I am a constant victim of religous persecution for being an athiest. Athiesm is the idea that there is no form of god. It's a purely scientific system. Because of this I am treated very badly by christians. My friend's mother won't let us see each other any more because of it and my feeling that homosexuallity is okay. It is odd because I have met people of several faiths. I know jews, muslims, hindus, buddhists, and even a pagan but only christians are hard on me. I have nothing against christianity either. My grandmother, who I treasured deeply, was a devoted episcopalian who had many religious symbols in her home. It didn't bother me at all. I just don't know how to handle when people treat me badly over it. I let it roll off my back. What should I do?

Ah, religious persecution. I feel your pain, Neko. No, I'm not an atheist. I believe in God, but I don't follow an organized religion. But because I meditate and am about as much of a left-wing liberal without being a socialist as is possible, I've come across a decent amount of people who tell me that I'm a heretic or that I'm going to hell. Not many since most people in downstate NY aren't that religious. Really, there's nothing you can say to people this ignorant. Sure, you could insult them back by attacking their devoted fundamentalism. But wouldn't that put you on the same level? The best advice I can give is just don't let it phase you. They're not worth listening to. ^_^

Its sounds like your doing the right thing, by "letting it roll of your back". These people don't have any right to critizise your beliefs. I, too, belive in god, but don't follow a certain religion. Though I haven't come across bad treatment often, it has happened. For example, because of my lax way of beliving, I just love Harry Potter, and have been insulted many times because of it.

-These people are just perfectionists who think their way of life is the only, good way of life. Don't let them phase you, just walk on by, and ignore them. If it helps, if your hurt by their comments, write down all your emotions in the form of a hateful letter or the such, then rip it up and throw it away, it helps, trust me.

Cripes....I know what THIS is like.

I, for one, am Mormon.
Yes! We worship Joseph Smith and are the devils! Whee! We practice polygamy! We have stupid retarded names! We hate all other religions! We despise homosexual people and kill them! We are pure evil!

[/sarcasm]

Meh...There's worse that's said about Mormons, though...I cannot believe someone would persecute someone because of what they believe. It's not right.....I also cannot believe what people SAY about Mormons....It's all a load of lies...

Enough of MY problems...onto YOUR problem! :sweat:

I think letting it roll off your back is okay, but I stand up for what I believe. I can't just sit there and let people lie about me. <_<

Well, thats very true. Christians to tend to be pretty harsh on other religions, but not all christians are like that. I'm guessing the reason why your friends mom won't let you play with your friend, is because her mom doesn't want her child involved. If she strongly opposes your beliefs, then i dowbt she wants her child exposed to your beliefs. I kinda feel ya though.... my best friend's mom doesn't like me because she dosen't approve of the way we think with Christianity. But, thats not stopping me from being her friend. I could care less what she thinks. I'm not gonna leave my best friend in the whole world i've known since birth just because her mom doesn't like me. I don't get to see my friend very much... maybe 1 or 2 times every 2 months.

But, their are Christians who discriminate and some who don't. It depends on how they feel about other religions. I know my mom wouldn't let me hang with friends of different religions. :no:

Well, as I'm thinking of what to type for this reply, I'm immediately afraid of being persecuted by you guys. I hope you don't. I should know you all better. Right?

I, for one, am a Jehovah's Witness, so I definately know what it feels like to be persecuted.

We are totally sexist basterds who shove our religious beliefs down your throat and we are most definately racist.

Not.

So, we go door to door asking if you would LIKE to take a magazine explaining some of the things we believe. Do we say "Take it now."? No, we say "Would you LIKE to take this?" If you say no, we walk off. -shrug- Easy 'nuff. But looks like people like to lie and say we force you to take the things.

There are more races at my 'church' then I have ever seen in my life.

And women do a lot of the door-to-door work, while the men do more 'behind the scenes' work, like money issues, and giving talks, or 'sermons' as you may like to think of them as. My 'church' is called a Kingdom Hall, the 'sermons' are called talks. -shrug-

Yet we still be persecuted. WHY?

No idea. Persecution is everywhere. :no:

Hmmm...Speaking of Jehovah's Witness, dont'cha believe Jesus is God?

