Cleris people find it easy to associate Cloud's depression with the loss of Aerith, but CloudxTifa supporters are trying to say that Cloud's depressed because of Geostigma. Cloti's are also saying that the only thing bothering Cloud about Aerith is his guilt, rather than grief.

We can rule out Geostigma as the cause of Cloud's depression because his depression started to lift *before* his Geostigma was cured. In Advent Children, Cloud came back to Midgar after speaking to Aerith near the Forgotten City. He told Tifa that he "felt lighter" after speaking to Aerith, but he still had Geostigma. Cloud had no idea that his Geostigma could be cured at that point, yet he felt better after speaking with Aerith. If Cloud felt better after speaking with Aerith, then his depression had something to do with Aerith rather than Geostigma.

Now, the Cloti's will probably say that he only felt better after talking to Aerith because Aerith told him that he wasn't to blame for her death, which lifted his guilt. How do we prove that it's more than guilt?

I think we can say it's more than guilt because Cloud told Tifa in Case of Tifa that his main problem is the "inability to retrieve lost lives". If the "inability to retrieve lost lives" is the main thing bothering Cloud, then the main thing bothering him is NOT his guilt. The main thing bothering him is the inability to bring Aerith back.

I think that's how we can show that Cloud's depression isn't due to Geostigma or guilt. His depression is really due to the loss of Aerith.

Hmm I don't know if we could separate so clearly Cloud's guilt from not being able to save her, and depression due to the pain of losing Aerith. Seems to me Cloud is one big emotional mess :P

However, one thing remained startling clear. His guilt and depression, could not be lift by any breathing friends, or "family" that are always there with him. It was something personal, something Cleris. Only the flowergirl has that power over Cloud's mind. She has that power to turn his guilt into strength, his depression into hope. I think this in itself tells us the status difference between Aerith and Tifa, in Cloud's heart...Do I make sense? O.o lol


Wait, what am I doing here sprouting all these rubbish...need to study :cray:

I agree that Cloud's a big emotional mess over the loss of Aerith and that guilt is part of it. However, the Cloti's are trying to claim that Cloud's feeling ONLY guilt. Since Cloud makes that statement in Case of Tifa about the "inability to retrieve lost lives" being his main problem, I think that shows that the loss of Aerith is indeed part of his depression, and not just guilt.

I also agree that Cloud's depression starting to lift after speaking with Aerith shows that only Aerith has the ability to to turn his guilt into strength, and his depression into hope. Tifa had clearly been unable to do that, since Cloud fell deeper and deeper into depression while living at the Seventh Heaven.

I think it's remarkable, too, that Cloud only admitted his need for forgiveness to Aerith. That shows a bond of trust between Cloud and Aerith. Why hadn't Cloud been able to talk about that with Tifa?

It seems to me that Cloud keeps a lot about Aerith from Tifa. In Case of Tifa, Cloud didn't tell Tifa about going to Aerith's Church. He didn't tell Tifa about delivering a bouquet to Aerith's grave for Elmyra. He refused to drink and talk with Tifa about his feelings after delivering the bouquet to Aerith's grave. Tifa also had to pry it out of Cloud that he felt Aerith brought Denzel to him. It seems to me that Cloud keeps a lot about Aerith from Tifa.

I think I mentioned the same exact things to a stubborn Cloti, Aly-san. ^_^ So hence I 100% agree.

The thing is, Cloud doesn't feel comfortable sharing things with Tifa. Let's face it Clotis, he doesn't really trust her. :rolleyes: Personally I think Tifa will make any of his shared feelings into a more complicated conversation that Cloud is not willing to go further into. Cloud and Aeris both understand eachother, as shown in both FFVII and AC. Aeris shares the same problems and always tries to help, which always cheers Cloud up. Although Tifa tries to help him, along with the other members of his party, they just don't understand him. Only Aeris has the ability to give him more strength and hope. Their bond is so thick that even in death Cloud still trusts her. Clotis just DENY it. -_-

I remember a Cloti came across my path once. She was like, "Just one day, ONE day, Cloud will trust Tifa and tell her all his dirty little secrets. That's gonna be SOO KYOOOOT!" :lol: Sorry dear, but if you consider Cloud and Tifa as cute if they start sharing some secrets, then you oughta have a look on Cloud and Aeris. :rolleyes: Plus if ONE DAY Cloud starts to share his secrets to Tifa, might as well share them with all his family. It wouldn't really make a difference. -_- And, do Cloud and Tifa share any hints of that? Even for trying that out in the future? NO. C'mon, let's get out of the Imagination Workshop now!

