I found this really interesting article about the female 'stereotypes' Square uses.

Source: RPGamer

There have been previous discussion about this, but they were mentioned mainly for topics concerning Cleris or about the LT. I just wanted to know all or your thoughts on this matter. What do you think of the 'recycled' roles of the remale characters of Final Fantasy? I don't mind them at all; since, like the article says, Square just seems to pull them off no matter how much they re-use them.
I'm also especially interested on how Square may(or may not) incorperate their formula for future FF games, for example, Final Fantasy XII. What roles do you think that Ashe, Penelo, and Fran will play as?

Once they get rid of the damn bubbly girls, I'll be satisfied. :whistle:

Well... Yuffie's ok. Keep her.

I don't mind the formula because even if they (the characters) do full in a specific category they're still different. Also from reading decriptions on Ashe, Penelo, and Fran and from their appearence I think Square is staying true to their formula.
Ashe, Special
Fran, Damaged
Penelo, Bubbly

:lmao: I wrote up an essay on my LTD page that says almost this exact same thing!

Aerith and Cloud fit Square's idea of the perfect couple. How do I know this? Just take a look at the other canon couples from FFVIII, FFIX, and FFX... *Possible spoilers ahead*

* Final Fantasy VIII: Want to see Cloud and Aerith reinvented in another game? Then play FFVIII and take a look at Squall and Rinoa. This pairing is Cloud and Aerith remade. Squall and Rinoa give us a look into what might have happened if Aerith had not died.

-Squall is the brooding, dark soldier with a mysterious past. He is very much of an introvert and a loner, never opening up to anyone. Sound familiar? It should, because he acts exactly like Cloud. He even has the same job-- he is a mercenary (Squall was hired to protect and help out Rinoa; Cloud was hired by Aerith to be her bodyguard). Heck, he even carries an oversized weapon and has Limit Breaks that are reminiscent of Cloud's. During the course of the game, Squall begins to open up to Rinoa, much in the same way Cloud opened up to Aerith and was able to laugh and cry. Squall's moment of greatest emotional breakdown was when he thought he had lost Rinoa, saying to her:

"(Rinoa... You feel so cold. Are you going to be like this forever?)... Isn't there anything I can do?! You were so full of life. Now you don't even make a sound. I want to hear your voice...."

Compare that to Cloud's speech at Aerith's death (the moment of Cloud's greatest show of emotion)::

"... Aerith. This can't be real!" "Aerith is gone. Aerith will no longer talk, no longer laugh, cry... or get angry.... What about us? What are WE supposed to do? What about my pain? My fingers are tingling. My mouth is dry. My eyes are burning!"

-Rinoa is the cheerful, optimistic, and flirtatious daughter of a noted general. Just like Aerith, Rinoa is someone of importance, often referred to as "princess" (Aerith was the last of the Cetra, and the rightful heiress to the planet). I have heard CloTis attempt to compare Rinoa with Tifa. This is absolutely laughable, because Rinoa is nothing like Tifa. She has dark hair and eyes. That is the only way Rinoa resembles Tifa. In all other things, Rinoa is just like Aerith. Tifa was an introvert; Aerith and Rinoa are extroverts. Tifa could not express her feelings to Cloud; Aerith and Rinoa are outspoken and flirtatious with Cloud and Squall. Tifa was a physical fighter; Aerith and Rinoa are both mages. I am only scratching the surface here, too.

It is also interesting to note that Squall and Rinoa made their promise to each other in a flower field. Who are flowers associated with? Aerith, of course! Heck, she and Cloud are shown together in a flower field in Advent Children.

* Final Fantasy IX: Just like Cloud and Aerith are opposites, Zidane and Garnet are also opposites...

-Zidane is a cocky, flirtatious thief. Like Cloud, he has a mysterious past and later discovers that he is, in fact, an experiment. Zidane also has a polar opposite in the game, the silver-haired villain, Kuja. Sounds rather like Cloud and his polar opposite, the silver-haired Sephiroth, does it not? Zidane is a physical fighter, just like Cloud and Squall.

-Garnet/Dagger is a princess, someone of great importance, just like Aerith and Rinoa. She is one of the last of her kind, one of a mysterious race known as Summoners (Aerith was the last of the Cetra, another mysterious race). Garnet is quiet, yet strong-willed, a complete opposite of Zidane. She is also a princess while Zidane is, let's face it, a criminal. How opposite can you get??? Garnet is also a white mage, weak physically, but strong in mind and magic.

* Final Fantasy X: Tidus and Yuna are also opposites; Tidus's name/celestial objects refer to the sun while Yuna's name/celestial objects refer to the moon. Not only that, but their story is directly parallel to that of Cloud and Aerith...

-Tidus is an outspoken, cocky blitzball star who, like all FF heroes, has a mysterious past. He also becomes a Guardian for Yuna during her pilgrimage, vowing to protect her from her fate.