Just wondering. ^_^

It's a purely scientific system.

You might want to rethink that.

Well... Not all Christians are gay-picketing, abortion clinic blower-uppers. I am Christian, not strict orthodox but I am spiritual. I really dislike this kind of persecution. It leads to terrible events like the Holocaust.
I think we should all just live and let live.

Lately, I've been browsing this site and I like it a lot. It helps me understand other religions.

I'm not sure what you mean. It's simple: I don't believe in super-natural forces. I believe deeply in science (such as evolution). etc. I don't see why I should rethink that.

I'm not sure what you mean. It's simple: I don't believe in super-natural forces. I believe deeply in science (such as evolution). etc. I don't see why I should rethink that.

You said that atheism is a pure scientific system. It isn't. You may have atheistic beliefs that tend to that direction - indeed, as you've mentioned above - but that does not mean that atheism is a system based on pure science at all. Atheism is simply a belief that no deity/supreme being etc exists. It is possible to believe in some spiritual things (even a lifeforce as Bernard Shaw suggested) and still be distinctly atheist. Further, the atheism that has been most successful in conflict with religion has been based on reasoning as much as science.

My point is only that atheism is not a pure scientific system. I didn't mean you, personally should rethink your beliefs, only that you shouldn't refer to atheism as a pure scientific system. Particularly on a board such as this where people are likely to take what you say as truth.

The form of athiesm I believe in believes in NO form of spirituality though. Not even the whole life force shpeel!

Nonono. While most Christians believe in the trinity, yah know, the whole "God, Jesus, and the holy spirit are one person" thing, we don't. God's true name is Jehovah (says so in the Bible), Jesus is his son, and the Holy Spirit is what they use to give their followers strength. Thats what we believe.

We also believe that there will be a paradise on earth, not everyone dieing and going to heaven.

I learned actually while studying religion that "Jehova" is a mistranslation of the name Ya-Wei or something similar by German scholars when Johannes Gutenberg invinted the printing press.

The form of athiesm I believe in believes in NO form of spirituality though. Not even the whole life force shpeel!

Yes, I realise that. That is my point. Your atheistic beliefs fall that way. Atheism as a set of beliefs itself does not necessarily fall that way. You shouldn't label atheism as a 'purely scientific system' when you are only speaking only of your own interpretation of atheism.

Further I assume your belief in science comes from the idea that it is more logical or the most reasonable explanation? If that is the case then your reasoning for atheism (and I speak of your own atheistic beliefs) is flawed.

Listen, I don't wanna fight with you. This is what I prefer to avoid. :(

Christianity has nothing against you, Neko. :) It's what you believe. Atheism, homosexuality, and pre-marital sex, etc., are all against what God says in the Bible. So that's why maybe Christians are 'hard' on you. ^_^ They're defending their Faith. And that's what I'm doing too.

I get religious persecution too. Before the FF7 Citadel Forums were re-vamped, I was bashed alot in there for my beliefs. There was a topic about Evolution, and I entered a sort of debate about it. I believe I got called a few swear words. :lol: But anyways, my point is that there is never gonna be peace about religion, everyone is going to suffer some sort of persecution.

The day there is a one-world-religion established is the day the Anti-Christ has full dominion.

This part still confuses me sometimes. Whenever I imagine Jesus or God that I'm praying to, I imagine them as two separate beings.

Actually, a lot of us believe that there will also be a new Earth.

Question, where did the concept of limbo come from? I remember reading about it once, a place for unbaptized babies, virtuous non-believers, suicides, a place of sorrow without torment... I just don't know *where* I read it, if it's a concept in some religion, or if I read about it in some mythology textbook.

(sorry for double plz dont delete ill make it up to you) listen mate shut up dont shurf you religion up ppls mouth.we all beleave in diffrent things.so unless your planning to destory the whole world the go moan to somone who cares

I've heard that too. Yes, in Hebrew we imagine it was pronounced "Yah-wei" (Prounconced Yah-weigh) but since they didn't have vowels, we can only guess.

Listen, I don't wanna fight with you. This is what I prefer to avoid.

I didn't intend to give the impression I was angry with you or looking for a fight. I'm an atheistic agnostic personally and was only interested in a discussion on the subject. While I may seem rather abrupt and harsh (again I apologise) I don't intend to be.

