This poll is part of my attempt to clean up the thread discussing homosexuality.

So, let us all know what you think, and why. ^_^

And on-topic, my answer is No. I'll try to provide some reasons/further explanation later, but I'm a bit rushed. :shutup:

I can't comprehend how people can't think there's a God. Just look around us, look at what a wonderful place the world is! All of this couldn't pop up by chance! People have such a misconception of God! It makes me so ticked!

I'd say yes.

However, my arguments for the existence of God for the most part never existed and, where they did, are very rusty. As bad as I might be at it, I think I'm better at defending attacks against the existence of God (defensive apologetics) then presenting arguments for His existence (offensive apologetics)...on the Internet, at least.

It might be because it's 5 in the morning but,

What does this mean? All you've got it faith or what? It's nagging at my tired mind

Yes, I do believe that there's a God. I can't explain it in a rational way, though. All I can say for now is that I believe that He exists because of significant personal experiences that involves Him. :)

I voted no, perhaps someday I will explain why. ^_^

My faith in a belief in God is somewhat... quarter-full. The Bible confuses me at times, but I continue believing because of - like Zhakeena - personal experiences. ^_^

yup yup!! ^_^

Just looking around at the natural things, the trees, birds and wildlife. Like Nevi said, how can there NOT be a God? :lol:

The Bible also. Of all the religios books in the world, the Bible is the only one with the Gospels. :)

No, I don't think there is. I admire those who have faith in him, but I myself do not. With the things I've seen happen in my life and others, my belief in a God no longer exists. And I don't believe that we just can't comprehend God's reasons for allowing the things that have happened. I just do not believe a God exists at all.

The world is full of crap, and you know it.

There is nothing but

- wars
- death, rapes, violence

any bit of happiness we have is always tainted some way or another.

I have yet to see someone come up with reasonable evidence to prove God existed.

I don't need to believe, I never will do.

The whole Christian/Catholic religion ticks me off more then anything.

I can't really say myself if I believe in god or not. I'm sorta in the middle(undecided), you could say.

Pretty much for most of my life, my family(they're Catholic) has shoved religion down my throat. So much so, it made me rebel against it. I've been lectured by my grandmother about "God this... God that... God determines everything-" and I just don't like the idea of one force determining everything that is good or bad in life. For example, in a religous POV, homosexuality is bad and is viewed in God's eyes as a mortal sin and what not. I hate that! I don't know why God would view love amongst two people, his own 'children', as a sin. Then I hear people saying, "Oh, God loves all his children." If he loves us, then why can't he accept his all his childrens' differences? Believe me, I know how it feels to be loved, but not accepted for who I am. :( I'm not homosexual or bisexual, but I just resent the fact that a certain kind of love is viewed as a sin. Makes me think God is hypocritical. I can also understand how people can think that with all the violence and crimes in this world, there must not be a God. A God wouldn't allow such things to happen- God wouldn't have taken my uncle away... God wouldn't have let 9/11 happen... A God wouldn't have let death, war, rape, etc. happen... so... there must not be a God... I can understand this view, because I too have thought about this on many occasions.

At the same time, I can understand when someone says, "Look all around you. How can there not be a god?" Something in the back of my head says, 'Ok, maybe there is some kind of force that created everything... maybe there is a force that helped me gain my life... maybe there is a force behind that was able to create miracles, or create the moon, the stars, the sun, this universe...'

I'm doubtful in an existance in God, but at the same time, I'm doubtful there is no such existance of a higher force- a God... :unsure:

Nah.

It means that I've never really researched the brand of arguing accepted on the Internet for the existence of God. So my philosophical arguments and so forth either never existed or aren't very good now.

I agree with you, R_E. :wacko: I'm confused.

I feel... very sad for you Mrs.Loz. Haven't you ever been happy in your life?
You can't see the forest, for the trees. That means you can't see the full situation because your still inside it. Somethings may look bad for you but I know you can make it through. God isn't someone who likes to watch you trip and fall. He's a father, if you fall he'll pick you up and carry you. There's a story kinda like that by Mary Stevenson.

One night I dreamed I was walking along the beach with the Lord.
Many scenes from my life flashed across the sky.
In each scene I noticed footprints in the sand.
Sometimes there were two sets of footprints,
other times there were one set of footprints.

This bothered me because I noticed
that during the low periods of my life,
when I was suffering from
anguish, sorrow or defeat,
I could see only one set of footprints.

So I said to the Lord,
“You promised me Lord,
that if I followed you,
you would walk with me always.
But I have noticed that during the most trying periods of my life
there have only been one set of footprints in the sand.
Why, when I needed you most, you have not been there for me?”

