I've often wondered whether there was a message behind the choices that Cloud had to make within the Love Triangle of FFVII. Different views of love are found within it.

The Cloti's believe that Cloud is in love with Tifa, but what is their relationship actually based on? The Cloti's often bring up Tifa's appearance - primarily her big boobs and sex appeal - as the reason Cloud should be with Tifa. Yet, beauty is only skin deep. Cloti's like to bring up the Highwind scene, claiming that Cloud had sex with Tifa that night. But sex isn't a way to determine whether someone loves you.

The Cloti's claim that Cloud and Tifa were close as children, when - in reality - Cloud and Tifa hardly knew one another as children, which means that the foundation of their relationship was false. The Cloti's talk about how Tifa dreamed of Cloud for five years, when Tifa was daydreaming about someone she didn't really know. That's like a teenager having a crush on some Hollywood pop idol she's never actually met. Cloti's claim that Cloud having a crush on Tifa seven years before the events of FFVII is proof that Cloud is still in love with Tifa. Yet, it was only a childhood crush on someone that Cloud didn't know well. The Cloti's point to the Promise as an indication of Cloud's "love" for Tifa when she actually forced him into making it.

In comparison, what was Cloud and Aerith's relationship based on? Their relationship was based on mutual attraction for one another. That was shown in a passage from FFVII Dismantled that Wilhelm translated for us where Cloud said, "Was [Aerith] happy to have sold a flower? If that smile costs 1 gil, then it's pretty cheap." Aerith asks Marlene all kinds of questions about Cloud, so that even Marlene could tell that Aerith was interested in Cloud. Cloud accepts Aerith's offer of the Date and flirts with her in the Shinra jail about it.

Their relationship was built on trust and devotion. Aerith said in the Shinra jail that she knew Cloud would come for her. Aerith says in the flower field scene that it was enough that Cloud came for her. Cloud was devoted to helping Aerith, even after her death. He vowed to Aerith in the Forgotten City that he would take care of Sephiroth and finish what Aerith had started. He says on board the Highwind as they approach the Northern Crater that he is doing it to free Aerith from Sephiroth's control. Aerith saw the real Cloud underneath. She knew he wasn't Zack, and FFVII Dismantled clarifies that she was interested in Cloud for himself rather than Zack.

Cloud is faced with a choice between a relationship built on trust, devotion, understanding, and mutual attraction vs. a relationship built on sex, looks, miscommunication, lies, and problems. Which relationship is based on true love and which relationship is based on false pretenses? Was the love triangle intended to have us distinguish between a true foundation of love vs. a false foundation of love?

Well...

First of all, after all you said, are you expecting someone to disagree? Impossible. Your arguments are too good!! :lol:

Now...a relationship based on sex and only about someone's apperance is nothing. Someday you'll get tired and move on or when you get old all the beautifulness will fade away and you're nothing but an old rag... <_<
A relationship based not only on the surface, if you're good looking or not, but as well as what's within, tastes and opinions, will matter as time goes by, when the body is no longer nice to look at, but your soul is. You might love someone cause you share the same ideals, opinions, likes...as you can be in love with someone who is completly different from you, Yin and Yan.
I think that's how I see Aeris and Cloud, as an Yin Yan. They're so different that they complete each other, and that is love!!

Oh, I know!! Think about the negative and the positive. They attract each other, right? That's Cloud and Aeris. Now think about two negatives or positives. They repel each other, right? That's Cloud and Tifa.

Hum...I think I made my point. :ph43r:

i would have to go with true love and no matter what those stupid head CloTI fans think and i know for shure AERIS is clouds true love and dont care wat those losers have to say about sex appeal come on there are more RESPECTED women out there who dont need to show clevage to get some
*from a superficial low mind of a guy.......*
and that high wind scene how the CloTI fans think they had sex *wat total losers........i wonder if theres more to mind than the word SEX in all there arguments*
wat i think that happen during the high wind scene well cloud probaly shoved
*big boobed skank* i mean tifa off and confessed hes love to me.......ohh shakas, i mean aeris of course *hits herself over her head *
but it DIDN'T ohh i wish it did :P
*now back to ma daydreaming..........(being AERIS) while brother at the background sayin "big boobed tifa turns a guy on".............now i unique draggs her brother out of the study room and says "go big boob your A cup girlfriend" and slams the door in his face now back to ma day dreaming* ;)




*ps dont you love ma siggie seii made for me i no i do!!* :D

Tru love thats all 2 it and Aeris is it no matter wat a CloTi fans has to say!! :D

Good Article Anastar, well thought out as always.
It's kind of dissapointing that a lot of CloTi's seem to have less respect for Tifa than I do, if all they are focused on is her breasts.

