Does "WE"... mean "two of us" of just"we"(Avalanche members) in this sentence?
My friend...again, said that "WE"...in japanese means Cloud's party.

Sorry if I've disturbed you guys. about these japanese things :o

According to Shadow Spirit, who is a Japanese descendant, the "WE" is referring to Cloud and Aerith.

And besides, in that scene when he said that line was him, Aerith and Sephiroth... with the two characters not there.

It'd be also sudden and out of the blue when Cloud began saying "What about my pain?" if he IS referring "everybody" in the lines before this.

i cried like a baby when he said that. But I don't really understand the translation... how could "we" mean he and aeris, when aeris is the one that died? I just always thought he was referring to the party. :sad:

He's saying, "What about me and Aerith? What are me and Aerith going to do?" I assume he's talking about what will happen to their relationship, rather than what are they going to do about Meteor. Shadow Spirit says that Cloud's speaking very personally, and it's the only time in the game that he uses that kind of personal speech.

Oooooooh! That's so sweet, our widdle Cloudy.

I always thought that 'WE' referred to the whole party, but if it meant just Cloud and Aerith, then it'll be wonderful!

It's not really the only time. He says the same thing to talk about Sephiroth (during the flashback scene), about the party when you meet RedXIII and fight the Sample, before getting on the boat to Costa Del Sol, after the Jenova fight, when you find the bird's nest (and choose not to take the items), when you're caught in the Battle Square, in Cosmo Canyon, in Rocket Town, Wutai, the Gold Saucer Ghost Hotel, after getting the Black Materia, the scene under the Highwind, before the last battle.

I think that when she said personally, she might have meant as him letting his true feelings out, well maybe I'm wrong, or you did get it, that way too.

Shadow Spirit told me that Cloud has a very personal way of speaking in the Death Scene that he doesn't use in any other scene to any other female in the game. He told me that Cloud normally speaks to women as if they were male, no matter which woman he's talking to: Aerith, Tifa, Elmyra, Yuffie, Elena, Scarlett, his mother, etc. However, in the Death Scene, SS told me that Cloud speaks in a very respectful, personal, gentle, and soft tone that he doesn't use in any other scene to any other woman in the game. BTW, I've asked SS to clarify in this thread.

Cloud's definitely speaking about he and Aerith, correct? That sounded quite definite, because SS said it translated into "you and I".

I have always thought that "WE" referred to Cloud and Aeris which is just sweet... :cleris:

so have I...but my stupid male friends refuse to accept that Cloud DID love Aerith....and since I don't know any girls who played the game *sigh8well...*sniff* I'm soooo Glad I found this site :sad: :blush: :cleris:

Agrees.
It's never occurred to me that the "WE" Cloud mentioned was the whole team. I thought that death scene showed the personal connections between Cloud and Aerith...so there was Cloud crying his heart out, with burning eyes and trembling hands, saying how Aerith would never smile, laugh or cry again...and all of a sudden, "what about AVALANCHE? Oh what is AVALANCHE gonna do without Aerith?"
@,@

Therefore "WE" has always been referring to "Cloud and Aerith" in my book.

I agree that it was quite personal to Cloud, and I felt, as well, that it demonstrated his special connection with her. The focus of that scene was clearly on Cloud and Aerith even though it showed that the other companions were affected by her death as well. I think that was made quite clear because Cloud got special treatment. He got to fully express his feelings. He, alone, buried her. The other companions paid Aerith their respects while he held her in his arms. However, at the same time, it was very clear they were also offering Cloud their comfort and support. It was as if they each understood she was special to him. It's why I believe "What about us...what are WE suppose to do?" was a reference to just the two of them.

At the moment, Cloud certainly didn't care about Sephiroth or the guy's plans. That's what he himself stated, correct? Why then would he be referring to how Avalanche would carry on with their plans without her? :ermm:

Well, I've always thought that "WE" meant the whole party, but if it did really
meant the two of them, then I would be more than happy!! Though, my CloTi
friend would deny this if she hears this. *sigh*

well it shouldn't matter to you...because you know that Cloud meant HIM and Aerith
not AVALANCHE without Aerith....so be happy!!:)
CloTi's rely on...well superficial stuff...we Clerith's rely in more in-dephth stuff like this...so to me it'll never matter what any CloTi says because I know I'm right.....and they're wrong :whistle:



:cry: :cry: :cry: :sad: :cry: :cry:

recently, i have read ( i dont know if its true) that in japanese is writen the same way " me" and " us"

So, what if the true would be cloud said:

..." What about me? what im supposed to do? what about my pain?" :unsure:

It's so easy for people to just bring their own interpretations in. It's why we get all these arguments over the more "mysterious" Japanese lines vs their English translations. Of course, people may interpret the English lines however they want to, but to be on the same basis, I think it's only fair that we all go by how it has been officially translated. We won't get anywhere pondering over what SE had really meant when they've already given us translations. In this case, it's:

"What about us? What are we supposed to do?"

...but, wouldn't it be nice if SE had done things the way you mentioned... ^_^

yes, it would be great :P

but i like when cloud said:

what about us?

Yeah, I prefer 'what about us' to 'what about me'. I dunno, 'what about us' just seems all the more touching to me.

Didn't wilhelm said once that those words ("what About Us...... What Are We Supposed To Do?") had romantic implications (at least in a subtle way)?

I'm not sure if that was wilhelm or Vilaeth from the ACF. Unless they are the same person.

