I was thinking last night about the comparison between the Mideel scene, and when Aeris takes off to the City of the Ancients.
In both instances Cloud was out of it, and there was a threat that both girls could do something about("I'm sorry everyone, at a time like this..." "I'm the only one who can do it")

Aeris goes off to do what she can for the greater good, but lets Cloud know the only way she can. Tifa however, gives up on the greater problem, falls to her knees and just sits with Cloud.

I haven't quite thought out enough on these two scenes, so anyone want to add their thoughts?

I think Aerith considered it her duty to protect the planet at all costs, knowing that she was the last of the Cetra race. However, I also think during the dream sequence she had Cloud's best interests at heart too, she seemed concerned about him and told him to take care of himself and not to have a breakdown.

In the Mideel Hospital scene, Tifa knew that they were on an important journey, but at that point Cloud himself was more important to her. She didn't know how to help him, but she wanted to stay with him all the same because she thought it was best that she did. Her love for Cloud was what caused her to stay by his side even though she knew that she should be helping to save the planet.

With Aerith, she loved Cloud, but she knew that her duty as a Cetra needed to be fulfiled. It doesn't mean that her feelings were any less real or valid than Tifa's as some anti fans like to say. Maybe she went alone and told Cloud to let her handle Sephiroth because she knew that Cloud was vulnerable to Sephiroth's control, and after seeing how much despair Cloud was going through because of Sephiroth, she didn't want him to end up in that position again.

I think that shows the difference between Aerith and Tifa's characters - Aerith was strong emotionally and didn't let herself become pessimistic. She sounded confident that she could do something, that she could handle Sephiroth by herself, whereas when Tifa found Cloud in Mideel, she became depressed and didn't seem confident that she could help in any way. I think this is because she relied on Cloud to be someone she could depend on to be strong, and to see him in the state he was really knocked her confidence. She says at one point that if only Cloud were there then everything would be okay. His presence seems to reassure her.

...Here endeth the pointless post. :lol:

I couldn't agree more.

I think Aeris had Cloud's well-being (and the safety of the planet) as the top priority in her heart. She knew she didn't want to risk getting Cloud in danger if she sat around and let him fight Sephiroth so she wanted to help him and protect everyone, which is probably why she ran off alone. And she told Cloud "I'll come back when it's all over" - I think she knew he would be worried about her so she said that to try and reassure him even though she knew she was putting herself in great danger. So all this while Aeris was actually looking out for Cloud, in a way.

Tifa, on the other hand - seemed to believe staying by Cloud's side and supporting him was the right way to go. I don't think Tifa would've run off like Aeris had - she would've said something like, "If you're going to go fight Sephy, I'll come with you and fight by your side." I don't think she'd sacrifice herself for the entire planet...it seems very unTifa-ey to me. If it were Aeris in that Mideel hospital....hrm...I'm actually not sure how she'd react, but I have a feeling she would've told Cloud to pull himsefl together or something. She seems to have a way of bringing some spirit back into people. Not that Tifa's way of caring for Cloud is wrong, it's just slightly different from Aeris's.

But it's just my thoughts. I could be wrong. :P

if aeris was there, she would've stayed when cloud got mako poisoning. BUT, also, if there was something to do, she wouldve done it. she wouldve made sure he was safe, and then gone off and do what she needed to do. then she wouldve comeback straight away, and made sure he was alright. BUT she wouldnt break down she would encourage him, and help him alot more than tifa i think.

"all i care for is cloud... oh cloud...im so sad...cloud..."---tifa said stuff like that.


"Cloud? come on, get up lazy! you can do it! do you remember me? im Aer-is. remember? and you are Clo-ud. come on cloud, i believe in you!!"--i reckon aeris wouldve said something like that. she would be very supportive.

Amen, Madame. You said it all already. ^_^

I don't think it's very fair to compare both reactions, to be honest. How can you compare Aeris' selfless devotion to the Planet with Tifa's selfless devotion to Cloud?

