...Just a curious and general thought...

What do you think of Reincarnation?

I'm not asking for anything specific, just your thoughts.

I usually relate reincarnation to religion, and as I happen to be an atheist I do not believe in reincarnation either. Of course it's perfectly acceptable to believe in it even if you wouldn't be religious, but I haven't met any who would...yet.

And I have a feeling that when you are discussing about something such as this it might get bit more serious, so let's move this to the Lifestream. It's more appropriate place for this where one can debate and argue (to some extent) as much as one wishes to. ^_^

Oh, yes of course, what on earth was I thinking. Must of gotten carried away. Thank you very much Andria.

It's simply something that's been on my mind for a whilse but hasn't really defined itself as a clear thought in my head. And regardless of religion I find it interesting that certain people believe in it. My mum is catholic and she believes in it.

Though if it did exsist, with the lives some of the people I know have, I wouldn't be surprised if they were Nazi's in a past life.

Thankyou again Andria, and sorry for my silly topic posting.

Any thoughts??

It's hardly a big issue.
The line between the General Chat and the Lifestream can sometimes be bit blurry, so it can be hard to decide where to post. ^_^

But to be honest, to me it seems bit like a dream and nothing else. People are so afraid of the great unknown, death, that they try to comfort themselves by coming up with things like reincarnation. The idea that after death you have no control of anything is frightening to many and I suppose I can not blame them as it is bit intimidating.

But what sometimes confuses me is religious people who believe in both heaven and reincarnation. Aren't you suppose to go to heaven after you are done with your long struggle (short from some points of view) here on earth? Why would this god be so cruel to deny you your place in heaven where you will beforever in peace. Sending someone back to this depressing world seems like a bad joke if something, to be forced to spend another century (more or less) here in this war torn world where greed is rewarded more often than good will.

Nah, sometimes religion makes no sense, at least to me who always happens to see things in bit of a negative light. I simply can not help myself. :angel:

Gotta agree with Andina, since I'm an atheíst too. I don't believe in reincarnation cause I don't believe that souls exist. But if they did, would they have only one use? Or, like Plato ,or whatever you call this great philosopher, said ppl do reincarnate so that they have the chance to purify the soul and deny the body's desires. But this is only one theory, there are others like if your ear is completely joined with the skin your soul is knew, if its, well, 'normal', then its a used or an old soul! :P

Regarding religion, reincarnation is only taught in Buddhism and Hindu (not sure about Hindu, don't quote me on that one), and is certainly not considered in the main Western theocracies.

Andina, religion makes a lot of sense in the right context. Arguing from an athiest perspective, it was necessary in ancient times to rationalise the world, and thus was the product of rational thought. As we learn more of the physical properties of our world, the pattern of religion becomes less and less rational, however it is still a process of rational and not irrational thought. Thus it does make sense for people to believe in a diety. The difference is, that now it is also rational to disbelieve in any diety, whereas once it was not. More importantly religion supplies the hope and faith many need to lead their lives, and who knows, a god or gods may still exist.

As for reincarnation, it's an interesting subject. Let's think about it. Supposedly we've all, or most of us, lived before, as some other person. (this is not true in Buddhism, but i'm not including that here) Now look at the increase in population over the last 2000 years. The simple truth is that the majority of people in the world today MUST be new souls, or at the very least reincarnations of people that have only died recently. So when someone believing in reincarnation tells you they may be the new Julius Ceasar, the chances are they're actually just some schmo from the 19th century.

Ah, here comes Raist, our little Descartes. :D

After reading what you wrote about some of those religions I have to admit that I am slightly interested in finding more about them. Not that I'm becoming into faith or anything, but all the myths and stories in them seem more than fascinating, especially as many of them are so closely related to us humans and our history.

