I was wandering dose anyone else think the same as me about. Harry Potter I read every book like a madman and most of the books gave me a theory. About Harry and Hermione.
They whould make a perfect couple what do you think.

Consider the following Hermione has all ways been their for Harry even when he dident know she was looking over him sounds a bit like Cleris.

book four she helped him to reasearch about Dragons and just before he left for the first round of the triwizard cup she coulden't bare to let him go.
And of course the littel peck on the cheek.

Everyone I know say Ron and Hermione will become a couple. Because they allways argue with each other and they say oh it's a Love hate relationship but i have allways wanted H/HR to get together and become a couple.

So who else around here is a Harry and Hermione pairing fanatic like me I want to hear your views on this topic thanks.

Harry and Hermione seem to have a more brotherly-sisterly relationship to me. I prefer Ron and Hermione together, but Harry x Hermione is kinda cute.

By the way, I'm gonna move this to the Music/Movies/Anime/Games section.

Out of curiosity, is it true that the Harry Potter couple wars is worse than the Cloti/Cleris war??

Yeah, it's much, much, much worse, Shroudie. When Half Blood Prince came out the whole shipping fandom went completely insane. It was lovely to watch.

Seriously?? It was that bad huh? It's a shame I totally missed that. I never actually read the books, but I watched all the movies. To be honest, I always thought it was Harry and Hermoine though. It never totally occured to me that something was going between Ron and her till I watched the Goblet of Fire.

Well, if you're brave enough to read through pages and pages of hysteria, I've got a link to the report on Fandom Wank. Some of the links in the report are broken now, but there's still a lot there to take a look at if you want. Spoilers and profanity ahoy though, so be careful. :lol:

EDIT: Here's a few links to some FW Wiki entries on the shipping wars too.
Info on H/Hr
Info on R/Hr
Links to shipping drama

Awesome! Thanks. :lol: and you know me already, I like chaos and insanity. :P

Ho snaps! *clicks on the link as well* :lol: I've always been interested in the HP fandom wars, since I've heard so much about it!

Honestly, I'm a Harry/Hermione fan too. :lol: Ever since I started reading the books and watching the movies. But yeah, I agree that it's purely fanon. The latest book pretty much canonized Ron/Hermione, right there. :lol:

Ahhh, but the plot thickens, some people are saying that there's hope for Harry and Hermoine in book seven! :whistle: I'm guessing this war isn't over yet. :P Although the author already said that it was Ron and Hermoine the whole time, kinda hard to argue against that though.

Edit:

I'm liking this, she really put a lot of thought into it.

http://sienna291973.livejournal.com/3399.html

Wow, and the people who replied in there are really rubbing it on.

When I first started reading Harry Potter, I was in 5th grade. Back then, all I saw in terms of romance was the hero and his good female friend. It was enough for me to route for Harry and Hermione to get together.

Once the 4th book came along, I think I began to see the adorable chemistry going on between Ron and Hermione. Since then, I've slowly but surely become more of a fan of the latter couple. Now they're pretty much canon.

She must've really cared about Harry and Hermione. I don't know this person, but first impressions tell me that she's more bothered by the fact that her OTP is fanon than she wants to admit. And although she has some valid points in saying that J.K. Rowling isn't the best author in the world, I think she fails to recognize that Rowling's story-telling more than makes up for it. It's pretty rare for me to enjoy literature this much when the writing is only mediocre. But hell, they're great stories. And I think it's just a tiny bit silly for this person to give up loving Harry Potter because they lost the shipping war. Just my opinion.

I am actually more of a Harry and Hermione fan too, even though I thought early on that *Spoiler* that he would date Ginny. I guess I am not always a fan of the love/hate relationships...except with another couple Leia and Han from Star Wars. I love the way their relationship develops. But that is neither here nor there.

That being said I think Ron and Hermione are cute together.

Shrouded Light: I couldn't say for sure but since you just watched the movies I think I understand why you thought Harry and Hermione. In my opinion I think the actors have really good chemistry together. Emma and Daniel just seem to click and look adorable, especially in Goblet of Fire. I don't see that chemistry with Rupert and Emma. But that is just how I see it. Am I correct or way off in left field?

