I decided to pin a topic where people can discuss DoC freely without having to worry about anyone whining over getting spoiled. I just started playing it recently and am really enjoying it. Of course, it isn't ranked up there with the usual FF games, but it is as good as FFX-2 anyways, IMO. I have a few observations/questions/opinions....

* The opening FMV- this was supposed to take place during FFVII, right after the Proud Clod was defeated and your party heads off to take on Hojo? Why'd they change things up? And where was everyone else? Why were only Yuffie and Vincent shown? And, was that Rufus Shinra on the stretcher? I saw someone in a white-looking overcoat, so.... :unsure: The whole FMV was just weird, because things were so different in the game.

* When Vincent encountered that hologram of Lucrecia, it appeared to be projecting from a sphere, just like in FFX! What is up with that?

* Wow, Lucrecia sure reminds me of Aerith! I mean, the chestnut hair tied back with a ribbon, the skirt with the slit in it.... If she had green eyes, she'd look like an older version of Aerith! And her personality is just as cheerful and upbeat as Aerith! However, there is a dark side to her, as well. The fact that she lowered herself to the level of Hojo, that she would experiment on her own child, is proof of that. Aerith would never do anything like that. But, the similiarities between Lucrecia and Aerith are certainly striking!

* Vincrecia is so similiar to ClAeris, it's unreal! Vincent hanging around in Lucrecia's cave like Cloud hanging around in Aerith's church; Vincent hearing Lucrecia's voice in a soft whisper, just like Cloud hears Aerith's; Vincent feeling as if he failed to protect Lucrecia, just like Cloud felt as if he failed to protect Aerith. And the scene with Vincent and Lucrecia in the flower field, OMG!!! :wub: So cute! And Lucrecia even did Aerith's little pose! Not to mention she called Vincent her bodyguard!

* The Shera was a ship that was salvaged, much like the airship in FFX was salvaged. No one is even sure what makes The Shera tick. Supposedly, it runs on some ancient power source. More ties to FFX, I guess. But, wow, I am curious about the origins of The Shera now. And the way they described the end of the world, with Omega taking the Lifestream and all life to another world.... Perhaps Spira was born from the end of Gaia? Or did people on Gaia find a way to go to another world? Interesting... I like all these cross-overs. Even the scene that showed the universe was similiar to the sphere Seymour showed Tidus and company of Zanarkand.

* Yuffie is getting on my nerves. She is just a bit too loud and energetic for me. It is pretty obvious that there are Yuffentine moments thrown in for fans. However, I noticed in one scene that Yuffie seemed to really be getting on Vincent's nerves. Yeah, I never understood this pairing (sorry Yuffentine fans). Yuffie is just too hyper and noisy for Vincent, who is a quiet, melancholy soul.

* I can sort of see Shelke developing feelings for Vincent down the road, since she has Lucrecia's data files and some of her memories. However, I can't ever see Shelkentine panning out. First of all... ew. :puke: How old is she, anyways, 10? Plus, for me, Vincent just doesn't work with anyone else but Lucrecia, much in the same way Cloud only works with Aerith. I can't see either of these guys with anyone but their true loves.

* And, LOL, I couldn't help but scream a bit when Cloud showed up! :lmao: Funny how he was in the back of the truck by himself (talking to his bike no doubt, which is between his legs an awful lot :whistle: ). Tifa and Barret sure looked cozy in the truck together, too....

I haven't been able to get as far as you have yet. I keep forgetting to use a Pheonix Down and get sniped at the wrong moment.

Shelke said in the game though, "Look at me, I will be turning 19 this year." I dont know how old Shalua is, but I wonder, are she and Shelke twins, or is Shalua older? I think that Shalua is probably the big sister.

*giggles at your comment about Cloud and Fenrir*

I too see the similarites in Vincrecia and Cleris, and I'm not even in Nibelheim yet!

Common belief in the fandom was that Cloud and the others were in the Northern Crater. I think not. AC clearly depicts that Yuffie and Vincent were there in Marlene's narration. And Vincent told Yuffie she should go to Cloud. I think it was absurd he'd ask her to run off to the crater all by herself. But I digress.

Anyways, the point in that scene is to show an important plot point that Shelke used, in which Hojo obviously managed to get hold of. Or to explain why they weren't there in the friggin' ending.

