, zomg! It's twu wub! :o

IMDB Clotis sound extremely rabid and scary.
*shivers*

Yeah IMDb is home to some of the most rabid, stupid, and scariest Clotis. Because of them i refused to go to IMDb for months. One of the Clotis that Krazie Chick mentioned Sleek actually said this (i don't know if i quoted it correctly though) "One day i will go and slay all the Cloud+Aerith fans in the dead of night." i don't know if it's correct but it had something to do with wiping us off the face of the earth.

LOL, yeah slay us because of laughter... :lmao: Well, when this cloti with teh amazin, earth shakin facts of "CLOUD N' TIFUH" comes and shows us were wrong, please do tell me.

In a recent post, Sleek said something like "Cloud is too inconsiderate towards Tifa."

And i'm thinking, ok, why do you honestly think he's good for her then?

And Jannabe is a final fantasy VII fantard to put it best. Every little inconstisancy brought up he has to have a reason for. Like How did Rufus survive? And Jannabe answers that it was only smoke that got him.

I think Sleek is just really horny and that's why he wants Cloud with Tifa.

Let's not forget people, we're not just here to bash Clotis. ;) That'd make us as bad as the rabids, no?

That's a totally normal thing to say.

I don't understand this logic. I've never heard a single Cleris ever say that they want to see Cloud humping Aerith's corpse (excuse my coarse language), so why on Earth do they keep calling us necrophiliacs? I don't know about others, but personally, I like the way that the Cloud and Aerith relationship for what it was in the game, not what it could be. I think their bond was touching and tragic, and I loved that about them. That's why I'm a Cleris, not because I necessairly want them to be together (which is where I guess the necrophilia thing comes in but it's still such a pointless thing to say since not a single person I've known has EVER wanted their relationship to be like that). I'm just Cleris because I loved the way that S-E illustrated the two of them.

Aww, thanks guys. Sleek and Jennabe...Well, they're just rabids, so we ignore 'em, right? Anyway, quick question about Cloti logic: Why is it that anytime Tifa shows love/affection/whatever for Cloud, it automatically means that Cloud loves her too, and it's a big mooshy Cloti moment? Honestly, I don't recall ever really seeing a scene where Cloud...Y'know...Shows he loves Tifa. Hmm. Ah well, I guess we'll never know. :D

*Agrees* -_- That is one thing about the whole "Aerith is dead" argument that totally pisses me off (the "Cloud would have to become a necrophiliac in order to continue loving Aerith" statement (it cannot be called an argument)). People that use this obtuse declaration in love triangle debates should be shot. :ow: They are maladjusted, immature, and completely ignorant when it comes to love. They have no concept of what love is and have clearly never been in love themselves. For all of the morons who still don't get it, I will explain-- sex does not= love. It doesn't even come close. Love means holding someone in your heart forever. Love means continuing to love someone even after they have passed on. Love means searching for a way to be with the one you love no matter what the odds. Love means waiting for the one you love for however long it takes.

Plus, let us not forget that Cloud is not the typical hormone-driven guy. He isn't anything like you horny fanboys out there, so stop ruining his character by lowering him to your level. <_< Cloud is an extremely introverted and shy person who hides his innermost feelings. He's not a skirt-chaser and has never been portrayed as such. Cloud has deeper thoughts in his head than who he is going to screw next. Think about it- Cloud has had 3 years to get into Tifa's pants and he still doesn't act interested in her. It doesn't take a genius to figure this one out, people. :yawn:

It also amuses me how many people will say that Cloud cannot be with Aerith because she is dead and then turn around and say they are fans of Tidus/Yuna. Hellooooo??? Tidus and Yuna's love story was directly parallel with that of Cloud and Aerith. Tidus and Yuna's love was based on the concept of loving someone even after they have died. It was also about continuing to love that person and search for a way to be with them again, despite the overwhelming odds. So, yes, it is totally ClAeris, whether the CloTis like it or not. And so was Shuyin/Lenne, whose love endured for 1,000 years. And CloTis find it hard to believe that Cloud can still be in love with Aerith after 2 or 3 years? Please... :rolleyes:

None of these idiots seem to get that this is not a question of who Cloud can be with, it is a question of who he loves. You can continuing loving someone, even after they are dead. Think about it. Would you cease to love someone simply because they died? I would certainly hope not! Also, if someone you loved died, would you immediately go shack up with someone else? No, you'd want to be alone for a while, wouldn't you? Plus, let us not forget that Cloud's decision at the end of FFVII was to be with Aerith, to "meet her there" ("there" being The Promised Land). So, he is still searching for a way to be with her, even though she is dead. This has been shown time and time again in subsequent games like Final Fantasy Tactics and Kingdom Hearts.
And, in Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, it is shown that death means nothing. Aerith is still very much a part of Cloud's life. They interact with one another in the movie, speaking and even touching. And, in the end, Aerith remains a part of Cloud's life as shown in the bonus video "Calling". So, truly, this argument should not even be used anymore. S-E has already shown that, in the world of Final Fantasy, death isn't really a problem. A few lines from "Maiden of the Planet", the official Aerith novella that prove exactly my point:

"She was told that death was not the demise of life."

"Aerith knew that death didn't mean to be annihilated."

Death cannot stop love, especially in the world of Final Fantasy. And it certainly is not a hindrance to Cloud and Aerith. It never was.

FF Goddess, I think you should go to imdb and debate. I'd just love to see their responses.

I wish people would look up the word necrophiliac before they start throwing it around. Ugh.

And like FF_Goddess said, sex doesn't equal love. I've tried to bring this up with Clotis who like to act as though Cloud and Tifa had sex under the Highwind, but to no avail...

Well, I threw out there on one of the boards that "You can still love someone even after they die"

Jennabe responded with "Loving a dead woman is just as unhealthy as humping a corpse."

So I asked him if my dad was unhealthy because he still loves my mom who died about 5 years ago.

I really wish I said, "Ok so your alright with people humping corpses?"

I saw all that, Rinchan. Jennabe doesn't seem to understand the concept of "love after death", that always annoys me. I wonder what she'll respond with...Eh, she'll probably try to make you feel retarded and say Cloud needs to move on or whatever.

Are CloTis honestly still saying that Cloud and Tifa had sex under the Highwind??? Stupid people make my brain sad.... Honestly, this scene only shows that Cloud rejects Tifa. Tifa practically tells Cloud that she loves him when she says "Words aren't the only thing to tell people what you are thinking". However, Cloud's only response to this is "......". When asked what "....." means to the Japanese, the response is that it means embarrassment, annoyance, irritation, surprise, etc. This is, in fact, true. It was confirmed on this page, which states:

"A silence ellipse is three or more dots indicating the noted silence of a character. Sometimes it is used as a humorous pause, but often it appears as a more serious tactful or awkward silence."

So, does "......" still sound like an affirmation of love to you? Does an "awkward silence" mean that you love someone? Of course not! In fact, we see the silence ellipse used in other Final Fantasy games...

From FFVIII:

Selphie: "Hmmmm... Squall! Hi! Wanna join the Garden Festival committee? You can help out whenever you have time. Please?"

Squall: "........."

Another scene from FFVIII:

Squall: "GOD!!!!!! Rinoa is going to die! ...I can't take it. Ellone, please. I've never felt this way in my life."

Ellone: "......"

From FFIX:

Snot-nosed Gudo: "Hey, you're...!" The other two children run off. After a moment, the Gudo does, too.

Vivi: "......" ("Are they... avoiding me?") Vivi steps forward and the children step back. "......"

Another scene from FFIX:

Vivi: "...Zidane. Those... black mages and I... Are we... the same?"

Zidane: "......"

Dagger: "......"

In all of these scenes the silence ellipse was used to denote annoyance (Squall with Selphie) or an awkward pause (Ellone with Squall, Vivi with the children of Dali, and Zidane and Dagger with Vivi). It was used in a place when the people involved didn't wish to answer or were put into a position where they felt awkward/embarrassed and didn't know what to say. Never was the silence ellipse used to show approval or reciprocation of feelings.

And, in regards to Cloud havin hawt secks wit teh big bubz... First of all, Cloud did not say anything to suggest he even reciprocated Tifa's feelings, nor did his actions suggest this. I mean, did anyone see Cloud try to comfort Tifa? All he did was sit there with his arms crossed while Tifa rested her head on his shoulder. I have seen some idiots spouting: "OMG, Tifa has her head on Cloud's shoulder! He loves her!" Yyyyyeah... okay... o_0 What did you expect Cloud to do, shove Tifa away? She is his friend! What would you do if a friend rested their head on your shoulder, seeking comfort? Would you shove them away? Surely not! Does it mean you love them romantically because you allow them to find comfort on your shoulder?