The thing is, when I read the books, I'm seeing this adventure beside Harry Potter, the reader gets to see his head, so to speak. If he has romantic notions with Hermione, he would have said something way way WAY before. We saw how he acts to a girl he likes (aka Cho), so I never believed there was any romance going on between him and best friend.

I already saw the Ron/Hermione a mile away since Prisoner of Azkaban, actually. o.0;

I'm more of a Scott and Luna shipper actually!

I'm a Hermione and Ron shipper, Harry doesn't seem right for Hermione, as was previously stated, he's almost brotherly. I prefer Harry with someone like Ginny, but I've not read the 6th book yet, so I'll just have to wait and see.

And I'm gonna have a good read at those links later!

And you MUST read this if you're a Harry Potter fan: http://community.livejournal.com/m15m/2237.html

Be warned though, quite a bit of swearing but it's hilarious.

I've always been a Harry/Hermione shipper, and I always will be. I've never really liked love/hate relationships, and I honestly think sometimes that the only thing that Hermione and Ron have in common is Harry. I guess I'm one of those die hard fans- I know I was super hacked off when JKR made H/G and Hr/R cannon, but I wouldn't have minded it as much if she hadn't called the H/Hr fans delusional! :mad: Not a very wise thing to tell your fans, in my opinion.

But even if H/Hr isn't cannon, I still like it anyway, because I simply believe that Harry and Hermione are suited for one another. I prefer my delusion to the reality :P It's just, well, I hear all the Ginny shippers going off about how much like Lilly she was, and how much like James Harry is, so they make the perfect couple, but the way I saw it, I always thought Hermione seemed more like Lilly. You know, they both were super smart, protected those unpopular kids, hated breaking the rules. . .*sigh* I dunno, I hate arguing with the others in the fandom, because believe you me, things can get awefully scary out there, almost as bad, if not more so, than the FFVII pairing wars. *shudder*

Wasn't it Emerson that called H/Hr shippers delusional, not JKR? I can't find the interview they did with her but I'm sure that it was either Emerson or Melissa who said that, and JKR said she'd tell H/Hr shippers to read the books again.

Hermione (when she was a prefect!) made some pretty snide remarks towards Luna! :cry: (I'm her fanboy, what can I say).

I think Hermione could never be with Harry because she'd be too annoyed at everything he does. Taking tips from a book which has been graffitied on for example. And many other adventures he decides to take them on.

Maybe it's because I find Harry unbearbaly annoying in OotP and HbP that I wouldn't like Hermione with him. Ron is being moody, but it's jealousy (IMO) and it's still interesting to see him act this way. Where-as Harry is too much set on going to get himself killed. Wonderful.

Ya know, I've heard a lot of fans say this. Harry was too bitchy, and pissed off in books 5 and 6. I didn't think he was that pissy in the 6th book, but I actually liked who he started becoming in book 5.

*Spoilers*
To start with, he had a MAJOR reason to be so angry. Maybe it's just me, but I'd be pissed as hell if the entire wizarding world thought that I was not only a liar but also delusional. But I loved how he started taking matters into his own hands. If you know me really well, you know that I love all of that rebellion against oppression/revolution stuff (hell, I quoted V for Vendetta in my sig XD). So when Harry started that whole Dumbledore's Army thing, I fell in love with his character. And how he would serve the detentions with Umbridge, carving "I will not tell lies" into his own arm as if it didn't bother him at all. In book 5, Harry stood up against the oppressor, and wouldn't take any shit from anyone. I loved that. Viva la DA! It's probably why Order of the Pheonix is my favorite.

Come on, give Harry some credit. His parents are dead, his enemy is after his hide, he grew up with the Dursleys and two people he was very close to died right in front of his eyes. It sucks to be him. Hermione and Ron grew up with parents and technically had normal lives.

Harry, like most lead characters in fiction, has a hero complex in which he acts on. Seriously though I really feel in the first three books he should spared himself the trouble and actually talk to Dumbledore.

Again on Ron/Hermione, I'm really into couples who fight each other when actuality they were trying to fight their attraction. It's childish, true, but there was a sense of honesty in that. I mean it's been there since Pride and Prejudice.