Seriously, we've proven all of their facts to be wrong, and they won't even listen... delusional little twits... whoops!! That's what the venting thread is for! :lol:

I personally identify with Cloud more than any of the other characters, and I want to see him be happy, and he wouldn't be truly happy with Tifa. The Clotis want Tifa to be happy, and I've heard over 10 of them speak of Cloud as Tifa's property, or as something that belongs to Tifa. I understand wanting Tifa to be happy, but even if Cloud and Tifa started dating, Tifa would never be able to have Cloud all to herself, because Aeris will always have Cloud's heart, and death cannot take that away from them. Even if he somehow moved on after Aeris, he couldn't be complete again. Once you've met someone so full of life as she, a normal person like Tifa who needs so much emotional support and has so many flaws just can't compare. If Cloud went with Tifa, then yes, Tifa would be happy. With Cleris, Cloud can be happy too.

Alright!!! ^_^'
Those who will disagree with Anastar would be the people lacking brain cells. B)

True love does not involve something one-sided (like Tifa's "love"---I wouldn't call this love, actually).... One-sided love is as good as false love. False love is just lust... paired up with lies, deception and usage. True Love is something more. It's complimentary; they compliment each other (just like Cloud and Aerith, I believe, even when it was not really emphasized in the game but were just hinted)...
Even Marlene knew that Cloud likes Aerith, for cryin' out loud!!! Remember the time in Aerith's house where Marlene was taken for safety? She asks something to Cloud like if he likes Aerith or not. He just reacted vaguely, but it meant "yes". Marlene responded with "Don't worry, I won't tell Tifa!" ^_^'

True love is a force to be reckoned with, That is why cloud wont rest until he finds what he is looking for! no matter who or what stands in his way!

Him and Tifa never had something going on to begin with.

Aeris and Cloud forever!

i dont know what to say it sounds like you guys have done it all but i wuld like to hear more!!!!!!!!!

So what does this tell us about the Love Triangle of FFVII? Is the Love Triangle intended to have the gamer choose which girl Cloud loves? Or is it intended to have Cloud discover who is truly in his heart by being faced with different choices of love?

Cloud chooses Aerith at the end of the game regardless of what other choices the player has made during the game. There are different interpretations of the ending, yet regardless of the interpretation, Cloud still says, "I think I can meet her... there" after the hand reach scene. Despite other interpretations, I think there's only one meaning to it: he chose Aerith. He realizes at the end of the game that Aerith is the one in his heart, no matter what else has happened to him during the game.

No matter which choices you make during the game, Cloud still chooses Aerith at the end of it. So was the Love Triangle really letting Cloud choose with girl to love during the game? Or was the Love Triangle really giving Cloud different issues of the heart to deal with that are resolved in only one way - by having Cloud realize that his heart is truly with Aerith?

I think the Love Triangle was included so the player could interperet it different ways, that's what Nomura said. But just cos it's supposed to be interpereted as the player sees fit, doesn't mean there wasn't an original main choice that is still viewed as the ideal. Notice how no other FF has had such a strong love triangle? I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really don't think Nomura and the FF staff meant for it to be such a scandal, although they're probably pleased to see how much attention it's giving them, even now. :P

I don't really care one way or another, Cloud and Aeris = love, to me, and that's the only way I'll ever see it. :wub:

If you have never, ever, ever played FFVII before, when you first see Cloud and Tifa, you think they would look cute together. Cloud and Aeris, you think, "Oh, they look so cute too!" I won't move to Yuffie, you can even choose not to get her. If you look at facts, however, than you know it's Cloud and Aeris. :)

The Love Triangle is actually decided upon by the game mechanics. An article I read stated this. I'll try to summon this up into something of a summary, but it'll be hard.


Aeris is the choice for Cloud because she is the point of almost all of the FFVII happenings. Example, Sephiroth was connected to her because he killed her. Zack was connected to her because he previously dated her. Cloud is connected to her because he loves her. How can we prove this?

