The Cloti's are always claiming that Cloud didn't know Aerith long enough to fall in love with her, which is a ridiculous claim IMO. They are making the assumption that the events of Disk One only take about a week to happen. In reality, the time period during Disk One is never specified. You can *play* through Disk One in a day or two, but what was the REAL time period? In REAL time, it could have taken months for the events of Disk One to happen.

Cloud didn't know Tifa well as a child, which is specifically stated during the Lifestream Event by Tifa:

Tifa "...that's right."
"We lived next to each other."
"But I really didn't know you that well."

Since Tifa didn't know Cloud well as a child, then Tifa was just getting to know Cloud when he joined Avalanche at the beginning of the game.

Tifa is merely a background character in Disk One. When you examine the script, Cloud has FAR less non-optional interactions with Tifa during Disk One than Aerith. It's clearly shown at Comparing Cloud's Affection for Aerith and Tifa that Cloud has spoken about or spoken to Aerith 200 times in non-optional interactions by the end of Disk One. Cloud can speak to Aerith even more than that in interactions that are optional to the player (like the Date scene). In comparison, Cloud has only spoken to or spoken about Tifa 93 times in non-optional interactions by the end of Disk One. Over the course of the entire game, the amount of non-optional interactions between Cloud and both girls is almost exactly the same.

What about the number of non-optional scenes they have alone together? Cloud actually has MORE scenes alone with Aerith than he does with Tifa. Aerith has seven non-optional scenes alone with Cloud, as compared to five non-optional scenes alone with Tifa. Again, Cloud can spend even more scenes alone with Aerith in scenes like the Date scene, although this is optional to the player.

After Aerith's death, there are 17 scenes in which Cloud does not speak any words to Tifa at all even if she is a member of the group, and 9 other scenes in which he only speaks to her once or twice. There are also 11 scenes (Scene 103 – 113) after Aerith's death where Cloud is incapable of interacting with Tifa because he is either missing or comatose. This is a total of 37 scenes after Aerith's death in which Cloud has little or no interaction with Tifa whatsoever.

More detail about this can be found in the Analysis provided at Comparing Cloud's Affection for Aerith and Tifa. The bottom line is that Cloud was just getting to know Tifa at the beginning of FFVII since he didn't know her well as a child, and has an equivalent amount of non-optional interactions with both ladies during the course of the game. Therefore, Cloud did not have more opportunity to know Tifa any better than Aerith.

Yep, that is just another absurd CloTi claim. :rolleyes: We know for a FACT that Aerith had enough time to fall in love with Cloud from the translated Dengeki scan, about Aerith which stated "She loved Cloud". If Aerith had enough time to fall in love with Cloud, why is it so hard for them to grasp that Cloud had plenty of time to fall in love with Aerith? :rolleyes:

Exactly, FF_Goddess... There's the quote in Dengeki saying that she loved Cloud. Wilhelm and Vilaeth have both confirmed for us that FFVII Dismantled shows an added monologue from Aerith in Gongaga saying that she likes Cloud better than Zack now. The events of Disk One could easily have taken place over 3-6 months in real time. Cloud has an equivalent amount of non-optional interactions with both Aerith and Tifa during the course of the game, and Cloud was just getting to know Tifa at the beginning of the game since he didn't know her well as a child. Cloud actually has more scenes alone with Aerith than he does with Tifa. Cloud and Aerith have more than enough time to fall in love with one another, despite what the Cloti's claim.

I was wondering, in the game during the date scene she said something like this;

"It bothered me how you two looked alike. I want to meet you"

Doesn't this indicate that Aerith was telling Cloud that she had fallen in love with him? :unsure:

Other than that, how about the time when all of them sat around the Cosmo Candle, Cloud said something like ;
"but i'm... we're here for you." :unsure:

I dunno, even during the first time I played the game, I had a feeling than there was an attraction going on between them during these two scenes. There are more but ... as usual I can't be too sure.

Oh yeah,
unless the Cloti fans did their homework, Tifa during the Lifestream scene admitted that eventhough Cloud lived next door to her, she didn't know him very well.