In Mideel, the situation is much more grave - a lot of terrible, irreversable stuff has already happened. By Mideel, Tifa has already watched Aeris die a supposedly pointless and meaningless death, she's seen Cloud lose all sense of his identity, and knows how responsible she is for that, and she's seen that Meteor had already been summoned. Tifa pinned all her hopes on the idea that she'd find Cloud alive and that it'd make everything alright, because she'd learnt to believe in him (just watching her get so excited in Mideel really breaks my heart). Seeing him physically and mentally crippled absolutely shatters her.

In my opinion, Tifa stays because she has Cloud's good in her heart. She doesn't want to keep fighting what might be a lost cause (she's quite the pessimist remember) when she can spend her last weeks taking care of the man she loves rather than leaving him alone with strangers, and making sure he's comfortable and well looked-after. Tifa wants to do whatever she can. She wanted to watch over him, keep talking to him, giving him a familar presence even if he wasn't mentally aware of it. That she chooses to be with Cloud rather than fight on doesn't make her a wreck. She feels responsible for him - she put in a position that led to his illness, so she wants to stick with him and nurse him through it, no matter what it costs her. It's just the sort of girl she is - she's guided by emotion rather than reason in this case. She can only feel she's doing any real good by making it up to Cloud. Maybe she shouldn't have, but it was what she believed was best.

That Aeris has the best interests of the Planet at heart doesn't make her heartless either. I think if she'd somehow been present at Mideel instead of Tifa, it'd be very interesting to see how she'd react. Would she stay or would she keep fighting? How would you interpret both courses of action? Either way, I think she'd be deeply conflicted about it.

One thing that Aeris has that Tifa doesn't is a duty to the Planet. That Cetra duty is in her heritage, that love of the Planet and of live is part of who Aeris is. Her duty makes her leave for the Forgotten City as soon as possible to stop Sephiroth, with no regard for her own personal safety in the long run. Her devotion to all life - Cloud included - makes her willing to give up her own life, if need be. It makes her self-sacrificing. I find it impossible to think that Aeris could back out of that natural duty, even for the man she loved. I think she would be willing to make an emotional sacrifice as well as a physical one for the sake of all living beings. Because Tifa doesn't have that duty to the Planet (I think her joining Avalanche was primarily about revenge on Shinra), so it's far easier and more justifiable for her to stay in Mideel than it would be for Aeris in the same situation.

So how can you compare with fairness? :rolleyes:

Oh, major kudos goes to Sefie for starting such an interesting topic! :huggle:

I agree with you, HB. Tifa doesn't have the fate of a Planet hanging over her head. She joined Avalanche because she thought she might be able to do something...but in Aerith's case, she knew she could do something.
It's also interesting to note what Tifa might have done were she in Aerith's place, with the ability to save the world right at her fingertips? Would she be as emotionally weak as she was when she saw Cloud who wasn't in his right mind? Maybe her character and resolve would have been strengthened...who knows?
Is it Aerith's identity as a Cetra that gives her such innate strength or is it just really in her character to be so? Or perhaps the knowledge of her extraordinary abilities ever since she was a child and the burden of always being pursued for them were what drove her to be the emotionally strong person she is now...she couldn't help but be strong because she had trained herself to be so ever since childhood.
(Kusari absolutely wubs speculating! :D )

I have to agree with Hyper-Ballad that the two incidents aren't easy to compare. Since Aerith was the last Cetra, she was the only one who could understand how to summon Holy. As far as Aerith knew, summoning Holy was the only chance left for the Planet to survive - and she was the only one who could do it.

You can't compare that to Tifa in Mideel, since Tifa wasn't the only one left who could save the Planet - the other members of Cloud's party were still around to continue fighting Sephiroth, even if Tifa stayed behind in Mideel.

It wasn't necessary for Tifa to be around for the others to continue fighting Sephiroth. If Aerith had been in the same situation, I think her priority would have been Cloud, too.

