I read this article about schools and businesses being forbidden to use Christmas carols and so forth because of its association with Christian values:

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Members of the Columbia High School brass ensemble were not allowed to play Christmas carols at their holiday concert this year - not even instrumental versions. At a school board meeting Monday night, parents and students alike expressed their outrage.

"This is censorship at its most basic level and political correctness to its extreme," said student Ryan Dahn.

"When you close that door you are supporting ignorance, and I think it's a very sad thing," said parent Melanie Amsterdam.

The controversy is by no means an isolated case. The role of religion during the Christmas season is a source of annual angst. But this year, people in "red," or Republican, America - particularly Christian conservatives - are in an unprecedented uproar.

They are sending letters to public schools in Chicago, where the words "Merry Christmas" have been excised from a popular song; boycotting Macy's, which has removed "Merry Christmas" signs from its department stores; and protesting the exclusion of a church group from Denver's annual Parade of Lights.

"What they don't understand is that by not wanting to offend anyone, they're excluding a huge group of people, and that is all of those of the Christian faith," said Doug Newcomb, business administrator of the Faith Bible Chapel in Arvada, Colo.

Attorney Demetrios Stratis, affiliated with the conservative civil liberties group Alliance Defense Fund, is one of 700 Christian lawyers across the country poised to pounce on such cases.

"We just don't believe that you need to stamp out religion in the public square," he said.

There are those in Maplewood - and in "blue," or Democratic, America generally - who say religion should be a private matter.

"Holiday celebrations where Christian music is being sung make people feel different," said Mark Brownstein, a Maplewood parent. "And because it is such a majority, it makes the minority feel uncomfortable."

But Eric Chabrow, who is Jewish, says his son, Sam, should be able to play Christmas songs in the high school band. Chabrow is a part of "blue" America and generally supports the separation of church and state.

"I think that people have become a little too dogmatic in their beliefs on either side," he said. "And I think in this world today, we need to look at that center. I mean, the center in this country is vanishing. And maybe that's what's happening here."

He says there must be solutions that are neither "red" nor "blue" - just common sense. Solutions may not be forthcoming: Christian lawyers may sue the Maplewood school board, while the school superintendent is vowing not to bend to outside pressure.
Source: http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.ad...207210009990001
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The idea of Christmas is rooted in celebrating the birth of Christ, but isn't this going a bit too far? Christmas also promotes the idea of peace, love, harmony, fellowship, and good will toward all human beings. I think the idea of Christmas goes beyond being nothing but a religious celebration, and the celebration of it shouldn't be limited to those who believe in what the birth of Christ represents. What do you think?

*Sighs* The banning of Christmas from the public is very frustrating. I can see the idea behind it, I had a Pagen friend who got offended every winter because of all the Christmas songs we sang in choir, but the thing is: I would be offended if we didn't. And I am offended by the removal of Christmas. So, if these folks are looking to avoid offending someone, why not worry about the MAJORITY, not the minority. I'm sorry if Christmas offends you, but frankly, there's more Christians here and that's the way it will likely always be.

But that's just in public places, right? In everyones home they can do whatever they want, right? For me it's fine. I'm an atheist so I don't believe in christ's birth, even though I like the idea of peace and love.

This is almost funny.

I think it's very sad that they're so determined to be politically correct that they're forgetting that Christmas isn't just about being Christian. I myself used to go to church, so I've always loved the whole Christmas season, but even after I stopped going to my church, it was still special. Christmas is a time to be with family, and to celebrate all things good. I understand how some Jehova's Witnesses for example might feel excluded, but they tend to not really care one way or another, as long as they don't participate. My fiance's family doesn't celebrate, and don't care for it, but they aren't trying to abolish it. It's everyone else who doesn't understand the views that are afraid of the reactions, which in my opinion is silly because it's never seemed to be a problem before. It's sad, but we can't let it ruin our Christmas spirit, eh? :)

Exactly. To me christmas is not about the birth of Christ or anything religious for that matter. I'm an atheist, I only believe in myself...well maybe not even myself. ^_^

But christmas is still a very important time of the year to me as then I can just relax for a while and spend time with the people I love. That's what christmas is to me. :)

This whole thing is just plain silly, I think it's best I just stop thinking for a while and forget what I just saw here. :rolleyes:

Really...I think that Americans are gonna lose a very important part of their identity if they remain so intently focused on eradicating everything Christian from their lives.

Americans . . . Eradicating . . . Christianity :huh:

I'm sorry I just have trouble believing the idea that a country that seems to be partly controlled by it's raving fundies could do something like that.

It seems more like the Wraith of Political Correctness is affecting the major religion of the country which is understandbly pissing off it's followers.

Me? I couldn't care less since I'm neither American nor Christian so this doesn't affect me at all, Christmas is just a day on the calander in which I give out and recieve presents.

I feel like people are pushing so hard to get "Christian values" shoved down everyones' throats, but I really do like Christmas. I'm an atheist, sure, but that's not what it's about for me. I like the feeling of togetherness, seeing family, and the atmosphere. It's the music, the smells, the decorations in the malls and whatnot. And the gifts of course!! :P

I don't think Christmas should be taken away, people shouldn't be forced to participate, and I understand that people might be offended. What people need to understand is that Christmas is about more than the birth of Christ, or whatever; It's about love, peace, family & friends and the spirit of the season.

I think you have it the wrong way around. :P

Have they?
Sounds right to me. :P

Gotta agree with Seeker.
This is almost funny... and ridiculous. And Christmas is more than love, peace, family & friends, it's about the birth of Christ.

I just can't believe people would argue over petty things like that.

Anyways, I think people should have a more relaxed mental attitude over things like this. Jeez, ppl just get so wrapped up in small details of life!

Your rather sure of yourself, and the only one getting hot and bothered here is you my friend.
(Don't worry, I think they are overreacting too, but you aren't totally right.)

*Looks around* I feel like such a minority here being Christian...I've never felt like that before.

Anyways, the way I see it is: Nobody's had any problem with Christmas until NOW, why NOW? What's so different about THIS year?

And, I think Christmas is IMPORTANT. I mean, look at what people do during the season: They give to charities in RECORD numbers, there are all kinds of service done for those in need, people spend time with their families and strengthen bonds. Could this happen without Christmas? SHOULD it happen without Christmas? Frankly, yes to both. But it doesn't, does it? We NEED Christmas, even if just for our own sake.

DQ, it's not the country being run by a religion, it's a country that was FOUNDED by a religion. It's just like the position in Utah, it was FOUNDED by the Mormons, and yet we get all kinds of flack there about "tyranny" and crap like that.

Please, why you, I can't debate against you, why.

I'm not agreeing with the PoliticallyCorrect Psyco's they are going too far, and I'm not calling your religion stupid or crazy.

I'm sorry for making you feel such a way.

Americans tend to get hot and bothered over many issues. :lol: This is a perfect example of how ridiculous it can get. It may seem funny, but when it affects your school or your community, it becomes more serious.

If I were the parent of a student in this school where my child wasn't allowed to sing Christmas carols because the school was trying to be politically correct, I would be very upset. Christmas to me is a beautiful season, whether or not you believe in the significance of the birth of Christ. The spirit of Christmas is one that should be encouraged rather than disallowed.

The religious aspect of Christmas isn't the only meaning behind it. Religious teachings aren't allowed in many schools, and some schools don't even allow prayer in the name of political correctness. But why should the meaning of Christmas, which can be celebrated from a secular as well as a religious standpoint, be sacrificed?

The meaning of fellowship and good will toward others is a valuable lesson for any child, and it shouldn't be sacrificed in the name of being politically correct.

That whole thing is sheer craziness!

In the school systems they should be teaching inclusion. Which would mean not only teaching all of the children about christmas, but all other forms of holiday celebration as well!

And it shouldn't be taking place just during the holidays. It should be taught year round with all the many different culture's celebrations, traditions, and beliefs.

A fully educated child can make rational, intelligent decisions on their own.
And by inclusion, hate crimes would decrease over the years due to the education of our young people reguarding such matters.


It's almost as if the public school systems are setting our children up for failure.
Every child should feel important, wanted, and accepted.
By telling the children they can't do something like sing carols, pray to themselves, carry a bible with them, etc., imposes on their personal beliefs and makes them feel like they're doing something wrong, or that they won't be accepted if they do it, or practice it.



The only thing that bothered me this year was that a santa claus was brought to my place of work, and we as teachers were supposed to take all of the children to have their pictures taken with santa. I was extremely irritated because that's not something I would be practicing with my own child (when I have one :D) and the thought of someone else imposing their practices on my family values was extremely irritating... Especially since the parents were never notified of this event until after it took place and they got the picture.