But I have to ask. If you don't want to get into arguments about these topics then why are you posting on the board designed for them?



(sorry for double plz dont delete ill make it up to you) listen mate shut up dont shurf you religion up ppls mouth.we all beleave in diffrent things.so unless your planning to destory the whole world the go moan to somone who cares

XD! XFD! HAHAH! :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot: :woot:

I hope HB, Seeker and Shroud see this. hahah. Wow, that was hilarious.

Ok. Let me walk you through what has happened in this topic. You need a little work on your reading comprehension.

I'm not religous. I've never said I was religous in this topic and in fact before my above comment in this very same post I've said nothing about my own orientation in this topic. How then can I be shoving my 'religion' down someone's throat?

And where did this 'planning to destroy the world' thing come from? This makes no sense. Are you implying I want to do a Hitler and spread my beliefs around the world? Even when I didn't state my beliefs? Doesn't quite make sense, your post, does it?

Even further, I know people believe different things. That was the point of my original post. I was the one advocating that, trying to explain that. Neko said that atheism was a purely scientific system. This clearly corresponds to her specific beliefs. There's nothing wrong with that and I have no problem with her or her beliefs. However, she labelled atheism as being nothing but that. She wasn't allowing for the broad range of beliefs and interpretations within atheism (NB: I'm sure this wasn't done intentionally, but I pointed out to assist the topic and to ensure she knows this) and so I was the one ensuring that all people could believe what ever it was they wished. And yet you label me as the fascist?

Lastly, about the 'who cares' comment. Check the other major topics at the Lifestream. I'm prominent in a few of them. My point? People do care about my posts, opinions and thoughts. Secondly, it doesn't matter if you don't care, that's not reason enough, or good enough reason, for me not to comment. Lastly, this is the Lifestream. The place for dicussion on Life, the Universe and Everything (where everything is a fairly restricted term) and argument and heated discussion should be expected provided both sides are happy with it (and Neko no longer is so I've backed off) and both sides are at least attempting to present reasonable and logical arguments.

You'll notice that your post doesn't fulfill any of the above criteria. It wasn't informative, it wasn't reasonable and it wasn't at all logical.

The question is why anyone should care about such an idiotic post.

personally, not to offend anyone, but i think religion is crap. Its supposed to bring people together? bull crap it divides people just like neko and his friend. I really hate religion.

dont get me wrong, have your belief, believe what you want, i do too, but dont get pissed at someone cause they have a different thought, or they dont believe in something. It really ticks me when i run into people that freak cause someone does follow the lame christian belief.

basicly too me...what i do, most of the time if i just wanna be annoying and walk away I ask them who created god and walk away, or i dont know, most of the time infat 99% of the time, if religion i sbrought up, i leave the group.

...Oh my.

Who SAYS ALL religions divide people? My religion is one big family. It's just amazing...Everybody knows everybody...I guess that some people just wouldn't understand how much religion does for everybody. So, are you stating that you do not believe in God? If so, you must think that a very, very large amount of the population is delusional. And what about all the things that happened in the Bible? And for me, the Book of Mormon? Doctrine and Covenants? Pearl of Great Price? Who says that I get "pissed" when someone doesn't believe what I do? Everybody believes what they believe. So don't go calling anything a "lame Christian belief". You most likely wouldn't understand, as you say, you think "religion is crap"...If I didn't have the Gospel in my life...It would be one heck of a screwed life. I would have done some horrible things...And not have been able to repent for the horrible things I've done....So all I can say is that I hope someday the Spirit will touch your heart, too. ^_^ And then maybe you'll understand WHY people have "religion". WHY miracles happen...And why we are here on Earth. (The Plan of Salvation. ^_^)

Those are some strong words you have there, my friend. For your independent-mindedness, I give you a cookie. Were you raised a certain religion that you just don't believe in? Or do your parents not belong to a religion? Just out of curiousity. ^_^

On with my rebuttal! While I understand where you're coming from, I think your target is a little bit off. I don't have a religion (although I believe in God) so this isn't me trying to defend myself. I don't think religion is to blame for these things. I think it's religious fundamentalism and fundamentalists themselves... People who are beyond religious to the point where they are willing to harm others.