Well to some it might, but from my skeptic point of view it makes little sense. Perhaps I have no patience, or I am no good at reading between the lines, but the bible for example is full of loose conceptions and god (no pun intended) knows what. And the fact that some people live by that fantasy book and let it dictate their lives just baffles me. Do they really need to have a book like that to make all the important decisions for them, how can they follow of a book like the bible..I simply can not comprehend that. I have no idea what would be considered to be the right context, but to me religion will never make sense. Bit close minded in this case perhaps, but that can not be helped in my case. :angel:

Ah, interesting to read, yes indeed. You have a way with words, my dear. ^_^ But what I think about what you just said, I am not sure..

I need some tea. :P

From a personal perpestive I'd have to say that although I often doubt religon on a regular basis, I've never even felt to consider that God doesn't exsist, (or not believe in souls-wow!) and have had a relationship with him on occasions that have helped me. God and religion I for some reason, keep, the two apart. I'm more spiritual than religious.

As for the bible, following it can't seem that alien to you-come on.
Religiously people follow the bible as socially people must follow the book of law.

I'd also have to say that religion is very important in that it encourages positive behaviour, gives hope and is embedded in a lot of cultures, so much so that without it the foundation of some cultures would probably crumble.

Of course the simple truth of the matter is, the bible was written by man, it is also vague which makes it easy to intepret to ones own needs and justify ones actions, it is also a way of controlling people-cos we all know how much man likes power and what not. The fact of the matter is, it is in mans hands, and anything that is in the hands of man....well you get my point I'm sure.

It's way, way to difficult to judge religion as a whole I feel, I barely know much about my own religion let alone everything eles that just happens to tie in with the historic's and even sciences of humanity. It's simply too vast and overwhelming and conflicting. And there must be truth in it-I feel anyway.

Reincarnation, well, not so sure. I know they have regression sessions, some kind of hypnosis that gets you to see what you were before, though I wouldn't trust hynosis as far as I could throw it.

Religion isn't important to me, but I like to think that there is something of an afterlife. I also would like to believe in reincarnation and past lives. For example, when you have a strong bond with someone, if you're the type of person who believes in such things, it's nice to think that there's an explanation for it such as it being because you knew each other and were close in another life. If it helps two people feel closer to each other, then it can only be a good thing. I'm not sure whether I really believe in it, but as I said, it's a nice idea. Of course, if it does happen, then I'd love to be able to choose what I'd come back as. I'd choose a house cat. Those little-uns have the best lives ever. ;)

Reincarnation? Nah. 'tisn't a Christian concept.

o_O

Why? What have you against religion?

awww shucks :blush:

That's definately the best place to start. Many athiests simply don't know of the scripture that they disbelieve in, nor the spiritual element that goes with it. I'm not saying this is you at all, but more knowledge in all religions certainly can't help your cause. I'm no expect on any of them, Seeker is far more knowledgeable than me, but i've come along way from a year ago. And besides, if you read up on them and still don't believe, they're still a damn good read. :D

Have you read the Bible? Old or New? Or the Koran? (i know that's not spelt correctly but i can never remember it) Not to sound condescending at all, but it actually makes a lot more sense than you immediately think. But even then the bible and it's counterparts can be heavy going. If you want to read some good arguments on Christianity, or religion in general, there's plenty out there. I'm reading Mere Christianity by C.S Lewis at the moment, and it can certainly change your perspective on religion entirely.

But each ot their own Andina
:D

Yes I have, Bible that is...but to be honest, that was eons ago in school when they forced us to read that darn book! So perhaps I really should give it another go and see how everything looks now that I'm tad bit older..

And what goes for the Koran, I have always found that book interesting. I've never had the chance to read it fully, but I wouldn't mind giving it a try. I need to see if they have it in the library here, which I doubt.

Most of my experiences with religion come from my childhood, and what contacts I've had with religion as an young adult are just religious people who dislike me for various reasons. So hate me not for being such a skeptic towards religion and religious people as I've never recieved any love from that direction, simply boredom and unjustified hatred. :angel:

I sure as hell don't blame you for that. I've had my fair share of jerks, though luckily i live in a fairly quiet religous sector. There are Christians and Mormons and everything else around, but they keep to themselves mostly so i've never had this problem.

But take another look at the bible and DEFINATELY read the Koran and any other religous doctrines you can find, it gives you a better understanding of religion in general. But most importantly, go with how you feel, your instincts are the best thing to drive you. Not your desires, but your instincts, people get those two tangled far too often. :)


Oh and here's a site you might be interested in, it's incredibly extensive and sensitive of all faiths and non-faiths http://www.religioustolerance.org/

Religioustolerance.org is good. But really, you shouldn't take it as the ultimate authority - or perhaps, even a particularly reliable source - for religious information...at least for Christianity. From my experience, and I think this applies for what it did with Islam too, it favours the liberal sides of the religions. I don't know for Islam, but liberal Christianity is not exactly within the earth's radius of general Christian opinion.

Well, seeing as I'm Catholic, I don't believe in reincarnation, but the idea is interesting. Another life after your first one? It's an interesting thought, but I'm not really for it.

Religion is so confusing at times. There are practically wars about it, religions defying the idea of peace. And as science grows, faith begins to drip away. Miracles are explained, and new miracles are showed in the strange religion (metaphorically speaking) of science.


Raist, I've never read the Koran, but it seems interesting. I'm curious to other religions. ^_^

W~ell, it could be true, but then again, anything could be true. :lol: I'd have to agree that the idea of reincarnation is interesting, though. If it's true, and if it's possible, I'd like to see what I was in a 'past life,' or if I'd remember posting in this forum if I get reincarnated as someone else in the future. (if the world would live that long?)

For me, I'm buddist and I do beleive in reincarnation. One, it goes along with my religion and two, I think that no one every truly dies. I just think that they will come back into someone/something else. I have been told that I was a knight in my past life. I'm still wondering why.

Well, I've had people of all religion tell me my "religious veiws" are wrong. If you saw what I wrote in the Gays and Lesbians topic, you would know what I mean. I was first introduced to the concept of reincarnation by my Pagan girlfriend and her family, and a few of my other friends. Also Wiccan friends. I think reincarnation is what happens to your soul when you die. It's a very Pagan veiw. I think you go to this place until you are reincarnated into a new body. That part of what I believe is taken totally from my girl's Pagan religion. That's all there is to it.

However, I also believe in ghosts. If your spirit doesn't go to this place, it stays in the spirit realm.

Anyway, that's just my belief. :ermm:

Let me just start off by saying I'm not necessarily religious or anything, I just accept all beliefs. Now, Reincarnation, I actually believe its a choice. This is my belief... Reincarnation can be a good or bad thing. I believe that the souls that are directly reincarnated are being sent to hell in a way. They have no choice in what they want to do and get sent right back to life after dieing because of what they did in their previous life. The other people get sent to what I like to call "the other side" which is basically like heaven and get to choose if they want to be reincarnated or if they want to stay in heaven.
Thats my... basic view on it. I have many more theories, too many to list :D

I think 'reincarnation' is a valid religious belief and should be allowed to coexist with all other beliefs. Now, I don't exactly believe in it myself, but I think that it--like all other faith-based theorizations--could possibly exist. It's impossible to prove, per the definition of "faith".

The problem with reincarnation is that it forces you to accept several unconvincing premises.

Fristly, if reincarnation is true then there is some element of our makeup that is somehow transferred from life to life, and not lost with the death of our body. It's clearly not physical (or else it would cease to exist along with life stopping in our bodies) and so must be some kind of 'mental' quality, such as a soul or something similar.

However, this requires a very complicated explanation. How is the mental related to the physical? How does a 'soul' come to rest in our bodies, how does it cause our behaviour in the world? If it is a cause of events then it also seems a basic scientific premiss comes under fire, that of causal closure.

Science works on the basis that there are physical causes and effects. If we introduce the mental somehow causing things to happen in the physical world then we have an entirely unexplained phenomenon. How do we account for it? What is the mental and how does it cause anything in particular?

I don't mean to suggest it's not possible, but reincarnation rests on very shaky ground, namely, the idea of a soul at all.