Personally, I really think that net dive plot device is poorly thought of.

Also, I find it funny no one thought of checking Hojo's pulse. Poor Vincent has to run when he could have just shot him at FFVII.

Er... more connections to the two games? I'm surprised no one even touched the file and left there for many many years.

And unfortunately damned for it, and changed the lives of many people because of it. But yeah, Aerith was more sensible and I think has a stronger moral standing.

Finally saw it, eh? I have to admit that was also one of my favorite scenes. Vincent is so cute being flustered like that.

Actually, the whole "the Ancients could be aliens theory" is not so far fetched because of DoC. The life energy migrates in the universe and implanted to another. Maybe the Cetras are special souls who can tap into the Lifestream of the planet and cultivate it. I wish Jenova's origins were given some information, I'm sure she has some reason why she has to serve as a parasite to the living world.

I see it that Vincent was still miserable from the dream he saw before he regained consciousness (and he still obsess about it for the rest of the game), not because she was talking random stuff in his ear.

I think Yuffie as a character gets on anyone's nerves, not just Vincent (and she's been doing that to him since Reminiscence), its been predated ever since she stole the materias in the original (even Aerith got mad at her, come ON people).

She had her quiet moments in DoC, it's just people usually notice the louder ones more.

Yuffentine moments? I personally don't see it. But it goes to show that SE does notice the fandom.

She's 19. But her mako radiation halted her aging process. So it's not sick.

I personally think that Shelke and Vincent had something going on there, where to is up in the air.

That's right! See?! SEE~! It's canon!!!

I agree with you on everything you said. I loved the game myself since I'm not a huge fan of RPGs. *Ducks from flying fruit* But the opening FMV was supposed to take place while Cloud and the rest were fighting Sephiroth, explaining Yuffie and Vincent's absence from the end of FFVII. ^_^

Also, I personally didn't see anything whatsoever between Shelke and Vincent. I saw Shelke acting on Lucrecia's feelings in her data but that was it. The only feelings I saw from Vincent were towards Lucrecia.

Agreed. Lucrecia is one of those people with insatiable curiosity and I guess it just overrides her morals at times. Kind of like in Fullmetal Alchemist when that guy used his daughter to make a chimera. When asked why he said, "Because I could." But, I think he was a bit insane, too.

I guess with Yuffie rescuing Vincent and the way he thanked her and she got all flustered seemed Yuffentine-ish to me. But, then again, there were plenty of moments thrown in for fans in AC, too. Besides the blatant ClAeris-ness, there were CloTi moments, ReTi moments, Barrifa moments.....

That is kind of the way I am seeing things so far, but I haven't finished the game. I am not sure what Shelke is going to end up feeling for Vincent with this influx of memories from Lucrecia. It is still up in the air for me because I haven't finished the game yet. I am just now on The Shera. But, I see absolutely zilch from Vincent for Shelke. He seems to be so in love with Lucrecia even now.

Random note: I think it is so awesome that Cid married Shera! Now, if we can just get Barret to marry Tifa....

For some reason, the quotes aren't working.....

She was just kidding and was taken aback that Vincent did thank her. I guess that's quite an un-Vincentlike of him to do.

*remembers the time Cloud said he thought Vincent was being cold in the original game, in which Vincent said he was cool. Mistranslation or not, it's funny as heck.*

LOLz. XD. Mental bearing > physical appearance to me. I'll call people sick if they think Shelke and Denzel would make a cute couple.

Me too! The power of tea compels them!!!

Agreed. -_- Shelke wouldn't make a good pairing with someone who is actually a child either. She is one of those individuals who is really better off single. She reminds me a bit of Claudia, the child vampire in the Vampire Chronicles. She looked like a little girl but was very much the manipulative woman. She wanted a grown-up body so badly and was very angry inside at being forced to remain a child forever.

Anyways, back on topic....

I loved the battle scene FMV!!! :hyper: So cool! Cloud on Fenrir rushing into battle, Vincent and Yuffie diving out of The Shera on their neato hover-board thingies, Barrifa Barret and Tifa shooting the hell out of everyone from their truck..... I didn't get to see what happened to Cloud, though. Rosso had better not hurt meh chocobo-headed hottie! :fury:

Cloud's been shot, skewered, tortured, mind raped and what have you in his entire career. He's not gonna be done in by a random woman in red (that for the record, I really really like Rosso, am clinging to the hope that she'd make a future appearance).