Tifa was the only one who knew anything about Cloud's past, so she may have been the only one who could help him figure out if he had been born in Nibelheim. Yet, if Aerith had been alive, I'm sure she could have helped Cloud figure that out in other ways. Tifa and Cloud were surrounded by the Lifestream, so Aerith would have been able to listen to the voices of spirits within the Lifestream. It's likely that Aerith could have learned the truth from the spirits of the Lifestream.

It's very true that Aeris' ability to communicate with the Lifestream could have helped, but I don't think it could have done as much as Tifa was able to - it's Tifa ability to confirm Cloud's memories and his place in her childhood that starts to put the missing pieces together. As well as the fact that the resonance Tifa creates in his memories allows his childhood self to open up to her, Cloud gains security in his memories because someone who was actually physically there confirmed them for him. Tifa was the only one able to do this because she was the only one who shared these memories, and knew that Cloud's recollection of them was genuine. Even with the voices of the Lifestream, do you think Aeris would be able to accomplish this? :unsure:

I'm sure that Tifa would be willing to sacrifice her life for the Planet if she was able. I don't think her longing to be near Cloud would stop her from doing the right thing. She can be an emotionally self-sacrificing character - she takes the romantic backseat during Disc 1 and doesn't try to interfere in Cloud and Aeris' developing relationship, she forms a close friendship with Aeris despite their rivalry and she accepts Cloud's resolve to meet Aeris at the end of the game with a lot of grace and dignity. She has her moments of selfishness and emotional frailty, but I strongly believe that Tifa isn't the sort of person who's too weak to put other people's (in this case, everyone on the Planet) needs in front of her own. :tifa:

Interesting question, Kusari! ^_^

I think it's actually a combination of both - her unusual strength of character is what makes her stand out as unusual and "special"; the Cetra among the humans. I think that her heritage (and Ifalna's influence in her early years) must have moulded her character a little, and I also think that her strength of character is very innate and natural...maybe not a product of her being a Cetra, but just a product of being Aeris. At the same time, I think the influence of the outside world and her hard life has shaped her as well. I think that Aeris' identity isn't something that was given to her at birth (because if that were so, she wouldn't need to develop any emotional strength at all, if she already had all she needs), but the qualities that would later form her identity were. I believe that Aeris' soul is naturally and instinctively warm, wise, loving and strong-willed, and that she's always had the potential to be all of these things, but it's her life and its burdens and dangers that have made her develop all those natural qualities and gain that incredible emotional strength and wisdom. Her strength is innate, I believe, but it's her life that's forced her to use that strength and develop it and become the person she is during the game. It's all her own personal achievement. I also think that throughout the game she was still developing that identity, with all the elements of her character, but her spiritual growth was cut short by her death. :sad:

Er...I hope some of that made sense, Kusari! ^_^

Wow I agree with ya Hyper!!!!You say it much better than I ever could.

Aeris does have a greater advantage of saving the planet and everyone...including Cloud himself.She to me is more self-sacrifising than Tifa. As she gave up her life for everyone.But Aerith's way of sacrifising herself is different,it was a crisis issue.

Tifa cares for Cloud a great deal,as she is always regulating him and supporting him throughout,always taking care of him.I think she did try to save the planet with AVALANCHE,but it's been seemed up in my eyes that Tifa's main priority is not saving the planet,but being there for Cloud.Which isn't bad either.Though she gives up at times.

As for Aeris she is strong willed,emotionally,and mentally.She also gives support too.She wanted to keep Cloud safe,to reassure him of anything that happens to her. I think she's the one that has the drive to do such things.Aeris doesn't give up in bad or worst situations like Tifa did,so to me she has more will.She went to the altar,Cloud had a dream and Aeris supported him reassured him so that he won't be worried of her.You can't say she never cared of Cloud just because she had a duty to do. :rolleyes: She always sees the good side of things,morely carefree is another word for her,and is also warm hearted.Even if she didn't have much time to develope as she died in Disc 1,we loved her already.

They both care for Cloud,which is true.

But Tifa and Aeris are opposites with kinda the same emotion. One is optomistic,one is pessimistic.

I agree with everyone here anyway.