Second of all, Cloud is not the type to have casual sex. Cloud is not a "playah". It would be extremely out-of-character for Cloud to even hug someone, and you guys want me to believe he would actually nail Tifa on a pointy rock in front of God and everyone??? o_0 Cloud is the type of person that would wait to have intimate contact with a woman until he was totally comfortable with himself and with her. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Cloud was a virgin, considering the life he has had. And he certainly wouldn't jump into his first time on the ground under an airship with someone he has shown no interest in previously, someone who was mean to him in the past.

Thirdly, Cloud banging Tifa on the ground under the Highwind on a pointy rock is just wrong in so many ways... sick and wrong... I mean, he just lost Aerith, the Black Materia, Sephiroth... the world is coming to an end... Do you really expect he would just forget everything that has happened and jump Tifa's bones under the Highwind on a rock??? If so, you need professional help.

Fourthly, there was nothing to suggest that anything sexual happened after the screen faded out and then back in. In Xenogears, which was also made by Square, it was made clear when sexual contact was made (being naked in the bed together the next morning, for example). The next morning, Cloud and Tifa are sitting in the exact same spot, in the exact same position, fully clothed, hair in place, etc...

Fifthly, highly romantic moments in FF games are usually highlighted with an FMV, especially when it is reciprocated love. The scene in the cockpit between Squall and Rinoa in FFVIII did not receive an FMV. Why? Because Squall was still uncomfortable with expressing himself to Rinoa. You could tell that he cared for her, but Rinoa was the only one openly expressing it. However, later, when Squall rescues Rinoa, and they are reunited, you have an FMV of them hugging each other-- a reciprocated love. Later, at the end, you have an FMV of them kissing on the balcony at Balamb Garden. Again, a reciprocated love. In FFIX, Zidane and Garnet are shown hugging each other tight in the final FMV-- once again, they show that they love one another openly. In FFX, Tidus and Yuna are shown at the spring in a highly romantic moment of reciprocated love. They kiss, embrace, and caress one another. They are openly affectionate with each other. So, what about the Highwind scene? If it was so "romantic", where is the FMV? Is this because it is not a moment of reciprocated love? Yes. Tifa has feelings for Cloud, but he clearly does not feel the same when he remains silent. However, at the end, we see Cloud reaching for Aerith's hand at the beginning of the final FMV. Every FF game has a final FMV. However, the creators chose to include this moment between Cloud and Aerith in the FMV. The moment we see Cloud reaching for Aerith's hand is the only time in the game in which we see Cloud reciprocating the feelings of another. Cloud reaches for Aerith first, and then Aerith's hand appears from the Lifestream, reaching for him. This was the only romantic moment in the game, IMO. After that, we see the conclusion of FFVII with the rest of the final FMV.

So, why was Tifa embarrassed the next morning? Easy. She was seen crying and sleeping on Cloud's shoulder by their friends. This was made worse because Cloud showed no interest in her. Their friends saw all of this. Why wouldn't she be embarrassed? Tifa is generally a very shy person. This should be clear from the game as she was never able to open up to Cloud. And the fact that Tifa cries during the Highwind scene also negates any claims that this was a "romantic" evening.

Also, when Tifa is embarrassed on the deck of the Highwind, Cloud merely stands around and says nothing. If they spent the evening in each other's arms, wouldn't he be supportive? Well, yeah... And, if their friends did see them engaged in a "romantic tryst" under the Highwind, why isn't Cloud embarrassed? Simple-- he had nothing to be embarrassed about because nothing happened. There was nothing remotely romantic going on in Cloud's mind, so he didn't care that their friends saw Tifa resting on his shoulder.

