What are your opinions about men and women being equals? I don't think it's true. And I do not say this in opinion but in truth. Men and women are just made differently. Women aren't as strong as men, physically. And women are more loving and gentle, while men are more prideful and sometimes shy.
Men and women are complete opposites and both have different roles in relationship that just come naturally. So I do not believe that men and women are equal, for how can two different things be the same?

I agree with men being physically stronger. When some people say something about being sexist about men can do certain things better than woman (ie sports) I think there is a biological difference so it can't be helped. As for women being more loving and men being more prideful...that goes all into the nature/nuture debate. Physical qualities are told in our genes, mental qualities are speculated on. I personally believe in nuture over nature, but there has been a lot of evidence of nature over nuture in the past.

I dunno about the physical strength thing...most of our stronger massage therapists are women. That might just be due to training and conditioning though. :D Generally speaking though, in most cases, probably not.

But in society, no. In many societies, men have more power. In some societies, the women are the rulers, etc etc.

As for women being more emotional and gentle, etc...that's a nature/nurture thing, like Onigiri said. That's like assuming all women have the maternal instinct when they don't.

Biologically, men and women can't be equal. But this inequality shouldn't be seen as a disadvantage. Men and women are formed differently for the sake of our survival. :D For example, if women had manly bodies, it would be pretty difficult for them to give birth.

However, when it comes to law or human rights and such, men and women should be treated more or less equally.

I think the question is more are men and women of equal value?

We're not equal, that's for certain. That doesn't mean one is better than the other, they just have different inequalities.

But are we of equal value as people and citizens of the species? Yes, certainly, there is nothing to suggest the opposite other than rednecks and 70 year old conservatives.

I really have to wonder why you'd say a thing like this, Nevi. Are you so sure of yourself? Are you so convinced that your view isn't just opinion? :unsure:

Anyway, in my opinion - yes and no. There are inequalities - the way testosterone and oestrogen affect the brain are bound to make a few primal emotional differences between both sexes. As for whether men are stronger, I'll concede to that, given their upper-body strength (though women endure pain better). It's rather difficult to tell objectively though (I've known a few women who wouldn't have any trouble in a fight with a man), given the different kinds of upbringing boys and girls have, and the sort of encouragement they recieve (brings the nature vs. nurture argument back). It also depends on the physical qualities of the parents. But this aspect of physical difference doesn't strike me as bad - it's the way we're formed, and just because men and women aren't the same doesn't make them unequal. ^_^

Yes. Gender shouldn't turn anyone into a second-class citizen.

But like Inuyatta said, in practice this differs. Not every society practices gender-equality. But in a perfect world, men and women certainly would be considered as having equal value.

I think this is pure myth. I've yet to see any proof of women being inherantly gentler than men. Yes, we often express aggression differently to men, but we feel aggressive urges all the same, even from very early ages (think of all those nasty little schoolgirl power games). Women can be proud, frustrated, cruel, manipulative, greedy, angry, cold, ambitious, vicious, ruthless, depraved and so on just as much as men can. Emotionally, I find men and women to be completely equal - we can express these emotions differently, but no emotion is gender-specific. Women also often expres aggression through violence - women hurt other people, women beat up other people, are serial killers, women are child abusers, women can kill their children or babies, women are murderers, women can aid a partner in a violent crime, women join their lovers in torture, women can domestically abuse their spouses, women can kill people or patients in their care...women can be psychopaths, terrorists or violent criminals. Yes, women can be very gentle and loving, true (so can men), but as individuals. Goodness isn't a gender-trait. It's not a trait that applies to all women, and women who subvert this idea of a gentle and innocent female aren't just defects of some kind - female violence isn't just involuntary or the result of mental illness or provocation. Women are naturally agressive, just as much as men can be, and women can be dangerous and destructive.

I don't hate women. :lol: I just think we need to understand that we're not all sweetness and light, and docile and maternal. Emotionally, women are men's equals in every respect, and I find avoiding this to be damaging. We women need to be responsible for our own behaviour.

Very true, Inuyatta. ^_^

I don't really see this...there's a rich variety of relationship roles out there, do we really fall into certain binary roles naturally? And what are these roles? And in what way are men and women opposites? I've always found that after scraping the surface and getting past a few nature/nurture differences, at the core we're very, very similar. Of course we're not all the same, but what I mean is every individual is different. We all have depth and complexity and can't be shuffled off into a resctrictive group. I've known women to indulge in "masculine" behaviour and men to indulge in "feminine" behaviour (just as much as men indulge in "masculine" behaviour and women indulge in "feminine" behaviour). It's all just human behaviour, when you get down to it.

Basically, I don't buy that "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" talk at all. :lol:

Personally, I think it depends on the individual...if a man or woman has a very dominiant personality, they may be likely to be attracted to someone more compliant, mild and submissive, for example. It's all down to what the individual finds attractive - some people can go from one relationship to another and note pratically no difference in the roles they play, whilst for other people, no two of their relationships are ever the same. I don't believe in a default role. :cleris:

My personal view/answer to that would be to repeat what I said earlier: that not being the same doesn't necesarrily make two things inequal. ^_^

We women need to be responsible for our own behaviour.

This is why I hate women who hit men and complain if a man hits them back. I'm not saying either of them should be hitting each other. But you have to be repsonsible for the consequences of your actions, regardless of your gender.

