Well, now that AC is out, I guess giving intepretations of the ending and what happened after may be a little useless, but companies are known to change the story to what they had originally planned to fit in a sequel (just look at FFX-2...)
So my question, what did you think happened after? Cloud said he could meet her in the end, people argued whether or not the earth was destroyed, or the promise land was a place in his head, etc?

I truly hoped that Aerith would be 'back'. Because she says she would be back to him in his dream. This is my theory - because Aerith is a Cetra, being in the lifestream, rather than create a new form and be 'reborn' as something else, that stream was put back into her original body and she was then 'revived'. (Remember the cycle that Bugginhagen explained?) I think it sounds totally possible and reasonably within the original story...I mean she is..was the last survivor of an ancient race...It's kinda bad that the planet lets it die off. (Plus, it could be a gift from the planet for sacrificing herself or leading the lifestream to stop meteor.)

What did you guys think about the end?

My interpretation of the ending was that Cloud got an answer from the Planet about where the Promised Land was. That's what I understood his words to mean: ".... an answer from the Planet.... the Promised Land.... I think I can meet her.... there" It may be difficult, it may not even be possible... but Cloud wanted to try to find her more than anything else because he loves her, and Cloud was going to risk everything while trying. So far, I've seen no indication in the previews that Cloud has tried to find Aerith... and that bothers me. I'm hoping that the movie will show that he has tried.

I also interpreted the ending to mean that Cloud would be able to communicate with Aerith in some way. The flower field scene shown in the previews makes it seem like this is the first time Cloud has communicated with Aerith in two years. Again, I hope the movie shows it differently.

I wasn't surprised that humanity survived because I couldn't see Aerith knowingly participating in anything that would result in the destruction of Humanity. After all, Aerith bonded Humanity with the white materia so that Humanity would be spared.

Cloud probably just remained quiet about his true feelings regarding Aerith, but it could be seen on his face; and everybody especially Tifa can see that clearly (and when the time for Advent Children came, well, she should be able to point that out to people). In his mind and in his dreams, he could be hoping to see her again, but he is suppressing himself from being too hopeful because of the guilt he is feeling for the past two years.

In those two years before Advent Children, the illness Geostigma could have been starting already in his system... and while he does not know this yet, he could have been thinking of ways in the back of his mind to meet/see Aerith again.
And then upon the discovery that he has accumulated the illness, he decided on something: to just let himself die of that illness; intending that maybe then he could meet her again once he dies.

He could be staying with Tifa and the others once in a while, like visiting to see if they're alright or to just crash the house for a while to eat and rest and then go someplace else... like the Church; where he could feel closer to Aerith.

At least that's what I could think of for now on what Cloud had done for the past two years before Advent Children. :P I might add onto these later on. ^_^

Yeah, I've always seen the ending as "Holy wasn't strong enough, so Aeris swooped in with the Lifestream and saved the world. Midgar was destroyed, that's why we see Red with it all planty"
It SHOCKED me when I found out that some people thought the planet was destroyed! Or that humanity was killed off. I was like "Bu-but Aeris SAVED them! She sacrificed her life and saved them!"
I'm with Aly, I really hope SE will state that Cloud's been searching for her. Because in FFT and KH he was shown to be, just like at the ending of FFVII. Obviously that's what his last line meant, but will SE be as clear about that in AC?

If they don't, they will be discarding everything they have portrayed Cloud as for the past 7 years. They will be making themselves look very foolish indeed.

*sigh* And the CloTi's will dance, and rave.

I thought the ending meant that Cloud finally understood his feelings for Aerith. He used to be so confused, but Sephiroth was in the way of Holy reaching the planet, so once he was gone, and holy worked, Cloud understood, because he could then communicate with Aeris. Sort of a spiritual connection, maybe? It's hard to explain... I think there is a chance of her being revived, because the lifestream/holy/ the weapons, are in a way, guardians of the planet. Well, so is Aeris, and if it were up to the weapons, they would kill off every human, and leave nature, and Cetras. I don't know where I'm going with this, all I know is, my theories are all really complicated! :lol:

Well... up until I hear about Advent Children I assumed that humanity had been more or less destroyed... with a few survivors remaining (the giggling children at the end). Nature had taken over. It was a bummer of an ending, so I was glad for AC, if for nothing else, that my original impression was wrong and the ending wasn't THAT depressing. But yeah, it seemed to me that Cloud laid bare his feelings for Aeris, not for Tifa, at the end.


One thing that I could never figure out, though, was that large ball of yellow glowing light that Cloud encounters in the Lifestream either before or after the one-on-one fight with Sephiroth. It must have some sort of meaning, as the scene stops to focus on it, and Cloud looks at it. I assumed it was an implication of Aeris' spirit watching over Cloud. Any thoughts on that?

I had a fascinating discussion with Peter Marcroft, who wrote The Riddle of the Promised Land, about that ball of light one time at Gamefaqs. We talked about it at length, and as far as we can see, it's the one location in the game that potentially fits all requirements for the location of the Promised Land - if the Promised Land actually has a physical location rather than being a state of mind.

The location of the Promised Land has to fit all of the definitions given by Aerith, since she is best qualified as the last remaining Cetra to know what the Promised Land truly is. Aerith says that the Promised Land is an area of supreme happiness and that you must search and travel until you find it. She also says in the Temple of Ancients that the Promised Land is an area offering great spiritual power along with a great deal of the Planet's energy.

Now, the Lifestream is the source of the Planet's energy, but we ruled that out as a possible location due to how easily it's located and the cries of suffering heard coming from it. What about an area within the Lifestream that exists as a distinct and separate entity from the Lifestream itself? An area separate and distinct from the Lifestream, while still residing within it, would have access to all of the energy within the Lifestream. Supreme happiness may still exist there as well, since it remains distinct and separate from the Lifestream itself. Cloud is apparently within the Lifestream as he is traveling through the tunnels, and the yellow orb is seen drifting within the Lifestream. You would have to search and travel until you find the yellow sphere drifting within the Lifestream.

It has been said that the yellow sphere looks similar to the white materia, but the white materia is still in the pool of the Forgotten City and it has turned green. Others have suggested that the yellow sphere is Holy when they forget that Holy and the white materia are two different things. The white materia is used to summon Holy. Holy is shown as it attacks Meteor in the Final FMV, and it's obvious that the yellow sphere looks nothing like Holy.

As Cloud passes by while he is traveling through the tunnels, the camera angles up towards the yellow sphere for a minute. What else can this yellow sphere possibly be? Although the idea of the Promised Land being the yellow sphere is purely hypothetical, it seems to fit all the information we currently have about the Promised Land.

I am very familiar with that theory. I even remember you, Aly, preaching to me about it long ago in ACF. Well not really preaching, I'm just teasing you. ^_^
But this theory is a very good one and might as well be what the developers had in mind.
Still, even so I personally hope that this is not the case. My mind is so set on the idea that the Promised Land is different for everyone. To some it might be a state of mind while to others it is a location, it is more romantic that way. And as you all know (well at least few of you) I'm hopeless romantic. :P

And if we add to that what Nomura once said, that the place where Midgar was built might have been the Promised Land that Shinra was searching for. While he didn't mean it to be official it would mean that the Promised Land is different for everyone. But like I mentioned, Nomura was only speculating.

Oh, I agree that it may be something else, and that it may not even have a physical location. It may be nothing more than a state of mind. If there IS a physical location for the Promised Land in the game, however, that's the only location that fits all the requirements for it set by Aerith.

I think that site stating that Nomura thought Midgar was the Promised Land is highly questionable, since it contradicts his own story. If Midgar is the Promised Land, then why did Ifalna tell Aerith that she had to leave Midgar to find her Promised Land?

Well that I agree with, as I just can not seem to find that particular interview/article anywhere. I saw it long ago somewhere but I have no memory where exactly...

I really don't know why I am so against the idea that the Promised Land could be a single place, another planet perhaps or whatever. But I suppose that comes from real life where I do not believe in heaven as religious people do (I do not even believe in god :lol:), but I believe that there is something, some place or someone out there that will make us realize what really is important to us and when we realize that we can live happily ever after. :D

There's other false statements made on the same site, such as that Nomura killed off Aerith so that Tifa could become the main heroine of the story. The site is here: http://flaregamer.com/b2article.php?p=81&more=1 I bookmarke it after several Cloti's tried to use it on me as "proof". :rolleyes: Nomura may have said that the Shinra considered Midgar to be the Promised Land at one time, which is why they built all of the Mako reactors there. It provided the energy they wanted at the time, so they considered it the Promised Land, just like they considered the Northern Crater to be the Promised Land later in the game.

At this point, we have no idea where or what the Promised Land truly is. There's also evidence in the game that it's only a state of mind, as you suggest, such as when Ifalna tells Aerith that she must leave Midgar in order to find her Promised Land. That's personalizing it so that it appears to be unique to each individual. The idea that the Shinra and Sephiroth both considered the Promised Land to be the Northern Crater because it gave them the energy that they desired - something that would make them happy - is also evidence that it's just what makes you happy. So yes, there's nothing definite.

However, IF the Promised Land has a physical location, which is also indicated in the story even by Aerith, then the yellow sphere is the only location which fits all the requirements. It's purely hypothetical, and who knows if Square will ever tell us?

I need to stop hitting the report button instead of quote :lol:

That's from his interview in the Dismantled book. I'm on my way out in a second so I have to be brief, but I think it's more something like he personally feels that in the ending Midgar is the Promised Land when Aerith/the Ancients are guiding the Lifestream?

I do the same thing! :lol:

Wow... I'd love to hear that full quote! I'm still wondering how Midgar can be the Promised Land when Ifalna told Aerith to leave Midgar in order to find it, though. :huh:

(When the interviewer mentions how the ending is different from the past FF games, and how people have different interpretations of it)

"Some people might think the Northern Crater is the Promised Land, others might say that everything that comes from the earth is the Promised Land. At least personally, I think that from the scene in the ending where greenary/plants are thriving, and where Aerith--- in other words the Ancients are guiding a lot of the Lifestream, that Midgar is the Promised Land. Although I don't know how Nojima [in charge of the scenario] would put it (laughs)."

Although according the an interview with him in "Game Maestro vol. 4" (or at least part of it) conducted in May 2001, the interviews might have been edited and left some parts out. So perhaps this question had other parts to it that were left out as well.

Why do I have the feeling that I'm going to be accidently banned one of these days. :rolleyes:

Now that I think about it the ending really is very different from other FF games. It leaves so much for the players to figure out and where most endings usually answer what ever questions you might have FFVII only mixes the soup even more by throwing more puzzle pieces at you.
But I like it that way, I want things to be left bit open even after everything is suppose to be over, if only so there is always a chance for a sequel. :lol:

So we should ask Nojima instead of Nomura. I would so love to hear what he has to say about the Promised Land.

Fascinating... thank you, Wilhelm! And yes, that site misquoted him.

He's contradicted himself a second time, though. In one of the interviews about AC, Nomura stated that the Planet was the force guiding the Lifestream at the end of the game rather than Aerith. I was very disappointed when I read that, but now I see him saying that it was Aerith - and the Ancients - who guided the Lifestream. Then again, is the consciousness of the Planet also the consciousness of the Ancients?

Is this why Midgar is so important in AC? :unsure:

In FFVII you become one with the planet when you die, don't you? (Sephiroth said something like that, but he wasn't exactly Mr. Sanity then.) So then technically the planet is the Ancients? I need sleep, really :lol:

From what the Game Maestro interview says, he complained about the editing on the interview. He mentioned how people think he was the one who thought up the scenario where Aerith dies, and how some of them attacked him about it. He said that in a strategy interview they left out the core part and published only the joke part, and by the time he told them it wasn't right it was too late, so he ending up as the villian of the FF staff. (Later on the interviewer says/asks him something about him being the ringleader of it, but that'll have to wait until tomorrow after I've gone to bed.)

Actually, Bugenhagen also said that you return to the Planet. However, the Promised Land has always been associated with the Ancients. Some even believe that ONLY Ancients go to the Promised Land, while other souls just go to the Lifestream. Some people argue that Cloud wouldn't be able to be reunited with Aerith after death, for example, because Cloud is not an Ancient. I've never thought that to be true, but the Cloti's claim that non-Ancients can't reach the Promised Land. (It looks like he can, since Tifa says that Cloud believes that he will meet her once he dies.)

At any rate, the Planet is conscious. We know that because the Planet built the Weapons, and because the Planet decides what is good for the Planet and what is bad for the Planet. Where does the Planet's consciousness reside? Most likely in the Lifestream.

Yes, yes, yes!! I'd love to hear that, Wilhelm! The Cloti's use that quote where he laughs as evidence all the time that Nomura killed Aerith off to make Tifa into the main heroine of the story! I would love to hear what really happened!

And where is this Game Maestro interview from? I don't believe I've heard about this one before.

Wouldn't we all. :rolleyes:

But it looks like poor Nomura has been blamed for something he is not even responsible for. He seems like very Clorith anyway. ^_^

I might be CloudxAerith fan but that sounds like a good theory to me, surprisingly. It would only make their story more tragic, not even in death can they be together again. But that would only mean that Cloud would need to figure out another way, so that would mean that he doesn't want to die as that would make sure that he could never be with Aerith again. So now he is desperatly searching for a way to be with her, before Geostigma defeats him.

Or at least that's how it could be. :P

OMG... Wilhelm... this interview wouldn't happen to say something about Sakaguchi's reaction to bringing Tifa into the story, would it? Crisis read an article a long time ago quoting Sakaguchi as being very unhappy about bringing Tifa into the story, but she lost the link and she was never able to find it again. It wouldn't happen to be in this interview, would it? :o

*wakes Wilhelm up* :lol:

Bah, humbug :P ... here, read my posts on whether he can or not:

http://forums.adventchildren.net/showpost....&postcount=5764

http://forums.adventchildren.net/showpost....&postcount=5767

Bah to you as well! :lol:
But I didn't say I agree with that theory, I just said it's not really a bad one. And I bet you've heard lot worse from the Clotis you so hate. ^_^
Besides, I think we can turn this particular theory to support Cloud and Aerith and not hinder them like it was meant to.

But let poor little Wilhelm sleep, he has done enough for one day. :)

:blink:

...And the plot thickens...

And yeah, Nomura is Cloud/Aeris looking at the hints he likes to put in games. *coughkingdomheartscoughbonustoplayerscough*

"Game Maestro" was a series of interview books, which talked to various people from successful video game companies. They were seperated into different volumes (5 in all IIRC, each dealing with different positions in the business. Nomura was interviewed in volume 4 (Designers/Illustrators). Kitase and I believe Sakaguchi were also interview in the other volumes.

His quote about the strategy guide interview is:

"Interviewer: FFVII had a story depicting death, what with the heroine being killed by [Cloud's] old foe Sephiroth, wasn't it?

Nomura: Yeah. There are people who believe that I thought of the scenario where Aerith dies, and I've had some rather strong attacks from some (laughs). In a strategy guide interview the core part was left out, and only the joke bit ending up being published. I told them, "hey, that's not right", but it was too late. I suddenly became the villian of the FF staff (laughs)."

I've only see a clip from Nomura's, which doesn't mention Sakaguchi's reaction. All that's mentioned about him is this (quickly done, 'cause I've got somewhere else to go):

"Nomura: To tell you the truth, FFVII's theme was "life." We had instructions from Mr. Sakaguchi saying, "More than depicting life in the theme, you have to depict life and death. Anyhow you have to portray death." With the death of a character, we wanted to have the player feel pain. So to do so, portraying the death of the heroine Aerith would be the most painful and important/heavy [on the feelings/emotions]. So, to portray death properly, it was decided that we would show Aerith's death. "

Wilhelm, this is amazing. Were these books translated into English, by any chance? I'd love to read the interviews with Nomura, Kitase, and Sakaguchi.

If nothing else, this statement shows how important Aerith's death was intended to be by the creators, as well as how painful and emotional a scene they intended it to be. Many Aerith-haters talk about how they laughed during the scene because they were so glad to get rid of such a weak character, yadda, yadda. I know we've all heard it. If nothing else, this statement shows how ridiculous such an observation about Aerith's death scene is.

Wilhelm, I think I'm going to have to hire you unless these books have been translated... :lol: Is there anything else pertaining to Cloud's feelings for Aerith vs. Tifa, or to Aerith's vs. Tifa's roles in the game?

Unless the books were translated under a different name, I don't think they were. But apparently (according to Yahoo! Books and Amazon.co.jp) they're out of print and stock. The only place I've seen them is a Yahoo! Auction selling volume 1 "Producers/Directors" (includes an interview with Sakaguchi). But it's not open to international bidding, so the only way you could get it is if you knew someone in Japan to bid for you or use one of those proxy bidding services that charge a fee :/

The 5 questions I've seen from it don't mention anything about who loves who or such. They are mainly about Aerith's death.

Looking through the lists again, I don't actually see Kitase there. I must have just imagine him there or was reading something else at the time :lol: Although Uematsu is interviewed in the "Composers" volume (#3).

Man! Poor Nomura-san!

Hmmm, interesting that he referrs to her as "the heroine". Who does the hero always love folks? ;)

And I'm with Aly, those people that say they laughed at Aeris' death make me SICK. That scene wasn't only about her death, it was more about the other characters reactions to it! These people that say they enjoyed that scene are really just enjoying the pain of all the other characters. They LIKE seeing Cloud weep while holding her body, they LIKE watching Tifa run of in tears, they LIKE seeing Yuffie collapse! In reality, these folks just hate EVERYBODY except Sephiroth!
If Quistis died, and the scene was as emotional as that, I certainly wouldn't laugh. I might even shed a few tears.

Is there any way for you to get the book with the interview by Sakaguchi? Since you have the one with the Nomura interviews, I figure you must know a way. :rolleyes:

When you have a chance, would you please translate his responses to the other questions, too? I know you're busy... that's why I want to hire you! :lol: But we'd appreciate it when you have a chance. :rolleyes:

Oh, and Wilhelm... there was a long article in Playstation last summer about AC. I think it was about 8 pages long or so. The last page showed a picture of Aerith's face from the end of FFVII at the top, and a picture of Nomura on the bottom drawing a picture of Cloud. I remember one sentence from it saying something to the effect of "for every player who has ever played the game, there is a different interpretation of FFVII". Was anything ever said in that interview (or any other that you recall) about the creators purposely leaving FFVII - and specifically the Love Triangle - open to player interpretation? If any such thing was ever said, I've never seen it. But someone is claiming that the creators did say it in some interview.

Most people I've heard say they laughed at Aerith's death claim that Cloud doesn't even cry. I agree that it's sick. How someone can laugh at that scene is beyond me.

Ok, it does NOT count when the creators laugh during an interview. They laugh all the time if you read a lot of them. <_< People who say they are laughing AT Aeris's death are just idiots.

Have you seriously heard people say that the creators are laughing at Aerith's death? :o :blink:

That just shocks me....

