Firstly I'll apologise for not replying in other topics yet but I've just been bone tired from exams. I will get back to them.

However, I've been fairly isolated the last few days and amid my brain telling me that it refuses to study and more politics for my last exam I've been stuck in a situation where my mind isn't cluttered by invasions and has been able to think, somewhat, freely.

So I started thinking about God. Whether you know from the other topics on this board or not I am not so cynical to be an athiest. I may support some of their ideals at times, but in truth I am not one. There just seems to be more to life. Not in nature and many other things as people often explain (atleast not for me) but in a certain essence of human relationships. They go beyond a simple animalistic sense of interaction and become something more mystical.

It's not that I take this as proof of God or anything else, I certainly don't simply upon fact of the feeling. But I do so in the sense of the feeling. The world, my environment, just feels as though it has some other presence about it. Something that I can't rationalise but can feel. I know many of you have suggested this to me at times but please continue reading before you finish considering.

But you know I don't feel this presence or God, whatever you want to call it, in me. It feels connected through me, but seperate. I was watching Before Sunrise recently and Celine mentions at one point that if there is a God she feels that it does not exist in your mind or body nor mine. But in the space between. In the gaps between myself (however you want to define that) and everything else. I agree, but that's not really the my point. I know many people who feel completely differently. Nevi and AR have mentioned many times how they feel God and Seeker has also explained different things but I don't feel at all sympathetic with any of those descriptions. So I realised fully, people have mentioned this before, that we must all interact and exist with this other presence in different ways. I'm not trying to say we all feel this, we don't, I'm only including those who do here. I've known and partially understood this before but things feel different now.

I don't feel any connection with your Christian God, the same as I don't feel any connection with the similar God of the Jews or Allah. The same for any other God that I can think of and know of. I don't believe or feel in a God that I've been told about. Honestly, how can I? I don't feel some God that is created for me in the pages of a thousand year old text. This is not a question of the text's validity, just that I can't have faith in something that has been dictated to me.

Perhaps this is the problem so many people have with opening to feelings of spirituality. As soon as they begin to feel something of the kind they are told they feel the presence of the Christ, or something else depending on where they come from. I know this happened to me and it just wasn't and isn't right. The more I think about what that God represents the more I know it is completely seperate and wrong from whatever it is I feel in this world. That is not to say it's completely dissimilar, it's not, and perhaps that's why I've been confused with the issue for so long. But I feel I know why I've rejected this for so long. What I feel and know is so much different from what I'm told about the the Christian God and what I read in the Bible. I don't feel some overwhelming presence or love, just the other worldly qualities of love, compassion and other feelings. They just feel as something more than physical or chemical realities. My relationships with people feel almost as shadows of something else.

I refuse to listen to or believe in the words of the Bible or the Koran (I know I still can't spell it) because I reject the very point of those texts. The God behind them.

This topic really has absolutely no meaning, and is not necessarily meant for discussion though you can say what you wish. It really just represents my evening thoughts on a summer's evening.

I look forward to being in love again.

Very well said. I feel like that too.
Nietzche (I don't know if I spelled it right) once said that "God is dead". I can't help but agree with him.
I'm such a lost child. <_<'
People like to turn to a higher being than them, someone whom they could think can help them overcome any obstacle that would come their way.
But circumstances like when things go bad can really make me think if there really is a God. Sometimes I just don't feel like there is one at all, and the only one that I can really turn to is myself.
It's weird coz I came from a catholic school and now that I'm taking graduate studies, I'm still in the same catholic school and when I see nuns around, I wonder what motivates them to believe and what makes them feel that there is a God.

*sigh*

And still I go to Church in hopes that maybe somehow, I can feel that there is still a God.

*scratches head* I just re-read my post. Damn, I was in a weird mood last night.

"God is dead"

While he did say this it is not in the context that many people think it to be. He was not explicitly saying that God was dead in the sense of ideals but in the sense of his practice on Earth through the Church. Nietzsche was a great admirer of Jesus and many of the general principles of Christianity but was wholly against the Church.