The Lord replied,
“The times when you have seen only one set of footprints in the sand,
is when I carried you.”

I think this is the true nature of God.

Of course I have been happy. But with happiness, comes pain. Some sort of despair. Call me a pessimist.

Nice poem, but, it doesnt sit well with me.

I dont have a Lord.

If you say there's nothing to believe in... what do you turn to when things go wrong.
I remember my mother told me, when she got back from africa that all the women who had been raped, abused and treated like scum their entire lives said. They all said that they couldn't live without trusting God. Those people have had so many bad things happen to them and many of them had AIDs and were going to die but still they were all happy because they knew there was something to hold onto.

It shows great strength of character and optimism that those women could still be happy and trust in their God after everything that happened to them. :)

I know this question was meant for Mrs. Loz but I'm going to answer too. If things go wrong and I can't cope by myself, then I turn to my friends and family, because I know they will always support me in whatever way they can and help me through my problems. Their support and love is enough for me, and I know that they understand that I'll be there for them when they need me, too.

But what about times when there's no one there. I know there's times when I've felt all alone and I couldn't talk to anyone. I just trusted in God and I knew that everything would be okay.

Hmm. I've probably got the most...hard to understand belief on this.

I don't really think there is a deity out there, persay...more like a higher cosmic force. I mean, there really isn't a 'good' or 'evil' out there--those are more like labels and concepts that humans apply to situations in order to try and comprehend them. Frankly, it confuses me as well, but I feel I understand it, little by little.

Probably why I fit into a more Buddhist mindset.

And no, Buddhism is not an actual religion. It's an education, but through misguided practice, it came to be perceived as a religion.

But yes, what I mean by Buddhist mindset is that it's the goal of a Buddhist to learn all that you can while being compassionate and not causing suffering to others or themselves.

Eh...yeah, I'm gonna go back to the A/C stuff now. XD

Nevi, did you seriously use the argument-
'the world is pretty, so God is real'?

I believe in God and lets just leave it at that. This could get ugly...religious debates always do <_<

I believe in friends. Not so much family. I don't need a God. Not everyone does. I can live quite well without something like that.

1. God doesnt speak to you.
2. He doesnt listen.
3. He doesnt give advice.
4. He doesnt hug you.

IMO.IMO.

I always come online most of the time or just find something to do if I am ever feeling low.

Don't need a God.

Yes, but I probably think of God differently than the majority of other people. I don't think He sits up there and makes Judgements about the consequences for our sins and so forth. That's thinking of Him as a parental figure who loves you and disciplines you, which is fine, but I can't see God as being a separate, parental figure who "keeps us in line." :lol:

I believe that God is part of us, and that we are part of Him. You only have to look inside of yourself to find Him, because your spirit and consciousness are part of Him.

It's sorta like the Lifestream containing the consciousness and spirit of all lifeforms, and making up the consciousness of the Planet. Gaia is the greater spirit and consciousness made up of the combined spirit and consciousness of all lifeforms. Same with God. He's the combined spirit and consciousness of all lifeforms on this Planet, so we are all part of Him.

I'm an exception to that theory.

What's wrong with that arguement? :angry: It's good enough for me. ^_^ However, when it comes to "fairies" and "wonderlands" then that is the time to stop. -_-

Nevi, I have heard that story before, I have a poster of that on my bedroom door. ^_^

he does, through the Bible

he does, when you pray

He does, thought the Bible

Maybe not physically, but when I'm at my lowest, I can almost feel Him wiping away my tears. I can feel His gentle arms around me, Spiritually, and almost physically. ^_^

I'm studying Buddhism at school. ;) let's see...

Buddha taught 4 main things: Life is all suffering; suffering is caused by man's desires; man's desires can be made less by following an eight-fold path; and this path can be summed up in right thoughts and right deeds.

Buddhists believe in a type of Nirvana, a kind of Heaven. But this heaven, according to my school book, is in direct contrast with the Biblical Heaven.

However, over the centuries, Buddhism divided into two main branches, one branch, Mahayana, developed a concept of a heaven where you would be conscious, and Hinayana where they retained the early aspects of Buddha himself. (I'm guessing this is the opposite ;)) Hinayana believes in a lifeless heaven that Jesus Christ directly opposed in John 3:15-17.

Though Buddha meant well, that he wanted to help mankind, because of war, all he had to do was turn to God, and he would find peace. But he thought he was "enlightened", and so began a religion education.

What's the point of believing in God when at the end of the day, you have to go read a bible for help? -_-




Buddha taught 4 main things: Life is all suffering; suffering is caused by man's desires; man's desires can be made less by following an eight-fold path; and this path can be summed up in right thoughts and right deeds.


