Title: Rurouni Kenshin Manga
Description: Has anyone else been reading this?
vashsunglasses - August 8, 2005 02:13 AM (GMT)
I have bought all of the Rurouni Kenshin Manga that have come out in english so far! (Right now it's up to 16 out of 28 all together.)
I can't recommend it enough! The artwork is fantastic and the storylines are terrific. It's the best historical drama manga that I have ever read and (with the OAV's) is tells the complete story of Himura Kenshin's life.
Here is the basic plot (without any spoilers, most of this stuff can be found on the first page of the first manga):
10 years ago during a revolution, Kenshin was an assasin called the Hitokiri Battousai. After the war he stopped killing and became a Rurouni (wandering swordsman), trying to make up for all murders he did before by saving people's lives. He wears a Sakabatou (a Katana with the blade on the opposite side) so he can't kill.
During the manga he meets up with new friends and falls in love with a woman who doesn't care who he used to be. Sometimes bad things happen and he almost reverts into being the Hitokiri Battousai again. (His eyes turn yellow... very cool) Now he has to protect the people he loves without becoming a killer again.
Schala - August 8, 2005 03:13 AM (GMT)
I've read Rurouni Kenshin too! I went a bit loony over the anime also, when Cartoon Network was showing it. I really enjoyed the beginning, but didn't really like the Kyoto saga. Although I'm not a fan of Kaoru, I really liked Kenshin (and his cross-shaped scar)! It was great the way Kenshin had two personalities, and I guess I liked the themes of atonement, that kind of stuff. Every so often, Kenshin would break the seriousness of the situation and go "Oro?" with swirly-eyes... Cute. But at the same time, he's a major kickass swordsman!
vashsunglasses - August 8, 2005 03:40 AM (GMT)
Like this? :lmao:

Have you seen the OVA's?
Kusari Yarou - August 8, 2005 03:50 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| Have you seen the OVA's? |
I LOVE the first OVA, I've seen it a million times, I believe. Of course it helps that I'm a huge Tomoe/Kenshin fan(very rare in the RK fandom). I loved Kenshin when he was still Battousai! The sweet Rurouni is great too but cold killer Battousai will always win me over.
Anti-R - August 8, 2005 05:04 AM (GMT)
Yay! Me too! Tomoe and Batthousai Himura for me too!
Schala - August 8, 2005 04:06 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| Have you seen the OVA's? |
I haven't, since I'm too stingy to spend four dollars renting. But I read spoilers for it! I heard that the last OVA was rather sad though.
vashsunglasses - August 8, 2005 07:46 PM (GMT)
The OVA's are more than worth a $4 rental fee. Samurai X: Trust and Betrayal is considered by many to be one of the best Anime movies ever made. Samurai X: Reflections is not quite as popular (because it is too sad for some people) but it's still excellent.
I'm more of a Kaoru/Kenshin person than a Tomoe/Battousai. Tomoe kinda freaks me out, she's very wierd with the whole 'I Love You Yet I Want To KILL You' thingy.
Kenshin as the Battousai totally rocks! :fangirl:
Onigiri - August 9, 2005 06:09 AM (GMT)
Hey!! I'm a TomoexKenshin fan too! :D
I think they are cute together and...rather dislike KenshinxKaoru ^^;
Love the OVAs, read all the manga and think thats great too!
Odango - August 13, 2005 03:20 PM (GMT)
I really love Rurouni Kenshin <3 It's right up there on my 'favorite manga/anime' list,along with Naruto and InuYasha.
I have the entire anime,and i'm still collecting the manga. ^^;
Schala - August 14, 2005 01:04 AM (GMT)
I really would collect the manga, but there're just so many of them! There must be more than a hundred episodes too, though I only watched a couple of seasons. Cartoon Network never did finish the Kyoto story arc. I think it ended during the fight with that strange kid Soujiro. :(
lenne - August 14, 2005 03:33 AM (GMT)
Yeah I read the Book and I've seen the OVA's Im Not a fan of TomoeXKenshin(sorry TXK fans)
and I'vs also seen the anime
Mira - August 14, 2005 03:55 AM (GMT)
I'm a TomoexKenshin shipper, which isn't surprising since I sort of have this thing for tragic would-be relationships that never had a happy ending. Despite the fact that I detest the KaoruxKenshin relationship, I don't have any negative feelings for them except when they're bashing Tomoe.
Huntress Krystle - August 15, 2005 01:12 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Kusari Yarou @ Aug 8 2005, 03:50 AM) |
| QUOTE | | Have you seen the OVA's? |
I LOVE the first OVA, I've seen it a million times, I believe. Of course it helps that I'm a huge Tomoe/Kenshin fan(very rare in the RK fandom). I loved Kenshin when he was still Battousai! The sweet Rurouni is great too but cold killer Battousai will always win me over.
|
Yay! I'm glad there are Tomoe x Kenshin fans here as well! I prefer their pairing over Kenshin and Kaoru's. I just like Tomoe better, cos I think she really was the person who changed Kenshin and I think he loves her deeply. I never read the manga, but the anime is definitely the best I've seen and will always remain as my favorite. There really was a Kenshin Himura, right? I've seen his picture and he looks nothing like the dashing, anime character! lol
Look! Kenshin does the household chores! :lmao:


Schala - August 16, 2005 01:28 AM (GMT)
Aww... Kenshin's so cute! Isn't it great he can clean and cook? I loved how he played with the kids too. Sorry to the Kenshin x Kaoru fans, but I always thought that she wasn't deserving of Kenshin. She's supposed to be good at kendo, but really can't help that much, other than giving Kenshin moral support.
vashsunglasses - August 16, 2005 04:39 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| There really was a Kenshin Himura, right? |
No... but he is loosely based on a real Assassin from the Bakumatsu/Meiji Era named Kawakami Gensai. Here is the description of him from Volume 1 of the Rurouni Kenshin manga:
Kawakami Gensai was one of the four great hitokiri, or assassins of the revolutionary (Bakumatsu) period. He was short and skinny, and could be mistaken at first glance for a woman. Contrary to his appearance, though, he was clever and clear-headed despite also being most dreaded among all the hitokiri.
Master of an original sword-style called "Shiranui-ryuu," Kawakami is famous for felling the great idealist Sakuma Shouzan in one swing, in mid-day. Kawakami is nevertheless a mysterious figure, however, as there are no certain records of his other assassinations.
After the revolution-and unable to let go of the idea that Japan should remain closed to the world- Kawakami found himself in frequent conflict with the revolutionary government. Ultimately, he was accused of a crime he did not commit and executed in the 4th year of Meiji.
Anti-R - August 16, 2005 11:52 AM (GMT)
I didn't like how Kaoru freaks out everytime "TEH EVIL BATTHOUSAI" springs up. Such a crybaby.
Huntress Krystle - August 16, 2005 02:29 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Schala @ Aug 16 2005, 01:28 AM) |
| Aww... Kenshin's so cute! Isn't it great he can clean and cook? I loved how he played with the kids too. Sorry to the Kenshin x Kaoru fans, but I always thought that she wasn't deserving of Kenshin. She's supposed to be good at kendo, but really can't help that much, other than giving Kenshin moral support. |
**spoiler alert****
Do you also agree with me that Kenshin loved Tomoe more than Kaoru? He may have had a child with Kaoru but the way he acts when he was with Tomoe was more felt and genuine in my opinion. He even chose to travel and continue fighting instead of staying with Kaoru and help her raise their son. Am I right? Tome and Kenshin remind you of Aeris and Cloud, don't they? Tomoe died as well but you could tell that Kenshin hasn't lost his feelings for her.
Kaoru as a person is okay. She may shout all the time and act immaturely, but she cared for Kenshin deeply. However, Tomoe is different. Do you remember Kenshin's reaction when they first met? She made him stop and caught his attention right that instant because of her remark. I think Kenshin respects her deeply and looks up to her highly. With Kaoru, he was the happy go lucky kind of guy. I dunno but I envision them more as friends rather than lovers. And it took Kenshin a long time before I think he realized that he cared for her. Matter of fact, up to now, I'm still not sure if he actually loved Kaoru or if he only cared for her. It is clearly seen that Kaoru is the one who has obvious feelings for Kenshin but not him. With Tomoe, on the other hand, at that short span of time they spent together, Kenshin was always serious and focused. And let's not forget that It was her who made Kenshin realize that he should stop slaughtering people. And at that short span of Time, I could tell that he quickly developed feelings for her...
Sorry If I'm sounding like a Clorith debating against a Cloti. I just wanted to express my stand as to why I preferred the TomoexKenshin pairing. And pls tell me if I was being off-topic so I edit my post. :(
Anti-R - August 16, 2005 05:42 PM (GMT)
Well where do I start?
Because of the violence that Kenshin saw as a child, he made a decision to do whatever it takes to create a new order that abolishes the violent one. So he becomes a hitokiri batthousai, a mere pawn used to kill important people quickly, it eventually causes a duality in his persona (done well in the OAV, not sure about the TV series... it somehow implies Batthousai is an evil demon that should not be unleashed).
Anyways, he killed Tomoe's fiancee. At that time he never gave much thought of him as the faceless guy who scars him. Enter Tomoe, an older woman who's bent to have his head, so to speak. Maybe it's a way to ease her guilt that she feels her fiancee had to leave because of her, or maybe because she wants someone to blame because he was dead. Anyways, it ended up that Kenshin happens to be there.
Maybe because Tomoe has a maternal streak going on in her (she did took care of Enishi and raise), but I guess she realized that underneath the ruthless killer was a nice young man who, in any other circumstance, would not have been living this kind of life.
Of course that threw her plan off the loop. And I think she would have abandon her revenge and quietly lived with Kenshin, if she hadn't found out that the group whom she worked with also got a hold of her younger brother.
Anyways, she was killed by Kenshin's sword. And this was probably the first time he realized what it felt to lose someone this way. This also prompt him to make a vow that he will never kill anyone again after the revolution. You could say Tomoe inspired him to become the familiar Rurounin.
As for Kenshin and Kaoru, no comment, really. Nothing to say in this pairing... I don't hate it, but I'm not fond of it either. I haven't seen the other OAV, because people complained it wasn't a good one.
Schala - August 17, 2005 02:49 AM (GMT)
Well, actually I haven't watched the OVAs, so I really can't say much about Tomoe's attitude towards Kenshin or vice versa. But it seems to me that Kenshin's marrying Kaoru was something like moving on into the peaceful times. She was basically a guiless, innocent, and caring girl. I guess being around Kaoru could help Kenshin feel less like the battousai and more like a regular guy. I also respect that she could keep Kenshin from drifting. Maybe he just wanted to settle down and leave his past behind him. (But then again, from what I read, the last OAV kinda points otherwise)
As for the Tomoe x Kenshin pairing being like Aeris x Cloud, I'm not sure if I agree. Because other than the fact that both meant a lot to the protaganist and both died, Aeris doesn't strike me as very Tomoe-like. I'm guessing when I say that Tomoe was the serious type (seems like it), but Aeris was hardly ever that way. In fact, she was the one to make Cloud lighten up. So if she's to be like someone, I'd say it would be Kaoru.
It's true that Tomoe meant a great deal to Kenshin, but no matter what, he has moved on. Tomoe may have set the major groundwork for Kaoru, but it still stands that she was in the past, and Kaoru is the present. Rurouni Kenshin's themes have always been about changing with the times, so it would be... demoralizing, I suppose, to have the hero not move on. Kenshin wasn't really the type to cling to the past, anyway.
Still, Tomoe will always be special to Kenshin, because she knew a part of him that Kaoru didn't actually see. I'm just sad that the last OVA made it seem that Kenshin tried so hard to find his atonement, and just as he finds it... Well, you know. Perhaps he never did leave the past behind, after all. How sad, a whole lifetime of searching for redemption. :(
Onigiri - August 17, 2005 03:41 AM (GMT)
Well, I think the similarities between the KenshinxTomoe pairing and CloudxAerith pairing is more than 'skin deep'. Its not really how they act, as in one is depressed and messed up and the other is cheerful. It could be more similar in a way that Aerith changed Cloud's life in the same way Tomoe changed Kenshin's. They made the other care again and (arguably) still loved the other years after death, etc. Not saying that I actually think they are very similar...
I just like the KenshinxTomoe pairing better because it just seemed like they understood and liked each other more, like there was a 'real' connection. It seemed like she is more meaningful to Kenshin than Kaoru. Kaoru is kinda..average, while Tomoe is more special, which is how she changed the Battousai. I don't think if Kaoru met him back then would have changed him or even felt anything for him. I think Tomoe could have accepted both sides of him.
vashsunglasses - August 17, 2005 03:55 AM (GMT)
*********SPOILERS!************
I think that Kenshin loves Tomoe and Kaoru equally and they are equally deserving of his love in return.
First, Kenshin fell in love with Tomoe, a woman who had vengence in her heart but gave it up in love for him. Tomoe showed her love by giving her life to save his, even though he had killed her fiance. It was her love that allowed him to leave his life of murder and become the rurouni we all know and love. I'm sure that Tomoe, had she lived, would have devoted her life to making Kenshin happy.
Next, Kenshin fell in love with Kaoru, a woman who didn't judge him for his past. She kept him from becoming a murderer again and showed her love for him by giving him her life. (she devoted her entire life to backing him in whatever he needed to do without thought for her own needs, then asked him to give her his syphilis so that she could share in his sufferings and die with him)
The way I see it, they were both strong loving women and there is no need to try to place one above the other in Kenshin's heart.
Schala - August 18, 2005 02:19 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| The way I see it, they were both strong loving women and there is no need to try to place one above the other in Kenshin's heart. |
I wish I could do that... But I always end up taking sides anyway. :( Considering that I've never seen Tomoe, it's pretty hard to support her, though it's not like I'm a Kaoru fan. But if Kenshin is still in love with Tomoe, I'd have to say that it's unfair to Kaoru. He shouldn't marry her if he still loves Tomoe as much as he does her.
mallorn - October 6, 2005 09:58 AM (GMT)
Hey guys! Rurouni Kenshin is one of my most favorite manga and anime series (until the end of the Kyoto Arc that is) of all time. The first set of OVAs are my absolute favorite, as well as their soundtrack. Very beautiful.
My favorite character is Tomoe, and it goes without saying that my favorite pairing is her and Kenshin. I loved the fact that Tomoe was very serious, she had lots of baggage with her, no doubt, but she still managed to change Kenshin. I am so tired of ultra perky perfect anime and drama heroines who change a brooding, serious, hero and bring the smile back to his by their cuteness. I especially love this pairing because it is definitely not your average manga pairing, but it works really well. :)
I agree with you, Schala: Even though I wish I could think of Tomoe and Kaoru as equals in Kenshin's heart, my biases start creeping in at one point or another. :( BUT, for me there is no doubt that he at least loved both of them. I don't think that he would marry Kaoru if he didn't love her. I also felt very bad for Kaoru in the last OVAs where she was always waiting for Kenshin to come home... in the end he still couldn't entirely leave his past behind him.
Kusari Yarou - October 6, 2005 10:24 AM (GMT)
*glomps all the Kenshin/Tomoe fans* Hello! I was beginning to think that I was alone in loving this pairing!
I don't hate the Kenshin/Kaoru pairing. It's okay and Kaoru's okay. I admit there were times in the anime where I was very irritated with her(turning on the waterworks about TEH EVAL BATTOUSAI, as Anti-R put it) but I was also touched when I saw the last OAV and her devotion to her dying husband *sniffles* God, I hate that OAV...no wait I mean I liked it but...it was..so... :sad: :sad: :sad: You know?
I guess the only thing I hate about the pairing is when rabid Kenshin/Kaoru fans start attacking Tomoe because she OMG HAD SECKS! with him. <_<
.
| QUOTE |
| Well, I think the similarities between the KenshinxTomoe pairing and CloudxAerith pairing is more than 'skin deep'. Its not really how they act, as in one is depressed and messed up and the other is cheerful. It could be more similar in a way that Aerith changed Cloud's life in the same way Tomoe changed Kenshin's. They made the other care again and (arguably) still loved the other years after death, etc. Not saying that I actually think they are very similar... |
*thumbs up* I agree Onigiri! It reminds me an awful lot of Cloud/Aerith too! Not in the personalities of the characters but in the nature of the relationship. He knew Tomoe for only a short time but continued to love her years after her death
One of the reasons why I like KxT over KxK is because Tomoe loved BOTH sides of Kenshin. She loved his gentle side and she loved his assassin side. I didn't like how they turned Battousai evil in the anime and have Kaoru bawl whenever his Battousai side came out . Kenshin wasn't evil when he was Battousai! He was a cold-blooded killer but he was not evil!!! He was doing it because he thought it was his job to 'change destiny' or something of that sort(I forgot). But as Tomoe said, "When you're not killing people, you're...too kind"
Amathala - October 7, 2005 07:58 AM (GMT)
This post has major spoilers...if you've not seen the OVA or read all of the manga, then I'd advise you not to read...I dont feel like marking all my spoilers.
I've been reading this, and I start thinking about the constant and rabid Cloti and Cleris debate that goes on. It's nice to respect your pairing, but dont hate (not saying you do) one pairing over another.
IMO, after watching the first 2 story arcs, reading some of the manga, and watching both OVA's (Seishouhen mainly) religiously, I would like to point out something very important.
Kenshin was ready to move on in Seisouhen, until he saw the note posted above the Kamiya household. Obviously he didnt want Kaoru in more danger, so he went to settle the matter immediately.
After coming home and confessing his past to Kaoru, she was captured by Enishi. It took Kenshin a while, but he eventually came to get Kaoru, his new love...the woman that was his future. Tomoe was his past, and his final showdown with Enishi, was, in a way, the author also telling us that Kenshin was ready to move on.
I think that Kenshin loved both women...Tomoe in his past, Kaoru in his present and future. The reason he was so distant was that he was still trying to find ways to amend for all the lives he had taken. So when he was asked to go and help others by the government, he did, hestitating only because he didnt want Kaoru to be upset..yet she said, "You have given me much joy. Go, and I will wait for you."
And she did...she waited and waited for him. He could come and go as he pleased, thus, allowing him to be a wanderer, and he had a home to come back to when he was ready.
I think that everyone's opinions on Kaoru are based JUST on Tomoe's attitude. Yes, Tomoe was strong, but also remember how it tore her apart when her fiancee was killed, and when she found out that she was being used by people all along, just to get to Kenshin. I know it's not fair to base that on my little arguement, so I wont.
Kaoru isnt the little whining girl that everyone says she is...she's cheerful, and strong...the only time I see her whining is when she's afraid that Kenshin will leave from her...and we all seem to forget that Kaoru is only 16-17 at the time of the manga, so she's going to be quite emotional. She's an only child, no siblings, no parents...her father left her to fight, and died...so I'm sure she's scared that Kenshin will leave her. She wants companionship.
Kaoru is quite strong, really...she fights along with Kenshin, even if he tells her not to. She tries hard to fight against the fake battousai in the first episode, even though the guy is massive and she is not. Many Many times I see her promoting some butt-kicking, and I loved it.
This might not seem like much of an arguement from me, but I just wanted to express my views on it. I doubt I'll get flaming from you guys, and everything I said will probably be shut down, since I know a lot of you guys are excellent debaters from proof in the LTD. I just wanted to express how I felt.
Kusari Yarou - October 7, 2005 12:05 PM (GMT)
You know...I agree with you on some points, Amathala. I was quite touched by Kenshin and Kaoru's relationship in 2nd OAV. And I think he did love here eventually.
I didn't feel too much of the love in the anime because Kaoru still annoyed me at times and Kenshin shows affection to her but not my idea of romantic love. In the 2nd OAV though, I did see the romance.
(Or maybe I'm just saying this because Kaoru was OOC and reminded me more of Tomoe in the 2nd OAV :lol: )
| QUOTE |
| but also remember how it tore her apart when her fiancee was killed, and when she found out that she was being used by people all along, just to get to Kenshin. |
So what...that doesn't make her weak :unsure:
I was just more moved by the Kenshin/Tomoe relationship. I found it very powerfully touching, for such a quiet relationship. I loved how he never forgot her, even 30 years after she had passed on...I loved how she was battling with her love and hate for him...I loved how he finally found something he wanted to protect...I thought their lovemaking scene was gorgeous and tastefully portrayed(unlike some other couples... Miaka and Tamahome, blech :puke: )....I loved how he still continued loving her even after he learned about her betrayal...I freakin' love the scene on the mountaintop "Gomen nasai, koibito"... :fangirl: :fangirl: :fangirl:
Erm...I think I lost it there. You get the idea :D
Don't mind me. Tragic couples are just my cup of tea. Sanosuke/Sayo is another one :wub:
Hey, no one has mentioned another couple I love: Misao/Aoshi!!! :fangirl: If Kenshin/Tomoe and Sano/Sayo are my Cloud/Aerith, Misao/Aoshi is my Yuffientine! :lol:
Paksenarrion - October 7, 2005 06:43 PM (GMT)
I agree with you completely, Amathala. ^_^
I never see Kaoru being a whiny girl. She may have been devastated when Kenshin left for Kyoto, but what did you want her to do? She was 17 years old, and afraid that she lost the SECOND man in her life. She thought he would go back to wandering after Kyoto and not come back to Tokyo. With this, she would be all alone again. Because of course Sano and Yahiko would follow Kenshin, and Kaoru stayed in bed for days. But you know what? Megumi got it through her thick skull to grow up and be strong. Kaoru afterwards admitted that she needed to grow up. She admited it, that shows character.
With the second OVA... I don't necessarily agree with it at all. It wasn't Watsuki's original story to have Kenshin and Kaoru to be seperated 15 years after marriage and then to both die of Syphillus. I personally don't think it ever happened. I go by the ending of the Manga, the TRUE ending.
This whole series is about building for the future, fighting for the future, living for the future. Moving on. Kenshin did love Tomoe, but he moved on after 11 or so years of seeking atonement. Kenshin also loved Kaoru. He would always have Tomoe smiling for him in his heart, but he knew Tomoe was his past, and Kaoru was part of the future he wanted to protect.
Kusari Yarou - October 8, 2005 03:23 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| It wasn't Watsuki's original story to have Kenshin and Kaoru to be seperated 15 years after marriage and then to both die of Syphillus. I personally don't think it ever happened. I go by the ending of the Manga, the TRUE ending. |
You mean that uber-sad OAV is not necessarily canon? :unsure: That in the true ending, they lived happily ever after?
Gee...I don't know how I feel about that. On one hand, I was very saddened by that last OAV, on the other hand, I thought it was very well done despite how much I sobbed over it.
| QUOTE |
| She was 17 years old, and afraid that she lost the SECOND man in her life. |
Kaoru had a boyfriend without Kenshin??? I must have missed that... :o
Meikyo - October 8, 2005 04:03 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE (Kusari Yarou @ Oct 7 2005, 08:23 PM) |
| QUOTE | | She was 17 years old, and afraid that she lost the SECOND man in her life. |
Kaoru had a boyfriend without Kenshin??? I must have missed that... :o
|
She means that Kaoru first lost her father, than was afraid of losing Kenshin, right? Kaoru didn't have a boyfriend before. @_@
Oh dear, this is becoming a KenKao VS KenTo debate. :lol:
You know, I just noticed something. o.o; The Battousai that Kaoru was frightened of was the crazy, amber eyed Battousai, who had only thoughts about killing. The Battousai Tomoe met was different. The young Kenshin, who had to kill. And I probably don't make sense. -sigh-
And iunno, did you guys state why Kaoru was whiny/ :unsure: Anyways, I would cry too if the guy I loved said he was leaving and never coming back.. ;~;
Oh yeah..here's a paragraph somebody wrote defending Kaoru:
| QUOTE |
She can't accept the Battousai side to Kenshin, and Tomoe can. The Battousai is not just another aspect of Kenshin's personality, like a temper or a creative side. He really is a different person from Kenshin, a person who looks at the world differently. He puts goals - winning a fight, bringing freedom to Japan, whatever - above people. Personal isn't the same as important, to him. He looks at the world in black-and-white, he's constantly on the alert, and he can kill without thinking. Kenshin has a more nuanced and balanced view of the world, he values individual rights and happiness, and he simply cannot kill. Kenshin's personality has to give way to the Battousai for him to kill. This was a change that came about as a result of his relationship with Tomoe - up until the day that he killed her, he still thought of the deaths as unimportant compared to the future he was fighting for. When she died in his arms, he realized that it's all important to someone. The Hitokiri Battousai of the Ishin-shishi was a political assassin who was working for what he believed to be a good cause. He did not kill for fun; although he wasn't paralyzed with remorse, he did feel the moral consequences of killing, as evidenced by his brooding over the taste of blood in the sake. However, the Battousai who emerges twice in the series is not a freedom fighter - he's a killer. He may be a killer for a good cause (saving Kaoru's life, and eventually the lives of others Jineh would kill) or for a not-so-good cause (settling the feud with Saitoh) but in the end, he's motivated not by higher principles but by personal drives. Is killing Saitoh going to liberate Japan? No. It's just going to satisfy a stupid, ten-year-old grudge. And he doesn't feel guilt - he WANTS to kill people when he's in Battousai mode. When he fought Saitoh, Kaoru saw him turn into a different person before her eyes, and she had no way of knowing that he would ever turn back. Not only that, but he has made it very clear that the Battousai will cause him to leave - if he kills, he's out the door, both mentally and physically. It doesn't have a thing to do with "the Battousai is evil" - it's more like "the Battousai is not Kenshin." Think of it as a split personality; I hesitate to call it that because he doesn't exactly fit the profile, but RK is not the world's most realistic series. I don't think it's stretching too far, within the context of the series, to say that the "Hitokiri" personality was created by the trauma of Tomoe's death and eventually began to fade as he found happiness - which it did. At the end of the Jinchuu Arc, Saitoh refuses to fight Kenshin again because Kenshin is no longer the Hitokiri he'd wanted to defeat.
|
^^; I used to not like Tomoe, kinda like how I used to not like Tifa. XD But gradually, I started really liking both of them. :P
Tomoe was a sweet girl who had a huge impact on Kenshin's life, and will never be forgotten. :)
Kusari Yarou - October 8, 2005 04:11 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| She means that Kaoru first lost her father, than was afraid of losing Kenshin, right? Kaoru didn't have a boyfriend before. @_@ |
Oh, I see! :lol:
| QUOTE |
| The Battousai that Kaoru was frightened of was the crazy, amber eyed Battousai, who had only thoughts about killing. The Battousai Tomoe met was different. The young Kenshin, who had to kill. And I probably don't make sense. -sigh- |
In the first place, I didn't like how the series made out Battousai to be evil <_< In the OAV, I didn't see Battousai and Kenshin as a split personality at all, I saw them as one.
Meikyo - October 8, 2005 04:34 AM (GMT)
Ah, did you say that before? o_0;;" Gomen. @_@
Anyways, the anime was rather icky sometimes, ne? XDD
Kusari Yarou - October 8, 2005 04:53 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| Anyways, the anime was rather icky sometimes, ne? XDD |
Hmmm, what do you mean icky? :P There were some parts of the anime that I didn't like like the FengShui story arc and some of the beginning parts :yawn: . But by the time the Kyoto story arc came...whoaaaa. I was hooked!!! Kyoto was where I began to doubt Kenshin's ability as a swordsman, where I began to question whether his peaceful philosophy was right after all. The host of villains that suddenly appeared was very intriguing(Shishio! :o Soujiro! :fangirl: ) and ALL the good guys were really pushed to their limits. This was actually a story arc where I wasn't sure all of them would survive, where every episode was a fight to the near-death. It was definitely the highlight of the series.
Coming in close second was the Edo story arc(that's what it was called, right?). As a Christian myself, I liked how they tackled the issue of Christians in Japan and I loved Shogo Amakusa's character. They has such a sad past, both him and his sister. Blind!Kenshin was a sight to behold(pun intended, lol) and Sanosuke/Sayo's love story... :sad:
Onigiri - October 8, 2005 05:09 AM (GMT)
I don't really know why defending ones personality to be really important in this topic. Maybe people are just biased and only think characters they like are the ones that they think have the real love (does that make sense...? well..you know what I mean :P) I think we should look it at Kenshin's POV. I just didn't feel any love as deep and meaningful from him (and reason too) then he had for Tomoe. It felt like, to me, that Kenshin protected Kaoru more as a guardian rather than for love...maybe for love, love of familly, but not in a romantic sense...I just never really got a feeling of deep connection...He obviously did love both since he was with both, and did end up with children with Kaoru, just think the one with Tomoe was deeper and felt more real. I didn't really like how Kaoru fell in love with Kenshin either...kinda felt like a crush on some older man. The mangaka made it official for KenshinxKaoru, I just think he didn't set their relationship up well enough to convince me that they were truly in love...oh well. :P
Meikyo - October 8, 2005 05:49 AM (GMT)
I felt that the Kyoto Arc was fantastic too, hehe. ^^ But sometimes I thought the battles dragged on for a bit too long..like for the anime, for about 2 months, it was Kenshin VS Soujirou. XD
I also disliked alot of filler episodes, but I think that could be said for alot of animes. ^^;
mallorn - October 8, 2005 06:02 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| It wasn't Watsuki's original story to have Kenshin and Kaoru to be seperated 15 years after marriage and then to both die of Syphillus. I personally don't think it ever happened. |
Yup, I read in an RK forum loooong ago that Watsuki did not like Seisouhen at all, mainly because Kenshin and Kaoru were a bit out of character and he thought that all shounen series should have a happy ending (meh.). Some people there could understand how Kenshin turned from Battousai into a hyper Rurouni in the anime/manga, but according to them, it was hard to make a connection between the hyper Rurouni and the sad, moping Kenshin in Seisouhen. I was a bit shocked at the beginning, where Kenshin fell off the ship and he thought that it would be alright for him to die... really not like the guy he was in the anime at all. Not to mention leaving Kaoru and Kenji to keep on travelling, it's hard to believe that he'd do it if you base it solely on the end of the manga.
That said, I LOVE the Kyoto Arc of the anime. The action was solid and kept moving, the surprises were really surprising (okay that sounds weird), and there were absolutely no draggy episodes. For once I didn't much mind the 'go-through-all-of-my-associates-before-you-come-to-me' approach, because many of the fights were very ingenious (although I didn't see the point of yelling out your technique before you attack :D). The Christian arc was okay too, but I detested the Feng Shui one. Most boring arc in the whole anime, IMO. And don't get me started on the movie. :D
Kusari Yarou - October 10, 2005 04:08 AM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| Yup, I read in an RK forum loooong ago that Watsuki did not like Seisouhen at all, mainly because Kenshin and Kaoru were a bit out of character and he thought that all shounen series should have a happy ending (meh.). |
Oh. Wow.
I don't know whether to be sad or happy that I'm actually allowed NOT to consider it canon.
On one hand, my brother and I cried our eyes out after watching it and rued the creators for making such a sad ending for our beloved hitokiri. I've somewhat accepted it now but I still cry everytime.
On the other hand, this is the only part of the RK story where I appreciated romance between Kenshin and Kaoru. And no matter how heartbreaking it was, it was still all very touching, the way they handled it.
... but please tell me that Reminiscence was Watsuki's idea too! I worship Reminiscence! If I learned that it wasn't canon... :sad:
| QUOTE |
| For once I didn't much mind the 'go-through-all-of-my-associates-before-you-come-to-me' approach, because many of the fights were very ingenious |
I've forgotten some of the battles now(curse it! I must watch this series again!) but my favorites:
Kenshin vs Aoshi: Oooh, I still cringe when I remember Kenshin grabbing Aoshi's sword(lol, get those dirty thoughts out of your head, you! :lol: ) And Aoshi was just so damn sexy with that dark outfit and double swords! *swoon*
Kenshin vs Soujirou: Loved the insane Sou-chan and almost cried about his past. I thought his speed technique was really cool and ironic how Kenshin defeated him: only with the use of one leg in his sword technique! Made me ponder the complexities of Hiten Mitsurugi
Kenshin vs Shishio: Ack! I truly feared for everyone who was involved in this battle! I remember screaming when Shishio practically tore Kenshin's face out :puke:
I also remember that Aoshi came out after Sanosuke, Saito and Kenshin were knocked down(dead?) and he apparently "brought them back to life". What was up with that? :unsure:
Amathala - October 10, 2005 12:04 PM (GMT)
| QUOTE |
| ... but please tell me that Reminiscence was Watsuki's idea too! I worship Reminiscence! If I learned that it wasn't canon... |
I believe that Reminscence was a manga, am I correct? I'm sure that when they get done translating the main series, they will translate Reminscence too...I did like the ending for Seisouhen though...it wasnt really a happy one, but I guess if you watched through the credits and saw the small bonus ending, you'd be happy for it.
The Kyoto Arc was one of the best...I havent finished the last couple of story arc's myself...since I'd rather buy than download. I just cant seem to come up with the money to get it. After I get my computer fixed, I'll possibly get the pretty artbox set.
Speaking of artboxes...does anyone know where I can get them for the other two series? I read that they were just selling the boxes themselves if you've already bought the series as individual discs.
Meikyo - October 10, 2005 10:38 PM (GMT)
-shiver- it really freaked me out when Shishio bit Kenshin. ^^;;;;;;;
mallorn - October 11, 2005 04:19 AM (GMT)
I am 100% sure that Reminiscence is canon, as it's in the manga, starting in the middle of volume 19 until the middle of volume 21 I think. It's sort of a mini-arc inside the larger Jinchuu arc story. :) It's my favorite arc in the manga (yes even more than Kyoto), and I love how Tomoe is rendered in the manga. :D
Haha, I remember taping the Shishio-Kenshin match (all 3 or 4 episodes) when RK was replayed on TV... But my sister accidentally taped over it with the Fushigi Yuugi OVA, of all things! :lmao:
Paksenarrion - October 17, 2005 03:20 AM (GMT)
Yes, Reminiscence is definitely canon, and part of the manga, right after the Kyoto arc. BUT Reflections is absolutely NOT, I repeat NOT, part of the manga original story. I don't agree with it at all. It barely touched upon the revenge arc and what happened. Stupid ending. Watsuki wouldn't write that. <_<
Sorry for the rant. :sweat: