Some goodies from the FFVII Citadel for you all....

Don't forget to check out the relationship chart!

A bit of commentary too, just so you get my opinions and such. (Seb is a cloti btw)

Inspiral Proxy: i think everyone is gonna end up arguing over the ultimania anyway
Sebandthemonkey: i guess. I was just happy that it didn't say either way, it remained neutral (in regards to clouds feelings at least. It did shit on people that said Aeris didn't feel anything for Cloud) I just don't want to talk love triangles now
Inspiral Proxy: notice the pink line from tseng too?
Sebandthemonkey: from tseng to aeris, yeah
Inspiral Proxy: yeh
Sebandthemonkey: hers is orange back
Inspiral Proxy: thats creepy, that means tseng has always had a crush on her maybe?
Sebandthemonkey: maybe
Inspiral Proxy: you know what...
Sebandthemonkey: notice how theres a pink one from lucrecia to hojo and not one back? thats a bit weird
Inspiral Proxy: i think that cloud not loving any girl in return kinda also confirms that cloud stays single at the end of AC
Sebandthemonkey: yeah, maybe
Inspiral Proxy: yeh.. like he thought of her as a guinea pig maybe, there goes my theory that his madness was caused by her loss
Sebandthemonkey: shera doesn't love cid either
Sebandthemonkey: and poor rude
Inspiral Proxy: which is like whoa
Inspiral Proxy: lol, im surprised rude likes anyone
Inspiral Proxy: i didnt think he was serious about tifa
Sebandthemonkey: well he's all stoic. You never know. Like that chelsea girl
Inspiral Proxy: lol
Sebandthemonkey: i also want to know why Cloud's mom isn't in it

What exactly are the colors supposed to mean? :unsure: I don't see a key.

And what are the words? Perhaps Wilhelm would translate for us.

*nods*

Seb tried to work it out, he says...

"Also the arrow is a kind of murky green/grey. You'll see a similar one between Cid and the Shinra group (or to Palmer explicitly, I forget), one from Cloud to the blue area around the original AVALANCHE members and one from Gast to Shinra so again I imagine Greeny grey arrows are to represent employment relationships or simply working for people. Orange is a close friendship I'm guessing (e.g. between Cloud and Tifa and Cloud and Zack). The pink indicating feelings of love or attraction, Red indicating marriage and/or parentage and then blue arrows which...indicate something or other."

I'm sorry that I'm not much of a help with this. :/

Loved your LT explanation drawing in the forum, btw, DH. :lol:

It looks like the pink arrows symbolise romantic interests (Tifa > Cloud, Aerith > Cloud, Rude > Tifa, Tseng > Aerith etc.). I find it amusing that Reno, the supposed playboy of the Turks, has no pink arrow protruding from him at all.

And aww, even though I always had a hunch... but now it's confirmed Jessie had a crush on Cloud! :fangirl:

Orange arrows probably symbolise close/general relationships (Barret > Marlene, Reno <-> Rude etc.) I predict the arrow between Cloud and Tifa would say "childhood friends", but the arrow from Cloud to Aerith makes me curious. "Bodyguard", maybe?

And it looks like grey-green arrows indicate former/current employment.

I would also, just like Seb, like to know why Cloud's mummy wasn't included in the chart. xO

[EDIT] Damn, DH beat me to it. :sweat:

Aww, thanks Lynn, I was hoping it would get a giggle out of someone. :)

Also something else that interests me, who's the lady above Tifa's head? I don't remember ever seeing Tifa's mom at all in the game and why is the lady also linked to Sephiroth?

Puzzling indeed.

Thank you DH :huggle:

Hmmm Aerith has a pink line going to Zacks as well. But he has no line going to her. Weird.

And as Lynn pointed out the orange arrow between Cloud and Tifa is two way whilst it's a one way from Cloud to Aerith.

And lawl @ the pink arrow going from Tseng to Aerith. Tseng you don't slap woman you love you silly :cloud:

I think this chart will make a happy C_G ;)

I was just wondering about that as well! I don't think we've ever seen Tifa's mother... could that be her father? Although that doesn't look like a man, I suppose it would be hard to tell from the sprites.

My other theory is that it's Johnny, but I don't remember him looking like that at all!

I do wish Nomura had taken the time to do even brief sketches of the sprites, though. I would've loved to see Ifalna in full drawing.

