Well, I SAW IT! But I don't think that contributes anything to the Cloud x Tifa love :P

This is an article by Aly~~! Our dear Anastar! :) from Destiny Fulfilled

It's pretty big, but heh!

The Lifestream Event is a complex and tangled web woven into the story of Final Fantasy VII. Many people have the misconception that Cloud finds his “true self” and “rediscovers his love for Tifa” in the Lifestream event, which is far from what actually happens. There are only two things within the Lifestream Event that Cloud rediscovers, which are his true role in the Nibelheim incident and the fact that he was never in SOLDIER. During the rest of the event, it is actually Cloud who is revealing things to Tifa.

It must be remembered that the whole reason Cloud becomes confused over his identity in the first place is that Sephiroth tells Cloud in the Northern Crater that he is one of Hojo’s failed experiments, and that Hojo confirms this to Cloud at the Reunion. Sephiroth informs Cloud that he didn’t grow up in Nibelheim, and that he is nothing more than a failed experiment constructed by Hojo after the Nibelheim incident.

Sephiroth "I want to take you back to your real self."
Sephiroth "The one who gave me the Black Materia that day..."
Sephiroth "Who would have ever thought a failed experiment would prove so useful?"
Sephiroth “Hojo would die if he knew”
Cloud "Hojo!? What does he have to do with me!?"
Sephiroth "Five years ago you were ...constructed by Hojo, piece by piece, right after Nibelheim was burnt.”
Sephiroth “A puppet made up of vibrant Jenova cells, her knowledge, and the power of Mako.”
Sephiroth “An incomplete Sephiroth-clone. Not even given a number ...That is your reality."

Sephiroth shows Cloud the picture taken by a man in Nibelheim before they left for Mt. Nibel, and Zack is in the picture instead of Cloud. It is at this point that Cloud begins to doubt himself and becomes confused over whether or not he is truly the Cloud who grew up in Nibelheim.

Therefore, what is meant by Cloud finding his “true self” during the Lifestream Event is finding whether he is truly Cloud of Nibelheim or whether he is one of Hojo’s failed experiments. It has nothing do to with Cloud’s personality, nor does it have anything to do with what is called the “Zack persona”.

Some people argue that Cloud becomes more personable and friendly to the others after the Lifestream Event, whereas this change in behavior actually happens even before the death of Aerith. Look at the following examples from Disk One, which is long before the Lifestream Event:

In the Corel Prison:
Barret "...wouldn't bet on it. I gotta 'pologize to Dyne before I can rest in peace. An' that's why, I gotta go alone."
Cloud "Do whatever you want... Is that what you want to hear?
Cloud “Well, I can't let you do it. Because, if you die on me, I'm gonna have nightmares.”

In Cosmo Canyon:
Aerith "I'm... alone..... I'm all alone now..."
Cloud "But I'm..... we're here for you, right?"
Aerith "I know. I know, but... I am the only.... Cetra."
Cloud "Does that mean we can't help?"

In Rocket Town:
Cid "^%$#! Shera. What are you, blind!? We got guests!! GET SOME TEA! ^%$#!"
Shera "I... I'm sorry."
(She hurries to the stove.)
Cloud "Really, don't mind us."

Cid "Shera! I'll be in the backyard tunin' up Tiny Bronco! An' make sure to serve them some tea! All right!?"
(He leaves out back.)
Aerith "Sheesh...!! What bad manners!"
Cloud "Sorry. It's our fault."

Therefore, the “true self” which Cloud finds in the Lifestream Event refers only to establishing that he is actually Cloud of Nibelheim, that he was never a member of SOLDIER, and his true role in the events of Nibelheim five years ago. It has nothing to do with a change in his personality or with losing the “Zack persona”.

In the first stage of the Lifestream Event, Tifa reveals to Cloud that he wasn’t the member of SOLDIER who accompanied Sephiroth to Nibelheim five years ago. Tifa approaches the Cloud double sitting at the gates of Nibelheim. As they enter the gates, Tifa asks Cloud to tell her again what happened. As Cloud talks about entering Nibelheim with Sephiroth, Tifa reveals the truth to him:

Tifa "Five years ago... two men from SOLDIER came..."
Tifa "Sephiroth and... a young and vibrant soldier."
Tifa "Can you tell me again what happened?"
(Cloud blinks out of existence, then reappears, as the movie of his memories plays out.)
……
(She turns to watch the Cloud of five years ago enter with two other soldiers.)
Tifa "No, Cloud."
Tifa "I've been hiding it for some time, afraid that if I told you... something terrible might happen.”
Tifa “But, I'm not going to hide anything anymore."
(With a white flash, Sephiroth, the guards, and the past Cloud disappear.)
Tifa "You weren't here. Cloud did not come to Nibelheim five years ago."

