Now I noticed we haven't been giving this Daddy of SilverHaired Bishies enough credit in our discussion of AC.
I have guilty of this mistake, no doubt. For me (and most Cleris), I have been focusing so much on what Cloud wants, what Cloud will become in AC... And I know alot of Cloti fans are focusing on what Tifa wants, and what she deserves...

We seemed to have forgotten a major character - Sephiroth. Needless to say, he's one of the most popular, if not most popular FF villians of all time. And needless to say, Nomura loves this character, and he always try to portray Sephy as an almost invincible dark angel, even in KH.

Will Sephy simply be defeated by Cloud at the end of AC so that Cloud can live on and be happy as some of us wanted? Is it fair to end a legendary villian this way?

For me, I think Sephy should be given a more beautiful end. Having him simply be defeated by Cloud, Tifa and co doesn't seem to give enough credit to this hauntingly gorgeous villian. Notice how the AC website shows a picture of halfCloud-halfSephy. Symbolises equal importance of both characters? So will having things going all pretty for Cloud would mean devaluing Sephy's worth?

At the moment, I haven't decided how it should be :P What do you think?

I think one of the things that made Sephiroth so great was the fact that he was so intangiable, in the actual events of the game, you can only be certain that you see him physically once. He did kill Aeris which was extremley significant-but he doesn't do a large amount in the game in compariosn to other badies-but his awe inspiring image created through memories and peoples opinouns and flickers of him here and there, accumlate to make Sephiroth amazing. He's looks and mannerisms also add to the whole effect.

Now that his in Advent children will he even meet an end, will he take an active role, I mean, is he coming back sane, or insane, or under Jenova's control. Sephiroth is one of the greastest villans of all time in name only, he wasn't the real villan of the game. Hojo and Jenova took that position. So, um, what is his purpose.

If he did meet an end it would have to be haunting but cool. Like chaos and madness is happening all around and he's standing still in the thick of it like it's nothing, starring forward not saying a word empty eyes yet at the same time so full of expression, the right half of his body from top to bottom a lit with a blue fire as everything crumbles around him and he is eventually obcsurred from view. I have no idea where this image came from but it looked nice in my mind so I thought I'd just pop it in, and it might even go with the AC poster-hmmm I feel like drawing. Yeah and Cloud wouldn't be shown during this shot at all, this shot is for Seph alone. Later when the chaos is over, you could have Cloud just starring with silence-not any kind of enviormental sound, just silence starring at the spot where he's rival perished, we know it's the spot, but it won't be shown, merely Cloud starring.

I've always thought Seph was cool, so I hope they do him justice in this movie.

Oh yeah, they have to do something cool with Sephy, or lordes of angry fans would run amock! Just him jumping down is way too cool ;) I can't wait to see where they take his character, I see him as the "boss" type of deal, ordering Kadaj Yazoo and Loz around while he observes... but hey, that's just me.

I think part of the reason we've done so little speculating about Sephy is that we have so little information about him - just that one short scene. The focus has really been on the SHM and Jenova as the "bad guys". Vincent also says that another Sephiroth could be made if the SHM get Jenova's head.

Many people think that Sephy has been resurrected, but I don't. There were many scenes in FFVII where Sephiroth wasn't really there, like the Temple of Ancients and the boat from Junon to Costa del Sol - he was really in the Northern Crater. So most scenes with Sephy in FFVII were really either Jenova, a clone, or a mental projection from Sephy in the Northern Crater. The same kind of thing may be happening in AC rather than Sephiroth being resurrected. It could easily be Jenova in the form of Sephiroth, for example.

I think a true end to Sephiroth is linked to getting rid of Jenova. Until they kill Jenova, I think Sephiroth has a chance of returning in some form without actually being resurrected. Sephiroth was only wanting to be reborn as a god to rule over every soul in FFVII, which meant that Sephiroth would somehow be able to control things mentally or spiritually after his death if Meteor injuring the Planet gave him the power to do so. Perhaps it's Geostigma giving him that power now?

So will Sephiroth have an end in AC? I'm not sure that he will...

After seeing that new artwork of Cloud carrying Kadaj, I hope Sephy possessed Cloud. Yup yup. :P

@,@ Anything with Sephy is confuzzling because there are so much possibilities!
However, seeing that Sephy has always been the no.1 arch-enemy of Cloud, I think it is highly likely the final battle in AC would be between Cloud and our silver-haired hunk (physically? or perhaps again, mentally?). AC would complete Cloud's story, similarly, I think it would conclude Sephy's too.

Now I am thinking...from the last trailers we've seen a while ago, of Sephy flying down at Cloud saying "I wont just be a memory." Does that mean the SHM succeeded in getting Jenova's head? Umm Where have Jenova's head been hiding all this while :ermm:

I am thinking if Sephy remains just a mental demon to Cloud, it would be uber cool too (only that we would prolly see less of him and hear more of his voice). I can totally picture :devil: Sephy instigating Cloud to do something evil, or using demoralising words to make him lose his strength to fight the SHM, whilst :angel: Aerith will be on the other side, constantly supporting Cloudy.