-Yuna is the daughter of a famous man, High Summoner Braska. Like Aerith, and all of the female FF heroines before her, she is someone of great importance. She is also a white mage and a Summoner, someone with unusual powers, just like Aerith (a Cetra), Rinoa (a Sorceress), and Garnet (also a Summoner). Yuna is traveling on a pilgrimage with her Guardians to Zanarkand, where she will obtain the Final Aeon. We later discover that Yuna will die upon summoning the Final Aeon. And yet she bravely moves forward, with the good of the world in mind. Sound familiar? Aerith willingly sacrificed herself for the good of the planet in FFVII.

It is only later in the game that Yuna realizes the truth about Tidus. He is merely a dream, to be lost when she destroys the enemy. And yet Yuna bravely presses on selflessly, much the way Aerith did in FFVII. Even when Tidus is lost to Yuna, she does not stop loving him and she does not stop looking for a way to be with him. Just like Cloud, at the end of FFVII, who expresses his desire to be reunited with Aerith, Yuna searches for a way to be with Tidus once again. Again, we see the idea of love beyond death being presented. CloTis may mock this, but it is something Square clearly believes in. It is amusing for me to see so many CloTis that are fans of TidusxYuna, but not of CloudxAerith. Hellooooo???? These two pairings are the same!

* Final Fantasy X-2: In this game, we see a continuation of Yuna's search for Tidus. Although he is gone, she continues to love him, hold his memory dear, and search for a way to be reunited with him. Also, in this game, we see another story that supports love beyond death. Shuyin and Lenne, while dead, still love one another, although they haven't seen each other for thousands of years. They are soul mates and their spirits persist in Spira, searching for one another. This is what love means, people. Loving someone forever is something that CloudxTifa fans are unable to comprehend. Their idea of love is shallow, at best. If you cannot grasp the true meaning of love, as demonstrated by CloudxAerith, TidusxYuna, and ShuyinxLenne, then you are a very sad person, indeed, and have clearly never experienced true love.

So, who does Tifa resemble? In FFVIII, it would definitely be Quistis. Like Tifa, Quistis grew up with the main hero. Quistis also develops feelings for Squall, the same way Tifa develops feelings for Cloud. However, the hero does not reciprocate their feelings. Squall loves Rinoa and does not reciprocate the feelings of Quistis, his "childhood friend". Cloud loves Aerith and does not reciprocate the feelings of Tifa, his "childhood friend".

In FFIX, Freya is most like Tifa. She is an "old friend" of Zidane's, like Tifa was an "old friend" of Cloud's. Freya is also physically strong, like Tifa. Neither of these females are strong with magic.

In FFX, Lulu is a remade Tifa. She has long dark hair, wears black, has reddish-brown eyes, and is... "well endowed", if you get my drift. She has a painful past (she has lost people she cared about, like Tifa), is very pessimistic, and has a difficult time letting others see her softer side, just like Tifa. She is also a supportive friend to Tidus, like Tifa supports Cloud.

Even Yuffie has corresponding characters that are like her-- hyperactive, optimistic, and cheerful. These would be Selphie (FFVIII), Eiko (FFIX), and Rikku (FFX, FFX-2).

Wise essay. ;) It might cause more impulsive people who read it to sort of flip the writer the middle finger salute, especially if they ADORE the rinse-and-repeat character. :lol:

Still... lovely essays. :gift:

I love the special girls, the bubbly types come in second for me.

That's a really brilliant essay, FF Goddess. That's why I sometimes think there's definitely no purpose for a "Cloti." Your essay and the rinse&re-use one pretty much answer why. :ermm:

I wonder how long SE will use this formula. :unsure: As for FFXII though, I have no idea whether ashe's going to be mage because based on the ff12 pics I'm seeing, she handles a sword. but i've also read that there'll also be summons in the game so..maybe she'll be a warrioress who summons? *confused* :no: and penelo, she'll be the bubbly one, right? i just hope she won't be too annoying ^_^

Rinse & Re-use... Smart technique; the female stereotypes really do work! I always like the 'Gifted Girl' most because they all share the 'special by birthright trait'! never thought to connect them when I played the games though.

Krystle, Terra and Celes from FFVI uses swords/morning stars/flail and shields as their weapons of choice. But both are more basically magic-users.

Terra as an Esper = pawnage though.

I'm putting up a lot of hopes on Asche. I would want her to be a favorite character of mine. I hope she has a great back story...

Hmmm ... there are some points I agree with ... but other points that I disagree with on quite emphatically. For example the Bubbly Girl never being a powerful fighter. Here's someone who's obviously never seen the power of multiple 9999s from powered up Yuffie, or the 99'999 of a powered up Godhand ( yay go Rikku :D), or Eiko's strength stat being higher than Zidane's.

Again with the Gifted Girl. Physically weak my arse ('cuse my language :blush:) Sorry but I get tired of hearing so many people saying that. Gifted Girl Rinoa gets a stronger strength stat than Squall and Gifted Girl Aerith gets access to stronger weapon choices before any other character does and is the only girl to get a triple attack power weapon on disc one :aeris:

By comparision the so called stronger " Damaged Women" can actually be weaker than Bubby Girls and Gifted Girls. For example I consider Tifa to be the weakest link out of the FFVII girls, she lacks the superior weapon choice of Aerith of disc one, and on the latter discs when everyone has been built up although Tifa can potentially do 7 X 9999, Yuffie can outdamage her with her own multiple hitting limit breaks :) Also it is Tifa who most often finds herself in trouble not Aerith the Gifted Girl :aeris: Hence I always get mad when people call Aerith FFVII's damsel in distress because if anyone's a damsel in distress in FFVII it's Tifa :P

Nonetheless a good essay despite the points I disagree with :)

And ... FF_Goddess's essay looks divine :blink: Maybe it's the purple font :P
I've yet to read it ... but it looks beautiful :huggle:

I am curious about Ashe in FFXII as well. She seems to be in the "gifted girl" category. She is a princess by birthright, someone of great importance. She is also leading a group of rebels (Rinoa, anyone?). Penelo is the "childhood friend" type of person with Vaan. I have heard a few places call her his girlfriend, but that has never been confirmed. She also uses martial arts, like Tifa.

Also, we know, at one point, Ashe gets married. Now, when this happens is up in the air. It could be a flashback to an arranged marriage that Ashe had to take part in for the sake of her country. Her husband could have been killed and she could have joined the rebel group afterward (for revenge or whatever). She and Vaan could still become an item.

Yuna's "marriage" to Seymour anyone? I remember when the screenshots of that were being released my friend said "Good! I'm tired of the main female always ending up with the main male!" Guess what? They did! :D I'm not gonna make any kind of judgement twards it until I play the game


Anyways, I agree with this essay. I've felt that a long time, and it's nice to see someone get it all down into one essay :D

Same here, Sefie. I think FFXII looks promising. I am tired of hearing people on other forums going OMG, FFXII IZ GUNNA SUK!!!! <_< How do they know???

Hehe, I noticed the same things! Except FFVI doesn't really have a main hero...maaybe Locke, but he has something with Celes, and Terra with General Leo (a really short lived character).

I'm looking forward to FFXII too! Especially after seeing the wedding clips. "A princess who lost it all' probably does mean she was married but he died and she...ran away? Or lost her kingdom. Sounds like a sad story!

Looks like the rinse and repeat method dies out once FF12 comes out. Ashe is Vaan's twin sister, so there goes that main guy/special girl pairing! XD

Where did you hear that??? :blink:

Err...got it translated from the main site. My friend is fluent in japanese, and she informed me of such.

If it's true then it makes sense because I always suspected that Ashe and Vaan where somehow related because they look so similar to me. XD

and you'd be right. From what I hear, they're probably going to push back the release for 12 because they're having trouble with Vaan's game sprite--he doesn't look as realistic as the rest of the cast does, but they also want people to see the physical similarities between Vaan and Ashe.

He is a strong character to most of them, but I always saw Terra and Celes as the main characters of VI.

Terra is the lead character in the World of Balance while Celes is the lead character in the World of Ruin.

I didn't know that...so Vaan is Ashe's brother :shock: .Correct me if i am wrong but is the first time that the two main characters are brothers...it sounds awesome. :fangirl:

Vaan and Ashe probably aren't siblings anymore since it's been revealed that Reks is Vaan's estranged brother and he was married to Ashe before getting offed by Brasch...

Although honestly I woulda preferred it if Ashe and Vaan were siblings (with Reks not being Vaan's older brother, of course). XD

I've always found the "Rinse & Reuse" format Square has designed so many times very amusing, and very interesting in terms of how the characters relate. Of course, my personal favorite has always been the "gifted" girl, Aeris and Yuna especially. They just...shine so much, and they're usually so wonderful and sweet. :aeris:

I think that this theme will reoccur in FFXII. Ashe struck me immediately as the gifted girl of the FFXII group (except this time she's literally the "princess"), much like Aeris, Rinoa, Garnet, Yuna, etc. She seems primarily like a cross between Rinoa, Garnet, and Yuna. I've had hopes that she'll end up with Vaan since day one. So at present, I refuse to accept that they're related. :P

I'm beginning to like Penelo, though, because she seems like a cross between the "damaged" girl and the "bubbly" girl. Nice, fresh, and original, and reminds me a lot of Tifa and Rikku, which is a fun mix. ^_^ Fran looks like she's going to be very Paine-ish, but also a lot like Freya. So, since she seems to be such an intense damaged girl, I think they needed to balance her out with Penelo and Ashe's brightness. :D

Well, I acknowledge that Rikku was the Bubbly Girl in FFX, but: Was she still the Bubbly Girl in FFX-2? Man, she seems everything but naive in that game (FFX-2).