Sephiroth brought on Meteor, having Cloud and Co. save the world. Zack was a part in Cloud's memory loss, which is an important part of the FFVII story line. If Cloud does not love her, and chooses Tifa, then he breaks the triangle - triangle being the symbol of life (Trinity). If this is so, the interpretation of the player is wrong.

There is also another part of an article, where it deals with the play in Golden Saucer.


In the Golden Saucer play, the Princess (Aeris), gets captured by an Evil Dragon King ---dunno his name---. Cloud, the Knight, rescues her. You can make this story very silly or romantic, but there is a hidden meaning.

The Evil Dragon King's name is similar to Jenova's - it has the same number of syllables. Let's take this into analysis.

Aeris gets captured by the EDK (Evil Dragon King) which can resemble her death. Cloud rescues her, which can be the sign of resurrection. There is also a quote, where the EDK goes, "ACK! The power of love!!!" or something. This play has one point here in the game --- Aeris dies.

This could mean a sign for Aeris' resurrection, and it also shows Cloud and Aeris' love.



Hmmm... that took some time!


For a quick translation,

TRUE LOVE = CLOUD AND AERIS

FALSE LOVE = CLOUD AND TIFA

When did Nomura ever say that? :blink:

@Hopeful Angel - Do you know which article those quotes are from, and who wrote them? The part about the play is interesting, but the same play with the same lines can also be done with Tifa in the Date scene.

No, I don't remember. I just remember the parts I stated above. Interesting parts, no? I didn't know you could also do the play with Tifa.

Then again... I never played the Golden Saucer Date with Tifa...

I think Tifa's love for Cloud was an infatuation, meaning she loved Cloud for his looks.

@Anastar
I think Karma Hunter was right about what she said in comparing Cloud's love for Aeris and Tifa. I think she said that if Cloud had chosen to love Tifa, it would've been like living in a fairy tale. However Karma hinted that Cloud's mother told Cloud he should find an older girlfriend who would take of him and Aeris fit the description.

Got to go right now I'll be back later today!

I think Tifa loved "First-Class SOLDIER Cloud", a mere image, not the real Cloud. She spent years imagining Cloud becoming a famous hero, like Sephiroth. She obviously made him into something in her mind that he just wasn't. So, I don't think Tifa really fell for Cloud, the real Cloud, until much later (after Cloud had already met Aerith).

I've read it billions of times in various articles from both sides, and in several interviews where the meaning is more or less the same. I remember in discussion about AC, he said that because the game was left to open interpretation, there were some things he wanted to do, but couldn't because it would have conflicted with what the fans wanted.
It could be taken as other aspects of the game were open to interpretation, such as the ending. However, that is violated when you take into account the viewpoints of the fans who thought the human race died out and those who thought Cloud married Tifa were changed with the general plot of AC. Obviously they're all still alive, and obviously, Cloud didn't marry Tifa and repopulate the earth with her *rolls eyes until she gets a headache*. I'm positive he was referring to the Love Triangle, because it makes the most sense.
I've also read it in a magazine at somepoint where he was quoted in a interview as saying that he wanted to give the fans leyway which the issue of the female love interest, something along those lines.

I don't really think Tifa could have "loved" him for anything other than his looks when she was growing up, because she never knew the real Cloud. I think it's realistic to say she was beginning to love him during the game, after she had been able to communicate somewhat. And she finally understood a little bit about him, especially when she saw the negative effects her bitchy childhood actions had on poor little Cloud... :(

The only thing I've seen from AC along those lines was when Nomura said that they decided to stop before contradicting the views of many fans. There was also a statement about there being as many views of FFVII as there are gamers.

Nomura also said that the ending of Kingdom Hearts was left open to interpretation because "Cloud is a popular character, and I don't really want to decide myself, yes he is like this. Because players make strong conclusions by themselves, I want to leave room for everyone's line of thought." However, in the same breath, he also said that the ending of KH was made so that it could be interpreted that Cloud was searching for Aerith.

If Nomura ever said that the Love Triangle was open to interpretation, I doubt we'd be having all these arguments with the Cloti's. If Nomura ever said that, then the Love Triangle has already been solved. If you can give me links to any such statements by Nomura, I'd love to see them.