One of my friends knows a little Japanese. I IM'ed her the link to the chart and she says that though she can't read most of it, the text that points from Cloud to Aerith is "Bodyguard something" and that the arrow from Aerith to Cloud means "like or love" but she's not too sure because the text is hard to read.

I don't want to ask more of her right now because she's in class ^^;

Edit - Lynn you guessed right! :D

^Thank you muchly, Azumi! And thank you to your friend too! :huggle:

I get a warm feeling in mah heart that SE still acknowledges the whole bodyguard relationship between the two. Shows that it means so much more than mere initial flirtations. :cleris:

Hey, you're right, FB! With Cloud it was expected, what with the neutrality of the LT and all, but Zack and Aerith were always thought to have some reciprocative romantic relationship.

Lots of one-way loves going on around here, eh? :whistle:

I found it sad that Lucrecia loves Hojo, but he doesn't love her back. I'm guessing she was willing to give up her baby because of him, and to have Hojo not even care a smidgen... :sad:

I think that's her father, who was killed by Sephiroth.

Lynn - Yeah :blink:

Cloud and Zacks what do you have to say for yourselves?

Cloud " ... "
Zack " *slicks back hair*

Cloud I could take that to mean *anything* you know.
And don't think you'll distract me that way Zacky boy :P

**

Anyone else think Aerith's profile picture is absolutely gorgeous? :aeris: :wub:

*draws pink line between Barret and Tifa* ;)

That's all really cool! It is strange that Zack doesn't have a line going back to Aerith...

No one has a two sided love though, so who knows. And Yuffie isn't interested in Cloud at all it seems.

Wow, thank you, DH! :huggle:

I think the man besides Tifa is Zangan...

And Cloud and Tifa share the "close friendship" line, so I think it proves Cloud doesn´t feel any type of "love feelings" towards Tifa; they are only close friends, after all :whistle:

EDIT-->> Oh, you meant the man who is OVER Tifa ^^UU... I think he´s her father, too... I don´t know :ermm:

I think I get what the blue line means now, it's like a "cause and effect" indication.

Shinra pointing to Aeris cos they were after her
Scarlet pointing to Dyne and Barret cos she directly ordered men to shoot them
Shinra pointing at Dyne because he agreed to power up the reactor.
Cloud and Sephiroth... yeh.

And you're more than welcome FB and Aerith_kun. :huggle:

Edit: Holy crap! Did anyone else notice that Barret and Tifa are in a darker blue box together seperate from the rest of Avalanche? I guess that means they were living together in FFVII! XDXD

:wub:

I actually think it's probably because they're in both groups, so the darkness is the overlapping, but I would like to think differently! :lol:

So it´s confirmed that they have been living together since the beginning of FFVII, like we thought xDDD

I think this relationship chart is stablished (more or less) at the beginning of the game. Although there are things like the close friendship shared between Cloud-Zack and Cloud-Tifa, which is demostrated later in the story, there are others which evolution with the advance of the game, like the Elena-Tseng relationship, or the Cid-Shera´s, too, which don´t end like this relationship chart says... Just my opinion ^^

EDIT-->>

I don´t think so, because Cloud is a member of Avalnche, too, and he isn´t inside of it :lol:

(RE)EDIT-->>
I have noticed that Edelmyra has a link to Aeris, but Aeris doesn´t have a link to her O.o... I´m thinking the unilateral arrows aren´t "established"... like if some of this relationships could "evolution", change or something during the game... I don´t know :unsure:

*has completely melted to goo at Zack's l337 hair-slicking sk33lz*

Sorry, can't help you with the interrogation there, FB! :sweat:

And yes, I love that portrait of Aerith! And Cloud's too, in fact. I think those look a lot better than their full-body official artwork. Especially Aerith's. Her bangs look softer in this one. :wub:

Good eye, DH! I was wondering what that blue line might indicate...

Much as I'd like to believe that, Aerith_kun :lol: I think it's meant to cover the "original" AVALANCHE too-- hence why the box covers Jessie, Biggs and Wedge. Then the lighter box covers the "new" AVALANCHE, which includes Cloud since he was a new recruit in the beginning of the game. And since Barret and Tifa are part of both, overlapping ensues.

But it's fun to think it could've been because they live together. :whistle:

I also noticed that Aerith and Ifalna get their own little green Cetra box, and it looks like Sephiroth and Zack are together in a grey SOLDIER box.