The vision of Nibelheim vanishes as Cloud comes to the realization that he wasn’t actually the member of SOLDIER who came with Sephiroth five years ago. Along with this realization, Cloud begins to doubt his other childhood memories as well:

(Tifa speaks to another replica of Cloud seated by the well in Nibelheim, who speaks to her.)
"That starry night at the well... And our promise that night... What if the memory was just a lie?"

This leads to the second stage of the event, where Tifa asks Cloud to remember the Promise again. As he recalls the night they met at the well, Tifa verifies that she remembers it the same way. However, this isn’t enough to convince Cloud that he truly grew up in Nibelheim.

Tifa realizes that it doesn’t convince him because Cloud has to recall something independently of her help. If Cloud can recall something from childhood on his own, and she is able to verify that it actually happened, then it will prove that he really spent his childhood in Nibelheim:

Tifa "I say something and you don't remember it...”
Tifa “But you say something, and I remember it, too... Then we'll know that's our memory..."
Tifa "Talk to me. About anything, some important memory to you..."

Notice that Tifa has specifically asked him to recall something independently of her help. Therefore, what he recalls is not a “rediscovery” of anything for Cloud. This is something from Cloud’s own memory, something he has never forgotten, and it involves his past feelings for her:

Tifa "Talk to me. About anything, some important memory to you..."
Tifa "Now that you mention it, why did you want to join SOLDIER in the first place? I always thought it was a sudden decision you made..."
(Suddenly, the transparent Cloud high above speaks. Tifa doesn't hear.)
"...I was devastated. ...I wanted to be noticed."
(The Cloud of the well echoes these same words.)
"...I was devastated. ...I wanted to be noticed."
(The next words come only from the Cloud of the well.)
"I thought if I got stronger I could get someone to notice..."
Tifa "Someone has to notice you...? ...who?"
(The Cloud above speaks again.)
"Who...? ...You know who! ...You, that's who."
(The Cloud of the well speaks differently.) "You..."
Tifa "...Me? Why!?"
Young Cloud "Tifa... did you forget... about those days?"
Tifa "Look... I..."
Tifa "I'm sorry... But what are you talking about?"

Cloud remembers his past feelings for Tifa independently of her help. How can this be a “rediscovery of his past feelings for Tifa” when he remembers them independently of her help? This passage demonstrates that Cloud has actually never forgotten his past feelings for Tifa. It is not a “rediscovery of Cloud’s feelings”, since he has never forgotten those feelings in the first place. As the player continues, however, it is revealed that the memory of his past feelings for her are coupled with shame, embarrassment, guilt, remorse, and rejection.

It should also be noted that this same passage is a statement of Cloud’s *past* feelings for Tifa rather than of his *current* feelings for her, and it is important to distinguish between the two. Until there is evidence of Cloud’s current feelings for Tifa, one can not jump to the conclusion that he still feels the same way. Cloud was 14 when he left Nibelheim, and he’s now 21 years old, which means that seven years have passed. A great deal can happen in seven years, including getting over a crush.

This leads to the third stage of the Lifestream Event, where Tifa asks Cloud to tell her about an important memory that has to do with her. If Cloud is able to recall something from his own memory that she can verify, then it will indicate that he was actually born in Nibelheim rather than being a failed experiment of Hojo’s. The memory that Cloud recalls is quite detailed, and it reveals several painful memories involving his childhood with Tifa.

This important memory starts when Cloud recalls a memory of rejection by Tifa’s friends, rather than of his past feelings for her. Cloud remembers thinking that her group of friends "were all childish, laughing at every little stupid thing." Even though Cloud realizes that this wasn’t fair as an adult, it was the way he actually felt as a child while growing up with Tifa. Cloud had always wanted to play with her friends, but he was never allowed into the group. Tifa confirms that this was true, and in the process we learn that Cloud and Tifa hardly knew one another as children.