So while he did say "God is dead" it is not the automatic licence to suggest a God doesn't exist as many nihilists take it for.

You know, I'm not a religious person as you may think. In truth I detest religion. And I think Raist, you may be like me, you don't want religion. You don't want to fallow something. That's how I feel I don't want to fallow something, I want to fallow someone, someone I know to exists.
There's no logical way to "prove" God. Just like there's no logical way to "prove" that love exists. All we can do is trust that it does. When I'm finished writing my book, if that ever happens I want you to read it, okay? :huggle:

There's no logical way to "prove" God. Just like there's no logical way to "prove" that love exists. All we can do is trust that it does.

1.) I disagree with the feeling rather than the words of this. Yes, we can't prove God exists, just as we can't prove He does. However I do believe we can prove certain things about Him/Her/It. These logical proofs along with my own feelings force me to believe that the God you believe does not exist. The Christian God.

2.) Nevi I understand that you don't like religion. Nor do I and I do think that is a good thing. However you are still Christian, correct? You still believe in the words of the Bible, correct? I don't and believe that they only serve to destroy what I feel. The Christian God of the Bible is not the same as whatever it is I feel. That is the difference here.

I'm leaning towards the concept of Shaw's lifeforce again, but perhaps slightly different.

I haven't read the book, but it sounds like you've been Surprised by Joy. If you haven't read it as yet, see if you can get a copy of it. C.S. Lewis wrote it.

And oh, I'm just curious: which book(s) of the Bible have you read?

God is dead because of the people.
Most people just go to church and pray to earn brownie points to heaven, it's like the true meaning of faith and God do not exist at all, so it's like they're just praying to no one at all.
Heaven, or the afterlife has no life, that's why it's called after life. So why try to earn brownie points for heaven without learning the true meaning of life itself? People waste their time in too much prayer without even thinking of the true value of their prayers. It's ... hollow.

that is so ture..people make a god up. because they cant think the fact when they die they die. go into the ground. NO heaven after like etc, nothing , u are no more, ppl cant take that that is the fact so they creat a god XD

I mean, I can write a bible, and get ppl to follow not that hard..

I mean, I can write a bible, and get ppl to follow not that hard..

Actually Rufus...it is that hard. Honestly to write anything worthy of worship or devotion and that can last as long as Christianity has is impressive. There were many, many prophets in Jerusalem at his time yet Christ excelled ahead of the rest. Not to mention being somewhat historically accurate.

I think you need to open your mind a little about God and similar such things. You don't have to believe in them, but try to empathise a little more.

Seeker

I've only read Genesis and the book following that so far :(

I just get lost reading too many other things. Which reminds me I suggest you all pick up a copy of The Order of Things by Michael Foucalt. An excellent look at language and representation of human culture.

I have heard about that book Seeker, but I can't help but feel that Lewis' writing is very sophistic. It sounds excellent as I read it and then falls to pieces when I think on it later. He's good, but I don't find him particularly convincing. I remember a woman wrote into my local paper's editorials claiming that "even C.S Lewis converted to Christianity and he was once one of the greatest champions of athiestic thought". I prompted replied that he was not at all a champion of athiestic thought and not even especially worthy of mention as an athiest, he was simply an athiest worth mentioning. I also told her she was committing the fallacy of appealing to authority. She never replied...

I still don't feel that it is the Christian God I sense Seeker, but we'll see what happens.

I've been to more churches than I can count in my life seeing as my family travels and ministers for a living. And I can vouch for what you've said. I've been if few churches where people don't act like that. To many people love the thought of God rather than God himself. We see this thing all the time. Actually, a good friend of ours was told he was full of demons because he didn't believe in the rapture any more. That's not really relevant but it's funny, knowing the guy he is.

Raist: I'm glad that you're finding something somewhat spiritual in your life, even if it isn't God. Maybe one day you'll change your mind about that though.

Rufus: I find it very rude for you to say that about the people who worship the Lord. We worship because we choose to, because we wish for something more to believe in. Not because we dont want to think that there is nothing after death. I admit that it is nice to think that we'll be in Heaven with someone who created us, who cares for us even though we've done Him wrong. I think everyone also likes to think that when we get to Heaven, we'll be able to be reunited with our loved ones once again, and that while down on Earth, we can be watched over and protected by them, too.

Tifa: I dont go to church very much. I go for holidays like Easter and Christmas, and take mom on Mother's Day. I believe that to believe I don't need to be inside a church every Sunday morning. It's nice to worship and sing with fellow Christians, but I can also do that from here at home. I pray all the time here as well, and sing to God, because a voice is something that he blessed me with. It's not right to say that people are only praying at Church for brownie points, because that might not necessarily be true at all. But I do understand where you are coming from...I dont know who said it, but I'd like to quote something.

"The greatest cause of Athiesm in the world today is Christians, who make analogies with their lips, walk out the door, and get on with their lifestyle. That is what un unbelieving world, simply finds unbelievable."

Hey people, I haven't seen you all in a while!! ^_^

I completely agree, Nevi. It does say in the Bible that you shouldn't follow Traditions, or complicated rituals or whatever. They are wrong, and shouldn't be practiced. The only thing that Gods commands that maybe taken as religion(which it isn't) is the rules of sacrifice, in the Old Testament. But we don't have to do that now, because Jesus died and was the ultimate sacrifice to save us from our sins. You just needs to ask in His name to be forgiven of your sins.

Raist, I'm glad you've been thinking about these things. ^_^ It can lead to alot fo questions, and I've even asked them myself while I was a Christian. I received Christ as my Saviour when I was young. I understood what I was doing; I'm guaranteed a place in Heaven, I just never really understood the deeper things. Though I've matured now, and especially over these last few months, I'm beginning understand alot more about God's plan for me and the universe that He created. Prayer also helps-- alot. :)

I see alot of C.S Lewis in this conversation. ^_^

You're quite right. But I think also it counts for the fact that if you want something to be true, and deny everything else, it's easier to believe what you want. C.S. Lewis himself put across that example in The Magician's Nephew, the first book in the Chronicles of Narnia series.

"Bring out the creature," said Aslan. One of the Elephants lifted Uncle Andrew up in it's trunk and laid him at the Lion's feet. He was too frightened to move.
"Please Aslan," said Polly, "could you say something to -- to unfrighten him?"........

......."He thinks great folly, child," said Aslan. "This world is bursting with life for these few days because the song with which I called it into life still hangs in tha air and rumbles in the ground. It will not be for so long. But I cannot tell that to this old sinner, and I cannot comfort him either; he made himself unable to hear my voice. If I spoke to him, he would only hear growlings and roarings. Oh Adam's sons, how cleverly you defend yourselves against all that might do you good!..."

Uncle Andrew refused to believe what was happening, though it was right in front of his eyes. -_- So he blocked it out; he wanted to keep himself inside his safety net, where no harm could come to him.

That's why I believe everything that the Bible says, and I refuse to block it. Because it could be the worst thing I could ever do.

But that means you'd have to get people to worship you, because you wrote that Bible. God wrote the Bible through people, are you on that spiritual level?

How do you know? Many of my prayers have been anwered; sometimes with a yes; sometimes no. .The only way you can earn your way to Heaven is not by what we can do...

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:...For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God..." ---John 3:10,23

...but by what Jesus did for us.

"Jesus saith unto him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.'" ---John 14:6

He died, and made himself a sacrifice for us, so we have a assurance of going to Heaven.

That's very true, sadly. There are those who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. It's called being a hypocrite. Jesus hates hypocrisy. We must abstain from all appearances of evil.


I go to Chruch myself. But that is so I can spiritually grow in the Lord, and I can be taught and brought up the right way in Christ. Churches are not all about pews and gargoyles and stained glass windows; it doesn't have to look magnificent; it just has to be a House of God, that has loving Christian people inside it.

Your right, sometimes i don't feel that prescence that people say is god.
But, as i'm getting older and wiser, i could sometimes feel this sensation in my heart, that just made me think and feel happy about god.