[QUOTE=Scott,Aug 2 2006, 05:04 PM] [QUOTE=Alantie,Aug 2 2006, 04:34 PM] protected those unpopular kids, [/QUOTE]
Hermione (when she was a prefect!) made some pretty snide remarks towards Luna! :cry: (I'm her fanboy, what can I say). [/QUOTE]
I love Luna too! ^_^ She kinda reminds me of myself to be honest ^_^ I tend to be a bit on the absent minded side and have been called wierd and strange very often :D

But let's face it, no one is perfect. Hermione isn't going to be nice to every single person in the world and defend every unpopular person. I was more reffering to Hermione's defending Neville and the girl I can't remember her name. . . the one with the pimples? *curses memory lapse* And also her campaining of the House Elves thing. That's just the sort of thing that Hermione does, you know?

As for Harry, I agree with you Anti-R. Give the poor boy a break! We saw a side of him that wasn't necissarily his best in book 5, but then, think about all the pressure and strain he was under, and how he acted about Cedric's death. I actually liked his character in book 6, he seemed much more mature, but still himself, as opposed to Hermione's character that seemed to totally be shredded <_<

The pairing thing all depends on your tastes in relationships. For the most part, I go for pairings that have a deep connection, similarities, and peace, instead of those intense firey love/hate things. Not that there's anything wrong with those kind of relationships, its just your preference on the relationship, you know? I like H/Hr because of that whole calm, deep love thing.

[QUOTE]Madame Batolli Posted on Aug 2 2006, 04:55 PM
QUOTE
I guess I'm one of those die hard fans- I know I was super hacked off when JKR made H/G and Hr/R cannon, but I wouldn't have minded it as much if she hadn't called the H/Hr fans delusional! Not a very wise thing to tell your fans, in my opinion. [/QUOTE]


Wasn't it Emerson that called H/Hr shippers delusional, not JKR? I can't find the interview they did with her but I'm sure that it was either Emerson or Melissa who said that, and JKR said she'd tell H/Hr shippers to read the books again. [/QUOTE]

*scrunches forehead* Maybe it was. *shrugs* I'm not sure. If you find that interview, let me know?

EDIT: Oh man. .. lol, I just found this image. . . is it wrong that this made me laugh? :ermm: *spoiler for book 6*

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c336/Sta...mbledore7ll.gif

:lmao: Holy carp, I think I almost experienced death by laughing. A horrible thing to laugh over, I know (especially when it made me cry like a baby during the sixth book). But still funny as hell.

I agree with you Anti-R and Alantie. Like I mentioned briefly before, who wouldn't be angry in his situation? His life basically sucks. Besides all of the lack of popularity issues he has and the death of his parents, he basically has an evil mass murderer chasing him who's been stalking him and ruining his life since he was a baby. Seriously, that has to blow big time.

I liked him in book 6 too, but I think I really started appreciating his character in book 5: Revolutionary Harry Potter. Not to mention that's when he really started to appear magically talented. Before the fifth book, he was always just okay at magic which bothered me a little. But in Order of the Pheonix, the fact that he starts teaching everyone advanced Defense Against the Dark Arts magic finally let's us see the innate talent he has.

:lmao: That image made me LOL.

Oh, Alantie, I found the interview. It was Emerson who called H/Hr fans delusional.

Source: Mugglenet

:lmao: I'm glad you are all enjoying that image- so funny, but so wrong, rofl. I did cry too about that scene in 6 too, Sadhana.

Ah, thanks Madame! Now, I must find this Emerson and carry out my revenge :devil:

Regardless of whether H/Hr is cannon or not, I still like the pairing. I will admit that H/G and Hr/R are the couples that JKR has made cannon, but that doesn't mean I have to like it :P

What kind of bothers me is that some of the other shippers just assume that the H/Hr shippers hate Ron and Ginny, kind of the way Clotis assume we Cleriths hate Tifa. Not true. I enjoy Ginny as a character, I really do, and Ron is always good for a laugh though he's not my favorite character *I also adore Tifa*. But like I've already stated, the pairing thing is all up to your own personal preference for romance. JKR has spoken as to her own personal preferences :lol:

Concerning Ginny: the only thing I really have against her is that she seems to have pushed Hermione out of the spotlight for main female character. And it was all rather sudden. Ginny played a key role in book 2, but then she kind of fades out, mentioned occasionally, then at the ending of OotP she's brought in as a really cool kick butt girl, and really seemed to take over Hermione's role in book 6. I wish JKR had brought Ginny in gradually more and more through the books rather than throwing her at us in chunks, but then, what is done is done. Book 6 really made Hermione out to be a completely different person, and I was really quite startled by it all. :sweat: She did not act like herself, and I was very upset by it. But, meh, like I said, what is done is done. I can only hope to see her brought back to her old self in book 7!