I think so too... or maybe it's just my wishful thinking that Cid and Shera DO love each other, dammit. :P

[EDIT]

The arrow also has a little note attached to it, though, so maybe it says something like "adopted mother of" or something like that? Then it wouldn't need an arrow from Aerith to Elmyra.

The same type of arrow points from Barret to Marlene.

I have a feeling the orange lines mean something like "cares about". There's orange lines between Shera and Cid, RedXIII and Bugenhagen, and between Barret and Marlene. So I think the orange lines mean something more like "cares about".

I agree that these seem like at the beginning of the game, because of the blue line between Cid and Shera.

The green lines seem to indicate employment.

Well, it seems right of this form ^^... But it doesn´t change my thoughts of Tifa living with Barret at the beginning of FFVII :whistle:

At least we know he put her name to an airship :lol: (Sierra=Shera)... And Tseng and Elena were going to have a date before he was stabbed by Sephiroth´s katana, sooo ^^U...

O.O... Now I can see it... Thank you, Lynn :)

But it´s reforcing my idea of unilateral arrows can mean a posibility of change or evolution in this relationship... Look:
Sephiroth<-->Cloud (hate each other, it seems)
Zack<-->Cloud (close friendship)
Tifa<-->Cloud (idem)
I think between this characters all is written. We all know Cloud and Sephiroth hates each other during ALL the game. We all know Zack and Cloud have shared a close friendship; and we all (well, all not, but it isn´t the case ^^U) that Tifa and Cloud share the same type of relationship at the middle/end of the game (I don´t think Cloud showed a lot of friendship towards Tifa at the beginning -_-). It´s STABLISHED with the arrow pointing at both sides. But other relationships, like Tseng-Elena, Cid-Shera (or Cloud-Aeris, hehe :P ) CAN change during the game. And their links aren´t established like the others. I think it´s a great difference between Cloud-Tifa relationship and Cloud-Aeris relationship. Tseng-Aeris, for example, are linked in the same form that Cloud-Aeris, but it´s the point... We can´t know for sure if Tseng moved on during the game. He BEGINS to do it with Elena, but it isn´t sure 100%... Aeris and Cloud relationship is complicated; like always has been. At least it doesn´t seem stablished like the Cloud-Tifa one :P

It´s my theory. It doesn´t mean that it´s right; who knows ^^UU...

heheh, i find it hilarious that Cloud had 3 women going!!!

Hmmm i see Aeris loves Cloud, but Cloud only fees cose friendship with her??? Umm i think theres a colour mis-print, i think its supose to be pink instead of orange! :lol:

Of course they wont put who he likes, same reason why they never comfirm the love triangle! The light blue seems to be FFVII main/playable characters, while the darker blue is Avalanche. I don't consider (and it seems they don't either) the FFVII gang as apart of 'avalanche', and Cloud never joins them, he only helps them out in one (or two - since Tifa convinced him to stay for another) missions for cash. And I think Barret does live with Tifa in the beginning, since Marlene is already familiarized with the bar enough to take over the shift. :P Then again, I think all of Avalanche stayed at the bar as a hideout..

EDIT: Oh yeah, you gotta love that loong pink line from Rude to Tifa xD I love that part of the game! When they discuss who they like.

Awww... Where's Mukki??? He's supposed to hold the fourth pink arrow that points to Cloud?

Who Cloud loves is open to interpretation, you have to find it for yourself, Nomura, Kitase, Nojima won't say it, even worst a relationship chart. They are just stating the obvious, in there.

Notice that it appears the label on Aeris's pink arrow towards Cloud is the same as Tifa's, so Aeris loves him just as much as Tifa. And that label is different that Aeris's pink line towards Zack, do we know what that line says?

Hmm, I believe that the sign that both Aerith and Tifa share says that they love Cloud. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the print for Zack from Aerith is probably something like, "First love" or something. :unsure:

wow, interesting indeed!!! I wonder who are those faceless people linked to Barret.... :huh:

Bwahahaha! Victory is mine! :lmao:

CG - 34123432
The rest of the fandom - 0

:P

That's a real interesting way to look at it, Aerith_kun! I see what you mean-- there are the established relationships, almost static in their nature, such as the constant antagonistic relationship between Sephiroth and Cloud.

And then there are the dynamic relationships, that have a chance to grow (and did grow during the game). Cid/Shera is the best example of a working relationship turning into something romantic. Tseng/Elena also grew. So, by virtue of similar patterns, that means Cloud/Aerith also grew into something romantic~ :whistle:

:lmao: Poor Mukki, so unloved. :(

Except by Cloud.