That's a very good point. Sephy's story and Cloud's story are linked to one another. The main poster for AC shows them sorta "melting" into the same genetic pool, which I took to mean that they are linked to one another while being in opposition to one another. Rufus said in Junon that Cloud was "Sephiroth's alter ego...", which reinforces the idea that they are linked in some way.

It seems most likely to me that Cloud's been hiding Jenova's head because he would realize more than anyone else how important it is to keep her head out of the wrong hands. I think most people are working from the assumption that the SHM got Jenova's head to resurrect Sephiroth, but Vincent didn't say that Sephiroth would be resurrected. He said another Sephiroth could be created - doesn't that mean someone with Sephiroth's powers, rather than Sephiroth himself? Cloud and Zack were both Sephiroth clones, but they don't look like Sephy.

That's why I question the "Sephiroth resurrection" theory, along with the fact that Sephiroth appeared in many scenes in FFVII when he wasn't really there. We don't know if the Sephiroth in the Temple of Ancients was Jenova, a clone, or a mental projection from Sephy in the Northern Crater - but he wasn't really there. So why does he really have to be resurrected to appear in AC? Especially when Sephy wanted to be reborn as a god, which would allow him power without physical form...

I'm wondering if Sephy and/or Jenova is controlling Cloud again in the scene where he's carrying Kadaj. Just like Sephy got Cloud to give him the black materia, Cloud could also be manipulated into helping Kadaj.

Umm possible, but does Sephy care for Kadaj? Sephy seems to me someone that wouldn't care for anyone else...I could be wrong though. If SE wants to give Sephy a more decent end in AC, perhaps they would portray Sephy with some feelings too. Either case, I think Kadaj is more or less 95% dead if Cloud/Sephy had to carry him like that :sad: :sad: :sad:

I don't think Sephy would care about Kadaj, but I do think Sephiroth would see Kadaj as useful. Kadaj wants to find Mother, which Sephiroth would also want. Kadaj wants the Reunion, which Sephiroth also wants. Sephiroth would help anyone who can further his own goals.

^Agrees.

I see Kadaj as the victim of the movie!! The poor bishie! :sad: *of course, I am totally biased*
Cloud, Sephy, Tifa etc damn you lot!!!!!! :sad:

Another thought about this - you make a very good point that Sephy would be the final boss and that AC might be an end to Sephy's story as well as Cloud's. Does this give any more reason to think that Cloud will not survive AC? :unsure:

I could easily see that happening, too. Aerith's words about, "Let's go, Cloud" make a whole lot of sense in that context if it means that she's going to help Cloud fight the SHM and/or Sephiroth.

Ahhh... an excellent topic slower... we haven't really been paying much attention to Sephy though, as Aly says, we've recieved so little info on him (perhaps even less than Aerith herself...)

I see something like this scenario most likely playing out as well. Since, as Aly and Everchangin pointed out, since Sephy was a more often than not an esoteric and spectral-like presence throughout FF7 more than anything else - his presence will be felt more in a supernatural sense. I can totally see a scenario where Aerith and Sephy are both, in a sense, "battling" for access and control of Cloud's psyche. I see a "final encounter" of sorts occuring in the Lifestream involving Cloud, Sephiroth, Jenova, and Aerith - with the struggle being a mental and spiritual one as much as a physical one.

I'm inclined to agree, slower. In fact, I'm getting the feeling that all the SHM may end up being sympathetic characters in the long run - "puppets" of Jenova who realise too late that they were merely pawns for Jenova/Sephiroth, and that their pursuit was, in a sense, a big lie. I think that would be a very interesting, and tragic, twist on the story (probably one of many).

I think that it is just to show us the relation they have, as JENOVA's clones.

That's a good point Aly, but in order to get rid of JENOVA, they would have to get rid of everything JENOVA means, like SHM, Sephiroth............... Cloud? See, Cloud, as the SHM and like Sephiroth has J-Cells, an in order to get rid of JENOVA, will Cloud have to die too?

Yes, light can't exist without darkness, and viceversa. Just like at the end of the MATRIX remember, if Neo dissapeared so Mr. Smith, and viceversa. This is a quote form The Matrix: Reloaded, when Neo meets Mr. Simth again, for some reason that scene is playing right now, on my TV :whistle: :

Mr. Smith: Mr. Andreson
Neo: ...
Mr. Smith: Haven't you noticed?
Neo: What?
Mr. Smith: Our Conection.

