I'm really sorry if this has already been posted, but I found a quote from the game in which Cait Sith is asked to tell Aerith her compatibility with Cloud.

Aerith: "Why don't you read our fortunes?" / Cait Sith: "Say, that's right... I haven't done it in a while, huh? I'm so excited. Right or wrong, I'm still the same 'ol me. Now, what should I predict?" / Aerith: "Hmm, let's see how compatible Cloud and I are!" ... / Cait Sith: "This isn't good. I can't say it. Poor Tifa." ... / Aerith: "No! Tell me! I promise I won't get mad!" / Cait Sith: "Is that so? Then I'll tell you. Looks good. You are perfect for each other!"

I thought that was pretty cute since Cait Sith is always right in his predictions. XD (especially when he predicted that Cloud would lose something very dear ;_;)

I think this might of been mentioned somewhere, but yeah people say Caith Sith isn't reliable in his predictions but his predictions were actually right on the money.

Um...wow. What else can I say? If Cait Sith says they're suppose to be together...I guess...they're to be together. *grumbles*

Aww!! tht so cute! i dint no he told fortunes :P yay they were meant to b together, but i still fink tifa will get him :cry: cz she is ded but neway... :cleris:

First off, Cloud would only get with Tifa if he loves her. Whether someone's dead or not has nothing to do with who he can and can't love. Therefore, the fact that Aerith is dead isn't directly relevant to whether Cloud will get with Tifa or not. Just thought I should also add that there's no reason why anyone should automatically assume he can't/won't remain single.

I'm pretty sure we already have many threads covering this topic. I'm thinking of merging this with the other threads...as soon as I find them... ^^;

I guess your right! if cloud loved tifa he probably wud of went with her sooner..
oh well! :cleris: foreverr!!

"Aerith: Cait Sith.... (to Cloud) Cloud, say something to him!
Cloud: I don't know what to say.
Cait: I understand Cloud, because I feel the same way.

Aerith: ...Cait! Do your last fortune telling.

Cait: Yeah, I haven't done that in a long time. What do YOU want to
know about?

Aerith: Hmmm...my future with Cloud!!

Tifa: (gets very angry, jealous)

Cait: It will cost you! One date! Here we go (looks at the horoscope
thing and turns away)... oh no....I can't say what's written on this...I
feel so bad for Miss Tifa...

Aerith: No tell me! I promise I won't be surprised.

Cait: OK... Then here it is - You two were just MADE for each other!!
Aerith, your star and Cloud's star says - a bright future is awaiting
you both! Cloud, I'll arrange your marriage, be the host, or a spy,
whatever you ask! Just call me then, OK? ....thank you for trusting me,
even though I was a spy. Good bye now..."

-----------------

I wonder what Cloti's say about this.
I think its Cute ^^




There's already a post for this here, so I'm going to merge these two threads. Pretty sure there's more too.. I think Cait Sith's predictions have been discussed to death! I just can't find the threads. ^^;

~yin-chan

I don't believe in the accuracy of his fortunes, but I think it makes cute scenes. XP

Funny... the creators have already stated that his fortunes are his "innate specialty". So, really, there is no reason to doubt his fortunes anymore.

And... weren't you leaving here for good because I'm so darn mean?

Yes, that's correct.

Could you please delete my account, since I am unable to do so myself?

Sure thing. ^_^

I thought I heard something like that. Is it in the Ultimania or RF?

FF7 10th Anniversary Ultimania
Chap. 2, Character in FF7 World
Cait Sith's Profile, Chompliation Check (p.61)

The name of my divination machine is not Dotty!
The collection of Cat Sith’s fortunetelling.

Cait Sith ambushed in God Saucer and waited for Cloud’s gang. He introduced himself that “I’m a fortuneteller here.” But this is never an absolute lie, fortunetelling is Cait Sith’s innate specialty. His extraordinary ability is shown as "tickets" in FF7, and is also revealed as surmises of destination in BC.