I'd be very happy to see Nomura say that it's up to interpretation because it would prove that Cloti is not canon. :rolleyes: I can live with the story being up to interpretation - I can't live with the story being Cloti. That would absolutely ruin for me the most beautiful love story I've ever known.

However, I do agree that they've contradicted the views of fans already. They've contradicted the views of Cloti fans in the ways you mentioned, but they've also contradicted the views of Cleris fans. For one thing, there's been no indication so far that Cloud's been searching for Aerith even though Square has portrayed Cloud as searching for Aerith in other games. Perhaps they will in the movie - I hope so, or that's going to be a huge contradiction of my own view of the game.

Yes, that was my thoughts exactly!
Tifa dreamt of having a hero rescuing her when she is in danger...
Tifa dreamt of a first-class soldier in Cloud...and that is not the real Cloud...
I remember this line that Cloud had said to her (in the lifestream?) "I could never live up to being Cloud...I hope you find the real Cloud someday"
or somewhere along that line ok, my memory is fuzzy.

See, Cloud visited Nibelhelm with Sephy and Zack..and Tifa thought he didn't return and was disappointed right?
Why?? She only had her eyes on the first class soldiers! Damnit if she had given those lowly-ranked more close attention, she could have spotted Cloud already :rolleyes:

You're right. Being around Tifa only made Cloud feel like a failure, like he would disappoint her. Why do you think he never made himself known to her when he was in Nibelheim? Because he was ashamed of himself. He believed he was a failure and he didn't want Tifa to know about it. :(

Aeris tried to help Cloud, tried to make him happy. She was the first to notice that something was wrong with him, apart from Vincent, who is a dark reflection of what Cloud could become should he not find his light. Tifa on the other hand, tried to make Cloud love her. Doing everything because of her love for Cloud and thus in the end, he chose the one who made him happy over the one who tried to make him love her.

A good example of this is at the end, where he reaches for Aeris, Tifa fall and he jumps to catch her.

Come on, if you'd just saved the love of your life, wouldn't you talk about trying to find another girl? Didn't think so. He see's Tifa as a friend, this is why he tells her this intimate piece of information, that he's going to search for Aeris, his light and love.

Tifa wasn't in the origial FFVII and Aeris didn't die, so right from the very start, it was Aeris in his heart.

Also, Vincent suffered a similar fate, the love of his life fell in love with another (in Aeris' case it was her devotion to the planet) and this other was responsible for her death (had Aeris not prayed for the planet's safety, she wouldn't have died). In both cases Sephiroth is the weapon, the means that caused the deaths, killing Lucrecia in childbirth and spearing Aeris through the heart but there are differences too...

Vincent gave up, he locked himself in a coffin within a dingy basement and Hojo locked the door. He didn't carry out Lucrecia's last wish of protecting Sephiroth, even lyine to her, telling her he was dead and then being one of the group that did kill him. He came across her by accident in that waterfall and then, he left with Cloud and co. I think he's a dark reminder of what Cloud could become should he give up on Aeris.

darkslavechaos... that is a very good analysis on the parallels between cloud and vinny! I agree with you...thus Cloud told Vinny he will try (to be forgiven for a sin)...and not become like Vinny..trapped in his own darkness...

You know I find CLoud and Aerith's r/s in KH somewhat linked to AC..maybe it's just me..but you see, in KH, Cloud told Sora that because he wanted to find his light , he resorted to darkness...in the end, he lost sight of his light, and became trapped in the dark..something along that line right?
AC could be interpreted in the same way, metaphorically...Cloud wanted to find the promise land after FFVII, didn't he? That was his last, and (in)famous line in the game...
However, 2 years later in AC, we see Cloud looking so lost and hopeless (trapped in the dark)...he has not found the promised land (his light)...somewhere in between the end of FFVII and AC, he has somehow lost sight of his light...

I think the flower field scene signifies that he found his light back, and therefore regained determination to fight the SHM.

>>>I don't really think Tifa could have "loved" him for anything other than his looks when she was growing up, because she never knew the real Cloud. I think it's realistic to say she was beginning to love him during the game, after she had been able to communicate somewhat. And she finally understood a little bit about him, especially when she saw the negative effects her bitchy childhood actions had on poor little Cloud...