If light wouldn't exist would darkness, be darkness, would there be something to compare darkness, in order to give it such a meaning, and the same with light, if darkness wouldn't exist, what would light be, if there's nothing to compare it to. There must be a balance, if one dissapears, so as the other. So I think that at the end of AC, well have a final showdown, regardless of where it take place (physicall world, mental or spiritual world, The Lifestram), Cloud and Sephitoth will be over.

I don't think that Aerith and Sephiroth are battling in any sense for access and control of Cloud's psyche. Cloud's state of mind, is only in Cloud's control, then if he wants to change it, that's his task only, not Sephiroth's or Aerith's.

But I do see a final showdown, as you see it Buhon, I think that Cloud will die, and will find JENOVA and Sephiroth in the Lifestream, then as he sees darkness, he sees light, he sees Aerith, who helps him in battle, after they defeat JENOVA and Sephiroth, Aerith says: Let's go... Cloud, taking him to the Promised Land. :cleris:

On the topic of light not existing without darkness, I can see Cloud getting rid of Sephiroth once and for all, but only at the cost of his own life. AC would have such a meaningless, cheesy ending if Cloud just beats everything and goes on living happily ever after. The ending would not be as memorable and impacting as it needs to be to have a lasting effect on people. People need to feel the emotions to remember it for a long time. And the best way for that to happen is if their beloved icon of gaming and FF hero, Cloud, dies a heroic death and finally finds peace. Could you imagine all the tears being shed over that? People would feel that ending the most. Cloud taking Aeris's route and sacrificing his life, his inner light, to rid the world of darkness.

I would love to see that, but I mainly agree with Cloudsgirl. She stated my poinion freely.

I would like to see something unpredicatable though myself.

Most feminine siver-haired males are immediate victums of some evil force, the SHM seem a little too matrix and cool for me, I've always seen Sephy as the original silver-haired leather clad villan. *hides*

Cloud had a showdown at the end of FF7 with Seph, and though I'd love to see one. Clouds character is always having showdowns with Seph (e.g KH), I'd like to see something unpredictable and original whilst at the same time good.
I can't think of an alternative to a showdown, but in my heart I'd like to be wowed,
though I know I probably should shut up and hope for a decent movie overall.

I've read fics that I think will probably beat the hell out of the plot of this movie, believe me, but I can't judge from what I've seen, and what I've seen doesn't look bad-Clorith to me is the most important thing anyway.

Though I'm very cynical about this movie, I still hope Seph gets his fair share of cake, he deserves it.
Besides his appearence, his ability to create chaos beyond the realm of the games physical reality, to be projected as a character through memories and other characters. To show only drips of humanity and give small comments that reveal a hell of a lot about him without any blatant insuiation. That's what made Sephy cool. If AC can beat that, I will touch a spider. Seriously, I'm aracnophobic, and I will touch a spider, I will put my finger out and press its back.

The most important thing is that if Seph meets an end it will be a good one. Though I would prefer he met an end seperate to Cloud, or none at all, some scene like perhaps the one I named above, something with a lot of chaos where he fades from view, but there is a feeling that perhaps he didn't die, or maybe he did. We wouldn't be told.
I want one of their deaths-not both, their both too significant. One of the things which made Aeris' death so brillant, was the fact no other death in the game neared it, it made it all the more epic-she was the only one who died so powerfully. Having both of them die for certain might lessen the impact of it all.

Maybe Cloud can die and find Aeris and Sephiroths end could reamin uncertain. *shrugs* who knows, I'm talking like I'm making this thing.

......oh yeah heh heh, you DO know I was joking about the whole spider thing, heh *cough*

Well, I have been coming across this argument alot.
They feel that Cloud in his present stage in AC is angsty (and OCC), but by the end of the movie, he is bound to overcome his angst and guilt, and thus, he will move on with Tifa.

If he remains angsty - he has no character development, and he will become too similar to Vincent. We can absolutely have no 2 Vincents! :angry:
Thus, the only way forward for Cloudy is to move on with Tifa. :never:

If Cloud dies - he has no character development too! He will become like Aerith! We cannot have 2 characters die in one game series! :mad:
Thus again, the only way forward is Tifa :never:

What do everyone make of this argument?
I have one big word - Sephiroth. :winner:

If there is any obstacle to that sort of ending, it is Sephiroth. Look, Sephy was defeated by Cloud in FFVII.
Finally, after all sorts, he made a return in AC to threaten Cloud's being again. This time, only to have Cloud defeated him all over again.
In FFVII, Cloud > Sephy
In AC, Cloud > Sephy

Where's the character development for Sephy? Not even a single bit. He returns, he gets kicked back to hell by Cloud. In FFVII and in AC.
Isn't too fair for Sephy is it? :sad:

So in a twisted way, I think that aside from the factors that Clerises have been giving about why Cloud does not need to move on romantically, Sephy is another major factor.

forget sephy never >< lol i read on AC.net that he's still alive and says summit like " i wont just remain a memory" to cloud ooo i cant wait for AC >< :fangirl:

oh and i dont really wanna see him die again >< i want him to kick clouds ass ><

Please use the Edit button in your previous post instead of double posting. Thank you! ~ Anastar

Man,I should puit my Sephiroth Avatar up again.