The List of Cat Sith's fortunetelling:
*In FF7:
The location of Sephyroth:
“What you pursue will be yours. But you will lose something dear “
The development from now on:
“Ordinary luck. It will be an active fortune
The affinity * between Cloud and Aerith:
“You are perfect for each other! Aerith's star and Cloud's star! They show a great future!"
*In BC:
The place to find “Support material”.
The direction to every door in the Reactor.

FF7 Ultimania Omega Page 151, the marked tidbit explaining CS's last fortune telling.

The last fortune telling from Cat Sith No. 1.

After solving the puzzle about Cat Sith's replaceable body, he tells one last fortune of Cloud and Aerith's affinity.
The resault of it turns out "Aerith-san's star and Cloud-san's star! They promise a great future!" After that, it will become a sad prediction if we get to know what would happen afterward. But if we can catch the meaning of the "future" from another angle, we can see hope.....perhaps.

Caption:
Cat Sith's lines which seem to expect Cloud and Aerith's wedding now makes it more painful.

@AA: sorry i'm lazy to re-paste the scan of pages...D: :gift:


Rest in peace, BPMM, I've been too kind for lurkers.

Thanks for the quotes! You're already busy so don't worry about scanning the pages. :huggle:

Also irrc SE seems to bring up Cait Sith and his predictions quite often in the official medias and tags them with opening liners like "an important fortune?" or such (sorry Chibica can't remember the exact wordings :blush: ) so if Cait Sith is really nothing but a bunch of bs like some people say then why does SE keep bringing his predictions and especially things like the concept of a Cloud and Aerith wedding up? ;)

If they didn't want people to pay any attention to it then they wouldn't keep bringing it to attention or they'd have removed them from the game imo.

There will always be hope from another angle when it comes to Cloud and Aerith because of the strength of their bond~

It's in the Ultimania Omega, page 41:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v242/vil..._0/caitsith.jpg

The final line:

もっとも、それが当たることはほとんどなく、その腕前は怪しいもの。
However, these [fortunes] are rarely correct, and his skill at telling the future is dubious.

They seemed to have changed their minds about that now with the Anniversary Ultimania saying otherwise.

Just curious, but if there are contradictions between the Ultimanias, does that mean one should be looked on as valid and the other not? Or do we assume then that SE is saying his fortune telling skills are so-so?

Didn't Dismantled also mention something about his abilities to tell fortunes? I don't recall it being anything negative. I could be wrong though, so I'll have to find the quote again.

EDIT:
Nevermind about Dismantled, that was something else. Even if we were to say that Cait Sith's predictions are rarely right, the predictions told to Cloud and Aerith weren't wrong. Cloud did lose something dear to him and even the one about Cloud and Aerith's stars promising a great future isn't entirely wrong, according to the Omega:

I don't remember any of Cait Sith's predictions being wrong... at least in FFVII. They may have not always been what Cloud was asking for or really even relevant for that matter, but they weren't necessarily wrong either.

Granted that Cait's predictions aren't always reliable... after all, he told Cloud that his favorite color was blue after Cloud asked him where Sephiroth was. :lol:

However, doesn't the FFVII Ultimania Omega also say on page 120 that Cait Sith's prediction about, "What you pursue will be yours. but you will lose something dear” can be interpreted to mean the loss of Aerith? If so, that would mean that Cait's predictions are correct at times. ;)

Out of curiosity... what does the Anniversary Ultimania say about his predictions? :unsure:

I think we should have neutrals translating things related to FF7 rather than a Cloti from Strifeheart. They'll twist everything against us.

Your translation isn't even that correct.

My electronic Japanese translator said this:

However, it is to get a little suspicious of the skill.

It's called foreshadowing. Whether Cait Sith is awesome at fortune telling or totally sucky, certain predictions were tossed in there purposely for the sake of the story.