I've stayed out of discussing the Harry Potter stuff for quite some time, because I've just gotten fed up with the way people keep bashing each other. *sigh* Some of my stuff is outdated. I should make my way back to Mugglenet. *wanders off*

Sadhana

Well she did freely admit that she "expected more out of J.K.R", but you know how the saying goes, "Everybody is a critic." She's free to say whatever she feels like saying in the internet.Also, at least she was honest about it and that's all it matters. However, that's really not going to stand in a debate simply because she fell into the usual "the author should have done this and that instead of this and that." I really hate it when people say that in an argument thinking they've already established their authority on how a "story should be written".

Aerisbolt

Well, it's somewhat similar, but it more around the setup of the movie. You know, Harry being the main character and Ron being the bumbling sidekick and Hermoine being the only female counterpart until Goblet of Fire. I mean, I would think that the main character would go with its female counterpart and not the bumbling sidekick. I know it a very simple outlook at these characters but I never really put much thought into it. They were kids, at that age "love" isn't really an issue for them until they showed growth in Prisoner of Azkabhan/Goblet of Fire.

I kind of like Harry/Hermione. When the books first came out, I was sure it was going to he H/Hr. Then around book 4 I realized it was probably going to end up Hr/R, and I've come to like their friendship over a romance. Although I do think Movieverse!Hr/H is sweet.

To be honest, I don't like Hr/R. It just doesn't sit right with me. They may date, it may even turn out to be first love, but I can't see it as a happy ending with Ron and Hermione raising 38.2 kids on a farm. Ron has had 6 books to start growing up, and he hasn't. He's overly jealous and still doesn't know how to handle Hermione. They clash, and I see any sort of romantic relationship they might achieve crumbling because of it.

Also, I think Hermione needs someone she can share her ideas with, someone who she can talk to about culture and books. Ron usually snorts at her ideas, beliefs, and I can't see him doing anything cultural with her.

I sometimes like couples that bicker, but only when I feel that they actually challenge each other. When Hermione and Ron bicker, it just gets on my nerves. If yelling at each other is the only way they can communicate (and they hardly bicker about anything of importance)...I just don't see it as romantic.

Movie!Hermione is a load of pinky-girly crap, IMHO. They changed the prissy intellectual we know into an unrecognizable Mary Sue. So I sure as hell wouldn't use the movies as a basis for any relationship as she is so hideously OOC in them.


This essay explains better than I can why I am against H/Hr
Dyou Really Think They're Suited

Pls don't hurt me. I just take my lil cusins to the movie because they think Harry is hawt. I mean seriously, I don't really know how deep the plot is. ^^;;;

Pink-girly? Hmm. I really thought they overplayed her as the kickass heroine, especially in PoA. For me, I just view the books and the movies seperately. I like certain characters/pairings more in the movieverse than in the bookverse.

Hermione is a bit overexaggerated in the movies, but doesn't JKR oversee each movie being made? If they took Hermione in a direction she didn't like, I'm sure she, the author, would say something.

If you are reffering to me about the movie thing, I just said that I like the H/Hr relationship better in that verse. That's all. I'm not pulling out proofz or anything from the movie to justify H/Hr, since in case I haven't made it clear, I'm not that big a fan. I kind of like it and think it's cute, but I hardly ship it.

I agree. I'm not an H/HR shipper by any means. In fact, from Book 2 to Book 5 I was hoping for the couples that were actually made canon in the book, including H/G. I was happy when Hermione and Ron started getting together, but I couldn't be more disappointed at how H/G actually came about in Book 6.