That means that they're length of relationship wasn't that long either as Cloud left, came back to Nibelheim and was wearing a mask the whole time, then was taken in by Hojo as a specimen. The only time he met up with her again was after Barret found him.

So I agree with you, Anastar, that Cloud had enough time to fall in love with Aerith.

Enima - please use the Edit button to add to a post instead of double posting, okay? Thanks! :D ~ Anastar

Exactly, Enima... Cloud has the same number of non-optional interactions with both Aerith and Tifa during the course of the game. He was just getting to know Tifa when the game started, since he didn't know her well as a child. He also hadn't communicated with her for seven years. That means he really didn't know Tifa any better than he knew Aerith.

And that's only counting non-optional interactions. If you count optional interactions such as the Date scene, Gongaga village, and other optional chances to speak to Aerith, then Cloud is actually capable of having MORE interaction with Aerith than with Tifa during the game.

So yes... Cloud had plenty of time to fall in love with Aerith. :rolleyes:

That may be so, but like you said, the Cloti fans may claim otherwise just because they think that Cloud hadn't gotten over his childhood crush :huh: or the fact Tifa 'knew' him 'longer' <_< .

So it may be a little difficult to use these facts that we're discussing in this forum against them. Tried once on my brother, who's been a Cloti fan since we played the game years ago and he burst in my face eventhough he knew I was under University stress <_< .

Well, the CloTi's seem to think that knowing OF a person equals knowing them. Tifa KNEW OF Cloud, but didn't know him. However, I think what they're basing their opinon on is the fact that Tifa lives. But, they don't think about the first disc being as long as the other two put together, and they don't pay as much attention and realize how much of the first disc Cloud and Aeris spent together. They just don't pay good enough attention, or they'd be Cleris!

Hmm, I guess you're right. But still, some may be a little too stubborn to admit that they're wrong. They'll just go on boasting on what they 'think' is right.

*looks at everyone's posts* :D All very good reasons!!!

Personally, Cloud was just beginning to know more about Aeris and Tifa. Even though some CloTis claim Cloud and Tifa knew each other all their lives - they are half-correct.

The first half is that yes, they did know each other when they were young. The second half is more important about their relationship. Even though they knew the other was there, they never knew anything about each other's personal lives.

Cloud had a crush on Tifa for some time. However, crushes can fade away. It is not, I repeat, NOT, true love. Cloud left Nibelhiem to impress everyone (in the Lifestream Event...) and most importantly, Tifa.

When Cloud left for SOLDIER, Tifa just began to realize how much she had loved it when Cloud was there. So, she missed him and hoped he would return. In the Lifestream Event, she just found out about his crush on her (...hmm. If my memory proves correct...) and was even surprised.

This is not a relationship. How could the relationship even grow? They didn't interact with each other - even as friends. Their relationship was all based on illusion.


With Aeris, Cloud had a date with her (if you chose her to be your date...). Aeris even mentioned "I want to meet you". And I'm sure everyone knows what that means. :D Aeris was attracted to Cloud not because of the Zack within - she saw through that.

Aeris brought out the 'real' Cloud - Tifa just let Cloud take on the knight-on-a-white-horse.

You're memory has not proved you wrong. Like you said, only during the Lifestream event did Tifa understand that Cloud had a crush on her as he never really told her, as he never really told her before leaving Nibelheim to join SOLDIER .

Hmm....But the length of Cloud's and Tifa's relationship is just as short if Cloti fans want to prove that there is no relationship with Aeris. I mean, Cloud and Tifa barely knew each other, beside Cloud passing to the window each time, hoping that he'll be notice by her. What I want to know is that, How is that consider to be a presented relationship between Cloud and Tifa ? It makes no sense. They didn't know each other nor learn anything about each other besides minimal stuff like " I live next door to you."
And it can't be counted in weeks nor days nor months if there is no time gap presented on the first disk. This shows that Cloud had enough time to know many things about Aeris. But then again, he did ask about her and she asked about him. That is WAY much better than what Tifa could had done. Aeris learned about Cloud and Cloud learn about Aeris. Doesn't that prove that they were interested with each other ? How about a relationship forming between the two already ? I think that is enough to show that Cloud was very interested in Aeris and a relationship was already present.