Guilt is definitely a part of it, as shown by the back-to-back flowerfield scene. However, he lived in the Church when he found out that he had a terminal illness, right? I don't think anyone would leave his 'family' out of sore guilt. I think he moved into the Church because he wanted to be close to Aerith in what could be his last days. I don't see how guilt plays a part in that. He just wants to feel her presence...because she's the one who gives him strength and just because he misses her(hence, his depression is also about her loss)

I posted this in another thread but I think it works here too.

Well, its not that I don't see Cloud as not wanting her forgiveness, he's pretty much made that clear, just that its pretty misunderstanding to define Cloud and Aeris relationship based completley on guilt. It's so much more deeper then that.

I hope that kind of helps the argument. :)

You can say, as well, that there are other people that he could have saved, such as Zack, Jesse, Biggs, Wedge, and mostly, his own mother. But it seems that Aerith's death, just tops the others for Cloud's statements as: "But, we let her die", or something like that.

Also, if he just wanted forgivness: Why would he only want Aerith to forgive him? I mean, as I've already said, there's other people (specially Zack and his mother), that he might have wanted to save, but couldn't, and he might have wanted their forgivness as well, but just with Aerith's forgiveness, his guilt was washed off, as if the forgivness of the others wouldn't matter anymore. Why?

Besides, Cloud's grief towards Aerith, was clearly stated by Aerith and Tifa, in their respective stories. So saying otherwise, is just being pointless, and close-minded.

Then there's that quote "meeting her again...that is my dream" that came out before the movie did. But I couldn't find it in the movie

When I asked one Cloti the same question, he said that Cloud had moved into the Church because he needed Aerith's forgiveness. Cloud felt he could find forgiveness more easily/quickly/whatever in the Church. >_<

Of course, that leads to the question of why forgiveness was more important to Cloud than his family. :lmao:

No, it wasn't in the movie. It was just used as a caption in one of the Japanese magazines. :sad:

Good point. He didn't want forgiveness from anyone but Aerith, yet she wasn't the only one he was unable to save.

Another good point. Aerith was shown to be important to him, not her forgiveness.

Hmm....I don't see why CloTis are still trying to force something impossible, but here's my opinion...At the flowerfield scene, we see Cloud's eyes soften and maybe his heart also soften, :P , then again, some CloTis says that he's jus like that because he wanted to remove his guilt by Aerith's forgiveness.

I deny it's true...Cloud said in AC that there was no cure for Geostigma...well, too bad there is, the fact is maybe, he wanted the Geostigma to live on his arm until he dies... :yawn: Okay, maybe not, but Cloud IS and STILL depressed the loss of Aerith...he lives at Aerith's Church, well who in the right mind to live on a dirty, filty, old church? :cloud:

It reveals. CloTis says that Cloud just lives at the Church because he wanted to be close to Aerith so he can be forgiven and when he did, cloud runs to Tifa and live happily ever after blah blah blah! :mad:

For me, if I loss the guy I loved, of course I would be depressed, but surely in two years I would finally get over his death....but Cloud's case was too different.
I think there's a lot of time to ask for forgiveness, and reduce his guilt and depression. Yes he IS and STILL depressed.

And I also rewatched the movie, his expression is always gloomy, but then again, when and after interacting with Aerith, he becames stronger and encouraged, don't yah think?

I think no one can retrieve lost lives, it is dead. But in his case, he tried and seeks a way.

this clearly states that Cloud never showed this kind of grief, the grief for Aerith towards Zack, his mother etc....when the exact time they died, but we see when Aerith dies, it feels like all of the problems from the world gave to you.



Ah who cares! I believe on what i believe in! those CloTis who're still supporting that, you're all making fools of yourselves. Everything from AC clearly states Aerith is the most precious and yet most important in his life. (Scene: Sephiroth and Cloud in the duel, Sephiroth stabbed Cloud with his sword and asks what's important then Cloud's mind shows three images of Aerith! :fangirl: )

There should be no reason for us, Cleriths defend from CloTis. They need to face the truth.

Wasn't there a quote that was left out where Tifa says, "You just want to let yourself die? You think you can meet her like this, don't you?" something like that...

Wouldn't that show that Cloud's depression was as a matter of fact, due to the loss of Aerith?

One thing to make note of.

During Case of Tifa, why was Cloud still visiting the church without Tifa's knowledge? Why was Cloud so sunken and depressed after Aeris death THROUGHOUT the game and Case of Tifa? Why did Cloud RETURN TO LIVE at the church AFTER Case of Tifa even when he reluctantly agreed to take her with him next time he went there?

Guilt or Comfort? You decide.

That line was reported by Danielle after he saw the first showing of the 30 minute trailer at the Venice Film Festival last year. However, that line wasn't reported at any other film festival, and it wasn't in the movie. :sad:

Throughout Case of Tifa, Cloud was very reluctant to talk to Tifa about anything having to do with Aerith. He didn't tell her about Elmyra asking him to take a bouquet to Aerith's grave, and he refused to talk with Tifa about it when he got back. He didn't tell Tifa about going to Aerith's church. When Cloud first referred to Aerith's Church as "my place", he didn't explain what he meant. He didn't tell Tifa that he thought Aerith brought Denzel to him until Tifa pressed him for the information later. Cloud seemed very reluctant to tell Tifa about anything having to do with Aerith.

Some Cloti's say that Cloud went to the Church because he was looking for forgiveness. They feel he will find it more easily and/or quickly in the Church or whatever. It doesn't make sense to me that Cloud goes to the Church because of guilt, however. Wouldn't that just make him feel more guilty? :unsure:

Cloud's reference to the Church as "my place" makes the Church sound like it's where Cloud wants to be, a place where he feels safe, and a place where he feels at home. That makes it a place of comfort, rather than a place where he's been driven by guilt.

The Church is that same place where Cloud and Aeris first met, so technically Cloud should feel sad and painful everytime he visits the place, just like the lake, just like forgiveness and just like letting her die. Going to the Church shouldn't be any different, going to the Church should bring an even more pain than all that I have listed for many reasons. But he continues to go there, and sleeps there, and he feels comfortable. Maybe it was that time when things started to be good, like one of the good memories, so he's been connected in this location known as the Church.

If it was guilt, anything associated with Aerith, Cloud should not enter if it was guilt. If it was guilt he would look at the Church in pain and never had called it "my place" if it was only guilt. Right? But he does, and seems to be associated with it a lot.

Because when you're guilty you have trouble entering places that reminds you of something you've done, that you don't want to look at it if it reminds you, which only makes the pain worse.

Asking forgiveness, going in the lake, letting her die, and touching the riboon all hurt Cloud, shouldn't the Church too?

Funny though, Cloud didn't kill Aerith. lol Blah...I just wanted to let out my thoughts. XD

But the church is a place that Cloud feels guilt. We were given proof of that in the film. The wolf represents Clouds' guilt right? We see the wolf when Cloud is at Zacks grave, at he lake where Aerith rests, and in the church after Cloud finds Tifa and passes out.

Then the question remains, why go there if all you feel is pain? Maybe the good memories outweigh the bad? Bleh, I'm just going to end up going in circles anyone have any suggestions? :wacko:

I thought the wolf showed up in the church because Cloud was too late to help Tifa when Loz attacked. :unsure:

I see no reason for Cloud to feel any guilt in the church. There were no painful memories there for him, in contrary, it is a place full of good ones. The place where he first meets Aerith, who has such a zest for life, their hilarious escape from the Turks, Cloud's only in-game laugh, etc. etc.

The Forgotten Capital is a place that can be associated with a lot of pain and guilt, because that is where Cloud almost kills her and where he lays her to rest. Zack's grave is where he watched Zack die. But the church has no painful memories, only joyful ones. Cloud never let Aerith get hurt in her church, there's no need for him to think it's a painful place.

I think it's a place where Cloud can feel closer to her, perhaps he can feel her presence there in some way, peaceful and serene, with the flowers she loves so much. Maybe there he feels closer to her and can relive the good memories they once had. I doubt Aerith would let her church be a sorrowful and painful place for the man she loves.

You're right that he feels guilt in the Church as represented by the wolf, but that can't be all that he feels when he's calling the Church "my place". :hmm: You refer to your home as "my place". I don't think you'd call a self-imposed torture chamber your home unless you enjoy pain. :lmao:

Unless... Cloud feels that he deserves to be "punished" for his "sin", so he makes himself feel better by hurting himself? :unsure:

However, I doubt that Cloud would feel Aerith's presence and call her "mother" if he didn't feel safe in her presence, and we know her presence is in the Church since her presence was seen after Cloud and Tifa passed out.

Aha... remember this from MotP?

Dyne's guilt started to fade away once Aerith touched his arm. Could Aerith's presence in the Church alleviate Cloud's guilt, which is comforting to him? :unsure:

EDIT: You posted while I was posting, yin-chan. I like your ideas!

:lmao: heh, good point

kind of like when Cloud felt beter after Aerith touches his forehead in AC, and when he sees her at the end of the movie.

well I think clous depression is caused by aerith's death, who wouldnt i cried so much when aerith died in da game, I got the magazine that has a picture of aerith in her last moments and when she dies...:( :sad:

I like your points, Yin, but I didn't associate it with Tifa at all. Maybe, it's just me though.

I think it definitely has something to do with Aerith, because the wolf will appear any place associated with either Zack or her. I don't think the wolf can be a reference to Tifa, only because it represents a heavy burden/guilt. Not once, afterward, does Cloud mention his guilt of not being able to be there for Tifa. Not only that, but the most important clue is that when the wolf appears during that scene, we feel the presence of the flower girl...and the "Water" theme song plays. However, I think it's even more beautiful that Cloud still chooses to live in the Church just to be closer to her even when, at the same time, he's probably feeling the guilt. I do agree, though, that being there makes him feel closer to her and that happy memories were created there. I don't think Cloud can completely escape from his guilt, no matter where he goes...but being closer to her spirit and being at the place where those happy memories also exist probably lessens his burden...

You could say Aerith's strong presence and the happy memories created there help to "balance out" the sad ones...something like that...and it's probably why Cloud stays there. :cloud:

:lol: You're right, I never thought of that. He didn't say anything about his guilt for not being there to help Tifa, but when the wolf appears in the church, it appears to be looking at Tifa and him lying on the ground....which is why I sort of thought it as a reference to Tifa. I guess Cloud could fear losing Tifa the same way he lost Aerith, after all, she is in some way important to him. Perhaps his "I don't think I can save anyone...not family nor friends." line can also be in reference to him thinking he's not able to save Tifa, as she can be counted as 'family' after all? :unsure: He also looked guiltily over at her after he wakes up in the bedroom. :unsure:

Mm....I really don't think Cloud will feel any immense amount of guilt in the church. I should get the impression that it's more a peaceful place to him compared to any other.

...but I completely agree with you there. :lol:

"Not only that, but the most important clue is that when the wolf appears during that scene, we feel the presence of the flower girl...and the "water theme" plays."

The thing is...the wolf doesn't represent just any guilt...it's a specific guilt/burden he's carrying.

I'm not so sure about the 'guilt' look. I thought he looked over at her just because he'd just gotten up and wanted to make sure she was okay as well. I think that if it was guilt, he would have jumped into helping Tifa as soon as she mentioned the children needed saving. It ony makes sense that IF he feels guilty about having let her down at the Church, he would have wanted to make up for it...but he still acted like he didn't really care. Why would he want to let her down again IF the wolf (representing heavy guilt) had appeared earlier because he feels he'd let Tifa down?

I'm not sure if what I'm saying makes sense. Oh well... :lol:

That's a very good point, HD. And IF Cloud felt guilt because he let Tifa down, why didn't the wolf show in the room after they got rescued?

I still think the answer to why he goes to the Church is in MotP. In this passage, Dyne's guilt starts to recede after Aerith touches his arm:

I also think that Cloud's guilt started to fade away after Aerith touched Cloud's arm in the flower field, which is why he was able to see her face in the Bahamut hand reach scene.

We know that Aerith's presence was in the Church, because we could see the light representing Aerith in the Church after Cloud and Tifa passed out. Since Aerith's presence was in the Church, I think that Cloud found Aerith's presence "comforting" to his soul. The guilt didn't eat at Cloud so badly when he was closer to Aerith's presence in the Church. That, combined with the happy memories, would help Cloud feel better when he was near Aerith.

I also think Cloud communicated with Aerith before AC, and that would happen most easily in the Church. I've always thought that Cloud communicated with Aerith before the flower field scene because Cloud doesn't even say hello or show any surprise at Aerith being there. No matter how Cloud feels about Aerith, he would still be surprised if it was the first time he had communicated with her in two years, but Cloud just reacted like meeting her in the flower field was an every day event.

What if Aerith suddenly showed up to Cid or Barret? They'd be like, "Holy blazing #$@%!!! Aerith!!! Where the @#%$ did you come from?!?" :lmao: Why didn't Cloud show any surprise at all? I think it's coz he's used to it.

Well, guilt wasn't Cloud's only problem, depression and low self-esteem were other heavy factors in his state of mind. Therefore, the fact that he couldn't help Tifa, and that Marlene got kidnapped because he wasn't there to help, not only made him feel more guilt, but it lowerd his esteem as well, ergo he might have felt as a failure even more, and probably a threat for the ones he cared, so he tried to avoid being with them, in a way to protect them, and unconciously, to protect himself from feeling more like a loser.

Also (this comes from me, this is pure POV) each time he failed someone, he might have asociated that failure, with how he failed Aerith, so one way or another, Aerith was always there as a guilt, depression and low self-esteem factor. Therefore, that would be why, with just her forgiveness and support, his guilt, depression and low self-esteem faded away, just like that.

Clerith-Son:

True, guilt isn't Cloud's only problem...but I think we were talking specifically about the symbolism behind the wolf and what it means to Cloud. We know that Cloud, Tifa, and Barret each carry a specific burden. To each of them, the wolf symbolizes a specific guilt. I was just saying that I believe the appearance of the wolf in the church to also be associated with Aerith (just as it is a reference to her in the other scenes), and not Tifa. I understand some people think it may have been to portray Cloud's guilt over not having been able to save Tifa. However, as I was saying, with the appearance of the wolf, we (again) feel the presence of Aerith.

I see what you're trying to say, I think. For some odd reason though, it just doesn't make much sense to me. Cloud can end his guilt for having failed Tifa by choosing to make up for it, but instead, he chooses to push her away. That's like saying that he's feeling guilty over her, yet he doesn't want to end this guilt when he can... :unsure:

That reminds me of Clotis claiming that the sole reasoning behind Cloud's depression = Cloud being afraid he won't be able to save Tifa and friends. That's like saying he's afraid he may die from Geostigma and won't be able to save them, yet at the same time, he's choosing to push them away from him. Doesn't make much sense to me either.

With Aerith, it's a whole different story though. He doesn't have a choice...therefore, his depression over her makes perfect sense. As he said, lost lives can't be retrieved. He wants to end the guilt, but can't because Aerith can't be brought back.

Oh, and Aly...I agree with your reasoning behind why Cloud stays at the Church. MoTP answers many many questions. We were just discussing whether the wolf's appearance during the church scene is more likely to symbolize guilt over Aerith or guilt over Tifa.

I agree, HD. It makes sense that Cloud feels guilty over not being able to save Tifa, but I think the wolf represents guilt that cannot be changed. Cloud can never make up for letting Aerith die. As Cloud said in CoT, "lost lives can't be retrieved". No matter what Cloud does, he can't retrieve Aerith or Zack. From Cloud's POV, both Aerith and Zack are gone because of him, and he can never change that or make up for it in any way. He can make up for it with Tifa.

Also, if the wolf represented Cloud's guilt about Tifa, then I think the wolf would be seen near Tifa on other occasions, too... not just in the Church scene.

Are they still saying that, or were they only saying that before we found out that the wolf symbolizes Cloud's guilt? If Cloud's depression were due to Cloud being afraid that he can't save Tifa and friends, then we should have seen the wolf hanging around Seventh Heaven.

Okay... :huggle: I'm afraid the Cloti's will twist that argument into meaning that Cloud goes to the Church only because it alleviates his guilt to be near Aerith's presence. Question is, why didn't being near Tifa take precedence over Cloud's guilt if Cloud's in love with Tifa? :unsure:

And how does this quote fit into the picture? (I've forgotten which interview this quote comes from, but Pivi used it while debating with me. I had seen the quote earlier, so it's authentic, but I can't remember what it's from.)

Ah, I'm so confused now...

That's a great point.... whoa... you're right... :lol: but if you consider the fact that Cloud considers himself as being unable to save anyone.... perhaps he feels like he cannot make up for his guilt. He didn't really do anything for Aerith to relieve his guilt, she did all the work. It wouldn't be strange if he reacts the same way towards Tifa, pushing them away and refusing to help because he doesn't believe he can atone for anything? :unsure: That way it wouldn't be too unusual for the wolf in the church to be associated with Tifa at that particular moment?

Of course, in some way or other it is definitely linked to Aerith, like Clerith-son said, so perhaps he links his inability to save Tifa in the Church to his inability to save Aerith, hence the wolf? A combination of guilt for both women made it appear?

Oh so confuzzled...

Edit : Oh Aly posted same time as me. ^^;

I took that to mean that Cloud left Seventh Heaven because he was unsure of wheter he would be able to protect those precious to him (his family/friends). If he was going to die, it would mean he would no longer be able to protect them, and coupled with his guilt, "to protect the ones precious to him or not" he left because ... oh dear god, I'm confused.

However, CoT seems to show that he left moreso on incompatability terms rather than geostigma... :unsure: or perhaps a combination of both....perhaps he would feel guilty about moving out even though he and Tifa weren't getting along, and the Geostigma factor was the last straw that made him do it? :unsure:

Cloud, Tifa, and Barret each carry a specific burden. To each of them, the wolf symbolizes a specific guilt doesn't it? I thought CoT pretty much covered that. I'll have to go grab the quotes. Therefore, I don't think the symbolism behind the wolf changes from scene to scene. I think the idea that he can no longer save anyone, friends or family, is a result of his guilt/depression over having let Aerith die. I know Zack is a part of it too, but it seems to me like it's more focused on Aerith since it's her forgiveness he's specifically seeking. Anyway, his guilt is that he "let" Aerith die...not that he can no longer save friends or family. Am I making sense here?

Because of his guilt: he feels he let Aerith die, he now believes he can no longer save anyone, friends, or family. The guilt, itself, is the first part...not the last part.

Also, as Aly pointed out...we don't see the wolf appearing around Tifa or any of his other friends/family anywhere else. I would think the best place for it to appear (if it was meant to symbolize Cloud's guilt over Tifa) would be in the room they were both brought into afterwards. We don't see it anywhere. During the Church scene, we feel the presence of Aerith as the wolf appears. The "Promised Land" theme song plays. Therefore, I think the wolf in the church is still associated with guilt over Aerith, not Tifa.

Cloud's problem is that "Lost lives can't be retrieved". Aerith can't be brought back to life. His guilt is that he feels he let her die. I don't think Cloud can, in any way, "fix" that guilt. He can forgive himself if Aerith forgives him, of course, but there's no way he can 'make up' for it. It's precisely why he seeks her forgiveness. The situation with Tifa is different though. She's still right there. IF he is feeling guilty over her, he can still "fix" it by helping her out. That's why it makes no sense to me that he would be pushing her away if he's feeling guilty over not having been able to save her in the Church. As I mentioned, IF the wolf's appearance in the church symbolizes guilt over Tifa, then it seems to me like Cloud wants to keep this guilt. Again, he consistently tries to push her away... :/

....dear lord. You guys are awesome.

Here I am now, completely 180 degrees turned around and now utterly convinced that the wolf in the church is associated towards Aerith and not Tifa though I pretty much believed otherwise before.

Yin got nufink' more to say. :ph34r: Hades's Daughter, I must force marriage unto thee. :wub:

:law: yin-chan I'm sorrie, I know Hadeys' as attractive as we can get but she is already married to me, like 3X :shifty:

lol

STA:

:lmao:

Unfortunately, STA's right. I'm already married to her 3X. The devotion.... :wub:
...but ya know, Yin...STA and I wouldn't mind sharing our wuv with the rest
of our Cleris/Nazi ( :evil: ) family. :woot:

BTW...this is so off topic, but I must worship the person who
came up with this emoticon ------------> :badangel:

:cry: :cry: :cry:

:hyper: :hyper:

Lol, this thread is spiralling off-topic! CG will be upon us like hawks soon!! :lmao:

Erm....Cloud's depression = Loss of Aerith. So true. :angel:

HOW DARE YOU ALL. :cloud: :nono: :nono: :nono:


Cloud's real reason for being depressed is because people get off topic in his threads. :fish:

</spam>

I'm so happy this was brought up :3
I was interested in this thought too.

I must say I never really thought it was all guilt that Cloud felt in Cot,AC or anything else.
I always looked at it like He was also sad and depressed that Aerith wasn't there with him , rather then he was depressed simply because of he "failed her".
I know that Clouds guilt was a huge part of it but I just feel he was more depressed about her not being there with him .

What really made me start to think this is the quote from CoT where Cloud says
"Lost lives can't be retrieved".It seemed like her not being there was a big part of his depression too.

I totally agree with you on this.If the flower field was the first time of him meeting her he would act surprised to see her after two years.
A lil off topic but I saw no one said anything about it,and I had to say I felt the same.

Good Topic too lol

Ana of all people I still wonder why you made a thread over this...you had the answer all along. Why do you give your self more cold head-aches? This should be a cloti crying over this not you!

It's just like that "The Great Gospel" thread but 10x times as worst do you ever give that brain time to rest? :/ I'm serious...gurl, serious.

:

Yeah so It must be like their Meetings/DATES or something sooooooo Cute ^-^
Their love reminds me of jack and rose(Titanic).

Yes good topic

What about poor Zack? Doesn't Cloud get to be depressed over him too? :cry: Poor fellow.

My analysis of Cloud's depression is that it is not only the loss of Aerith, but guilt at his inability to do anything to save her or anyone else. It just seems that no matter what the poor boy does, he can never hold on to the ones he loves.

He not only lost Aerith, but he also lost his best friend, his mother, his hometown, and almost Tifa on more than one occasion. While Aerith was no doubt the only one who could put Cloud's remorse and regret at ease, I just don't think we should ignore the impact other people had on his life and base his depression solely on Aerith.

However, I think it took Aerith's death for him to finally feel that he was a nuisance. The loss of his love finally cracked any hope he had at being the hero, I guess. Imagine the self esteem issues he has.

No wonder that guy is messed up in the end. -Pats.- Poor Cloud.

And on the note of Aerith continuously visiting Cloud--I doubt she's failed to make her ephemeral, ghosty appearances since the ending of FFVII, with her hand-grabbing and such. :aeris: It definitely looks like an event he's not surprised to experience.

As always, I believe Aerith is Cloud's strength. I always hear on the debate forms how Cloud is just guilty about Aerith's death so everytime there's a scene about them, he feels more forgiven and goes more into Tifa's arms which IS NOT THE CASE.

There is a scene in FFVII before Cloud and party battles the different Sephiroths. That strength, Cloud had lost in Ac, was at this moment when he sees Holy's light. He talks about Aerith's prayers and her memories. The party with him are feeling more courageous. It was about Aerith it seems Cloud was more focused on. It's like Aerith saving the planet for Cloud and Cloud saving the planet for Aerith.

Then after defeating Sephiroth, Cloud sees Aerith's hand which saved him from a fall, and after saving Tifa, he speaks of a way to meeting Aerith.

He was optimistic at first starting a new life given the chance Aerith had saved him. Then he feels like he hasn't found a way to meeting her because he doesn't sense her anymore. Cloud becomes depressed and lost. So yes, he's sad about everything that has happened to him, but I feel Aerith is the main reason.

:cleris:

Ah, but remember that Mr. Nomura has stated that Aerith's spirit has lived on in Cloud's heart. I think he's always sensed her there for him, and I think Tifa's picked up on that (her little raindrop scene in AC).

Guilt? Yes. Remorse? Yes. I think when you love someone strongly enough, if anything hurts them you take it as a personal failure because you think you've allowed them to get hurt. So I think when people claim Cloud is guilty, his remorse of the whole situation goes hand-in-hand with that.