To me, Rowling Mary-Sued Ginny up big time. In her interview with mugglenet she claimed that Ginny was Harry's equal, his ideal woman. And I'm like, why? Because she's super special and pretty? Because she likes to give people lip? Since when is getting in people's faces (even your own brother's, not to mention taunting him on a touchy subject when all he did was show brotherly concern for you) an upstanding quality? I don't care how much girl power you think you have, if you get into someone's face, don't think they're not gonna punch yours, cuz they will. Hell, I sure as hell would. There were so many times I wanted to take a crowbar to Ginny-Sue's skull, especially for practically using two perfectly good guys to get Harry's attention. What a bitch.

It's really a shame because I loved Ginny in the first few books and, like I said before, I was routing for her to get with Harry. I mean, even if the fifth book, she showed that she was a strong person and I thought she was cool! But JK put all that 'character development' stuff into overdrive in the sixth book and it was too much, too soon. Suddenly Ginny was so beautiful and popular that Harry could walk into a room filled with random people and just happen to hear them talking about how fanciable and amazing and pretty and popular and awesome and beautiful and popular Ginny is. WTF?

Plus 'the monster inside Harry's chest' showed itself too late. I mean seriously, where is this coming from? From going to 'Who's that?' in Book 2 to 'Hm? Oh hey Ginny' *walks away* in Book 3, 4 to 'Oh Ginny talks?' in Book 5 to 'Wow Ginny's so hot - I LURVE HER!!!!' in Book 6. JK could have spent book 5 developing their relationship. Even while he was with Cho, she could have had him develop his relationship with Ginny especially since it was then that he was just discovering Ginny's true outspoken self. He may not even realize what that relationship is, but start something between the two of them, so that when Book 6 comes along, his feelings for Ginny don't seem so sudden. Man, JK totally dropped the ball there. And yet she still insists that the couple is sooo write for each other. Well I couldn't disagree more, but what can I do? The author's obviously convinced that she made an omg teh perfect couple. It's her story so she can do whatever the hell she wants and those of us who hate it are gonna have to grit our teeth and take it if we wanna read the last book.

Oh and you guys are right, Emmione totally sucks XD

nyrin, wow, you just hit the nail on the head. That's exactly how I came to feel about Ginny and G/H, which stinks because I liked her and their relatioship in book 2.

And one thing that just bugs me: when she told Hermione to shut her mouth because she didn't understand Quidditch? I was like, "Yeah, this is only the girl that read every Quidditch book in the library in her first year and spent the next 3 years watching every game!" <_<

I want the old Ginny back!

I'm so glad we're on the same page Zelda and nyrin concerning Ginny's character! I too rather thought she was 'Mary Sued' in book 6, which was a big disapointment. She was suddenly center of attention, good at everything, everyone loved her, etc. It bothered me, because that wasn't the way I saw Ginny at all. I liked her characterization better in the other books, and it book 6 it was as if she completely changed.

Rofl, too true! That really is how it happens! Maybe Ginny/Harry wouldn't bother me so much if there had been more leading up to Harry's feelings for her in the books. I mean, its all sudden, not him noticing her gradually, accepting her as a close friend or anything. We've always known that Ginny fancies Harry, there just wasn't anything recieved from Harry until book 6.

Whoa, I didn't recall the scene where Ginny told Hermione to shut it about Quidditch! What was up with that? I mean, I thought Hermione and Ginny were supposed to be friends! :blink: And Ginny being Harry's equal? Erm. . . okay. . . how? Because she's all of a sudden Ms Popular? But then, it seems like everyone's character got really trashed in book 6, besides Harry. It was like, "Okay, Harry is more mature, grown up, and more himself again, and the rest of you go bonkers." *shrugs* Though JKR might claim otherwise, I feel book 6 was maybe a bit rushed, and that she should have taken a bit more time on it.

Kusari Yarou, I read through that essay, and while I think the author has made some really good points, there are some that are more matters of opinon than anything. Like the Harry finding Hermone unnattractive. I remember somewhere, I believe it was in OotP when Harry and Cho are having problems because Harry had to go meet Hermione. Hermione says something like this to Harry, "Oh, and you should have told her how ugly you think I am." Then Harry responds, "But I don't think you're ugly." Grah, its too early in the morning for this, but maybe later I'll argue some more. I can understand though why people feel the way they do about the H/Hr relationship.

I myself could care less whether Daniel and Emma get together. It really doesn't matter to me. Though it would be rather cute. :)

I agree, Hermione's movie personality does seem rather more extreme than her book personality, but then, I think that's more a matter of opinion than anything.