That is so well said. I couldn't agree more. Tifa should have apologized to Cloud for what she did to him during childhood :angry: :angry: :angry:

Tifa vs. Aerith.......devil vs. angel....hmmm...isn't it obvious who is the right choice here??? No, duh. :rolleyes:

Aerisfan1, please use the Edit button next time, rather than double posting, ok? Just a friendly reminder... ~FF_G~

Actually, she did apologize. It's not that Tifa *did* anything mean to Cloud during their childhood. She didn't tease him or make fun of him, that we know of. However, she was part of the group that rejected him and - as far as we know - did nothing to stop the others from rejecting Cloud.

They didn't know one another well during childhood. In fact, Tifa says during the Lifestream Event that she didn't know Cloud well at all during childhood. Their only real chance to talk with one another was at the well scene, and Tifa had to ask him three times before he agreed to the Promise. It wasn't until after he left Nibelheim that Tifa started thinking about him - someone that she hardly knew. That's similar to a teenager having a crush on a pop idol they don't even know.

And why did she think of him? Why did she force him into making the Promise? Because she thought he would become a SOLDIER. She fell in love with a Cloud that wasn't really him. Cloud and Tifa both had crushes on someone they didn't know, which is one of the reasons I call it a "false love" based on false pretenses.

Tifa and Cloud were not "in love" as children - they hardly knew one another. This means that they were just getting to know one another at the beginning of the game when Cloud joined Avalanche.

Anybody read the essay on the final FMV? They talk about Tifa being embrassed when Cloud says he wants to meet Aeris in the Promised Land. They also say that Tifa smiles to cover up her embrassment. In the same essay they also say that what Tifa didn't mean pleasure, but embrassment. I really don't think that Tifa sacrificed her happiness just so Cloud could be happy. I think that Tifa was jelous of Aeris, knowing that she died, Cloud still loved her even though she died. My question is how could Tifa try to separate Cloud from Aeris's spirit?

Hmmm... :huh: I don't know, I always thought really highly of Tifa during the final FMV. I mean, I am sure she felt somewhat jealous, but I think it was mostly just despair, because she realized that Aerith was the one in Cloud's heart, not her. I always felt that Tifa accepted Cloud's wish to be reunited with Aerith. She even seems to support that wish in AC. She just doesn't think Cloud should rush into death to accomplish this goal.

Anyways... I am not sure if I understand your question... Are you asking how Tifa could keep Cloud away from the spirit of Aerith? If so, then I don't know. Tifa could never control something like a spirit. And I don't think she would ever try to keep Aerith from visiting Cloud, especially if it would ease Cloud's guilt. :huh: I am not sure if that was what you were asking, but I tried to answer... ;)

I think that Tifa, by this point did love Cloud, even though she only really knew the stong side of him and in loving him, she finally realised that for him to be happy, she'd have to let him and that love go. When she offers to help him find Aerith, it's an act of a supporting friend because if she loses his heart, no doubt she'd want to keep his friendship.

hi people, i have a question..i have the spanish version of the game, and in the end, cloud said to tifa, after the hand of aeris is shown:

i think im beggining to understand

tifa: what?

cloud: an answer of the planet...the promised land...i think if i go there, i will can be...with her....


now tifa understand cloud loves aeris..not her...its curious but the firs time i saw the ending i thought it was tifas hand who was in the lifestream..but i saw it again and i thought..¡ its not tifa, its aeris, that is why cloud is smiling", i was very happy


its like this in english version? :D

Yeah, but it is more like "An answer from the planet... the Promised Land... I think I can meet her... there..." :D

I kinda prefer the Spanish version. Not "I can meet her" but "I can BE WITH her"
Awwww :wub:

I like the Spanish verion too!! Plus, "To be with" implies "To stay with." "To meet can imply "To be with" or "To see again [for a short time]"

Grr. I'm feeling not entirely fond of Cloti. Like, even angrier than usual. I'm not sure why ... ? :unsure:

Have you been debating with them recently? Debating with them always gets me to feeling that way. :lol: I think it's great for Clorith fans to stand up for what they believe in the Love Triangle debates, but I also understand how frustrating and irritating it can be. :(

The funny thing is, I haven't been in a debate recently... I think it might have omething to do with the large ammount of Cloti doujinshi up on auction or something. :unsure: I'm getting overexposure to the cloti-dom... :ph43r:

Oh well, maybe is should go to a debate to let off some steam, hmm.... B)