^ I agree thoroughly with that. I'd probably sign up with the Hinayana side ;)

AR, why do you insult the Mystic Elf, she loves you and just wants to help you, but you scorn her so :sad:

Oi...

First off, Nirvana is not a heaven, persay--more like an escape from the sufferings of life. They're still debating on what exactly it is.

Secondly, just because you read it in a book doesn't mean it's correct. Nor does it give you the right to deem what book is correct and what isn't.

Third, Siddhartha--DID NOT START A RELIGION! Siddhartha founded an education, a philosophy and passed along his teachings to whoever wished to learn. He did not declare himself a deity, nor did he claim he was related to one. The only reason Buddhism is considered a religion now is because people, over time, began to misinterpret the dharma and started to think that Siddhartha was a deity since he attained enlightenment.

So please, I'm sure you meant no offense, but do not talk about things you don't fully comprehend and then deem it 'wrong', 'incorrect' or otherwise. That's like me perusing the bible and then saying it's wrong because it doesn't agree with the texts and teachings I was brought up studying. It is not wrong, merely different. To state otherwise is merely being ignorant. Frankly, there's enough of it in the world, let's not go critiquing each other and saying what we believe is wrong, just merely agree to disagree.

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dharmadata/fdd43.htm <--this will give you a far better idea of what Nirvana truly is. It shouldn't be too hard to load, and I don't think I got many pop-ups.

But yeah, I wanted AerithR to get a big, meaty version about the concept of Nirvana than what she's given in her text books, but if anyone else is interested, by all means, browse away. :aeris:

Edit 2: http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/5minbud.htm <--This link is a five minute introduction to Buddhism, so yeah, if you're curious, this link has the gist of it.

Inuyatta, I wasn't trying to tell you about your own beliefs!! :huggle:

I was just telling you how I understood it, I'm sorry you took it the wrong way. :ok:

However, I don't really agree with some of the things on there, do you mind debating? I just want to say a few words. ^_^

Exodus 20:4-5 "You shall have no other gods before Me... you shall not bow down to them or serve them...

I know you say that Buddha is not a god or religion, but bowing before an idol, or an carved image is idolatry. Bowing before someone who isn't God is idolatrous. -_-

The Bible never changes. It is not different in countries, or in the way we should live or whatever. It commands us to worship God like that Bible tells us, and pray in the way the Bible says, etc. The penalty for changing God's Word is written here; Revelation 22:18-19 "For I testify to anyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add him to the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from this book of prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

So does Christianity. ^_^

Even though Buddhism teaches wisdom and understanding, all you have to do is look in the Bible for answers. It's funny really, Christianity isn't a "religion" either, it is a Faith or a Belief. Faith is an important part, and is applied everywhere. Even in Evolution, DQ. ;) Nobody has witnessed Evolution, I think. Has someone actually seen an animal change?

So, how do you really know what Nirvana is like? Only the Bible has a real concept of what Christianity is, it's all in that Bible, it is the only sure thing, the only "religion" or Faith, that has all the answers. ^_^

DQ, I'm sorry I dissed your Mystic Elf. :peace:

AR, if Bible is so perfect, why there be more than one?
And if you don't go learn about evolution and continue to spout junk, I will have to drop a giant brain filled with science on you, Seriously, go now!

And no, it's too late, you made the Mystic Elf cry, meanie :angry:

I believe in God no matter what others say.

:headbang:

Is this good enough change? :whistle:



There is plenty of physical evidence for evolution, AR. Seriously, I really think you don't properly grasp the theory of evolution, Aerith. But I think DQ provided you with a few links in another thread which might clear a few things up for you. Please do give them a read when you can, or do your own research, before you make comments like this - I'm afraid it's rather frustrating. ^_^

Yes, but were you there millions of years ago, Hyper? Did you actually see that animal change, I mean seen? Those are just pictures of what an animal might've looked like, just like pictures of what Jesus might've looked like. ^_^

I don't claim to know everything about evolution, I guess you know more than me, but you can't say that you can prove evolution by saying that you have witnessed it.

I'm sorry if I'm being frustrating. :huggle:

No problem. I'm sorry if I'm being too harsh. ^_^

What about the remains? The image I just posted isn't a vague example of what the predecessor of the horse might've looked like. We know that they actually existed. The way we know what these animals looked like is because their remains tell us. These are what tell us that the animal changed. The changes that occur in evolution aren't instantaneous; it's a very slow development over a great stretch of time which no-one can really witness. What we can do is observe the stages of change that have already occured.