Can we...not start this again please? ):

Anastar:

According to Chibica's translations:

I belive that SE its full of clotis and want to erase all the :cleris: they can, I mean just look at everything they make, even the toys, they always try to put cloud and tifa together :angry:

If nomura gets to do the remake of FF7 then he better pwns em, besides I think that in an interview they said that they will be making another ff7 movie in the distant future, hopefully a gamesequel.

The cat in boots has spoken and they cannot change it!
:cloud: and :aeris: are ment for each other!

AA, please. That was completely uncalled for, not to mention rude. Can we not attack other members based on what forums they frequent, kthx?

I'm apologize. I was involved in an LTD today abeit unintentionally so it left me testy.

Just for the record teh awesme Zelda! came to us from other forums ;)

:glomp: @ Zelda :P

Aha ... yeah! :giggle: That's what I was thinking - it probably just takes him a while to get going - his mind probably picks up a few wth things first and then he'll hit on something bang on the money! :giggle:

Agreed, Yukari. Let's try to keep personal attacks out of this forum, okay? Thanks for your apology, AA.

Wilhelm may frequent Strifeheart now, but he used to help me a great deal with translations during the LT debates at ACF. I've heard other sources translate that same passage from page 41 of the FFVII UO in the same way.

Note that Wilhelm's translation does not say that Cait Sith is always incorrect. It essentially says that Cait's predictions are sometimes unreliable, and I agree that they are. The example I gave of Cait telling Cloud that his favorite color is blue when Cloud asked where Sephiroth illustrates that.

However, the FFVII UO also tells us on other pages that Cait's prediction about "losing something dear" can indeed be interpreted to mean Aerith's death. On another page, the UO also says something insinuating that Cait's prediction at the Temple of Ancients about Cloud and Aerith being perfect for one another is quite valid.

Therefore, I don't think we can count on the one line that Wilhelm translated to assess Cait Sith's skills, since it doesn't give us the whole picture.

Woot! Thanks, HD! :D

Excellent point, Zelda. I think the line from the FFVII Anniversary Ultimania about Cait's "extraordinary ability is shown in 'tickets' in FF7" is essentially agreeing with you. ^_^

iawtc.

And even if Cait Sith is bad at telling fortunes or whatever, if he'd predicted something good about Cloti certain people would be all over it regardless of his skills. Blaaah-ness.

I agree with the fact that Cait Sith's predictions are accurate. I didn't see a single fortune that led me to believe he was lying or didn't know what he was talking about. His predictions just came at an unsuitable time, like what Anastar said about his telling Cloud his lucky color instead of answering the question about Sephiroth.

If SE wanted Cait Sith's fortune about Cloud and Aerith's future to mean so little, why did they have Cloud's mother also hint at Aerith being the perfect woman for Cloud? That's just like a prediction, and I wouldn't see the point in them throwing two liars in the game hinting at Clerith unless it were true.

Whee!! You all have great viewpoints! :fangirl: Darn I'm slow...D:


If you read the whole book, Omega, thoroughly, I guess you won’t have the same doubt anymore. The one-liner you offered is actually from a tidbit in the Character Column: Cat Sith (CS’s profile info, p. 41), the title is “Cat Sith is sometimes correct, sometimes not. (ed: it purposely rephrases a Japanese idiom:sorry, can't type JP here )” The full translation of that tidbit is as follows:

As for his skill of fortune-telling?
Cat Sith called himself a machine of fortuneteller and predicted Sephiroth’s whereabouts when he joinsed the group. Besides that, he occasionally made predictions for a survey of the adventure, and for Cloud and Aerith’s compatibility. However, these are rarely correct and his skill in telling fortune is dubious.
(ed: I used your trans. for the last line, hope you dun mind.)

