Title: What Did The Meteor Represent?
Description: What do you think the Meteor represented
BusterBlader - January 19, 2006 04:55 PM (GMT)
Have seen the the ending of FF7? If you did, how many noticed that the Holy wanted Midgar destroyed. How of guys think the Meteor represented Jenova's head? I think it is possible that Sephiroth stole Jenova's head and was trying to steal the Black Materia from the Temple.
Lynn - January 19, 2006 05:05 PM (GMT)
I don't think Holy wanted Midgar destroyed. It was trying to push Meteor back, but because it was released too late, their clash happened too close to the city. The ensuing energy from that clash is what destroyed Midgar.
And yes, Sephiroth stole Jenova's head during the Nibelheim fire five years before the game. He was holding onto it as he fell into the Lifestream under the Nibel Reactor. That's why when you see Jenova's body later at Shinra HQ, it doesn't have its head.
He had also been trying to steal the Black Materia before Cloud & Co. interrupted him. It's been a while, I can't remember why Sephiroth didn't solve the puzzle that turned the Temple into the Black Materia... Either he couldn't figure out how, or decided to let AVALANCHE do the work for him. *digs into her memory >_<*
Anti-R - January 19, 2006 06:24 PM (GMT)
Actually, Cloud and the others were pushing it WAY too close of defeating Sephiroth and releasing Holy.
Bugenhagen said that Holy itself is a wild card... it destroys whatever the Planet deems harmful to itself, and that includes human beings. So yes, I find myself thinking if Holy was purposely destroying Midgar in the ending as well...
As for Jenova's head, I believe it was lost in the Lifestream when Sephiroth was thrown in the mako pit with the part in Nibelheim. Other players claim it was attached on Bizaaro Sephiroth in the last battle.
Lynn - January 19, 2006 07:49 PM (GMT)
I wondered that about Holy as well, but something about the way it was described in MotP gave me the impression that Midgar's destruction was just the result of the energy its clash with Meteor was giving off.
I like the idea of Holy trying to destroy Midgar better, though. It lines up with how the WEAPONs kept attacking places of high Lifestream concentration despite the humans living there. That in the end, the Planet works to preserve itself, not humanity.
Kuki Prower - January 19, 2006 09:52 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Lynn @ Jan 19 2006, 05:05 PM) |
| Either he couldn't figure out how, or decided to let AVALANCHE do the work for him. *digs into her memory >_<* |
I believe it was AVALANCE, because you needed to complete the puzzles in the Temple and it would shrink because the temple itself was the Mataria, but the people inside would get killed by it getting smaller, hence why Cait Sith did it.
| QUOTE (Lynn) |
| I like the idea of Holy trying to destroy Midgar better, though. It lines up with how the WEAPONs kept attacking places of high Lifestream concentration despite the humans living there. That in the end, the Planet works to preserve itself, not humanity. |
Also because Midgar was sucking up the Lifestream there as Mako Energy. That makes sense if Holy was ridding the planet of all that wasn't clean.
MistaCloudStrife - January 19, 2006 10:58 PM (GMT)
Alright... Here's the most important quote to this.
"Red XIII: It's too late for Holy. Meteor is approaching the Planet. Holy is
having the opposite effect. Forget Midgar, we've gotta worry about the Planet!"
From reading this you can get a couple different opinioins on it.
Red says, "Holy is having the opposite effect."... You can interpret this like he's saying, Holy is destroying Midgar because it found Midgar as a greater threat than Meteor.
BUT he says, "Forget about Midgar, we've gotta worry about the planet!." Why would they "worry about the planet" if holy is protecting the planet? It contradicts the opinion I stated above.
The other thing it could be is that Holy and Meteor clashed to close to the planet and Holy ended up causing more harm than good.
I would actually like to believe the first opinion, but right now the latter one seems the most likely one.
And about the black materia. Lynn got alot of the stuff right. The Black materia would just be the Temple of the Ancients. Remember Jenova's head was found in the Northern Cave in AC. That means it was there. It couldn't have been Meteor unless head head was flung all the way into the northern cave after the explosion. Highly doubt that though.
And as for why Sephiroth didn't solve the puzzle himself and let Cloud and the others get it. Rememeber that wasn't the real Sephiroth. Sephiroth was on top of the northern save the entire time being re-created(Similar to how the WEAPONs were being created.) The entire time he was just playing around with Cloud's mind and when the time was right he took over and made Cloud give him the black materia.