Also, don't forget, there are at least three different versions of the Highwind scene. In the low affection version, Tifa never uses her famous line at all. Optional scenes are not proof of anything. -_-

Tell this dumb bitch that you don't care if she believes in love beyond death or not, because it is something that S-E clearly believes in. Just take a look at some of their other couples, besides ClAeris-- Vincrecia: Vincent continued to love Lucrecia even after she had died and continued to mourn her for years afterward. Sound familiar? Tiduna: Yuna lost Tidus when the Fayth were Sent to the Farplane. Two years later, we see Yuna still very much in love with Tidus, and searching for a way to be with him again. ShuLenne: Shuyin and Lenne died together and were separated. However, even after a thousand years apart, they still love one another and are searching for each other. And CloTis actually think it odd that Cloud still loves Aerith after 2 or 3 years? Plz... :rolleyes:

If you guys need help with LTDs, I would be happy to help you in this topic. But, I don't have the time to actually get involved in a LTD simply because of all the time it takes to reply to all the morons who bombard you with BS. Plus, since I am an old crone, it is bad for my ulcers and my blood pressure. :lol: I get sick of some little pisspot teen who has never actually been in love themselves preaching to me about relationships when it is clear that they are completely inept and ignorant. Most of the stuff I posted was copied and pasted right off my LT page. There's lots of stuff on there if you guys want to check it out. I haven't finished updating it, by any means, though.....

OMG ASHE FROM FFXII IS SUCH A NECRO! sHE STILL HAS FEELINGZ FOR HER DED HUSBAND!!!! :o :o :o

According to them, there sure are a lot of necrophiliacs out there! My grandma, my dad, my cousin, a few of my neighbors, a few of my professors I'm sure. Wow, just about every old person at least over the age of 80 must be a necrophiliac! Heck, even those people who lose their spouses and do get remarried, they must completely forget their first marriage and all the feelings they had for that person or else they're a necrophiliac! People who lose their friends, children, parents, grandparents or even aquaintences must stop loving them or else they're a necrophiliac! Because simply loving a person who has passed away is unhealthy and leads to necrophilia. Because you know, even if you're not humping the corpse, just simply still loving that person makes you a necrophiliac.

Oh yeah, and single people don't exist. Choosing to live a single life after the person you love has died automatically makes you a necrophiliac. The only way to avoid this is to marry the person you are closest to and is of the opposite sex.

Clotis sure have made me aware that necrophilia is a VERY popular fetish.

EDIT: I'm seriously debating with a child on this issue. First she asks who we think Cloud should end up with, and then as soon as someone had a different opinion than her she got all pissy.

I seriously swear that people forget that FFVII is just a video game.

Yeah, I forgot all about RaslerxAshe, yet another example of S-E using the "love beyond death" theme. It's really too bad for the CloTis that S-E so clearly believes in this concept. :whistle:

:lmao: *Loves teh sarcasmz* :lmao:

Thatz becuz disagreein wit a teenagr meenz U R 2 old an need 2 die rite now!!!!! U shuld agree wit evrythin they say!!! :tard:

OMG! Thanks for teh enlightening words! My whole entire family, from both of my parents' side, but reform ourselves! My aunt, who's been single for years! My grandma, who didn't love anyone else after grandpa passed away!

AND MEH, FOR NOT GETTING ANOTHAZ PET DOG AND CAT, 'CUZ IT'S NECRO TO EVEN REMEMBER YOUR OLD PETZ!

Yep, I totally understand, Rinchan.

:lmao:

Everyone is becoming necrophiliacs, huh? Guess you should add me to that list since I still love my kitty, even though he is dead. And my mom, because she's single. Jeez, there are TONS of single people today!! Teh Necroism is ruling the world!

*loves the sarcasim*

It makes me laugh that they have such an immature outlook on love. That you immediately have to not love a person after they have died and then shack up with someone else. I mean, c'mon, honestly. They apparently do not have a clue what real love is. *sigh*

Totllyy j00r stuupid and rong if u thinj dat we teenz r wrong cuz we r alwyz rite no matr wat!!!!!!!! lawlz0rz!!!! o ja, j00 r such a necro cuZ tifa iz hot and aerithz is ded so cloud cant be with hurr!!!! ClOuD&TiFa 4 evr!!!

...Oh man, that was hard. :)

Ok here is the deal with CloTi's, they think that just becuase someone is dead they can no longer be loved. However it is apparent with Cloud that Aerith is in his heart and shall always stay there. For god's sake you do not stop loving someone once they die!! Necrophile? I bet they don't even know what that means.