Cat Sith’s fortune-telling did not answer Cloud where Sephiroth is (not to say he seems babbling nonsense in first two tries), and it’s also wrong when he said Cloud and Aerith’s stars “promise a great future.” Therefore, it IS understandable when the quote says “his skill in telling fortune is dubious.” But if you keep reading, Omega gives us explicit explanations of these “fortunes” in the chapter of Story Analysis (part 2): Story Playback. Let’s start from the first prediction:

(Page120)
The fortune telling with deep meaning.
Cat Ceit’s divination about the direction toward Sephiroth turns out three consequences. Disregard the previous two, the noticeable one is the third result which becomes the chance for him to follow the party—“What you’re looking for would be yours, but you’ll lose something very dear.”
As the storyline moves on to the event of Forgotten City, the “something very dear” can be read as losing Aerith, and it also hint the event of Cloud’s reaching his self breakdown when the story goes to the Northern Crater.
Caption:
Or does he simply use it as the excuse to join the party?

The gamers don’t know whether this “fortune” is right or wrong in the first place, but “As the storyline moves on,” it reveals the fact that Cloud did lost something dear to him. Therefore, you can say CS’s answer to Sephiroth’s whereabouts is not correct, but I believe even you agree that the prediction itself turns out true.
I found another two backup pieces of info from FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania-z:

1. FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania (Chapter1: Character), page 202, the caption of the marked pic:
As for Cat Sith’s fortune-telling, the nonsense unexpectedly indicates a consequence with profound meaning.
2. FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania (Chapter2: Scenario), page 222, the quote from Story Playback (the marked part):
-Foreshadowing-
What reveals from Cat Sith’s fortune-telling
Cat Sith’s prediction of Sephiroth’s whereabouts is “What you pursue will be yours, but you will lose something very dear.” Can the “something very dear” possibly indicate that Cloud will lose Aerith in Forgotten City afterwards? Or maybe that Cloud will lose his self in a maze of storm.

Notice that even S-E describes CS’s prediction in Gold Saucer as “nonsense”, in other words, it IS incorrect when it's about the result of telling one’s fortune. However, the importance of it is to use as a foreshadowing for what’d happen in the future, which means what CS said turns out right in consideration of the storyline.

Now take a look at the one about Cloud and Aerith’s compatibility.
Aerith’s question is “let's see how compatible Cloud and I are”, but Cat Sith not only said they’re perfect to each other, he also predicted a foreseeable future with a wedding. But all gamers know that the part about future is so wrong becuz Aerith died several scenes after. And now you may wonder why the outcome only proves it wrong partially? Why not everything including the compatibility? Well Omega has fully answered it:

FF7 Ultimania Omega Page 151, the tidbit explaining CS's last fortune telling:
The last fortune telling from Cat Sith No. 1.
After solving the puzzle about Cat Sith's replaceable body, he tells one last fortune of Cloud and Aerith's affinity.
The resault of it turns out "Aerith-san's star and Cloud-san's star! They promise a great future!" After that, it will become a sad prediction if we get to know what would happen afterward. But if we can catch the meaning of the "future" from another angle, we can see hope.....perhaps.

Caption:
Cat Sith's lines which seem to expect Cloud and Aerith's wedding now makes it more painful.

If all he said is false, then it shouldn’t become a “sad prediction.” We should feel the sorrow here because CS’s right about their compatibility—they’re meant to be.

In short, I don’t see any problem to state that CS’s skill is “dubious” because he was meant to be designed as such. But that doesn’t change the accuracy of what he said any a bit. IMO it’ll be quite ignorant if we focus on “right or wrong” instead of the purpose behind. What really counts in CS’s fortune-telling lines in the meaningful result, and as you can see, these fortunes did not contradict anything. If S-E’s intention is to make Cat Sith’s skill a failure, the arrangement will be pointless and a waste of scenes. Therefore, not to say S-E had confirmed us in FF7 10th Anni-Ultimania, I still believe in Cat Sith’s predictions.

......I hope I make my points clear. :blush:

I guess that depends on how you want to look at it. If you'd rather take what came earlier, or what came later. I would probably just take whatever came later, personally.

I didn't come here to start trouble. I'd rather bury the hatchet over some silly internet feud. If I'm wrong, people are free to tell me where and how.

How is that much different, exactly? Dubious skill, suspicious of the skill. It's basically the same thing.

By offering that line as an example, I meant mainly to suggest where people might be getting the negative assessment of Cait Sith from. I think the foreshadowing aspect of what he says is more important that how good he is at telling the future, personally.

I agree that some of his predictions do have relevance/foreshadowing for the later developments in the story. Again, I think that's more important than whether he's some super fortune telling master.

Isn't that why it's sad? The dramatic irony that the audience feels, when they look back on it/play through it again knowing what happens later?

Can I offer a slight correction here?

Cait Sith having a replacement body (かわりのボディがある) is the reason (からと言って) that he agreed to do the [temple's/Black Materia] puzzle (パズルの解除を引き受けた).

This isn't 'tickets', but rather another way of saying that some of the things he says are nonsense ("FFVIIではテキトーなことも言うが……")

I wouldn't call it 'frequenting'. I might go if a link pops up or it comes up on my browser's auto-complete function sometimes, but I don't go out of my way to visit it.

In other words, you personally think one becomes invalid?
I take it that you don't really think older info would be closer to the intent of the original game since the original game is...well...old? I'm just curious as to what your opinions are.

Like I was saying though, according to the Omega(the one that called Cait Sith's predictions "rarely right"), his prediction about Aerith and Cloud's future together isn't entirely wrong. Though it mentions that it's a sad prediction, it also said "if we can catch the meaning of the "future" from another angle, we can see hope". What is your opinion on that?

Just ignore AA's comment.
Shouldn't matter what forums people visit, frequent or not.

I don't disagree with older stuff probably being what was originally planned. But since they've chosen to expand on FFVII, some things are going to get changed around to fit in with new ideas or such (like how DC differs on how events with Lucrezia described in the Ultimania, and CC with some elements of Zack and Aerith's meeting). If Square want to change their minds about something, I'll just go along with that.

If I were to take 'future' from a different angle and give a suggestion-- assuming 'different' here as in different from Cait Sith's pronounced expectations which resulted in the prediction being 'sad'-- then maybe it's related to the outcome of the team's battle to save the planet. 'Cloud's star' and 'Aerith's star' = 'the planet ['star']', which thanks to what they both did actually has a future that (disregarding what catastrophe Square cooks up for following Compilation titles) seems to be having a fine future by the end of the original game.

Interesting metaphysical way to look at it. But, if we're going to go into metaphysics, there's another way to look at it.

Suppose, for a moment, that star in this case refers to 'soul.'

In this case, 'Cloud's soul and Aerith's soul' having a bright future is not necessarily a misnomer. Aerith's ability to continue interacting with the living world after her death allows for a bright...if distinctly nonstandard...future, once Cloud gets over the natural human inclination to think death is the end of everything.

Hmmm...but Cait Sith's prediction is about Cloud and Aerith's affinity, their bright future together. As far as I can see, his prediction doesn't have any relevance to the Planet's future. The line "if we can catch the meaning of the "future" from another angle, we can see hope" is referring to his prediction about the two of them and their relationship...right?

Not that I've personally seen any major changes that would really matter to the storyline of FFVII(doesn't really matter to me how Aerith and Zack met), but I see. So if something new comes up that contradicts something from the original game, to you, the original would become invalid...correct? Again, just your opinion, but can the Compilation be considered valid then if, in the end, it renders the original FFVII game invalid?

And rightly so, since his fortunes are not always accurate in the game. That can easily be seen in the first meeting with Cait:

Cloud "You can only read the future?"
Cait Sith "You kidding!? I can find missing things, missing people, anything!"
Cloud "Then can you tell me where a man named Sephiroth is?"
Cait Sith "Sephiroth, right?"
"Okay, here goes!!"
(He does a little fortune-telling dance...)
Cloud "...Ordinary luck. It will be an active fortune."
"Give into the good will of others, and something big'll happen
by summer. ...wait... what's this?"
Cait Sith "Huh? Let me try again."
(He does the dance again)
Cloud "Be careful of forgetfulness. Your lucky color is... blue?"
"...Forget it."
Cait Sith "Wait, wait give me another chance!"
"Wait! Let me try it again!"
(He does a super-fast dance!)
Cloud "...What the!?"
Aerith "What?"
Cloud "What you pursue will be yours. But you will lose something dear."
Cait Sith "I don't know if it's good OR bad..."
"This's the first time I ever got something like THIS."