Tifa "My room?"
Young Cloud "It was my first time there."
Tifa "Was... it?"
Young Cloud "I only used to look up at it from outside."
Tifa "Was that the first day you came into my room?"
Tifa "...that's right. We lived next to each other. But I really didn't know you that well."

Tifa "I've known you since we were children and I always thought we were close..."
Tifa "Now that you mention it... I don't recall you ever being in my room..."
Young Cloud "Tifa always used to be with this three-some."
Tifa "...That's right."
(Young Cloud turns away.)
"You were all childish, laughing at every little stupid thing."
Tifa "But we were children, back then."

Young Cloud "...I know. I'm the one that was stupid. I really wanted to play with everyone, but I was never allowed into the group."
Young Cloud "Then later... I began to think I was different...”
Young Cloud “That I was different from those immature kids."
Young Cloud "That then... maybe..."
(A double of the adult Cloud speaks.)
"Just maybe, they would invite me in."

"I thought that might happen, so I hung around..."
(The double speaks again.)
"That night I called Tifa out to the well... I thought to myself Tifa would never come, that she hated me."
Tifa "Yeah... it was so sudden. I was... a bit surprised."
(She turns to face Young Cloud.)
Tifa "But... It's true that we weren't THAT close, but..."

This passage reveals several important things. In the first place, it shows that Cloud has painful memories of his childhood relationship with Tifa. This is a memory of rejection and shame involving Tifa and her friends. The loneliness and rejection that Cloud felt as a child, due to being excluded from Tifa’s group of friends, is quite obvious.

The second thing this passage conclusively reveals is that Cloud and Tifa were not close friends as children, and that Cloud only had a crush on her from afar. Cloud only used to look up at Tifa’s window from outside, and her group of friends wouldn’t allow Cloud to play with them. Cloud even goes on to say that when he invited Tifa to the well, he thought that she hated him, which further indicates how estranged they were. Cloud wouldn’t be feeling that Tifa hated him if they were close to one another. Therefore, Cloud’s crush on Tifa was never based on an actual relationship with her. It was merely a childhood crush from afar.

The second part of Cloud’s important memory having to do with Tifa is another memory of shame, embarrassment, remorse, fear, and guilt… an incident causing Cloud to be devastated because of Tifa.

On the day that Tifa’s mother died, she headed into the mountains, thinking that her mother’s spirit may have passed through there. On the way, a bridge collapsed and Tifa fell to the ground with Cloud trailing a few feet behind. When they are found, a man yells at Cloud and blames him for the incident. The man tells Cloud that Tifa may even die from the fall, which must have caused Cloud incredible guilt.

(Tifa's father and another man come running onscreen, shocked.)
(Tifa's father carries her away, and the other man screams at young Cloud.)
"Cloud! Why'd you bring Tifa to a place like this!"
"What the hell's the matter with you!?"
"What if she dies!?"

Tifa was in a coma for seven days afterwards, and they didn’t know if she would make it. Think of the effect this would have on a child, when he has been told that the incident was his fault and that he is to blame for her possible death. This is the important memory that Cloud recalls for Tifa, not a memory of his past crush on her. Instead, it is a memory of guilt, shame, remorse, and fear surrounding his childhood with Tifa. Not only was Cloud rejected by Tifa and her friends, he felt blamed for the incident at the bridge. After he tells Tifa of the incident at the bridge, we learn more of his reaction to it:

(The dark Cloud speaks again.)
"Tifa was in a coma for seven days. We all thought she wouldn't make it. If only I could've saved her.. I was so angry...”
“Angry at myself for my weakness. Ever since then, I felt Tifa blamed me... I got out of control... I'd get into fights not even caring who it was."
"That was the first time I heard about Sephiroth. If I got strong like Sephiroth, then everyone might..."
"If I could just get stronger... Then even Tifa would have to notice me..."

Notice that Cloud says, “If I got strong like Sephiroth, then *EVERYONE* might… If I could just get stronger… Then *EVEN* Tifa would have to notice me.” It was not only for Tifa that Cloud wanted to get stronger, but so that everyone, such as the group of friends who rejected him, would notice him. Cloud wanted to be accepted, and he didn’t want to be blamed. This is why Cloud decided to try and join SOLDIER and become like Sephiroth.