Yes, exactly. :cheer:

Women and men shouldn't be hitting each other, but women need to be responsible for their own behaviour. We can't go around lashing out at men aggressively whenever we feel like it (if we're angry, frustrated, etc) and not expect any retaliation just because we're women. It's not alright to lash out at a person just because of the stereotype we all have in our minds that women are "weak" and couldn't hurt a man if they hit them. That's not the point and that still doesn't make it alright to lash out in the first place. You have to accept the consequences of your own aggressive behaviour. If you hit someone, there's a high chance of being hit back. Take some responsibility!

A white, middle-class woman is a blessed creature. She can use so many cultural stereotypes and myths about female behaviour to get away with a great deal. -_-

Hyper-Ballad

A white, middle-class woman is a blessed creature. She can use so many cultural stereotypes and myths about female behaviour to get away with a great deal. sleep.gif

HB, are you saying you do such things?

:unsure:

You know I'm a woman, Raist, but how can you tell if I'm white and middle-class? :lol:

But I am, so you're right. :cheer:

Anyway, what I meant by that is that a white, middle-class woman can use social stereotypes in order to get off lighter. I said that these women were blessed, but I meant it very negatively. I also meant it's possible (as it has happened), not that it's default behaviour. It's also based on inaccurate class and race bias, which unfortunately, some people use to their advantage. I'm just saying that society seems to find it much easier to excuse female violence - women who murder or mutilate their ex-lovers, women who assist their partners in various crimes, women who kill their children to "get back" at the father who left them... It's a stereotype that if you are a white, middle-class woman you will not commit any extreme crime unless you were coerced, had no other option, or were extremely disturbed. It's a stereotype that exists because society has had a hard time accepting the natural aggressive implulse within women - for a woman to be violent, something must be wrong with her that seperates her from all other women, etc...

And sadly it's a class and race specific stereotype. It's very, very wrong, but more people think of the white-middle class woman as gentle and docile, wheras working-class women or women of another race are somehow more violent. It's grossly innaccurate and shows terrible bias, but it's been in place for many years, and some women have played up to that in order to establish a more compassionate motive for themselves.

I'm mostly using examples from the UK and the US though. I have no idea what crime statistics in Australia are like. :unsure:

Anyway, that's what I meant by my comment. I certainly didn't mean to say that all women of that background act similarly. :no:

Hyper-Ballad

for a woman to be violent, something must be wrong with her that seperates her from all other women, etc...

I couldn't agree more...I mean...not that, you know, a white woman must be mentally disturbed to be violent, I mean I, you know, agree with your argument...ah...

Why are you looking at me like that?!?!?!? :unsure:

On a more serious note, I agree. I do look down upon men hitting women but not from a gender standpoint. Rather I look at it in similar fashion to a large man hitting a small man. It is a matter of strength. I have no issue with the average man picking a fight with a female bodybuilder or martial artist. Go for your life pal. But an average man hitting the average woman is akin to a large man hitting a much weaker one. I'm sure you'll take this solely as evidence of fact regarding the strength of the two sexes and nothing more. I know that males being stronger doesn't make us better human beings...there are other reasons for that... :whistle:

I have no idea what crime statistics in Australia are like.

Eh, fairly average for a western country. Less gang violence though. However I remember reading somewhere that we have the most assaults without death per capita than any other country. I'm somewhat proud of that :D

You know I'm a woman, Raist, but how can you tell if I'm white and middle-class?

Let's call it male intuition. :D

You know, it's funny, growing up, the men around here never seemed to have a problem with hitting women, and I didn't mind that (Well, of course I minded, but hey, they fought with me just like they would have another guy...) But for some reason, they all got offended when I fought back.

Actually, no, they got offended when I floored their asses. :unsure:

In any case, I don't think it's right to hold a double-standard where guys can't hit women, but women can hit men. Actually, it'd be better off if no one hit anyone, but if humans were all that smart, I doubt we'd have so many issues to wade through. XD

Actually, it'd be better off if no one hit anyone, but if humans were all that smart, I doubt we'd have so many issues to wade through. XD

I'm tempted to post "Imagine" lyrics right now...

Whoo! I almost forgot about this thread! :lol:
I think the reason men and women are not equal is what makes each party wonderful.
Now I didn't start this meaning if their equal status wise.

Equal/=The same
Men and women ARE inherently different, and that's to create a balance. Each relationship and family requires a certain amount of different atributes, and generally each man and woman can contribute those atributes. Of course, not every single man is tough as nails and not every single woman is kind and nurturing, but generally speaking that's how it goes.

I believe that both genders are equal, but...well, just not the same! :lol: Women have strengths and men have strengths, there's no reason why we have to be the same in everything.

Very well put, Sefie! :yes:

NOTE: I'm an old-fashioned person so a lot of the things I say may seem "outdated."

Women and men are not equal.

What differentiate women from mens,beyond their bodies?
Men are stronger.. and women,i don't know.. they are more lovely,maybe because they get pregnant, they spand more time with their children (i don't know,MAYBE it's because of it). But of course some men and women are different from the "rest".
I'd say.. we can be different,i guess.. but i get angry when some men come to me or another women with prejudice,this is not acceptable,and of course I'm not in favor of people male chauvinist and feminist.

I was seeing in google some male chaubinist jokes (that's horrible):

"In the beginning, God created the earth and rested. Then God created Man and rested. Then God created Woman. Since then, neither God nor Man has rested."

"What's worse than a Male Chauvinist Pig? A woman that won't do what she's told."

"Q: How many chauvinist does it take to change a light bulb?
A: None, the chick can wash in the dark."

Ridiculous,hum?

Gosh, those jokes are dumb. Not even funny. Well the first one is funny from a woman's point of view.