Actually I find myself worried about Fenrir than Cloud when I first saw that, it was a giant explosion.

I dunno, Rosso was pretty tough when I fought her, but it looks like she is good and dead now. I actually had a harder time with her than I did with Azul since she was so much faster than he was. I am now about to enter Deepground, which should prove to be interesting.... :P

Anyways, I noticed that Hojo is pretty cruel to Lucrecia. Things were not portrayed this way in FFVII (or maybe they didn't have enough time to show everything that happened). In FFVII you actually see Hojo and Lucrecia embracing like lovers. However, in DoC, she doesn't seem to love Hojo at all. Rather she seems to be in love with Vincent. Was this what was intended all along? Or did Nomura decide to go with what is most popular with the fans? Either way, it makes me happy. I never understood what Lucrecia saw in Hojo anyways. :blink:

Fixed your quotes, FFG. :)

If they can do it for Cloti in KH2, I don't see why the same can't happen for Vincrecia in DC.

*dodges bricks*

But hey, I'm a Hojo/Lucrecia fan, so don't mind me. :lol: And Hojo is so underdeveloped by Square anyway, that the way he feels towards Lucrecia can be manipulated either way.

Having not played DC, I just read that Lucrecia actually seemed more undecided between Hojo, Vincent and Vincent's father (...? Lots of parent-love going on with SE in the Compilation :giggle: ).

Yeah, that's how I saw Lucrecia too. She's not some evil wench who experimented on her baby just to be cruel. She's a scientist. (And hey, the same might be said for Hojo too, except he actually went insane whereas Lucrecia just died, but again--Hojo fan talking here.)

Probably wishful thinking on my part, but I don't suppose there's ANY mention of Gast at all? ^^;

If Tseng and Rufus managed to survive in FFVII, then there's hope for Rosso.

In FFVII, Vincent said that Lucrecia chose Hojo because she wanted to protect said scientist. Seeing DoC, I can safely state that he pulled that explanation out of his... cape.

Actually, the whole flashback scene of FFVII of Vincent holding Lucrecia's hand, her running off from him and her hugging Hojo was repeated in DoC (though the scene is... black, with no Nibelheim background whatsoever, and they're not legolized) complete with Vincent saying "As long as she's happy, I won't mind" line. So it's a nice nod to the original.

However there was an added plot device named Grimoire Valentine, who was never in the original game. Remember, Lucrecia began distancing herself from Vincent when latter accidentally discovered that she knew his dad.

From what the game was implying, Lucrecia chose Hojo so that she could drive Vincent away, driven by guilt in her part for Grimoire's death (though why that man she chose has to be Hojo was beyond me).

Or maybe it's some other thing: Shelke gave her opinion "despite his [Vincent's] age, he acts like a child, perhaps that's why she finds it so difficult" (or something, CG or someone else can correct me on this), and I never understood what she was getting at.

Actually, this pisses me off the most in this game. But no. Gast did not appear, nor was referenced, in the game. I guess I can understand, DoC was exploring the relationship of Vincent, Hojo and Lucrecia, and not the Jenova Project itself.

But it's annoying nonetheless.

Nomura may be involved in the Compilation, but I don't think he's deeply involved in DoC. He's just credited as character designer in the game (I LOLed when Nomura mentioned that he was given a vague description about Nero by the director, and he was asked to give him a bike, he settled for the metal wings instead XD).

But then again, he DID put Gackt in there, so maybe he's more whacked than I thought.

Ah, thank you, Lynn! :huggle:

That's very true. :P Like I said, I don't mind that a bit (big Vincrecia fan). I always thought Lucrecia loved Hojo, but continued to support Vincrecia anyways. It's nice that they changed it up so that it seems Lucrecia really did love Vincent.

I am really glad they clarified that. I was always curious about Lucrecia in FFVII and I kept hearing rabids declaring that she was a ZOMG EBIL BICTH LOLZZZZ. :rolleyes: It's nice to know that she is just misunderstood.

Too true, Anti! :lol: Does anyone know if that really was Rufus on the stretcher in the initial FMV?

Thanks for the explanation, Anti-R! I hadn't gotten that far in the game yet, I guess.

Yeah, that is pretty strange. Maybe Nomura is a Gackt fanboy. :lmao:

BTW, where the heck is Red XIII in this game? Does he ever show up? I saw Easter eggs of his FFVII silhouette in Edge (along with Cloud's silhouette and Aerith's face), but there's been no appearances nor any mention of him. *Demands more Red XIII* :fist:

The white coat and pants is a dead giveaway. Can't imagine anyone else fitting that description.

Which brings up the question why Yuffie never told anyone about him (since AC clearly shows that Cloud, even though he's acquainted with Reno and Rude after Meteorfall, was surprised to see Rufus alive), as he is practically their former arch-enemy.

Well I could subscribe the "Rufus' face was so horribly burnt that Yuffie didn't recognize him" theory, but that's too cruel to contemplate.

He appears in the epilogue. Taking a nap. 0.o;

Yeah, SE's pretty much ignoring poor Nanaki.

Good points, Anti-R... Plot holes, people, plot holes!!! :no:

Seriously??? That blows. <_< Red XIII had a kick-ass voice in AC (and one whole line to showcase that fact-- whoopee :grr:).

LOL I think Nomura IS a Gackt fanboy...I think he said in an interview that he'd been wanting to do a project with Gackt in it for a long LOOOOOONG time...

Back off Nomura! You're pretty, but Gackt is MINE! LOL :fist:

Bleh, this game was kinda horrible to me. I hated the camera angle's. I also hated the fact that the bosse's were always a pain. But however, i did like the cutscenes alot. I dont know why, they just attracted me alot in this game.

I love this game. XD It might have not had good camera angels, but I liked it. ^_^ The cutscenes were okay, but I mostly enjoyed the "Time to go, Fenrir." :wub: I like that line. :fangirl: I also think the Gackt ending was just sweet. XD Yeah! Nomura-san must be a Gackt fanboy. :lol:

Well, I finished playing DoC. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was a pretty good game. Unfortunately, I only ever found one of the "G Files", so I didn't get to see the "secret ending", but that's okay. I don't like using guides my first time through a game.

I didn't really care for the bit with Grimoire Valentine. It felt like they had stuck all that in at the last minute. I don't know, it just felt like a plot device that is obviously a plot device. Sort of like they rushed it? :unsure: And his look was... strange. He looked like an old vampire hunter from a B movie.

Anyways, the final FMV was really awesome! :hyper: The way Vincent said, "It was you." OMG! :fangirl: Then, he walked out of the cave, free from guilt. I sort of like the parallel here between Vincent walking out of the cave, free from guilt, and Aerith walking out of the church leaving a guilt-free Cloud behind. It doesn't mean that Vincent has stopped loving Lucrecia, just that he doesn't blame himself for what happened to her anymore. Likewise, just because Aerith walked off doesn't mean that she is leaving Cloud behind. And it doesn't mean Cloud will forget all about her just because he isn't wracked with guilt day in and day out.

And the tear that rolled down Lucrecia's face was so sweet/sad! :sad:

Anyways, it was amusing to note that Tifa actually spent more time interacting with Barret in this game than Cloud. :giggle: I really loved that they included Barret with Tifa and Cloud this time, instead of leaving him out. He is as much a part of the family as Cloud, and is Marlene's dad. Cloud, to me, just doesn't fit the role of "father figure". Barret, however, does.

Wow, I thought I was the only one who thought Grimoire was a bad plot device used as a wedge between Vincent and Lucrecia.

But yeah, the ending is nice. For awhile there Vincent feels confusion on Lucrecia's role on turning him into what he was now. I'm glad he realized that she did these things because she cared.

I know what you mean, Anti-R. And I am glad that Vincent realized that he wasn't to blame for Lucrecia's decisions either.

BTW, what happened to Shalua? :ermm: I saw her in her broken capsule at the end.... Did she die? :sad:

I think she died.

She did say goodbye to Shelke in one scene.

Poor Shalua. :cry: She had potential.

I loved the game too. I really don't care about how people say it sucked. It's just a different genre. What do they expect? :rolleyes:

Anyway, I think I'll still keep my usual Vincrecia rabid status. ^_^ I'll NEVER support either Vincent/Shelke or Vincent/Yuffie. EVER. >_< Almost as bad as Cloud/Yuffie in my opinion.

Off topic: Anti, I ADORE that art of Ashe in your signature! :wub:

Hee. Thank you. XD

No it's not. *runs off*

But yeah, am against to yuffentine as well. Vincent's too hung up on Lucrecia and Yuffie needs a dynamic person who can keep up with her personality. It's painfully obvious Vince cannot handle her.

...Still think Shelkentine is possible though...

I dunno, even as a shooter, it feels lacking.

But the story makes up for it, IMHO. Though most of the OCs in that game are blah (do I really want an antagonist #4532627 who laughs evilly saying he/she/they think humanity sucks in general therefore they deserved to be extinct? Sephiroth already beat that idea to death with a giant stick, darnit!), the heart of it, Vincent and Lucrecia's doomed romance, is nice. And it gives dimension to the mentioned characters.

And it's fun seeing the ShinRa building again, even if its reduced to a ruined heap (in both VII and AC).

I liked it...it's really my first FPS, unless you count Devil May Cry...but the story...Whoooo! I loved it.

Am I the only one confused here? Weiss had Hojo inside him...that's why he was all crazy like that, because of Hojo. After both himself and Nero became one (XD), they disappeared...it seemed he didnt really want to summon Omega, but instead he wanted to be with "G".

And yes, Shalua died...she asked Shelke if it was alright to go to the Lifestream now. I think at the end when the small sparkles of Lifestream were falling, she probably died for good. She had to have died anyway, that capsule was what was keeping her stabilized. I'm glad they showed her resting in one peice though, she could have been crushed in the Shera instead.

And, for the record....Hojo is just plain CREEPY!!! I wish I could have shot him instead of Weiss ;.;

The Weiss you see in the game is dead. Story doesn't explain the what, why and how that happened, he just is.

Nero was the one actually running the whole thing in an attempt to resurrect Weiss (insert incestous yaoi overtones here), but he was fooled by Hojo, who managed to upload his knowledge into that system that Shelke was using. Nero thought it was his brother when in actuality it was Hojo, who wanted to embody Omega Weapon using Weiss as a vessel.

He was foiled in the end, ironically by Nero. But that didn't stop the Weapon from emerging.

EDIT: CG, what Esper is that? Is it Ultima?

Nope, tis Mateus. ^_^ I LOVE her design.

DoC sure had an original twist to it's story. I think the story itself had huge potential if they decided to make it into a full blown RPG. The shortness of it was maddening for CG because she wants more. >_<

So... why didn't they make use of all of Vincent's Limit Break forms? Why only use Galian Beast and Chaos? What happened to Death Gigas and Hellmasker?

Maybe because Death Gigas and Hellmasker is... cheese?

No offense, but Frankenstein's Monster clone and Poor Man's Chainsaw Guy is more goofy than inspire fear to me. :/

well I can see why they didnt use Hellmasker...*shudders*

It would have been nice to see the other limit breaks though :( I think SE just wanted to get another product crammed down our throats.

That is kind of what I thought, too. Death Gigas and Hellmasker were a little bit... strange. :/ But, I wondered why they didn't try and make them a little less cheesy. They changed up Chaos, after all. And I kinda wanted to see a cooler version of his other two Limits. :(

I dunno. I guess laziness on the game designers as well (Vincent's limit breaks rely on random capsules? Don't think so). Chaos was only useable in the end, so...

Pitty, I was looking forward to some really nice Limit Breaks.

I haven't passed the game, but is there more magic besides Lighting and Fire? I just beat Azul, I'm near the end, and those are the only magics I have. I haven't been playing because FFXII replaced it. :lol:

Yeah, you can get Blizzard, too. :D

Unfortunately those are the only ones you can use though...I guess Cure isnt really necessary as you can buy things around just about any corner..I mean...how many times, before the big battle, did they let you shop? I remember that during one battle, there was a jukebox to buy things in @_@...of course, with Galian Beast, you can automatically regain HP by transforming.... bah, the enemy was done for after that anyway!

I think that Shula is 24 years-old. If Yuffie and Vincent were in Midgar, it probably would've been after Meteorfall. Besides, there was alot of rubble and I think they were at Shinra building evacuating wounded personal.