This same passage is another indication that Cloud never incorporated the “Zack persona”. Remember Cloud’s cold, impersonal behavior in Midgar? At one point in the Seventh Heaven, Cloud even almost picks a fight with Barret over his pay by standing up tall to get in Barret’s face. This is exactly how Cloud describes his behavior as a child after the bridge incident: “I got out of control… I’d get into fights not even caring who it was.” Tifa also mentions in the Seventh Heaven that Cloud used to get into fights at the drop of a hat. So Cloud was acting very much like himself in Midgar rather than like Zack.

The fourth stage of the Lifestream event is where Cloud remembers his true role in the Nibelheim incident five years earlier, along with carrying Tifa to the side in the reactor, which is discussed on this website in Part 4: Whose Hero Is Cloud? His true role during the Nibelheim incident is the only thing Cloud is ever shown to have confused in his memories, along with the fact that he was never in SOLDIER. Look at what Cloud says to everyone aboard the Highwind in the scene after the Lifestream Event:

Cloud "I never was in SOLDIER.”
Cloud “I made up the stories about what happened to me five years ago, about being in SOLDIER.”
Cloud “I left my village looking for glory, but never made it in to SOLDIER...”
Cloud “I was so ashamed of being so weak; then I heard this story from my friend Zack...”
Cloud “And I created an illusion of myself made up of what I had seen in my life....”
Cloud “And I continued to play the charade as if it were true."

Cloud specifically says that he “made up the stories” about what happened five years ago and about being in SOLDIER, which also argues the idea of Cloud incorporating a personality other than his own. Cloud says that he willfully created an illusion of himself made up of what he had seen in his life because he was ashamed of being so weak. This indicates that his confused memories about the Nibelheim incident were nothing imposed upon him. Rather, it was a willful decision on Cloud’s part to live this illusion.

Cloud was a young man ashamed of his weakness, rejected by the group of friends he wanted to play with, ignored by the girl he had a crush on, and blamed for the incident where Tifa fell from the bridge. In addition to all this, Cloud fails to make it as a SOLDIER after leaving his village to look for glory. Then Cloud meets someone whom he admires and looks up to, a first class SOLDIER by the name of Zack. Cloud starts to imitate Zack in the same way that many young people try to imitate their heroes. Cloud’s memories became distorted about the Nibelheim event for that reason, not because he incorporated the personality of Zack.

This also means there was no effect on Cloud’s memories of growing up in the same village as Tifa, or on his memories of a past crush on her, which is substantiated by the fact that he gives a detailed recollection of the incident when Tifa fell of the bridge. Cloud accurately recalls his childhood memories involving Tifa, which are memories of rejection, shame, embarrassment, remorse and guilt, rather than fond memories of a caring childhood relationship.

The Lifestream Event is not a “rediscovery of Cloud’s past feelings for Tifa”. The only things that Cloud rediscovers in the Lifestream Event is that he was never a member of SOLDIER and what actually happened in Nibelheim five years ago. The remainder of this event is Cloud’s recollection of the painful memories surrounding his childhood relationship with Tifa.

Well-said, well-explained. *nods head in agreement*
;)

Yeah, the Cloti's try to use this as their next best "proof" after we prove that the Highwind Scene has three optional versions. Then they go off on a tangent trying to prove that Aerith never knew the "real Cloud" because he wasn't the "real Cloud" until after the Lifestream Event.

The trouble with this hypothesis is that if Aerith didn't know the "real Cloud", then neither did Tifa. Tifa didn't know Cloud well as a child, which is clearly stated during the Lifestream Event:

Tifa "...that's right. We lived next to each other. But I really didn't know you that well."

Since Tifa didn't know Cloud well as a child, then she was just getting to know him when he arrived in Midgar at the beginning of FFVII - when he wasn't the "real Cloud", according to their own hypothesis.

Yet, Tifa asks the dog outside the Mideel Clinic if it's lost someone it loves, then she cries on Cloud's knees in the Mideel Clinic saying that she doesn't know what she'll do without him. Tifa falls in love with Cloud BEFORE the Lifestream Event, which is BEFORE he becomes the "real Cloud", according to their hypothesis. If Aerith didn't fall in love with the "real Cloud", then neither did Tifa.

