I really really don't understand why Clotis think Tifa was the main heroine. SHE DIDN'T DO ANYTHING BUT LIE! The only purpose of her was to actually help Cloud find the truth about his past, in which she knew about the whole time!!



:cloud: = main hero
:aeris: = main heroine
:tifa: = supporting

They think she's the main heroine because:

1. She's his childhood friend

2. She met him first before Aerith.

3. People like her cause she's hot (basically because of her boobs)

4. They don't like Aerith, duh.....

5. She think she knows all about Cloud's feeling because she can get him to talk to her more...

There's more but the talk of this irritates me <_< ...

Cloti fans are stupid daydreamer, should have noticed that by now...:rolleyes: :lmao:

that's it?! those are their reasons?! :lmao:
man, they are stupid.

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: SEE!! what did I tell you?! And you wanna know what else they said?

They say Tifa is perfect for Cloud's wife after FFVII because since she's good at taking care of Marlene, they should have kids!!!

I'm like "WTF?!!"

Tell me that's not seriously stupid?

Well, Nomura says otherwise:

Nomura: "To tell you the truth, FFVII's theme was 'life'. We had instructions from Mr. Sakaguchi saying, 'More than depicting life in the theme, you have to depict life and death. Anyhow you have to portray death.' With the death of a character, we wanted to have the player feel pain. So to do so, portraying the death of the heroine Aerith would be the most painful and important/heavy [on the feelings/emotions]. So, to portray death properly, it was decided that we would show Aerith's death."

:devil: Plus, CloTis are forgetting that the main hero never ends up with the female fighter. :yawn: Did Squall end up with Quistis? Did Zidane go for Freya? Did Tidus leave Yuna for Rikku? Nope! They all ended up with the white mage of the party. Just like Cloud. :D

:cheer: you tell em FF godess!! I say forget what Nomura says!!!

You know what? I think Nomura's a Cloti fan!! <_<

They're saying that "Ooh, every heroine from final fantasy look like each other. Tifa, Rinoa, Garnet and Yuna all look alike. No one looks like Aerith." :mad: :mad: Stupid stupid stupid!!

What?! Where'd you get that idea?

That's... kinda hard to do, considering FFG just posted a quote from Nomura admitting that Aerith is a heroine. :lol: Although it might not matter to you personally, I don't think you can forget what Nomura says when taking this matter to debate. He definitely has some say on the FF games, and his comments will hold some weight.

It's either that, or you disregard ALL quotes by the staff, including what Nomura said about Cloud finding Aerith being a possible interpretation of KH1's ending.

Why would you say that? Just because he included Tifa in KH2? Or is it for some other reason?? :blink:

Nomura could just as easily be a Cleris fan, but is being pushed by marketing strategies to appeal to Clotis and drag them into the KH market. Let's not jump to conclusions on someone we don't know. Especially someone who was also involved in the plot of FFVII, the game from which the couple we adore comes.

I agree that Clotis are dead wrong when they say Aerith wasn't a heroine. If FFG's quote wasn't enough, Nomura has also been quoted elsewhere saying that FFVII has two heroines: Aerith AND Tifa.

So... *throws THAT theory into the trash head* :D

But if there was only one heroine in FFVII (which that is what I think), who would it most likely be?

Aerith, definately. I see Tifa as a more supporting heroine, not even a co-heroine. Besides, Tifa was a last add on so Aerith has always been regarded as the main heroine of FFVII. :whistle:

Aerith's role and what she did was way bigger than what Tifa did. I just don't understand those Clotis. I don't think I ever will.

If I had to choose one, it would definitely be Aerith.

Not just because I'm a Cleris, but this is based on looking at Aerith and Tifa's respective roles outside of being Cloud's love interest.

I found Aerith to be very well-intergrated into the main plot-- her mother is a Cetra, whose ancestors defeated Jenova. Her father is an ex-scientist from Shinra who was responsible for the creation of the game's main villain. Her ex-boyfriend was Cloud's best friend and responsible for saving his life. Aerith, herself, has gained the interest of Hojo, the father of the game's main villain.

Tifa, in comparison, has less link to the main plot and her role is mostly dependant on Cloud's existance. Without Cloud, she likely would've stayed in Sector 7 with AVALANCHE, bombing reactors and possibly dying in the Sector 7 crash. She might've survived, but her escape from Midgar was a direct result of rescuing Aerith from Shinra. The Nibelheim fire would've happened regardless of whether Tifa was there or not. Take Cloud out of the equation, and Tifa doesn't have much link to the main plot at all.

But I still say they're both heroines. :P Among the reasons being that if Tifa hadn't found Cloud at the train station, he may never have joined AVALANCHE and FFVII wouldn't be. Poor Cloud may have ended up spending his life with the Sewer Guy at Sector 5. >_<

I've read somewhere that the role of "childhood friend" was actually meant for Aerith, but it was later given to Tifa. Hmph, probably to give her a purpose to be in the game.

I personally believe that Aeris was, is, and always will be considered the main heroine of FFVII, at least to Nomura and the rest of the staff. I just started another replay of FFVII yesterday (I'm now at the part where the team goes to rescue Aeris), after about six months off, and had almost forgotten how much she shines as a character, outside all the fan interpretations of "SHES TEH SLUT!!" or "SHES TEH ANGEL!!". I simply saw Tifa in the same light as I saw characters like Quistis, Freya, Eiko, Rikku, or Lulu--they need to be a part of the rest of the cast to really make a difference. To me, her primary role was Cloud and Barret's coworker in AVALANCHE. Even when there wasn't much to work with, she tried hard to do her best and still stay classy about it, and sort of kept herself on the down low while she backed up the two head honchoes from behind the scenes. I think I wouldn't have liked CloTi as much as I do if I looked at Tifa in the way most people do--they either think she is THE heroine of FFVII, or the ultimate evil manipulative slut/liar of the group. I don't think either one of these fits her at all. To me, she's just always been something of a mom who gives the rest of the team a little push every once in a while. :tifa:

But when I met Aeris, I knew immediately when she joined the party--this was the heroine of Final Fantasy VII. This was the girl who was going to capture everybody's hearts, who drew in focus and stayed strongly optimistic throughout the whole game. She was the beacon of hope for me that FFVII wasn't going to be some dark, dank wad of emo. She stood out from the rest because she contrasted so much with the pessimism I had begun to see in the game. She just so genuinely cared about her world, and it showed so much that I was inevitably attached to her character. I never wanted her out of my party, because it seemed so incomplete without her when nobody else was as open about their feelings as she was. This was her story, and it was as open and honest as I ever could have hoped for in the telling of the life of a heroine. :aeris:

Of course, in any game, book, movie, or anything else you can think of that contains a hero and a heroine, it's inevitable that their worlds will intertwine and become the central focus of the story. And when it first happens, it has to be defining, brilliant, and amazingly real in a way that almost seems unbelievable. Final Fantasy VII pulled it off beautifully when Aeris met Cloud--he had lost his cool, hard exterior and taken a plunge out of Barret and Tifa's world, where he was constantly putting up a facade in order to make them think he was strong enough to cope with the tasks they set for him. But now, he finally entered the world he was fated to find. For me, Cloud literally falling into Aeris's life was one of the most well done and most strikingly defining moments in Final Fantasy VII. It was just so nice and light, like an enormous weight had been lifted off the shoulders of the player. Cloud and Aeris just seemed so relaxed and at ease with each other. The tension that existed when he was surrounded by the dangerously intense world of AVALANCHE had completely vanished, so you almost forgot about the small problems and really looked at the big picture that was Cloud and his feelings. He showed a new side of himself when faced against the bright and cheerful flower girl--more open, more carefree, and just plain happier to be there. (Just a little something that I found very funny: My older sister first saw Cloud and Aeris together in the church in their first meeting, when she was watching me play. She literally laughed out loud and said, "Cloud's in looooooove." :lmao: Funny how even people like my sister, who isn't much of a romanticist at ALL, could still sense that there was something in the air in that scene. :cleris: ). I could feel that even though Cloud and Aeris came from two very different environments, their differences seemed to compliment each other in a way that was cute and fun to watch. It was almost impossible for me not to recognize how perfectly they seemed to fit together, from their dialogue to even the most small things like the ways they were suited in battle, especially when put up against the almost nerve-wracking awkwardness of Cloud's interactions with Barret and Tifa. It struck me hard how Cloud and Aeris were just so universally well-written and set up to be a couple, like such childhood favorites as Mickey and Minnie Mouse, or Belle and the Beast, or Simba and Nala, or Link and Zelda, or Ariel and Eric... the list goes on and on. :fangirl:

My thoughts on the late edition of Tifa were that they needed someone feminine to balance out the man's world Final Fantasy VII was becoming. At first, all they had was Aeris and Yuffie for female characters, and even then I think Yuffie was intended to be optional. Naturally, they needed more gender balance. But like FF_G's worship-worthy Nomura quote said, Aeris was killed in order to portray the game's theme of life and death and what meaning they have. To kill the symbol of innocence and all things good, or the main heroine of the story, and to STILL allow the hero to cling onto her like a lovesick puppy, never moving on and even communicating with her, was enough to tell me that Final Fantasy VII was portraying the interpretation that death is not the end of life. I think that this showed in the way Aeris portrayed her feelings through Tifa, and as MOTP confirmed, even used her to enter Cloud's mind and set him straight live from the Promised Land. To me, post-Aeris's death, Tifa was intended to be a kind of vessel for Aeris, to emphasize the fact that she lives on in people. I think Tifa was created for the purpose of this--just so Aeris could get through to Cloud, and still portray the theme of life and death and their strange connections without a cheesey ressurrection. I think Tifa was given some of Aeris's qualities (things like the "childhood friend" role and the placement of companionship with Barret and Cloud as a team come to mind) so that she could be more adequately symbolized as Aeris's way of being both alive and dead at the same time. Not saying that Tifa will ever be the same as Aeris or vice versa, but I think Tifa was added in to help show the player that the dead will always live on in those who knew them.

And that is the end of my rant. :D

tifa is more of a supporter then a hero cause she didnt do much but cheer for people on the sidelines <_<

the reason im a cleris is cause i liked the fact the way SE made all the main hero men go with the magical people..it just made me think how cool it was for a human to get with a non-human person^_^

so KAWAII :cleris:

now see luna u said what i was going to say u cleris fan u :lmao: :huggle:

Nomura said that the Main heroine would wear red not black. Black represents death. Plus Nomura said that Cloud was subjected to bullying in his childhood by Tifa and her friends. You see this when she and Cloud are in the Lifestream when he sees what really happened.

There is no doubt that Aerith is the main heroine and Tifa is just a supporter.
What makes her the main heroine? For me is her death... :envy:

Cloti fans will say anything to make us mad!!! :rolleyes: they're so dumb, they make me wanna laugh!! :lmao:

You know some Clotis I know are weak-minded. Or should I say, ex-Clotis.
My good friend, Carol. Told me she thought he liked Tifa at first, but she realized he really liked Aerith. I gave her more evidence of it, and afterwards, she liked CloAer more. :D

But my friend Natalie loves and adores Tifa. That's fine, but what if she likes Cloti? *gasps* Gotta go get some amo, try and turn her like Carol! *runs off*

The fact that Aerith saved everyone in the Planet in the end... that made me put the title "main heroine" on her.

Tifa helped Cloud a lot resolving his past, she helped him save the world, but she didn't do anything extraordinary that would make me say that she is the heroine.

Aerith= Heroine, no doubt in my mind.

Even though she died, she was remembered throughout the whole game, never forgotten. At the end of the game, that's who was on Cloud's mind.

Tifa was more of a supporting character, she didn't really have a main role. You could probably still have the same FFVII storyline if Tifa wasn't in it. For example, instead of Tifa helping Cloud find himself in the lifestream, they could've changed it so it was only Cloud finding himself. She didn't play that big of a role.

Now Aerith on the other hand....If she WASN'T in the game, that'd ruin the whole story and plot....and Cloud would probably never smile if she was never there.

Although just to make Tifa feel better, the game wouldn't be the same without her. :D

:cleris:

Of course Aerith is the heirone. Just because's she's dead doesn't mean she can't play her part in the story anymore. Cloti fans are like, once Aerith is dead, then they'll forget all about her and never bring her up again in the game.....WRONG!!!! :nono: Cloud is the one who keeps bringing her up everytime he thinks about her death, and if her keeps remembering her, evryone will!!! :dance:

I've always thought of Aeris as the main heroine. Maybe I'm just following FF tradition of how the hero tends to meet the main heroine during the course of the game and fall in love. On another note, I noticed that Aeris' profile was right after Cloud's in the FF7 game manual, and it wasn't in order of appearance either. Completely unintended to give any hints, I'm sure. :D

Hmm, well, I think that's downplaying Tifa's role a bit much. I always thought one of the reasons Cloud was so distraught when Tifa couldn't support his version of events was because he'd lost his only trustworthy link to the past. He could hardly trust Sephiroth, Zack was already dead-- and when even Tifa doubted him, that just completely shattered Cloud's confidence that his past was the correct one.

If Tifa hadn't been with him during the Lifestream Event to assure him that his memories prior to Jenova were valid, I don't think Cloud would've been as successful in uncovering his true past.

Very true. That's how I normally viewed Tifa too. Her overall role in the game is very similar to the other supporting females of the other games.

However, unlike them, Tifa shares a much stronger bond with the main character than say, Rikku does with Tidus. I suppose her relationship with Cloud works somewhat like a double-edged sword.

One one hand, she is much closer to him than other supporting females with the main character. It makes it harder for me to view her as just another support character because of that.

Yet, because Cloud is basically her strongest link to the main plot, it also weakens her role as the game's heroine. You'd think a heroine would be much more well-intergrated into the overall plot, instead of being dependant solely on one thread.

I loved reading your whole post. Your description of the moment when Cloud and Aerith officially met is brilliant, and exactly what I was thinking when I watched it unfold. :yahoo:

Just curious, where did you read that??

There were 3 heroines in FFVII, Yuffie included...however, I've got only one thing to say about who the main heroine is:

FF: International says it all.
Clotis can argue until they turn blue in the face, and I wouldn't care, ya know? ^_^

MoTP pretty much stated the reason why Aerith was killed off: death =/= end of existance. Some of these Clotis need to get that through their heads. It wasn't to end the LT, or because Nomura "hated Aerith". If so, as Remy pointed out, Cloud wouldn't be single. :P

Excellent points there, I completely agree. It makes it hard for everyone--myself included-- to really grasp Tifa's role when she is so heavily tied to Cloud, but not necessarily as a sole affliction to the plot. Once Final Fantasy XII hits, my hope for the future is that characters like Penelo, who know the main character very well, thus fairly lowering their level of overall contribution to the main plot, will show us other examples of characters like Tifa and what their meaning is.

And it makes me happy that people enjoy my rantings. Good start to the day. :huggle:

Agreed. I never saw Tifa as much more of a heroine than Yuffie. I mean, look at all Yuffie did to help her hometown and to save the planet. Sure, she didn't support Cloud the way Tifa did, but she did just as much to save the world. Honestly, neither of these two girls can hold a candle to Aerith. :D

Ah, yes, FFVII: International! :cleris: Cloud on the first disk (just like Squall on the first disk of FFVIII and Zidane on the first disk of FFIX) and Aerith on the second disk (just like Rinoa on the second disk of FFVIII and Garnet on the second disk of FFIX). :law:

Exactly! Animefringe, an online Anime magazine, said it best:

The title itself speaks volumes about Aerith and her position within the mythos of Final Fantasy VII. The kanji used in the title for the word miko are the same used for Shrine Maidens, priestesses in Shinto shrines who were believed to be able to communicate with the gods in ancient times. By giving this moniker to Aerith, it not only suggests that she is no mere mortal but also that she possess abilities which set her apart from the rest of humanity: the abilities of the Cetra.

This means that, for Aerith, death was not the end.

Told in the third-person, Hoshi wo Meguru Miko follows Aerith as she comes to terms with her new disembodied state as a part of the Lifestream, but with her consciousness intact, which is revealed to be a Cetra trait. This allows her to keep tabs on Cloud and the others as they resume their quest to kill Sephiroth and avert disaster.

As Aerith travels through the Lifestream, coming to terms with her own death and musing on the philosophical issues surrounding life and death, she is able to speak with souls who have died -- such as Zack, Professor Hojo and Jessie.

A beautifully written tale of life after death and a philosophical debate on the Oversoul, Hoshi wo Meguru Miko is as engaging a story as the game itself. It serves to fill the void created by Aerith's mortal demise and the feeling of grief felt by gamers as they struggled on to finish the game without the flower-seller girl.

The story also shows that even though she was cut down by Sephiroth's blade, Aerith remains a key figure in the story and as active as if she was still a member of Cloud's party. When not conversing with souls who have recently passed over, she is following the progress of her friends, even aiding Tifa to bring Cloud back from his catatonic state. Most importantly, it is revealed that it was Aerith who invoked the Lifestream to rise up to destroy Meteor. As the last remaining Cetra, she is the planet's guardian, even after her mortal demise, and this explains how she was able to appear in Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children.

:aeris: Death means NOTHING in the world of FF. I don't get why this is so hard for people to understand. <_<

And, no, Nomura didn't dislike Aerith at all. This interview with him kills that idea:

EGM: "We heard that the death of Aerith and the creation of Tifa both originated in a phone call between you two [Nomura and Kitase]...."

Nomura: "It's funny, some magazine ran that story, but only the beginning and ending of it. People think that I wanted to kill off Aerith and replace her with Tifa as the main character! [Laughs] The actual conversation between Mr. Kitase and myself was very, very long. Originally, there were only going to be three characters in the entire game: Cloud, Barret, and Aerith...."

So, no, Tifa was never the heroine and she sure never replaced Aerith. In fact, the reason why Aerith was sacrificed is because of her importance in the plot. They wanted to sacrifice someone that would affect people most, so they chose Aerith.

One word: OWNED. :cheer:

I loved that post...Uh..Luna-Naryu, I think it was yours. It totally wants to make me pick up the game and start playing it over yet again.

To me, yes, Aerith was the main heroine, and Tifa is a supporting heroine, as it was intended to be.


I do think that the 2-3 people need to chill on the CloTi bashing, as we do have members here that do like the coupling. It wasn't just one post, but repeated, and I dont like it, and I'm sure that the mods dont tolerate it, and it makes our friends who also like this pairing as well as the other not want to be here. I certainly dont want those members to leave. You're being no better than the famed rabid's...so I ask, please stop, we have a CloTi bashing forum for that. (Sorry if I'm taking mod jobs away, lol, I just dont like to see it)

*giggles*

Erms...*coughsomeofthesemembersdon'tknowabouttheventingforumscough*
Anyhow, as this is a CloudXAerith forums, there's bound to be one or two little comments here and there against CloudXTifa. Many of us in here, myself included, aren't partial to Cloti...so we're going to sound a bit harsh at times. I apologize for that.

I didn't exactly see any outright flaming against Cloti though. They were more like one or two line opinionated statements, so I really don't think it's that big of a deal. I guess everyone's just going to have to practice some tolerance.

FF_G:

Exactly...and where was Tifa? On the fourth disk(the extras disk) with the rest of the supporting cast. If she were "main", I don't see why she couldn't have shared the second disk with Aerith... :whistle:

Funny thing is, Aerith died after the first disk too. Yet, they stick her on the second one...the one where she was supposedly "replaced with Tifa" and the one where all the "Cloti" happened. Oh the irony... :giggle:

I'd say its definately Aerith, mainly because of what her death had, and how she and Holy had a large envolvement of saving the planet from Meteor. Also she has the colours, the dress and the battle techinque and style that most FF females have. Most of them are magic users or White Mages.

Garnet/Dagger was on the first disc along with Zidane on the UK's set.

She was on the second disk alone in the US set that I have. :D

We had all of the character's on the discs.

Disc 1 - Zidane, Dagger (Garnet)
Disc 2 - Steiner, Vivi
Disc 3 - Freya, Quina
Disc 4 - Eiko, Amarant

Even better. SE should have stuck Cloud and Aerith on the same one... :giggle:

The "stupid CloTi" comments on the first page made by Vanessa and daydreamer were rude to the other CloTi members who also like to spend time on this board, who have learned said tolerance, and do not bash other members for liking the opposite fandom. You want to flame or bash? Keep it in the venting forum, not in here. If I were a CloTi fan I'd be highly upset to come into a thread to read that they generalize my fandom as stupid, like the rabids do to us.

Yep, Aerith is the main heroine, but it doesn't matter
for me if Aerith wasn't one. I would still like her :aeris:
It's about character value for me :D

but yeah she's the main heroine :aeris:

Amathala:

I don't think that whoever made those comments were referring to the idea of CloudXTifa. They were talking specifically about people who think Tifa was the main heroine. I didn't see any ongoing and outright flaming, Amathala. This is a CloudXAerith forum, not a neutral forum. Those of you who do like CloudXTifa as well are just going to have to be a bit more tolerating. As long as there isn't any actual flaming (Tifa is a #$%$&*# ugly whore, etc.etc.), I really don't see a big problem. Likewise, I wouldn't go over to a CloudXTifa forum and demand that they not call Cleris "stupid". It just wouldn't make any sense. Know what I mean? :unsure:

Please keep in mind that not everyone can view the venting forum.

Both Amathala and Hades' Daughter have made good points. I can understand Amathala not wanting to hear us bash Cloti's with outrageous insults. That's just reducing us to what they've done to us so many times in the past. Hades' Daughter also brings up a good point that this is a forum which supports CloudxAerith. Talk against the Cloti's will inevitably happen. It's not a Neutral forum, and it's very good when we can back up our opinions.

However, the way in which we voice our opinions should be considered. It's far more constructive to give actual reasons why the Cloti's are wrong instead of saying things such as, "OMG ZE #*@$%'ing CLOTIS R STOOPIT". Many good points have been made in this thread by FF_Goddess, Lynn, Luna-Nayru, Hades' Daughter, and others. Those points are very constructive and serve as good evidence to support the Cleris perspective. Those points can be used in LT debates to show why the Cloti's are wrong, which is far more supportive of CloudxAerith than outright bashing.

Please keep that in mind while discussing issues such as who is the Main Heroine of FFVII, okay? Let's try to focus on intelligent reasons and evidence instead of bashing with comments that insult others.

Thank you :huggle:
~ Anastar

It's okay to disagree with Cloti perspectives, but calling them "dreamers" or "stupid" serves no purpose except to tick off the nice Clotis who are members of this forum. And that's hardly what any of us want.

In a nutshell. Everybody listen to Anastar (who is our Cetra-Tyrant and will force you to watch Tifa riding on Fenrir on repeat 24/7 if you disobey). :P SIEG HEIL!

Couldn't agree more. I dislike the sharp line drawn between "main" and "supporting" that sometimes happens in games (FFVIII and Shadow Hearts 2 readily come to mind). Character development can suffer greatly as a result. FFX wasn't as obvious, but I still didn't find a "Tifa" among its cast.

Basically, I would like to see more relationships among the main cast that last throughout the game. Not merely inserting characters who only matter during their recruitment, just to add to the number of playable characters.

I thought Lulu was a lot like Tifa. She even looks like Tifa. She has long dark hair, wears black, has reddish-brown eyes, and is... "well endowed", if you get my drift. :whistle: She is also a lot like Tifa in personality. She has a painful past (she has lost people she cared about, like Tifa), is very pessimistic, and has a difficult time letting others see her softer side, just like Tifa. She is also a supportive friend to Tidus, like Tifa supports Cloud. Heck, you could even choose to have Tidus be more attracted to Lulu at times during the game, just like you could play with Cloud's affection scores. But, in the end, there was only one true love interest for both guys. :P