*Glomps Wilhelm* You ROCK!!! B) :lol: LOL!

What fascinating information! CloTis are always throwing that interview with Nomura in my face, saying that he hated Aerith's character and that was why he killed her off, etc., etc. However, with the interview regarding Aerith's death, it would seem she was DEFINITELY the most important female in the game. He even referred to her as the "heroine". So, there goes another CloTi argument down the tubes! *Cackles insanely* I WAS going to post in the LT debate tonight, but I think I will go update my LT page instead... MWA-HA-HAAAA!!! :lol:

Oh, and I agree with you guys. When people laugh at Aerith's death, it just makes me SICK!!! :angry: That scene was so moving and tragic! It takes one HEARTLESS jerkoff to laugh at something like that! *Throws gasoline on the heartless jerkoffs and sets them on fire* :ph43r:

Aaaah, that explains everything! They left the core part out...I wish they put it back, I wonder what he would have said about it... :(
I'm learning so much in this forum :lol:
But I like how they seem to talk about her death a lot, it just proves how important it was. Wouldn't it be even more sad and tragic if it were the death of the person the hero loves? :P

The only way I can think of is using a proxy (unless there's a Japanese second hand book store online, I think Book Off might have a site) like Rinkya or Celga. I've never used one myself, so I don't really know how they work too well.

I don't have the book with Nomura's interview, though. I only read a snippet of it here.

You wouldn't happen to have scans of it or a link, would you? I probably had it, but I'd have to search through my old computer to see if it's still there.

To be fair, Japanese doesn't really have articles like 'the' and 'a', you just have to put them in yourself. It could just be put as 'a heroine' (since he Dismantled interview says that they have two heroines).

Ohhhh.... I assumed you had the book. Vspirit mentioned that she remembered reading an interview of Sakaguchi's where he said that Cloud loved Aerith, but she couldn't remember where or when she had read it. Do you think that Sakaguchi's interview with Game Maetro may be somewhere online in Japan?

Would you translate the rest of what Nomura had to say when you have the chance, please?

I'll have to look for it at AC.net. I'll try to get a link to it for you today. :rolleyes:

And wilhelm... thank you so much for all the translations you've been doing for us. The scanlations of Mother and the interview translations are just wonderful. Thank you so much! :D

I'm going to end up reporting every member of this forum one of these days :lol: *presses the proper button*

I've had a look for it, but I didn't find it anywhere yet. It'd be easier with a quote from his interview, though.

It'll probably have to be tomorrow at this rate (or later tonight if I'm lucky) :/

Really? Now THAT would be an AWESOME find! Although, if it was real there wouldn't be any of this debating going on, cuz somebody else at one point would have noticed it. Well! I can hope it just got over looked!*crosses fingers*

It took me an hour searching at AC.net to find it! :lol: But here you go:

http://forums.adventchildren.net/showthread.php?t=11476

I didn't look at the pages again, but I believe it was the last page that has Aerith's picture, the pic of Nomura drawing Cloud, and the full page of text. The comment about there being as many interpretations of FFVII as there are gamers came from this thread:

http://forums.adventchildren.net/showthread.php?t=11715

Vspirit mentioned it in a thread at AC.net. She's one of the translators there, so I assume she was talking about reading it in Japanese somewhere. I may be wrong, but that was my impression. Slayer at AC.net was also going to give us an article where Sakaguchi was quoted as saying something to the effect that he had wanted to portray Cloud as always having Aerith by his side, and that his intention had been to portray Cloud as losing his beloved. Slayer hasn't given us that article yet!!! Slayer... where is it?!? :(

That's it!*puts on pink armor, goes to kick his butt until he hands it over*

I scanned through them, and there doesn't seems to be anything about leaving the love triangle open. It mentions that they had decided that if in making something new, a gap arises in the image the fans hold of it, then they should stop. That's the closest thing to leaving something open that I've saw on that.