Tifa did had all that time when they were children to learn about Cloud and when he joined Avanlanche. But she never did neither things. So, I see it as, Tifa doesn't understand Cloud at all. She never did. And it was only after Cloud left that she started to like him. That's the only thing that is visiable but it doesn't prove that Tifa knew Cloud so much more than Aeris if she didn't know squat about him in the first place.

That's what I'm trying to say. She thinks that she knows and understands him more than anyone, but was quite mistaken till the both of them fell into the Lifestream.

Like Cloud said, Tifa didn't invite him to join her and her friends in games. Other than that, when one of her friends said, "Look there's Cloud, I think he wants to come in," she didn't reply to his answer and replied that she wanted to look for her mother's spirit (unless it was in the next part of the scene :unsure: ).

(hopefully I didn't go off topic :ph43r: )

Either way Clotis lose this one.

If was long enough time (the time was never specified) for Aeris to fall in love with him, fine, so "realistically" speaking it works! But even if the time WAS short, that speaks volumes about Cloud's feelings towards Aeris. To have known her that short a time, and for her to have given him such a mesmorizing impact, in comparison to Tifa whom he had known most of his life, this is just further proof that Cloud liked Aeris more than Tifa. We don't know how long Aeris and Zack had together, but Aeris fell for Cloud pretty damn fast, and vice versa. The game was always vague on love, vague enough that neither side can determine who Cloud loved if anyone. But fortunatley for our side, we have those official "side games" (Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy Tactics, Parasite Eve I + II) and evidence (Nomura's quotes, commercial, coke cans, Amano art) which the other side has virtually NONE of, as a suggestion or hint to which pairing was intended as an official couple.

Hey, you're right. The intensity of love isn't necessarily measured by time, but if they insist so much... they still lose. Ah, so sweet... XD Time's relative, anyway.... :lol:

We still don't really know how much time passed in the game anyways. There always seemd to be alot of downtime in the first disc, meaning more time for interactions, but the second disc was all action and the third disc was just Sehpiroth so...

Time matters when you look into how long a pair have been together, but when you try to measure how much they've fallen for each other, time doesn't necessarily count. ^_^ Cloud was with Tifa (no, not romantically) for practically the whole game - and before it - but he still didn't love her, did he? With Aeris, Cloud only knew her for a short time, but he fell in love with her.

Yeah, Clotis lose this one. Cloud still hasn't loved Tifa - he still loves Aeris!

It's doesn't matter how long you've known someone if they're the right one. These people have obviously never heard of 'love at first sight,' ne? :rolleyes:
If I recall, he knew Zack for quite some time, and they were awefully close .... if you catch mah drift ... :lol:

Seriously, if the Clotis can try to count that as their proof, please kindly direct them to Final Fantasy VIII. Squall knew Quistis for a long time. She was even his teacher, and they grew up together for a time. His memories were gone because of the GFs, much like with Cloud's. Rinoa came into Squalls life and he changed, went through the same metamorphosis Cloud went through with Aeris, because Rinoa (like Aeris, unlike Tifa) has an open, friendly, cheerful personality. Squall looks over Rinoa even when she was in a comatose state for all that time. Who's to say Cloud can't love Aeris when she's dead?

Then there's FF10, where Tidus and Yuna has just met each other. Don't they understand? Age is never a factor in Final Fantasy's main couples!!!

Well if my PARENTS are any proof,that claim is ridiculous.

1)It was love at first sight
2)They married six weeks after they met
3)Been married 18 years

:whistle: Come again clotis? aeris diden't have enough time you say?. Im presuming they were in love before they married so that's even less than six weeks, and if the relative time in ff7 is months they had plenty!. :cleris:

Oh, please! Thats jsut another stupid excuse!
Who cares if they knew each other for a short period of time. Their just jealous because Aeris was chosen for cloud, not Tifa. I dont think many of the final fantasy couples were together for a long time. Its love people, not how long you knew a person. :angry:

Did you ever wonder...remember when Cloud was in the lifestream with Tifa? All the junk he said then? That and about two weeks went by with Aeris, unless you decide to sleep twenty bazillion times at some inn and waste 50,000,000,000,000 gil.