:lmao: :lmao: I saw that too! I thought that was ADORABLE. Neither hail nor loooong arrows shall come between Rude's crush on the lurvely Tifa!

D'oh! Why didn't I think of that? ...Yeah, that's probably it. Zack would be Aerith's "first love", but I'm inclined to believe Zack has had many loves before that. :lol:

I think that's his wife (I can't remember her name for the life of me). There's a faceless person linked to Dyne too, whom I'm guessing is also his wife and mother of Marlene.

Wow, what a chart! I love it! The pink line from Rude to Tifa was one of the first things I looked for, LOL..... :lmao: We all have to make sure THAT's there! Aww, there are so many one-sided relationships/crushes/loves going on in FF7! I don't think that there's a pink line that has two arrows.... I was a bit surprised that there was no pink arrow pointing from Zack to Aeris, but I already expected the absence of one from Lucrecia to Vincent...

Yup, the one from Aerith to Zack says "First Love". :)

It's nice how Cloud's arrow to Aerith says he's her bodyguard, thus showing that he's extremely protective over her, but the arrow with Tifa just says they're "childhood friends". :lmao:

I still say the orange lines mean something like "cares about". Then the chart would indicate that Cloud cares about both Aerith and Tifa. It just wouldn't specify in what way Cloud cares about each of them. ;)

I prefer thinking of the orange lines that way than to say Cloud felt nothing for either one of them! :(

We know that both Aerith and Tifa are important to Cloud in some way, and that therefore Cloud cares about both of them in some way. Remember the scene in AC when Sephiroth asks Cloud what's important to him?

The orange line meaning "cares about" would make more sense in other relationships, too, if you ask me. There's an orange line between Aerith and Tseng, for example. They weren't really friends, but we do know that Aerith cared about Tseng because she cried when they found Tseng injured in the Temple of Ancients. We also know that Shera cared about Cid long before his feelings for her changed, so it would make sense for an orange line between Shera and Cid to mean "cares about".

EDIT: I PM'd Wilhelm to see if he could give us more information. He's having trouble seeing the Japanese text on his monitor, so he says he will translate when he gets his copy of the Ultimania. I also asked him to look for a key in the book, since there's none on the scan. He doesn't think that the relationships are those at the start of the game, since he points out that Marlene and Aerith are both shown to be foster children. Here's Wilhelm's reply to me:

Very cool info! :D I must admit, I'm alittle overwelmed by it all...All this FF7 stuff. SE's milking it!

its extrange: aeris loves zack but zack doesnt feel NOTHING?? maybe its because he is dead in the begining of the game so he cant feel nothing for her...and about aeris- cloud, tifa-cloud,both of them loved him but cloud seems he only felt friendship. I agree with aerith-kun!! tifa and cloud are friends, but aeris and clouds friendship could become love!!

something funny: sephiroth and aeris dont :o hate each other!in fact, they dont feel anything!

Not sure... I mean Jessie died, but her line to Cloud is quite secure.

Anyways:

Glad to know the name of Barret's wife (Mina) and Dyne's wife is Elenor

Mina is a cute name, thanks for letting us know Anti-R. :)

Wasn't it Myrna in FFVII or something like that?

Yes, I remember it being Myrna too... Can anyone clarify this?

Yep, it's Myrna originally:

Although it could be like the whole Shera/Sierra thing.

I thought so too! It's great that the whole "bodyguard" subplot wasn't just forgotten in the game in the light of Sephiroth and all the other developments.

I agree that the orange lines are general "care about" relationships, such as the ones between Barret and Marlene and Elmyra and Aerith. They're certainly not antagonistic, but more like general relationships, with the little footnotes on each arrow to explain further.

Indeed, Aerith was just an inconvenience to him. :sweat:

Sephiroth and Aerith not hating one another doesn't surprise me at all. I never thought that Sephiroth hated Aerith. He just got rid of her because she was capable of blocking his goals. I also think he did it because it would hurt Cloud. After all, killing Aerith actually helped her summon Holy, so why else would Sephiroth kill her? And why else would Sephiroth wait for Cloud to get there before killing Aerith? Sephiroth arrived before Cloud got there.

Also, Aerith simply hated what Sephiroth wanted to do to the Planet. She never expressed hatred for him as a person, though.