I'm very sorry if this offends you, but where is the actual proof that the things mentioned in the Bible actually happened? I've read the Bible (more than once, actually). But I don't believe in the things they say happened in it. To me, it makes a lot of sense that people would see it as true. That doesn't make them delusional. (Ehh, sorry in advance if I offend you) To me, it means that they were raised believing it was true.

Well, I don't think someone could have made up all that stuff in there. No one ever in history could make that up.

No offense taken, msz aeris strife. ^_^

Well, I don't think someone could have made up all that stuff in there. No one ever in history could make that up.

Why? Some reasoning would be nice here.

i dont know...the 5 main religions of the world were made off of one another, and buddism(sp?) started from buda talking to some wise old guy about religion, and he then created his own religion based off of what the man said...so i think religion may have been made up long ago to give people hope in the time of dispare, and then it just stayed around for as long as of today.

Not to be rude, but are you sure that's how Buddhism was created? Because I'm pretty sure that Siddhartha Gautama (aka Buddha) came up with Buddhism after being sheltered in his father's castle his entire life and one day wandering through the city and seeing a sick man, a corpse, a crippled man, and a holy man. After that, he decided to give up his life as a prince and eventually (after many, many years of ascetic living) came up with the doctrines of Buddhism. And I'm not even really sure of Buddhism can be called a religion rather than a philosophy as there is no God in it. Just a thought though.

Yay, I'm glad you weren't offended! ^_^ As far as the first statement goes, do you mean to say that no one had the opportunity to write the Bible, filling it with fictious tales that people would just accept as the word of God? Or that no one had the imagination to do so? Because if it's the latter, imagination can come up with some pretty wild stuff. The Silmarillion is like the Bible of the LOTR world. If you meant the first thing, I can understand what you're saying. But I think I'll need you to elaborate before I go off on that tangent.

agreed...i did forget about those three thigns that youmentioned...but yes aside from that, im still not sure, i think that religion may have been made up to help everyone due to the dark times at hand. Giving them hope...which actually worked.

now im not saying theres not god or anything, because i believe in an untimate god and many gods that help tht one god, but the 5 relgions of the world...i dont believe them much at all.

Agh! I shouldn't have come here, I'm so bad at explaining. Shoot me now! xD

Well...Umm...Let's see....I don't think that someone could have made up the things in there because I have a testimony of it. I suppose that's more of a personal thing, but still, if many people have prayed about something, and have gotten an answer and KNOW it's true, it's just unexplainable, I guess. ^_^

Hehe, I usually never take offense to things, unless it's just blatantly RUDE. *cough*

I don't think that someone could have made up the things in there because I have a testimony of it. I suppose that's more of a personal thing, but still, if many people have prayed about something, and have gotten an answer and KNOW it's true, it's just unexplainable, I guess.

But couldn't another person have a similar testimony that the Bible is in fact completely fictitious? If you both equally believed you were right isn't this point irrelevant?

While it's true many people have prayed and received an answer and wholeheartedly, without doubt, believe that it is true, but many belong to different religions. A muslim believes absolutely, a Christian believes absolutely and so on and so forth. When both believe equally how can we say who is right? Not to mention the variety of atheists, positivists and agnostics who all believe quite possibly as strongly that no one exists, that it's impossible to know either way or that it's impossible to even speak of such a subject and come near its truth.

My point is that everyone KNOWS different things, but what do we take as truth and what as not? Can we really know anything?

No, I suppose we can't really know anything with physical evidence. ^_^ Because there is none. :sweat:

Yeah, another name for God, is Ya-Wei. :) I think so anyways.... (go to church almost every flippin Sunday, and i can't even remember.. :no:)

^^ Even though I am an athiest I love reading about religion. I've read the bible, several sutras, koran, tora, etc. I love learning about it. (I learned the Ya-Wei thing from my dad, he's really smart. XD )

Minus the atheism, I'm the same way. I've read the Bible and the Koran. Never the Torah, but I've read several different books on eastern religions as well such as different sects of Hinduism. I've read the Mahabharata if anybody knows what that is.^_^