Okay, let's say it was just two weeks.

That's two solid weeks without breaks. They don't ever really get a chance to get away from each other.

There is no proof of how long it was. I don't get why people are saying it was too short of a time for them to fall in love. Squall and Rinoa had much less time and they knew less about each other anyway. Time has nothing to do with it.

time doesn't really matter in final fantasy games as people can see. The main pairing can begin to fall in love with each other after you are done with the first disk of the game.

Not in my case, I always had a guy with Cloud. I only used Aeris in the temple of the Ancients when I was forced to. Other then that I had Cid and Vincent.

I find that to be quite irrelevant, as the two changeable characters is a game mechanic and has no real impact on the overall plot.

Point is that the entire group travelled together, meaning that Cloud could've spent as much time with Aerith prior to her death as he did with Tifa.

Clotis claim he and Tifa knew each other longer thanks to their childhood, but the Lifestream sequence already shows that they barely knew each other. When the two met up again in Seventh Heaven, they met up as strangers under the illusion of being close childhood friends.

And yes, above all else, time is irrelevant to Cloud in deciding whether he feels comfortable with someone (let alone love) or not. He says so himself in Case of Tifa:

If Squall and Rinoa and Yuna and Tidus can fall in love with each other unquestionably within a short time, why should the rules bend for Cloud and Aerith?

Time doesn't really matter when it comes to love. Main couples have shorter time but grew to love each other. Heck, Zidane know Ruby and Freya before Garnet but do he love those two? Nope, he didn't even if he's such a ladies' man. :P

Same goes for other FF pairings, do you see Squall end up with Quistis? Even though I like the Quall pairing, I know Squall end up with Rinoa. Love conquer time!

I don't think time matters at all when you're falling in love with someone. My parents fell in love when they first met. Even when my dad only spoke English and my mom only spoke Spanish and they had no translator, they still found a way to communicate with eachother. After that first meeting, they were pen pals for a couple months, and then they were engaged having met only once. I think having a similar language is much more important than time, and my parents are doing wonderfully without initially having either of these things.

Secondly, whose to say that the first disc was that short anyway? They do extensive travelling by foot and other weakly powered vehicles. I always imagined that along their trips, they took sleeping breaks and such (hence the inns and the tents). When I think about the length of time that passed in the game on the first disc, I imagine 3-4 weeks if not a month. That, to me, is plenty of time to fall in love with someone.

If time is truly an issue for Clotis, why aren't they complaining about the rest of the FF series: Rinoa/Squall, Yuna/Tidus, Garnet/Zidane. They all met up, fell in love...and yet, you don't see Clotis complaining about how unrealistic those couples are, do you?

:whistle:

People can fall in love at any time, especially under the circumstances portrayed in the games. It has nothing to do with 'Length of relationship and reality'. People are just being bitter about a pairing they dislike.

Yes, thank you. I reel in disbelief anytime someone can actually think the first disc all happens within a week. A WEEK. Just... wtf? Do you not SEE Cloud's little Lego legs running across a VAST EXPANSE of greenery? How they had to cross mountains and plains and canyons on FOOT?

:wacko:

It's like when people maintain that Kalm's the ONLY town around Midgar. It's the closest town, yes, but that doesn't mean there can't be smaller, other town littering the path they took.

The way they question this, it's like Cleris is the only pairing in the known universe that happens within a short time. :rolleyes: What about the uncountable number of films and romantic comedies that show two people falling in love with each other in less time than that? Why don't we have long, drawn-out debates on those?

And I'm not sure how many RPGs tend to show couples that evolve and get together over many years, anyway.

Truth of the matter is that just because it's Cleris, it's getting more flak than it deserves.