Actually, Hermione was never a big fan of Quidditch. She prioritizes grades and books over sports. Remember the time she and the two boys got mad at each other over a new broom (from Sirius, which I forgot the brand name). It was a ridiculous fight, and Hermione has every right to do what she did, even if that means wrecking Harry's spot in the team that year. The guys certainly doesn't think so.

It's like me watching with my brother when he sees wrestling. I know every move and the people in the ring but that doesn't mean I like the sport.

And why do people get upset over this line? As if Harry and Ron and Hermione never snap at each other in annoyance in the books over the years. And they're best friends who faced death together too many times to count. It's normal.

Actually I had a lot of issues with the movieverse HP as well. Emma keeps raising her eyebrows everytime she talks (which distracts me), Ron was too wussified, and Harry... is well... I dunno. Dan did get better in GoF. I hope that continues.

While Hermione does perfer books and is basically useless on a broomstick. It's even true she doesn't hold Quidditch as high as Ron or Harry. But Ginny told her to shut her trap as though she had no idea what she was talking about, which was uncalled for. Whether she likes it or not, the girl knows what she's talking about. She's already proven she has photographic memory, and she devoured Quidditch books her first year. She's been to every game Harry and Ron have ever played. She helped the team when they were out in the rain. So...like it or not, she still knows what she's talking about.

Because they don't do it all the time. Friends fight sometimes, yes. But Ginny got it into her head to be bitchy to anyone who annoyed her. On the train, when that boy was asking her questions about Voldemort, she hexes him. Why? Because he was curious that an overpower evil that could kill him and everyone he loves is back?

:lol: I felt the same way! Book 6 felt like fanfiction to me, honestly.

That really is true, huh? I was at first sure there was a mistake. I was like, "Did JKR just steal some fanfiction and make it into her book?" Many of the characters were exstreamly OOC, and with no reason for it in many cases. It was as if aliens took over every one except Harry. *shudder* It just made me sad is all, to see so many great characters trashed completely.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say Zelda. Hermione might not like the game, but she understands it, having read the book and watched it played for years. It was just rude and unnecissary for Ginny to snap at her like that, especially when we all know that Hermione understands the game perfectly well. Maybe in fact, better than some of the crazed fans, because she watches (usually) through unbaised eyes. She isn't going to go bonkers over the game like everyone else, but she understands the rules and knows what's going to happen on the playingfield.

Sigh, I guess I should explain this better. Try to think of it this way. It's like a person watching from the sidelines trying to tell a professional baseball player how he should hold his bat. This is how I felt Ginny was trying to convey. They're all stressed enough as it is already.

Hermione doesn't know what it's like in the actual field, since she was never a player who has to fly around, watch out from collision and getting the ball. Reading about it and experiencing it first hand are two different fruits.

And Hermione caused zits on the girl who betrayed them, and Harry hexed Draco for being a jerk. Oh, and the twins causing a moat because they hate their headmaster.

Yeah, Ginny is SUCH a bitch. It's ok for the rest of the characters to do that to other people because their victims were evil. Makes sense, huh?

Strange. I never felt that when I first read it. Then again, I make it a point to veer away from HP fanfiction, since there are some authors out there who believed they make better HP stories than JK Rowling. I dunno if I should feel offended by this or laugh at the presumption, since those authors had no imagination to make their own stories.

I was slightly sad that Ginny and Harry was suddenly put there as a pair, though I did see their build up in OoTP. I was hoping for a more subtle piece of work.

Er, I believe what she means is that Ginny hexed a person who was just asking questions, you know? Isn't that a bit different from hexing someone who betrays you?

How is that different? Maybe it's just me, I never did like how the HP characters do juvenile ways to people they didn't like, or annoy them, or do it just because for the heck of it.

Yes, this is right, it is different. People are generally annoying. People will always do things that you may think is annoying (even if nobody else does). You can't punish people just because of your own opinion. Then everyone could just hex everyone for little to no reason. I could hex anyone on this board for not sharing my exact opinion. Does that make sense? Yet Hermione hexed someone who BETRAYED them. After swearing to do the contrary, she ratted them out, which not only could have compromised their mission (in training real DADA that can save lives in the future) but could have gotten them all suspended. These consequences are high enough that I didn't mind Hermione punishing her for her stupidity. That is NOT the same as 'oh damn this guy won't stop talking' *hex*.

If the world worked by this way of thinking, then nobody would be allowed to say anything about anything unless they've experienced it first hand themselves. Which would mean there'd be no critics in the world, no ppl to review books like these, movies, food, or anything. Not to mention it would destroy freedom of speech as we know it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, even if Hermione isn't a Quidditch player, she has every right to offer her opinion based on what she knows. If I were Hermione I wouldn't appreciate some girl commanding me to shut my mouth just because I'm not a Quidditch Player. So what, whenever they talk about that particular subject I should just make sure I keep my mouth shut tight until they change to a different topic because Princess Ginny says so? Whether she likes it or not, people have every right to use their knoweldge on a subject to offer an opinion about it. I've never made a movie in my life, and yet I'm studying film and video entertainment culture. Despite not being involved in the film process, I can probably teach a class about the different types of genres, their expectations and its impact on culture.

On top of everything, Ginny was just being a bitch, plain and simple. You can explain it away by saying she was stressed, or whatever, but it doesn't make it any less bitchy, and if she were to do that to me, even knowing what reasons she had for doing it, I still wouldn't hesitate to return the bitchy favour. Anyway, I really just want to make things clear. I never liked the idea of H/Hr, but now and days, I'd ALMOST rather read a fic featuring that couple than re-read Book 6 which featured Harry with his 'ideal woman'.

The thing that people don't seem to understand is that there's a big problem with the concept of Girl Power in today's modern world. Through the media and well - um - the media, people have come to confuse a Strong Woman with a Bitch. Let me make things clear: a strong woman is someone that's confident, indepedant and intelligent. Someone that won't take shit from anyone, right? But confidence DOESN'T mean arrogance. 'Not taking shit' doesn't mean practically attacking (verbally or otherwise) people when you *think* they're being a pain. Ginny has displayed both these negative qualities.

I mean, hexing someone just cuz they're bothering you? And what's with flying her broomstick into ___'s (some Hupplepuff Guy) Commentator Box just cuz he wasn't kissing Gryffindor's ass during the game? Lee Jordan used to completely knock the other houses during games, and people practically threw him wreathes of flowers for it. And yet when someone does the same to Gryffindor, oh no, he's gotta go. What galls me most is that this bitch didn't even get a reprimand for it. I can understand the other Gryffindor kids cheering her on, being immature students after all, but what about McGonagall? I mean, she was all like 'Oh my stars and garters!' and that's it. The real McGonagall would have verbally slashed her throat before throwing her in detention so fast Ginny would be cleaning frog defecation off the walls before even she knew what was going on. And yet we can't have that, because Ginny's so super cool and special.

I wanted Harry to get with Ginny, but not with THIS Ginny. Strong women are to be commended and emulated. But you know what? There's nothing admirable about a loud mouthed bitch.

Wait a minute. You can claim her that she's a Mary Sue (because people love her) AND a bitch (because she tells them off without reconsidering the person's feelings)? That's a first really. I never met a Sue like that.

And I wouldn't appreciate someone butting in and telling me how to do my job, just because they tell me they know better. I don't care if Hermione was actually God who was trying to lead me in a happier place, it's called professional pride. And you'll meet a lot of people like that in the future. Ginny was short-tempered. It was her character flaw, like most of the HP characters. I much prefer this girl than the little girl in the past books who runs off blushing whenever she gives Harry cards. I'll expect that from a 12 year old, thank you very much.

Ironically, Hermione encouraged that behavior and "be herself". I guess she should blame for that as well.

Everyone is super cool and special. Harry is, Hermione is. Harry breaks school regulations at a drop of a hat and yet he's still in Hogwarts. I don't see people biting him for that misbehavior.

Hoo Boy, then you don't know Sues I'm afraid. Sues come in all shapes and sizes, including the BitchiWitch, which is specific to the Harry Potter fandom. You can learn more by joining certain lj comms likes deleterius.

I don't recall Hermione telling anyone that she knows better than they do. She was giving an opinion.

The only problem is, it's not a character flaw unless it's recognized within the book as a flaw. A person can be as bitchy as bitches come, but if it's treated as something cool and amazing and gutsy in the book, it's not considered the flaw. What matters here is what the author intended. The author inteded for Ginny's meaner traits to be treated as cool, thus she's continously admired and praised for her meaner actions (like hexing that kid, or running her broomstick into that commentators box) else she's just not reprimanded (like how nobody told her off for dissing Hermione or Ron - in fact in the latter case, she was defended quite nobly by Harry, despite the fact that both Weasley siblings were at fault). In that case, we can't consider these things as character flaws.

I'll reiterate what I said. There's nothing wrong with creating a strong female character who's outspoken and tough. But there's a difference between confidence and arrogance, between a strong girl and a rude little bitch.

Except Harry gets in trouble - constantly. He saves the day each year and yet he's been in detention probably the most times out of the trio. On top of that, there have been times when Harry's been treated like utter shit because he's so special (like in the Goblet of Fire). Harry certainly has been both applauded and punished for his actions. In Book 5, he was told off constantly for his rude behaviour. Rowling didn't let him get away with being a jerk. On the other hand, Ginny's only been applauded and praised for her bitchy behaviour. Everyone who doesn't like her or who doesn't agree with her can be dismissed as being crazy jealous (like that girl who was after Harry in Book 6) or on 'teh omg!eeebil' dark side of the force (like the Slytherins on the train). There's no comparison to be made between this character and the others. Ginny could have been a very good character if she had been developed more carefully over the course of the books. That, in my opinion, was Rowling's mistake (which she makes, as someone who is not perfect).

Oh man, lol. Now I remember why I've stayed out of discussing Harry Potter for so long. *sigh* Ok, here it goes:

Thank you, I'm glad you got what I meant. Its just retarted and immature of Ginny to do something like that, you have to admit that. If I went around hexing people for asking questions just because I was annoyed, there would be an awefully lot of hexed people out there. :P Hermione was hexing someone in order to protect the DA, a group of people who were going to be in serious trouble with retarded Umbridge if they were caught. And its not like Hermione singled that girl out, she placed the hex so anyone who betrayed them would get the same treatment, unlike Ginny, going off on a random person who dared to ask her highness a question.

Definition of a Mary Sue? A character who basically can do no wrong in the eyes of the other characters around her (even if she is a bitch), a character who steals the spotlight from others perhaps more deserving of it, one who is beautiful and desirable the most etc. It goes on and on. I can say as a FF writer, I despise the Mary Sues, and Ginny turned into one in book 6. Everyone suddenly loved her, she became the most popular girl, everything she did, regardless of whether it was good or not, was admired.

I don't know about you, but I prefer that blushing, timid Ginny to what she's become. Of course she was going to grow up, that was to be expected, but I didn't expect her to grow up into what she is now. Just because someone is blushing and shy about giving cards to their crush doesn't necissarily make them a twelve year old either. And a strong person could still become embarrassed and shy around someone she likes. Ginny had her own kind of strength when she was that sweet shy girl opposed to the (forgive me Ginny lovers) stuck up twit she's become. She's praised for being cruel to others (rather like the way James Potter and his gang were for a time, remember? He and his friends weren't nice to people like Snape and others admired them for it, but that doesn't make it right).

Like nyrin said, I don't recall that ever being what Hermione was doing. She was giving an opinion. If someone didn't like that opinion, like Ginny, she should have just ignored her instead of being rude about it. It was uncalled for.

No one has ever praised Harry for getting into trouble without there someone being there who also condemns it. Ron is forever complimenting Harry on his misbehavior while Hermione is often shown disaproving. So yes, Harry is getting ragged on for his behavior. Does Ginny ever get chewed out for her wrong doings? Nope. Everyone just applauds and cheers her on *coughlikejamespottercough* And I agree, Ginny was capable of being so much more of this, a much better developed, more likable character. But like I've already said, everyone's characters were screwed in book 6. In all honesty, there is fanfiction that is far truer to the characters that JKR's own writing in book 6, and it is a huge disapointment for me.

As for this whole Ginny being the perfect woman for HArry. . . is it because they both share a love of quidditch? Because Ginny LOOKS like a mini version of Lilly Potter? Can they have a intellectual conversation together?

I would have preferred the old Ginny with Harry, not this new arrogant version of her, which is why I suppose I'm sticking with my H/Hr shipping.