It also doesn't surprise me that Zack felt nothing for Aerith. Aerith always said that he was a ladies man, and she thought that he had found another girlfriend. That shows that Aerith wasn't very confident about his feelings for her. I rather like it - doesn't the idea that Zack felt nothing for Aerith destroy the idea of Zeris? :lmao:

Also, why isn't there a pink line from Cloud to Tifa if he used to have a crush on her? Aerith shows a pink line to Zack, since he was her first love. If Cloud used to have a crush on Tifa, shouldn't there be a "first love" pink line between he and Tifa, too? I disputed whether or not Cloud actually had a crush on Tifa as a child in this thread: A Crush on Tifa? The relationship chart either indicates that Cloud never did have a crush on Tifa as a child, OR that his feelings had no importance. The relationship chart seems to have thrown the idea of Cloud's childhood crush on Tifa out the window. :lmao:

...You know, I wanted to say that the same could be said for Cloud to Aerith-- a pink arrow from Aerith to Cloud, but none pointing back-- thereby indicating a similar conclusion can be made about Cleris.

But upon checking the chart once more, I just realised there's NOTHING from Zack to Aerith. Not even a general orange arrow saying 'former boyfriend/girlfriend' or anything like that. And considering they took the time to note Jessie's crush on Cloud, something arguably less important than Zack and Aerith's relationship...

Whereas Cloud gets a 'bodyguard' arrow pointed to Aerith! Even though it was only brought up, what? Twice in the whole game?

Hmmmm. :shifty:

Moral of the story? Don't try to argue with Anastar. :bow:

I can't even buy the idea that it wasn't 'important' enough to note. Look at all the other comparatively less important relationships that the chart did note: Jessie's crush on Cloud, Rude's crush on Tifa (the arrow for which took a looooong route, but it's still there!), Elena's crush on Tseng-- all these don't play nearly as important a role in the plot as Cloud's childhood crush on Tifa, yet they're there.

Heck, they included his bodyguard deal with Aerith, and I'd say that gets much less mention in the game then his and Tifa's childhood together.

There's plenty of empty space above Cloud's box. I'm sure it wouldn't have been any trouble to put in one teeny arrow about his very important crush on Tifa that, apparently to some people, is his driving force throughout the game. And yet there's none. Curiously.

...Although I still believe he had a childhood crush on Tifa. :P But this chart does get you thinking.

Actually, it was never said in the game that Cloud had a childhood crush on Tifa. That's only an interpretation of two sentences said by Cloud during the Lifestream Event. When examined, those statements by Cloud may only be referring to his guilt that he let her fall at the bridge rather than meaning he had a crush on her. If he had a crush on her, why did Tifa have to ask Cloud three times before he agreed to the Promise? If he really had a crush on Tifa, I think he would've jumped at the opportunity, especially since Aerith only had to offer him a Date to do essentially the same thing. :lmao:

The idea of Cloud being Aerith's bodyguard actually came up way more often than anything about a "childhood crush" on Tifa. As I said before, there are only two sentences that can be interpreted to mean that Cloud had a crush on Tifa, and those sentences may actually be referring to his guilt over letting her fall at the bridge.

There were many more references to Cloud being Aerith's bodyguard. Aerith asked him to be her bodyguard in the Church, and he agreed. Cloud rescued her from the Turks in the Church, too. Then Cloud flirted with Aerith about being her bodyguard in the Shinra jail, and Aerith reminded him about the Date. Cloud helped Aerith escape from Hojo's lab, the Shinra building, and rescued her from the Turks in the Church as her bodyguard. Cloud went to see Elmyra in order to figure out how to help Aerith when she was captured by the Shinra. He also said that he was there for Aerith in Cosmo Canyon. He also went to help her in the Forgotten City. Cloud's protection of Aerith as well as their Date all comes under the idea of him being a bodyguard.

Cloud also said as they approached the Northern Crater that he was fighting for a "personal memory". The passage from Prelude of Maiden Over the Star seems to indicate that the "personal memory" was Aerith. Cloud also mentioned that Aerith was one of the reasons he was going after Sephiroth after Aerith's death in the Forgotten City. Once Bugenhagen explained the workings of Holy to Cloud in Disk Two, Cloud vowed to Aerith that he would "do the rest". Cloud also said that he wanted to free Aerith's spirit from Sephiroth's control as they headed to the Northern Crater. So Cloud continued to protect Aerith's spirit even after her death, as well as helping Aerith cast Holy. So the idea of him being her bodyguard essentially continued in Disks Two and Three.