I think it was Shadow Spirit, not Wilhelm. It's on the first page:

On Destiny Fulfiled, in the Japanese perspective article, there's this quote from Naru.

Is that what you were thinking of, CS?

I prefer the official 'us' translations too. It seems so much more personal, for Cloud to be referring to the two of them, instead of just him and his feelings alone.

It's like how he just randomly speaks to her out of nowhere in FFVII Dismantled. Very personal. ^_^

Yes.

Still, for some reason I believe that either wilhelm or Vilaeth said so too. I might be wrong, though.

Anyways, I'd like to know what wilhelm has to say about this (if he hasn't already said anything).

I don't think this is up for debate so much...

Especially considering Maiden.

That's a load of crap ^^; Especially in this case, where it's refering specifially to more than one person.

I never thought his lines had an intrinsicly romantic edge (considering he uses the exact same phrase for the whole team, himself and Tifa, Zack and Cloud, the whole of humanity). I think it's mainly what people read into it.

When does he use the exact same phrase, wilhelm?

The set-up makes it believable there may have been romantic implications in that line, IMO. Afterall, it's not like Cloud and Aerith were just standing around. It certainly was a very tender moment, and you have Cloud with her in his arms while stating so.

I never bothered too much with that line though.
What I found significantly more important was the fact that he cared about Aerith's separation from them/him even more than Sephiroth's plans to take over the world. To me, that speaks a volume. I didn't see feelings to that extent from Cloud in regards to anyone else in that game.

So you mean what Cloud said in Japanese can only be absolutely translated to "us" and not "me"?

Why would him referring "us" to himself and Aerith necessarily be lovey dovey romantic? Like what HD said, it was a tender moment between him and Aerith, him having her in his arms while the rest of AVALANCHE were out of the picture (aka TV screen).

Do you not think that at that point, Cloud asking about "What's gonna happen to AVALANCHE" sounds a tad too selfish and out of order? At that point, Cloud is only concern about losing Aerith (for me as loved one, for you as a valued friend perhaps). It seems a bit awkward to me to try to negate romance from that scene by restricting "us" to mean "AVALANCHE" absolutely.
Without a doubt, "us" appears to mean "Cloud and Aerith" to me. Whether one thinks it is romantic or not, it's for another debate =p

I'd have to take this quote as how it's given to us. I know nothing about Japanese except one or two words learned while watching Neon Genesis, so I always go with the official translations over any sort of fan thing that becomes filtered with interpretation.

Precisely how I saw it. Cloud was tenderly holding Aerith's limp body, saying every thought out loud. In those kinds of shocking states, it's not uncommon to just speak your thoughts. In that scene, when Cloud was holding Aerith, I saw him for the first time in the game really seem like he was in love with her. He even says that the cycle of nature and Sephiroth's plans are suddenly unimportant... all that matters is that Aerith is gone.

That was my interpretation.

*Agrees with HD, STA, and Sadhana* Absolutely. :yes: After seeing this scene, I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that Cloud was in love with Aerith. Suddenly, his arch-nemesis, whom he has been searching for, is right behind him... and he doesn't care??? All he cares about is the loss of Aerith, how he'll never hear her voice or see her smile again, how Aerith has been taken from him. Cloud was so emotional in that scene, which was not like him at all. It was like a wall inside him had come tumbling down, letting all those pent-up emotions out. It was like watching someone break. :sad:

Seriously, when Cloud thought Tifa was dying, he sat her aside and went after Sephiroth. He was still so obsessed with Sephiroth that he didn't do anything for Tifa. Zangan, Tifa's teacher, was the one to tend her wounds and take her down the mountain to get help. But, when Aerith was taken from him, Sephiroth suddenly didn't matter at all. Cloud could have turned around and struck Sephiroth down while he was posing like a weirdo. But, no... he was too devastated by the loss of Aerith.

I never once thought that when Cloud said that he meant the party cos i mean if he was just referring to the party its just not the same

Besides it means so much more that he is talking about Aerith and Him :)

Well thats what i think :D xxx

Well...

I first thought he was refering to the party when cloud said:

what about us? what we are suposed to do?

But then...it is imposible, because, come on, the girl just died and cloud is going to think about the party?? it is not so selfish!

and then, cloud will say:

what about my pain?

so, he is talking abouth aeris and him...

that's TRUE. "i thought you were a goner"-CLOUD and he didn't even bother to call an ambulance, or some random person to help. he just set her aside.... XDXDXD unlike in Aerith's death, we could see the softer side of Cloud that he had never showed anyone. "Your stupid plans don't mean a thing! aerith is gone..." it's like he ignored everything else and focused on Aerith alone.


and i've always hated the way english language is always so complex.
because the pronoun we could refer to 1st person and the second person together (in this case, Cloud and Aerith) or 1st person,3rd person(Cloud and AVALANCHE for this one) together.
i know there's really no connection but i'd love to share the 'we' in my first language. ^____^ "tayo" and "natin"(in some grammar cases) is a translation for "we" which refers to "you and i" (1st and 2nd person) then there's "kami" and "namin"(in some grammar cases) is also a translation for "we" which refers to "me and the others/my gang/my friends" (1st and 3rd person) to those who are curious, that's asian language alright.

and to me, my translation for Cloud's "WE" lines were always "tayo" and "natin". if only the japanese language has different trans. for the word "we" too then we could settle these lines. XD