So, yes... Cait can be inaccurate.

However, what I meant was that FFVII UO also specifically tells us that Cait saying, "you will lose something dear" can indeed refer to the death of Aerith. Therefore, FFVII UO also tells us that at least one of Cait's predictions is correct.

So, my point is that one can't generalize and claim that Cait is always right or always wrong. It's true that some of his predictions are inaccurate, but UO recognizes that one prediction is correct. Therefore, if at least one prediction is correct, then Cait can be correct, too.

Good! Then we agree on that. ^_^ However, doesn't the accuracy of his predictions also affect the accuracy of the foreshadowing? I've heard some people in debates dismissing the foreshadowing aspect of Cait's prediction on the basis that Cait's prediction are "inaccurate, as stated in FFVII UO". That's why I'm trying to establish that UO also tells us that his predictions are, at times, accurate.

I agree with Angelalex that your interpretation is interesting. However, Cait says that in direct answer to a question from Aerith asking about her compatibility with Cloud, not the success of their mission. Given the context, his answer more logically applies to Cloud and Aerith's relationship. Besides, FFVII specifically says that Cait's prediciton is about Cloud and Aerith's affinity:

In addition, the FFVII UO specifically says that the lines which seem to predict Cloud and Aerith's wedding is what makes it painful. Doesn't making it painful also make it sad? Besides, as you said, the end of the original game actually gives hope to the future of the Planet, which is hardly sad... except for the loss of Aerith.

The position of many Clerith people has always been that Cloud and Aerith could be reunited either spiritually, or in the Lifestream after Cloud's death. Cloud seemed to speak of that himself in the end of FFVII when he said, "The Promised Land... I think I can meet her... there". It seems logical to me that that would be the "alternate future" that the prediction is referring to.

And frankly, AC showed us that such a spiritual unity is indeed possible between Cloud and Aerith. Such a spiritual unity was also spoken about in Distance by Nomura. Therefore, if any alternate future is being referred to, that seems to be the one intended by SE.

His other meaningful prediction ("you will find what you seek, but lose something dear" one) wasn't exactly the answer to the question Cloud asked him either, which was where Sephiroth was.

None of the things DC and CC retconned so far aren't major elements, and none of them directly featured in the game. But I don't really think how good Cait Sith is at fortune telling is much more relevant.

That's how retcons work, isn't it? FFVII isn't static anymore, so things might change. If that happens to change something from the original game, it's Square's story and I'll just go with it. As far I as know, nothing like that has happened yet though.

If we start taking more than just 'future' different and use other meanings for the other words beyond the standard, where will it end?

I don't really see how one would question what it is Cait Sith was referring to. SE already spelled it out, that he told a fortune of their affinity.

His prediction was about a wedding...so...their relationship.

The future of Cloud and Aerith's relationship...not of the Planet. Am I wrong?

Me neither.
I was just wondering what your opinions would be if it did come down to that.
You never know. ^^

Where will it begin? Where will it end, indeed? When FF7 was first made, nobody thought about Advent Children.

But by having Star refer to 'Soul', the prediction is then changed from the standard, physical meaning (a wedding) to, perhaps, a union of souls that remains possible even after death.

Wilhelm

I didn't see you answer my last post, so I'm just wondering if you noticed it? :unsure: Perhaps you just have too many people to answer? ^_^

Yet, doesn't FFVII UO says that that prediction was correct, in that it can be interpreted to mean the loss of Aerith?