Couple this with the fact that Cloud and Tifa only have 6 non-optional interactions between the Lifestream Event and the Highwind Scene, and it's easy to use their own argument against them. ;)

Yep! ;)
One thing I never quite understood, who says Cloud had a crush on Tifa? He never really says that, people just infer it. I always thought that he looked up to Tifa because of how popular she was, and he saw her as his doorway into popularity.

No i'd say he definately had a crush on her. It was more like he wanted to be part of the group in order to get close to Tifa when they were kids. When Tifa was running up the mountain he didn't care about the other guys but about what was happening to Tifa.

No CLoud definately had a crush on Tifa when they were kids but that's all it was just a crush. Crushes mean little and don't last. They're still friends in the events of the game but they are no more than that however much Tifa wants it to be.

Tifa can never ever make Cloud happy the way Aerith could...
Maybe in the end, she just decided to give her devotion to him through friendship.
They could be more than friends but less than lovers in the end... coz I just think that nobody could ever replace Aerith in Cloud's heart. ;)

Naru, who has helped Anastar with her "Japanese Perspective" essays on Destiny Fulfilled, stated that she believes Cloud was actually the subject of "ijime", or bullying, from Tifa and her friends. This is, in fact, true. You can see two articles on "ijime" here and here. These articles state that victims of "ijime" are ignored, ostracized, and humiliated. This is EXACTLY what happens to Cloud during his childhood. So, why the hell would he fall in love with someone who bullied him as a child? Some people don't believe Tifa bullied Cloud because they are looking at this from a NA perspective. However, in Japan, it is a well-known fact that children wish to fit into a group. Cloud was excluded from Tifa's group. Tifa participated in his exclusion willingly. According to the Japanese, Tifa WAS guilty of subjecting Cloud to "ijime".

Hmmm, I'm not so sure about that either. The way she talked, she didn't even know he existed. She wasn't mean to him in the flashbacks, just didn't notice him.

How could she have lived all that time in Nibelheim with Cloud and not noticed him hanging around outside her group? I think she noticed, she just didn't want to invite him in. She excluded him when he wanted to be part of her group. "Ijime" is not about being visibly "mean" to someone, it is merely the exclusion of one who wants to be part of the group. Cloud was ostracized from Tifa's group. I believe it was intentional.

I will personally admit that the lifestream event was the most confusing part of the game for me... in the sense that it seemed to me that Square made a complete about-face in the storyline and suddenly made the love story one between CloudXTifa, and Aeris was just suddenly forgotten. Like they just started using a different script halfway through the game. Fortunately, the game began refering back to Aeris again afterwards, and my confusion was put (largely) to rest. Perhaps the primary purpose of the lifestream event (besides advancing the plot, obviously) was to allow for the "chance to develop Coud and Tifa's relationship" that Nomura decided to slip into the game at the last minute? In otherwords, the "CloudXTifa" aspect of the love triangle "peaked" during this scene, to satisfy Nomura's desire to develop that aspect of the storyline a little more, and then the plot of the game slowly reoriented itself back to a CloudXAeris emphasis aftwerwards. I hope this makes sense! :blink:

The first time I saw the Lifestream Event, my only reaction to it in terms of Cloud and Tifa was, "Awww... he HAD a crush on her when they were little kids in Nibelheim"....

... but HAD is past tense. What Cloud *used* to feel for her seven years ago cannot be used as evidence for what Cloud feels in the current frame of events.

You've basically got a situation where a boy in fifth grade has a distant crush on a girl in fourth grade that he doesn't know well. She ignores him, and he isn't allowed into her group of friends. Then he moves away and they don't communicate for seven years. Will that boy definitely still have that same crush on that same girl when he graduates from high school seven years later?

There's no guarantee of it whatsoever, and it's actually quite unrealistic to think that he will continue to feel the same way. A lot can happen in seven years, including getting over a crush. The chances of Cloud feeling the same way would be far better if they had been in love with one another and had a close relationship as children... but they didn't. Tifa even says so during the Lifestream Event:

Tifa "...that's right." "We lived next to each other." "But I really didn't know you that well."

Past feelings are not conclusive evidence that Cloud continues to feel the same way during the current frame of events. That's why I've always disregarded the evidence in the Lifestream Event of Cloud's feelings for Tifa. It shows absolutely nothing about how Cloud currently feels... and his current feelings are the only feelings that matter.

Yeah, but when you say that, CloTis say that he didn't know Aerith for very long either, and can move on after she died, and start moving forward with Tifa ...

... but he knew Aerith well, was at the very least close friends with her, (WE think they loved each other, and so does Square, obviously!!), they fought alongside one another, Aerith tended to Cloud when he fell through the church roof, he came to help her no matter what, and they were always thinking about each other, even after she died. We then see in AC, that Cloud has been grieving for the past two years (or at least two years later) after the end of VII.

Then the CloTis claim that Aerith wasn't in Cloud thoughts during the lifestream ...

... but that because the lifestream featured his childhood, and his life before he met Aerith. If it had been his entire life, we would have seen Aerith quite often, and Tifa would almost disappear in his most recent stage of life. Almost all of his focus was on Aerith, and Tifa was pushed to the side. Not that she was ever a focus once he arrived in Midgar, as Cloud had little time to interact with her before running into Aerith.

And I agree with Buhon, the Lifestream part was awefully sudden, and I think they just wanted to include something for Tifa fans, to develop the triangle, which is almost completely comprised of C x A moments, with Tifa angry and jealous to the side.

A few hours ago I was playing the game and was at the Lifestream scene. My brother was with me the whole time.

Even then, he refuses to believe that Cloud and Tifa don't match. He thinks that they deserve each other, just because Tifa loved him and Cloud had a crush on her. <_< :ph43r:

It had been seven years, usually crushes last no longer than a year then it passes, like the wind passing by.

Sigh... :( nothing can persuade such a nut shell like my brother, to believe in
anything, unless he believes it himself.

The Lifestream Event is STILL used by CloTis today to "prove" that Cloud loves Tifa. They don't seem to get the idea that his feelings were all in the PAST and there is NOTHING to prove that he feels the same way about Tifa during CURRENT events. I have even had one CloTi try to convince me that the Lifestream Event revolved completely around Cloud's crush on Tifa. They completely disregarded my words when I stated that the Lifestream Event was focused on Cloud's PAST, to help him remember and resolve this issue. Did they miss the entire POINT of this scene or what??? :blink:

Obviously, or they wouldn't even think of using it as evidence...

*smacks some sense into the Clotis*

yep. Loads of Clotis like to use the Lifestream scene as an evidence of their love. On the contrary, I feel that the lifestream scene existed to emphasize on Cloud's past...it let us know more about our dear Cloud, what he had been through when he was little... more than anything, it showed us the somewhat tragic relationship between Cloud and Tifa...tragic in the sense that Cloud used to want her attention so much when he was little...doing weird (ok not exactly lol) things to prove himself...while, now Tifa was the one having these lingering feelings for Cloud but she was nothing but a comrade, a good friend to him now.

That is strictly how i feel, Cloud hadn't shown much romantic tendencies towards Tifa at all... Honestly, throughout the game he was more concerned about Aerith, and after her death he was obssessed with avenging for her. :( I don't understand why Clotis can see it the other way round... I read once on some forum, a cloti said if anyone wants cloti evidence,go play the game. :huh:

Yes, they say that because it makes it sound like they know what they're talking about. They really couldn't find anything to say, most likely. <_<

And then they say that it matters not that Cloud and Aeris appeared together in Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy Tactics, because, "Cloud and Tifa had their game too, it's called 'Final Fantasy VII.'" But do they explain why? <_<

I hate it when they say that, because there is absolutely NOTHING in FFVII to back up CloudxTifa. So LAAAAAAAAME... :rolleyes:

Come on, crushes fade away by time. And besides, he was too young to fall in love with Tifa, so it wasn't/isn't love. That's the whole problem about childhood crushes. It may sound sweet and all, but in reality there's no such thing because a person can only experience true love at 16 or 17. (Unless you did fall in love with that person after you turn 16, but that's not the point)

Clotis especially like to point out that if Cleris believe that love lasts forever, then wouldn't Cloud's so-called crush on Tifa will stay the same? They call us hypocrites, but in fact they're even bigger hypocrites than us.

What about this, huh?

"Cloud will get over Aerith soon, no one can stay in love with a person who's already gone. Out of sight, out of mind."

...and they say this as you see their Cloti banners with words like 'Cloud and Tifa's love will be forever'.

They amaze me, sometimes.

:blink: :ph43r: Hmm... they really aren't the religious types from what I see in that quote.

But like you said, he was too young to fall in love. Other than that, when he was around 16 or so he returned to Nibelheim, but after 'killing' Sephiroth, he and Zack were used in an experiment. I don't know for how long though, but from what I saw in the memory, it looked like they were there for a long time.

I think, Cloud didn't really get to experience true love at that time. Besides, during the whole time, till Zack was murdered, Cloud was not fully conscious and it was Zack who took care of him , not Tifa.

Now it makes me wonder... how did Tifa fall in love with Cloud even though she has only spoken to him once? (that promise under the stars thing...)

Maybe nobody wanted her and she was desperate for a boyfriend... :ph43r: Just kidding. :rolleyes:

Good question, but in the game didn't she something during the Lifestream scene? She said that after he left, she thought of him everyday and looked in the newspappers just in case his name or picture was there. :ph43r:

But about the 'desperate' for boyfriend bit, maybe as from what I saw during the memory scene in Kalm, Tifa was more with herself than with her group of friends. She was lonely, I guess and Cloud was the only guy whom was there when most of her other friends weren't. :unsure:

Yeah, her friends were pretty mean.

I guess the theme of FFVII is loneliness. Cloud was lonely, Aerith was lonely, Tifa was lonely, Vincent was lonely, Barret was lonely, Red XIII was lonely.... :ph43r:

Come to think of it, you may be right.
Other than that, it may be also about guilt , unveiling truth and revenge.

In the Lifestream, Cloud revealed or unveiled the truth with and to Tifa as according to him he had been living on the stories told Zack. Other than that, Tifa admitted that she did hide some true facts about his past from him.

Revenge, Cloud seeked revenge when Sephiroth took away Aerith, his mother and his hometown. Barret seeked revenge on the Shinra as they burned his town, his wife and made him lose his best friend.

Guilt, Cloud felt guilty for not being able to save Aerith. Barret, for Dyne's death and the fact that he should be protecting Marlene. Red XIII, for not believing in his father the first time around. The list goes on.

To be honest, I didn't quite get the Lifestream event til I played it like the 3rd
time. But as far as I remember, I don't remember anything that deals with
Cloud recognizing his feelings for Tifa again. Personlly, I only saw it as Cloud's
quest to finding about the 'real' truth and his true self. I don't even know why
the heck Tifa was there...maybe SE just placed her there so Cloud can have someone to talk to about his truth, and it was ony Tifa because she was the one
who knew about Cloud's past. Honestly, I thought that if Aerith were still alive,
it would've been definitely her, rather than Tifa.

And I still don't understand how CloTis see this as another proof for CloTi being the true couple.

And I don't believe that Cloud had a crush on Tifa...even if he did, he was
still a young child and you know, crushes in those ages are so called "puppy
love."

I finished playing the Lifestream event a while ago. (After I manage to survive Weapon)

My impression is that Tifa helped Cloud unlocked his real memories, I have not yet seen anything that IMPLY Cloud 'finding' out his tru lurve iz Teefa.

But what did we get? We found out chibi Cloud (I HAVE to use that word) want to be a part of Tifa's circle of friends, hoping to join. Tagging along, hoping someone invited him in, yeah, real close friends. :rolleyes:

Beside, after I seen this event, I redefine my meaning of Tifa's surname. Even if surnames are for characters themselves, I say it also mean for Cloud to...because Tifa's the key to unlocked the TRUE memories. (Like I say 'feelings' instead of 'memories'.) Memories that Cloud isn't a 1st Classed SOLDIER, that all he 'remembers' are Zack's memories mixed with his own.

I know Tifa noticed something strange about Cloud, but she just kept the truth with her and play along.


I'll add more once I gather my thoughts up a bit more. Personally, I wouldn't mind Aerith helping Cloud in that scene, but I understand why SE choose Tifa instead of say, Yuffie. SHE knows the truth, SHE can help Cloud, even Aerith knows that from MOTP.

But in the end...Cloud thinks only of Aerith, even with Tifa standing next to him.