Anyway,I think he should self destruct in the name of Cloud to take down Jenova,that would be the abmirable thing to do.Although I doubt he would. :P



Or maybe Cloud could perform the same death move on Sephi as Sphi performed
on Aerith,you know an eye for an eye.

yeah i guess thay would be cool >< if he self destructed then he couldnt follow out his plan of being a god ¬_¬ lol

Good point, STA!

Following the same logic, however, where would the character development be for Tifa if Cloud returns her love? She was hung up on Cloud all through FFVII, so where's the character development for Tifa if she hooks up with him at the end of AC? :lol:

Besides, they're overlooking the fact that Cloud will no longer be angsty if he reunites with Aerith. He's angsty because he misses Aerith, so he won't be angsty any more if he's reunited with her. Tifa would also have more character development if she learned to stop being hung up on Cloud and move on with her life independently. Sorry, but the Cleris perspective actually contains better character development than the Cloti perspective. :lol:

Another factor... why did Sephiroth wait to kill Aerith in front of Cloud's party? I think there's good reason to think that he waited to kill Aerith in front of Cloud because he knew how much it would hurt Cloud. We talked about that in another thread. Why would Sephiroth allow Cloud to move on to a jolly life with Tifa, if he's out to hurt Cloud? :unsure:

I really don't have the slightest idea anymore, after reading their arguments shown in the SE party. This is it:

**spoiler**
[Cloud and Sephiroth are shown fighting on the dome-shaped ruin. Cloud speaks to Sephiroth standing at the top of the dome]

Cloud: What is it you want?

Sephiroth, Masamune in left hand, raises his right hand high into the air. A swirling thing starts to appear around him, gradually growing and growing until it's huge]
[Rubble crumbles inside this giant cyclone. Cloud and Sephiroth fight it out in-between the rubble]

Cloud: What's going to happen to the planet?
Sephiroth: That... will be for you to decide.
**/spoiler**

What did Sephiroth meant with that?! :sephy: :ermm: Pretty weird, huh? :huh:

Honestly, in that scene I don't think it was Cloud that attacked Kadaj and defeated him. When that screenshot came out I think that Nomura was quoted as saying that it was possible that Cloud was not the one to kill Kadaj or that he was even dead.
The whole article is at adventchildren.net, but this is the specific part about Kadaj,
**Spoiler**

**/Spolier**
That leads me to believe that Sephiroth does not value Kadaj's life at all, and in turn was the one to attack him.

i dunno its just made me want AC even more now ><

Sephiroth - please use the EDIT button on your first post if you want to add something instead of double posting.

If you want to hide a picture, it's best to just post the link to the picture so people don't have to look at it. That's an old picture, though. ~ Anastar

ok****** spoiler alert*******, i found this pick i thought id share it



i dunno when its from i guess its from when he's fighting cloud. does anyone have anymore pics?

Yeah, that's where Cloud goes to fight Sephiroth. We've had that picture since last November. It was taken at the Montreal Film Festival. Daeya.org took a few more pics from that scene and made it into a pretty cool flash animation. You can find a link to it in this thread: http://s8.invisionfree.com/Cloud_x_Aerith/...hp?showtopic=99

We haven't had any other pictures of Sephiroth.

spoilers I think Sephiroth meant that Cloud will have a choice of how to react. When Sephiroth summoned Meteor, Cloud also had a choice of how to react - he could just let Meteor fall, or he could defeat Sephiroth and see that the power of Holy was released from Sephiroth's control. What happened to the Planet depended on the choice that Cloud made.

I think Cloud will face a similar choice this time in defeating Geostigma, Sephiroth, and/or Jenova. As an example, let's say that Cloud has to get rid of all Jenova cells on the Planet in order to get rid of Geostigma. That would mean killing the orphans, himself, the SHM, and Sephiroth. Would Cloud choose to do that, or not? It will be up to Cloud to decide. /spoilers

oops sorry about the double posting thing.

**spoiler**
I don't think that the children have to die, I think that only the sources of J-Cells (JENOVA, Sephiroth, Cloud?) are the one who have to dissapear in order to get rid of Geostigma.
**/spoiler**

mmm good points but aint it in the lifestream tho

spoiler No, no, no... I wasn't suggesting that the children were going to die. I was just giving an example of the kind of choice that Cloud may have to make in order for the Planet to survive, coz I think that's what Sephiroth meant by his comment. I think Sephy means that what happens to the Planet will depend on a choice that Cloud will have to make. It's Cloud's decision when making that choice that will determine what happens to the Planet. /spoiler