Kuki Prower - January 20, 2006 03:40 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (MistaCloudStrife @ Jan 19 2006, 10:58 PM) |
| And as for why Sephiroth didn't solve the puzzle himself and let Cloud and the others get it. Rememeber that wasn't the real Sephiroth. Sephiroth was on top of the northern save the entire time being re-created(Similar to how the WEAPONs were being created.) The entire time he was just playing around with Cloud's mind and when the time was right he took over and made Cloud give him the black materia. |
It was about playing with Cloud's mind becaue he thought this was the REAL Sephiroth that they were chasing after. It played into Sephiroth's plan as he was able to control this puppet clone of himself and the others in the Black Capes. Hence the reason why he revieled the clone when he attacks Cloud and the others at the Northern Crater EG. Jenova Death.
Because Cloud would then bring him the Black Materia as he was still wishing for the truth. But he needed to come back and trick whoever Cloud gave the Black Materia to, betcha that clone was asking for overtime! :lmao:
Sternenstaub - January 20, 2006 08:40 PM (GMT)
Oh, an ending discussion... :woot:
I've had quite a few of these and since I don't think that I can say it any better than that, I will just quote a text I posted about this some time ago:
| QUOTE |
Well Bugenhagen said: "I wonder which we humans are." He didn't say that humans ARE bad for the planet, so it's not a fact that Holy was even supposed to destroy humanity. Think about it: Were humans really bad for the planet? I mean, in reality they certainly are, we all know that. I think that is why everyone is so eager to believe that Holy wanted to kill humans. But in the games I played Square usually had a rather positive view of humans, at least in the Final Fantasy games- there may be exceptions, I know. Think of FFX where the whole thing of humanity having to atone for its sins is one big lie or FFVI which said "no matter what happens we wish to live" or Xenogears "I'm proud to be human". You may state that FFVII is so good because it is different than all of these but given these examples I really can't think of an ending where the whole of humanity simply dies.
So I ask again: "Are humans really bad for the planet?" Not in reality but in the game.
Well, we have Shinra of course and they ARE bad for the planet. But Shinra is destroyed before the ending so there is no need to kill all the others. We have the people in Junon who are against all the polution and hate Shinra for it. We have the people in Cosmo Canyon who study "planet-live". We have the people from Fort Condor who risked their lives for a condor and nothing else.
One more example is Bugenhagen himself: He studies "planet-live", he can hear the cries of the planet and seems to live rather close to nature. However when you take him with you to the city of the ancients he says that he loves the smell of maschines as well as the smell of nature. Vincent tells you that Gast send a lot of technical equipment to Cosmo Canyon as a gift for Bugenhagen. He uses this equipment to study the planet. So technic and nature do not oppose each other in FFVII. Even the rocket was used to save the planet and Cid said that he is glad to use it in such a way.
I don't think at all that humans in general are bad for the planet! Humans are natural, they are a product of the planet.
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| QUOTE |
Holy was summoned by Aeris. It couldn't work because Sephiroth blocked it. That's why Cloud is going into the crater and when he kills Sephy Holy is free to save the worls- or at least to try.
I don't think that it was Holys "intention" to kill the humans. Bugenhagen said it COULD hit us too, true but FFVII realy doesn't have such a negative view of humans exept for Shinra which is already pretty much destroyed when Holy is activated. So why would Holy try to kill the humans? Right, it wouldn't.
What Red XIII was saying is: "Meteor is approaching the planet. Holy is having the opposite effect." Holy is having the opposite effect THAN Meteor, which is approaching the planet. It's trying to keep (maybe even push) it away. Red says "It's too late for Holy". Meteor is already too close to the planet, hence putting it in danger. I wouldn't want two forces like that fighting next to me. You can see the debris fly in Midgar because Meteor is still approaching and Holy is trying to push it away. I suppose that aren't nice forces to be trapped between.
So that's why the lifestream came helping. And in the very end you see Midgar destroyed: the only bad think that ever arouse from humanities deeds (-if that). So why would it be neccesary to kill the entire human race? Humans are natural after all and we meet a lot of nature friendly people on the way: for example Priscilla and the other people in Junon or the ones in Cosmo Canyon...
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Just an unproven opinion I stubbornly defend...