Just because we can't witness evolution doesn't make it as intangible as a religious belief. There are scientific facts backing it up that can't be denied. It's often possible to prove that something took place with evidence rather than a witness - for example, a crime in which there are no eyewitnesses involved, and yet hard forensic evidence connecting a suspect to the scene of the crime at the time it took place. No-one might've seen this person commit the crime, and yet it can still be proven without a witness.

Neither do I. I'm hardly an expert, and we don't want you to go out there and learn all the ins-and-outs of the theory of evolution. But what DQ and I are trying to say is that we'd really appreciate it if you would do a little more research into the facts. We both seem to be getting the impression that you're misunderstanding a lot of the basics. It's not us ganging-up against you or anything, because you're a Christian or anything like that; we'd be more than happy to discuss evolution with you once you're in full possession of the facts. Knowing the facts doesn't mean you have to come over to our side, it just makes you better equipped to debate about the issue. ^_^

After all, you don't want DQ's giant brain filled with science to drop on you, right? :lol:

Hmm... you guys make me think too much. :P
Well, I've been thinking about this since I last posted here and I think I know what I believe in now...

I don't believe in god... at least not in the Christian or Catholic God. More so in a higher being/force which has no real label or name. Did that make sense? Oh well whatever... :ermm:

Of course it does! ^_^

There's a world of difference between being a religious person and a spiritual person, RE. Believing in a deeper meaning to life, or the existence of a higher power or unifying force doesn't make you a God-fearing person, or mean that you have to believe in God if you believe in anything like that. :huggle:

Awww... thanks, Hyper! :huggle:

Now, I just have to explain this to my family... when the time is right, that is. I know they're not really going to understand. I can just hear them now telling me they're going to make me go back to sunday school or get the idea of shipping me off to a Catholic Boarding School. <_<

point one: Wrong. Asians bow to each other all the time as a sign of respect, not subserviance. You took the bible too literally.

point two: Inaccurate. If the Bible is unchanging, why are there so many versions of it? A little bit is taken out and re-translated and re-interpreted each time.

Again, you cannot take the Bible and use it to define some other belief as wrong. You simply, cannot.

Christianity is considered a religion because there are actual icons to worship in that line of faith.

And lastly, no one really knows exactly what Nirvana is, same as no one really knows what Heaven, Hell, etc is like. Either way, you cannot say that the Bible is the unshakable truth for everyone and holds all the answers because it doesn't. It's great that you believe in something so strongly, but that doesn't necessarily make it truth. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

And now I'm off, my friend has returned from the hospital.

You know I don't see how there cannot be a god. I'll list some facts of things I've seen and have heard of from my friends and family.
Once my father was praying for a woman who wanted her foot to be healed so my father just laid his hand on the woman's foot and said, "In the name of Jesus, be healed." and he moved on down the prayer line. A moment later the woman started to shout and dance. Her foot was healed. My dad said, "Praise God! She got a touch!" But the paster leaned over to my father and told him that the woman had absolutely NO bones in her foot. After service the woman told my father that she felt a completely new skeleton grow back in her foot.

I once knew a man who was a pastor and one night during a service a woman and some men brought a coffin up on stage and the woman told the man to pray for her dead husband. He had been dead for a few days and this man just prayed silently for the man and he sat up, completely alive. They asked him if he was hurting anywhere and the man said, "My back and chest hurt." That was because his wife had been trying to give him CPR when she found him at home. The funny thing about that story was that the man was an organ donor and his heart, liver and some other organs had been removed. But here he was, fully alive and completely whole.

When my father was a child he had VERY bad asthma. When he was about 10 or 12 he and his family were singing and he started to have a bad asthma attack. His father told him to sit down. An old man walked up on stage and said to my grandfather, "Sir, can I pray for this boy?" My grandfather nodded and the man approached my father. He put his hand on my father's head and said, "Be healed, in the name of Jesus!" My dad got up and began singing again. Sense then he hasn't had one single asthma attack.

When I was younger I used to have very bad ear infections. I would scream at night because it hurt so bad. One night when I was lying in bed my ear started to ache and I thought to myself, "I'm sick of this!" So I put my hand over my ear and said, "Jesus heal me." And at that second the infection FELL OUT of my ear. It hasn't bothered my sense.

These are all just examples of healing. If there isn't a God how did that woman grow a foot back? How did that man come back from the dead? How did my father get rid of asthma? How did my ear infection stop? Without a God these things just don't happen.


Edit: Oh yeah, Inuyatta. There's only one version of the Bible. Just different translations. Some for people who speak different languages and some that are easier to read than the King James Version. Some people find the thee's and thou's hard to understand. :)

Err...according to bible.org...

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=663

:angel: