There are lots of things to discuss about dating... you can ask/discuss anything here in this thread.

Now here's my question:
Is it alright for the girl to make the first move on the guy? Like is it alright if the girl asks a guy out on a date or to go to the movies with her? :woot:

Of course it's ok! :lol: I think some people just think it isn't ok because they were exposed to the traditional way of thinking. That the guy should make the first move, etc. Times are changing though so I dunno how many people still go by those rules. ^_^

It's ok, at least that is what Cosmo told me! Yes I am addicted to it, although I'm getting too old for it, :rolleyes:. I'm not the most experieced dater actually, so I can mostly just give advice for the serious relationship stuff. sigh, the perils of early marriage, lol.

I don't see why not, especially just asking someone out to the movies! ^_^

Personally, I see it as a silly old rule imposed by traditions and stereotyped gender roles. :)

Well, from what I've heard, guys love it when a girl make the first move. For one, it shows a woman is decisive, and two, it saves them from doing it and possibly getting turned down. :lol:

I would not know,but for me,I am fine either way,what matters most is if she's happy,so if she want to make the first move,I'll let her,if she wants me to I will.

Although I never went on a date,so I would not know.

I think it's okay for either gender to do the first move. The thing that I don't like is others asking people out for another person.

Amen to that.Poeple try to do that all the time with me.they don't seem to realize I want to stay single and virgin till marraige.

Yea i see nothing wrong with it!!

I asked out a guy i liked!! and it turned out he liked me 2! He was to scared to ask me out in fear of rejection! he was happy that i made the first move, if i hadn't, there would be no relationship and i wouldn't have known about how he felt!!

It's better to know, than not to know at all :P

Dont beat yourself up about WHAT IFS! and go for it.

Again dont wait around for things to happen, you go and make it happen!!!

there's nothing wrong in making the first move. however, i am quite "traditional", but if i really liked the guy, and he wasnt doing anything, yes, i would go first. fear of rejection is what scares most people. look at tifa. :tifa: shes a perfect example. she was too shy to ask cloud, and aerith got there first. :cleris:

I wish I were as confident as you guys,but no,the woman has to be confortable
around me first.That will take a long time.

Eeeps... :o
But what if the guy is like a rockstar but you know each other and he knows you exist and he knows who you are... I mean, you know, the fangirls and all... How do I sound like I'm not just one of his fangirls? :(
Zhakeena, if you're reading this... don't laugh at me. <_<' Gaaah.

just grab him by the scruff of the neck, and say, "Go out with me or die!!"
he might just return the feelings. :whistle:

Haha. That's great! :D If I stick to my bad/control-freak attitude, I could do that. But the sad thing is, I respect this person very much, I wouldn't want anything bad happening to him and the last thing I would want myself to do is to hurt him. :P

this sounds like deep love. *sigh* ^_^ i know its easier said than done, and ive never had the bottle to do this, but...just pull him into a corner one day, make sure youre not going to be disturbed by anyone, and just tell him how you feel. he'll see your sincerity, and maybe he'll think twice about his decision."youve seen the films. it aint over til its over." --- quote from love, actually

I don't think I'll ever have the guts to ask someone out unless as friends! I'm too romantic... But its not that I think the man has to do it, its just that I'm too of a coward to do it myself! :lol:

same here, SJ. i never have the courage.

One question though,why should I make the decision to act first if,I have no experience in dating anyway,I meen it does'nt really matter,but I don't know
why she would not,there always a chance I'd say yes,and there also a chance
whoever probably have more experience.


In fact,to make the most of the experience,what do you think I should do first,
I never been anywhere,even parties,so I am a little nieve.

uhm... the safest thing is to get to know the person better first or something? Like start out as friends or just a level below that: plain acquaintances. Maybe that could work. I dunno. O_o'

What age do you think I should start,I meen I have a girl that I already have feelings for.But what if she does not have the same feelings for me.I am almost afraid to show my concerns for Erika,but I am afraid to express them,maybe
either don't want to get into love tangles.They say if you try to catch a fish in a big pond,you may catch the fish,but there will be tanlges along the way,but its really hard to get out,witch makes it harder to express my concerns.So I was wondering
what kind of date would go best for the time being.


I was thinking just being in the city,on a wooden bench,just finding out
about each other,and maybe showing her a cute or wacky gadget I might have.
Then express my concerns for her.Then when we leave,Envelope her in my
loving trenchcoat.

Ugh...I hate it. I can't stand asking someone out because I get all nervous and ended making some stupid noise or something plain stupid. Plus I've been rejected everytime I've asked a guy out.

I'm probably worse than you,I can't even bring myself to
even talk to girls or I like,and even harder to have a
emotional attachment to them.


How do you know when you like someone,or have a emotional
attachment to them.I've heard dating causes emotion,and emotion
causes nothing but pain and loss,so I'm a bit of a cat to try to find out.

Okay, on the whole "Girls asking Guys out" thing. Here's some truth for girls out there who think maybe it's the right thing to do. This may sound old fashioned, but let me assure you--it's thr truth. If a girl wants to go out with a guy and this guys hasn't asked her yet, she starts thinking: "Okay, I'll just ask him" but when she does this, it's completely turning everything upside down. Sure, the guy likes it, it strokes his ego, and it keeps him from having to be the one that asks and face the risk of rejection. But girls, when you do this, you're not letting him be the man. And when you take his place in this matter, he gets bored. Fast. You suddenly become "the easy girl" who he can always count on when everybody else has something to do. Here's the cold hard truth=If a guys doesn't ask you out it's because of one of two things: 1. He is either too chicken to ask you and doesn't deserve to go out with you 'cause he won't step up and be a man, or 2. He just DON'T WANNA. I know it's plain and simple, but it's the truth. So Girls, preserve your feminine mystery, and wait for him to act. And Guys, step up and be a man already! If you like a girl, then ask her!

RIGHT ON. XD Seriously, guys asking us out would save us from alot of stress. (..Yeah yeah, us asking guys out would probably save them from being stressed out too, BUTTT), be a man! :P

:lol: or at least invent something that lets us tell what guys are thinking.

Actually, I have a really ridiculous story to tell you guys..this girl was like..hopelessly 'in love' with this guy about a year older than her..she had liked him since like..2nd grade, and still did..they were pretty close friends.
So they kept on..talking..and talking..and one day he said, "Let's exchange secrets~", so she said, "um...I'm not sure I want to." Because of course, her secret was that she liked him..
Then one day, she couldn't stand it anymore, because this guy was dropping ALOT of hints hinting that he liked her..so she agreed, and he went first..and he told her liked TWO OTHER GIRLS.
Extremely mad, she told him that she liked him and stopped talking to him...eventually, he told her that he liked her back too, and he was lying about those two other girls because he didn't want to tell her anymore after he agreed to..
ALSO, after they got together, he told her, "I thought you would get that I liked you by all my hints."
<_< -_- what a jerk, right!? What is she supposed to believe, when he's acting one way, but saying another!?

(......XD -rant-)

same thing for a girl if the girl likes the guy, he needs to ask him out, guys cant read minds..

if the guy like the girl and thinks she is a goddess, and when guy thinks that, he just can go up 2 her and say ''hiya I like you''..its not easy you know :P and if the guy gets turned down alot, and if a girl likes him, how dose he know XD

And Guys, step up and be a man already!

So basically you support the close minded and emotionally guarded principles that have made men unhappy and unromantic for decades.


Good thinking.

No. What makes men "unromantic" and "unhappy" is the fact that we as women have thrown so much out there, that a guy doesn't know what to think when he sees a woman that refuses to play games with him. What, may I ask, is so wrong with these principles? It seems to me that some of the greatest love stories that the world has known: Romeo and Juliet, ect. These romances that still contained an evident amount of chivalry on the male part, were strong because each person knew their role as man and woman. What may make men "unhappy" is that a valuable woman is not "easy". Love is something that must be attained, and that one works for. If men don't assume their roles as leaders in the relationship, who's going to? It definitely shouldn't be the girls. You are supposed to win our hearts, not the other way around. Oh, and one more thing, what's so "unromantic" about a girl being swept off her feet?

Everything BMKC said is true. It's simple facts.

well, say the girl loves the guy, *but the guy never seen her in school or work*...
but the guy might feel the same way, if they ever ment, well then thats a girls job to ask the guy out, guys arnt minds readers...

I mean its the wemons world 2, they want to be treated like man, they can do much stuff better then man (i think) so why cant a wemon swept a man off his feet

You are supposed to win our hearts, not the other way around. Oh, and one more thing, what's so "unromantic" why cant a girl swept a man off his feet?

what wrong , with a woman , winning a mans heart...we dont live in the 1900s
anymore...


like i said, the guy may not even know that girl is live,*but he did he world love her*
why cant the girl ask the man out...win his heart...?

it need to be = if the girl feels that way, let her ask...guys cant read minds you think we can seems like. but we cant

BKMC

What may make men "unhappy" is that a valuable woman is not "easy".

BKMC, I know you're not a man, and I know you don't know what you're talking about here. Before I get started, that post contains your opinions and what you like and look for in a relationship, it DOES NOT contain objective facts that are absolutely true or 'simple facts' as Nevi states. If you can't see that then there really is no point holding a discussion with you.

I assure you I am not unhappy to chase a woman, to win her heart and to have to work for her. Believe me I'm not, if anything it is worth something more because I have put so much effort into the relationship. But you see that is the key, it's a relationship. Both halves should be involved in the romance, we do not live in the 50's or feudalistic times. What reason is there that women cannot make a man fall deeply in love with her rather than the other way around?

If men don't assume their roles as leaders in the relationship, who's going to?

This is what I'm talking about making men unhappy. Do me a favour. Read a book called Real Boys by (sorry forgotten his first name) Pollack. Men should not be typecast into roles in relationships or anything else. There is no reason a woman can't be the leader of the relationship. The most enjoyable relationship I have ever been in involved my ex-girlfriend really wearing the pants if you will. That's not to say I had no part in the relationship, but I wasn't the arbitrary leader of it and nor did I want to. Typecasting men into these roles also typecasts them into unemotional and guarded roles (the roles of the fifties) and that is what has made men unhappy for decades. The obvious answer to your question BKMC, is the women.

It definitely shouldn't be the girls. You are supposed to win our hearts, not the other way around. Oh, and one more thing, what's so "unromantic" about a girl being swept off her feet?

Why not? Why are we supposed to win you hearts? Because society says so? Because that's the damn roles we've been shoved into? On one minute women are striving for equality, to be leaders in the world, which I would love to see. It would make the world a better and more involved place. But on the other, every day we're being told that we also have to fit back into the old roles of chivalry that we're not taught and do not understand. This is not to say we cannot and will not 'sweep a girl off her feet' but that we should not have to. You may what a man that does that and that's great, you'll find someone like that. But do not start telling me that that is how it all should be. You can have your opinions BKMC but do not preach them as fact.

I personally do not want to be the leader in a relationship, I want to be with a woman outgoing and strong enough to tell me that she likes me and we move from there. Are you going to tell me I'm wrong?

Here! Here! Rufus! Here! Here!

BMKC, do you have any idea how sexist your post is? The way you've placed both men and women in restrictive gender-stereotypes is, frankly, offensive - particularly towards men.

Confidence and self-assurance is not completely related to testosterone. These traits are not gender-specific. A man can be shy, reserved and insecure just as much as a woman can be outgoing, confident, highly social, and bold.

There is nothing wrong in a girl asking a guy out or taking the lead in a relationship and being assertive. It's true that some men do prefer to take the lead and some girls prefer to wait to be asked out, but it's by no means default sexual behaviour. Just because some women want to be treated in a certain way doesn't mean that all women do, and that all men should conform to this.

A guy isn't going to feel robbed of his manhood if a girl asks him out - after all, most people find confidence attractive, and also find romantic interest flattering. And like RS said, men aren't telepathic. Sometimes the only way to let someone know you like them is to tell them. A girl isn't "easy" for asking a guy out - when a girl asks a guy out, everyone assumes it's because she likes him and is attracted to him specifically, not all men. It can do a person wonders to just go out on a limb and just ask someone out rather than wait around demurely. And what's wrong with a girl taking her life into her own hands? And so what if asking a guy out means running the risk of rejection? Trust me, you'll get over it.

And men are not dogs, BMKC. <_< How can you group them together the way you do? As you're not a man yourself, how is it you feel confident making such a pureile analysis of how they think? They're not animals who'll react in a certain way given the right stimulation. You can't predict the way every single one thinks - they don't share a collective mind any more than we do. They're not going to go into a psychological tailspin if they can't "feel like a man" (and why are you associating manliness with machismo?). All men are individuals, who think and feel just as much as we girls do, but you've just gone and grouped them all into one big stereotype. Stroke their egos and they're happy? Is that all you think there is to a man? Men are human beings, Bless, and each individual is distinctive and complex. Telling a man to be a man is an empty message, with no meaning. Like Raist said, being traditionally "manly" and emotionally closed hasn't made men happy, no more than being weak and compliant has made women happy. Men should be men? Well maybe we women should be women and go back to the kitchen and make cakes and babies all day long, too.

How do men play games? How do they play games any more than women do?

Because all men who aren't "traditional" and "romantic" are just horny dogs who want a quick lay, right? <_< Do you really think that all men who would like a girl to ask them out only interested in sex, and not a serious relationship?

I won't deny that Romeo & Juliet is romantic, even today, but its strength is in fantasy. Romeo & Juliet was always intended as an escape from reality. It doesn't reflect real life, certainly not real life in the 21st century. Chivalry is a nice idea, but would it really work in real life? Wouldn't it be frustrating? And again; it assumes that men can be confident and that women will be demure. Men shouldn't be brainless hunks in shining armour whose sole purpose in their existence is to love and protect their beloved. Those are outdated roles, Bless. There is no such thing as a man's role and a woman's role in relationships anymore. That's gender-stereotyping, and it's restricive to both sexes. Not every man wants to sweep a girl off her feet and not every girl wants to be swept off her feet, either. Maybe she wants to do a little sweeping of her own. And why can't a guy long to be swept off his feet and be taken care of? Why can't a man be vulnerable?

When you're under pressure for modifying your behaviour, your personality, to fit a persribed role, how can you really be yourself? And in a relationship, shouldn't a person be loved for who they really are? That's what's unromantic about forcing men into an uncompromising gender-role.

And for every literary classic that supports chivalry, there's one that debunks it - The Miller's Tale, Madame Bovary, L'Assommoir, etc...

True, but how can both partners find that together in a relationship without equality?

The woman, of course. Or the other man, if that's how the realtionship is. ^_^

Why? Why aren't women equipped to be leaders? Women are men's equals in every respect, why can't they display strength and confidence? Why can't a woman be emotionally stronger and more forward than a man? Why can't a girl win a man's heart? Why can't a woman take charge, why can't she lead? Women aren't children; they don't need someone to hold their hand throughout their lives.

Hear, hear! That's exactly it, Raist. And that's a man's perspective for you too, Bless. :whistle:

And again, even if all men were comfortable in chivalrous roles and understood them, that still doesn't mean that chivalry is a good thing. It's very restrictive to both parties.

That'd be William Pollack, Raist. ^_^

Hyper Ballad

The Miller's Tale

Damn, I love the Canterbury Tales. You seem to have good taste in literature...this is good :)

Well maybe we women should be women and go back to the kitchen and make cakes and babies all day long, too

XDXDXDXDXD

And that's a man's perspective for you too, Bless.

Yeh, us romantics seem to be dying out though *sigh*

That'd be William Pollack, Raist

You know it's funny, I remembered that name early this morning, and it was damn lucky I did. I ended up having to use it in an English exam today.

Have you read Real Boys, HB? What did you think?

indeed, I think most man want the samething...

Hb, I love when you say how you feel,^_____^...
you allways right :P

Raist, I like how you put things 2, we agree on most thing ^______^


I might pick that book up 2day at school^^

It's the kind of book I presume your school wouldn't have RS. But check out your local library, they'll be able to get it in for you. It's worth reading if a little text wallish.

Thanks! :blush:

I'm glad you think so. ^_^

No, I'm afraid I haven't (I had heard of it, though). I'll be sure to order a copy once my exams are over, and I'll have some free time to read it. Is there any more you can tell me about the book and Pollack's ideas, though? I'm very curious! :D

I hope your English exam went well, too. :huggle:

Hyper-Ballad

Hey how have you been HB? Long time no see in the lifestream. Well it's good to hear from you again.

:D

Is there any more you can tell me about the book and Pollack's ideas, though?

His work revolves around the problem of male unhappiness as an epidemic. He is essentially saying that the lack of father roles or idols in young male lives have led them to become shallow, unsure of themselves and unable to fit into a world that hasn't taught them how to live. They are unable to express emotion because they've simply never been taught and told that it is 'unmanly' to show such things, which obviously leads to bottling of feelings and gross unhappiness.

It also suggests some changes to education as the spatial differences between young boys and girls needs to be considered in their early education.

That's incredibly brief, and now that I look at it very cliche, but it is an excellent book and definately worth reading - even if you don't agree with all of his study and opinions.